Andy Pilley piece on BBC Sport

straightatthewall said:
It's a national league. That's the whole point of having a pyramid. You have to grow your infrastructure to cope with the scale.
Click to expand...
The point he made was about midweek long haul trips and specifically Gillingham.
Our national game traditionally involves travelling fans so he makes a good point,and the slower train stops in Catford too.
 
straightatthewall said:
It's a national league. That's the whole point of having a pyramid. You have to grow your infrastructure to cope with the scale.
Click to expand...
Agree. A regionalised league would be a backward step for me. But as Plumbs highlights I'm sure there's room for improvement on the midweek games.
 
What a load of Rollocks did they actually interview him or just take it from the videos he let out last week.
Same old all about him and his non league tin pot outfit.
Level playing field behave he bends the rules every season with the millions him and his companies throw him.
Why reguaonlise the game it's 2020 not 1960 you can get about pretty easy fair enough for cup games but a big no for me in the league's
 
Plumbs said:
The point he made was about midweek long haul trips and specifically Gillingham.
Our national game traditionally involves travelling fans so he makes a good point,and the slower train stops in Catford too.
Click to expand...
Deliberate policy by the EFL to make long haul trips midweek. They could easily do something about it but do it on purpose.

The Football League is amongst the most popular in the world (apart from in Fleetwood) because it's a national League and not regionalised. That would reduce its relevance.
 
20togo said:
Agree. A regionalised league would be a backward step for me. But as Plumbs highlights I'm sure there's room for improvement on the midweek games.
Click to expand...
But there are two sides of the argument Gillingham would never bring that many on a Saturday never mind a Tuesday.
Who would you rather have a local side/big away following selling out ie Sunderland or less than half that midweek where they come and go.

I look at the bigger picture and having a full away end on Saturdays is great for the town and all its businesses.
 
Wizaard said:
Deliberate policy by the EFL to make long haul trips midweek. They could easily do something about it but do it on purpose.

The Football League is amongst the most popular in the world (apart from in Fleetwood) because it's a national League and not regionalised. That would reduce its relevance.
Click to expand...
Wiz - reduce relevance in what way? Not being funny I just don't understand.

I can only see positives. Bigger away crowds. Bigger home crowds as well. Less cost on fans. More opportunities to do all games, against a crappy rail system we have. No costs for overnight stays. Better atmosphere at games. More relevant games, Fleetwood last season was a dead rubber for both sides but the place was jumping - would that have been the same against say MK Dons? Don't forget Fleetwood are irrelevant and not a Derby game 🙄

Again, it won't happen because of 'tradition'.
 
poolseasider said:
But there are two sides of the argument Gillingham would never bring that many on a Saturday never mind a Tuesday.
Who would you rather have a local side/big away following selling out ie Sunderland or less than half that midweek where they come and go.

I look at the bigger picture and having a full away end on Saturdays is great for the town and all its businesses.
Click to expand...

The point is that doing it the way that they do discriminates against people who actually want to attend the game in person. Can you think of any other industry that relies in part on audience participation that deliberately makes it harder for them to be there?

The EPL, EFL and FA are only interested in TV revenue, and everything they do is designed to kow tow to the people who provide it.
 
Wizaard said:
Deliberate policy by the EFL to make long haul trips midweek. They could easily do something about it but do it on purpose.

The Football League is amongst the most popular in the world (apart from in Fleetwood) because it's a national League and not regionalised. That would reduce its relevance.
Click to expand...
If we can move away* from Fleetwood for a while, the issue is specific to the challenges football is facing where costs are of paramount importance. Factor in things like carbon footprint,use of transport infrastructure etc then its a perfectly rational and balanced thing to consider.

*to move back of course at some point and repay the community that gave you a start in life etc
 
basilrobbie said:
The point is that doing it the way that they do discriminates against people who actually want to attend the game in person. Can you think of any other industry that relies in part on audience participation that deliberately makes it harder for them to be there?

The EPL, EFL and FA are only interested in TV revenue, and everything they do is designed to kow tow to the people who provide it.
Click to expand...

The clubs actually voted for this. I remember a Matt Williams column from ages ago where he mentioned BFC wanted to maximise revenue from local Saturday games and the view was that largely the same people who would go to Gillingham on a Saturday would still go on a Tuesday.

EFL can be blamed for a lot, but it is their members who want this arrangement, not the “competition organisers”.
 
basilrobbie said:
Ghost 😀 Talk about putting words in my mouth......

Pilley isn't interested in the integrity of the league or protecting competition. If he was that keen on all that, he wouldn't try to buy his way past it.
Click to expand...
That was quite cheeky of me!

Pilley is a side distraction. He could find a cure for covid-19 and still this board would find fault. I think if someone else said it there may be a different debate.

You are right though, integrity only plays a part when it suits their current agenda.
 
Ghosts of Electricity said:
That was quite cheeky of me!

Pilley is a side distraction. He could find a cure for covid-19 and still this board would find fault. I think if someone else said it there may be a different debate.

You are right though, integrity only plays a part when it suits their current agenda.
Click to expand...
The fact Pilley said it is a distraction and irrelevant. I don't want a regionalised league because it would make us less able to compete if we went up one Division, never mind two. It reduces competitiveness, not increases it because teams are less able to cope when they have to travel.
 
onedavebamber said:
EFL can be blamed for a lot, but it is their members who want this arrangement, not the “competition organisers”.
Click to expand...
Yup a fair point. I dont know if anyone on here went to the EFL fans forums but Sky etc spoke clearly about maximising TV revenues,which is why they wont change the 6 week rule on broadcasting.
Difficult to argue when it comes to standing up to the PL who chuck in so much 'free' money,indeed one PL executive told Accy chief Andy Holt that if he didn't like it then hand his money back.

The tail wagging the dog situation is because the EFL clubs voted for it.
 
Regionalisation of Leagues 1 and 2 would reduce them to a second class competition ... if that's how some folk like their football. Not for me thanks.
 
Remember one of the reasons I get long-distance midweek games in the lower leagues is that it saves an overnight stay ...
 
Wizaard said:
I don't want a regionalised league because it would make us less able to compete if we went up one Division, never mind two. It reduces competitiveness, not increases it because teams are less able to cope when they have to travel.
Click to expand...
Agreed and a good point. The problem is that the existing pyramid at lower league level has been a ticking bomb for a while now,and the damage of televised football has eroded the tradition and values.

The virus has just about put the tin hat on it but there needs to be a change,including a reduction in fixtures and operating costs too.
The EFL a while ago came up with a 'Whole game solution' that everyone turned their noses up at,but that with hindsight was a great initiative.
 
Wizaard said:
The fact Pilley said it is a distraction and irrelevant. I don't want a regionalised league because it would make us less able to compete if we went up one Division, never mind two. It reduces competitiveness, not increases it because teams are less able to cope when they have to travel.
Click to expand...
Cheers wiz, it's nice to have healthy mature debate and I mean that sincerely. Doesn't always happen on here!!

Why would you think it reduces competitiveness? My first thought would be it may increase competitiveness and most games will have an edge to it? Or is it because you think there will be less movement in the Leagues so it would become stagnate?
 
Ghosts of Electricity said:
Cheers wiz, it's nice to have healthy mature debate and I mean that sincerely. Doesn't always happen on here!!

Why would you think it reduces competitiveness? My first thought would be it may increase competitiveness and most games will have an edge to it? Or is it because you think there will be less movement in the Leagues so it would become stagnate?
Click to expand...
It would be less interesting in my mind. Think of the Scottish Prem, playing the same teams over and over. No more trips to Peterborough 😢
 
The whole regional stuff is Small Town Club mentality for me. Obviously the fixtures should take travelling fans into account, but if your revenue streams aren't able to cope with proper football, then get yourself back down to the baby leagues IMHO.
 
Mid week trips to Pompey, Ipswich, Southend etc especially in winter times are ludicrous and anyone who came up with such an idea nowadays would be assigned to the asylum.
Under no circumstances could anyone suggest that the same home support turns out never mind travelling support. It’s ok for those who are retired, self employed etc that can take additional time off work to travel horrible distances for a mid week game, doff my cap to you Uber fans.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
The whole regional stuff is Small Town Club mentality for me. Obviously the fixtures should take travelling fans into account, but if your revenue streams aren't able to cope with proper football, then get yourself back down to the baby leagues IMHO.
Click to expand...
BFC x 3, I was also thinking about the convenience and cost to fans. As they are what it's all about allegedly.

But if the majority of fans want it as it is, then that will do for me.
 
What's the argument for making it regionalised? Makes perfect sense for non-league, players not full-time, and financial reasons etc.

If the argument's financial which I suspect it is especially for the likes of Fleetwood with the size of their fan base being out of kilter with their league position then it's a naff suggestion. I'm not knocking Fleetwood by the way but dragging the professional leagues down to the lowest common denominator isn't the right answer for me. Reorganising the finances across the pyramid is the solution and suggestions like regionalisation is just waving an ever bigger white flag to the 'Premier' league. (quotes are deliberate)
 
electric_eel said:
What's the argument for making it regionalised? Makes perfect sense for non-league, players not full-time, and financial reasons etc.

If the argument's financial which I suspect it is especially for the likes of Fleetwood with the size of their fan base being out of kilter with their league position then it's a naff suggestion. I'm not knocking Fleetwood by the way but dragging the professional leagues down to the lowest common denominator isn't the right answer for me. Reorganising the finances across the pyramid is the solution and suggestions like regionalisation is just waving an ever bigger white flag to the 'Premier' league. (quotes are deliberate)
Click to expand...
Cheers eel, I get that.
 
Ghosts of Electricity said:
Cheers wiz, it's nice to have healthy mature debate and I mean that sincerely. Doesn't always happen on here!!

Why would you think it reduces competitiveness? My first thought would be it may increase competitiveness and most games will have an edge to it? Or is it because you think there will be less movement in the Leagues so it would become stagnate?
Click to expand...
Teams not used to travelling to games will not compete when they turn up at the other end of the country because of them not being conditioned to it. Travelling is a strain. That's why teams go to World Cups in advance to acclimatise. This is the same on a smaller scale.

Plus regionalised football in the North will receive far less coverage than the South because that's where the majority of the broadcasters are based. It reduces the status of the competition.
 
Wizaard said:
Teams not used to travelling to games will not compete when they turn up at the other end of the country because of them not being conditioned to it. Travelling is a strain. That's why teams go to World Cups in advance to acclimatise. This is the same on a smaller scale.

Plus regionalised football in the North will receive far less coverage than the South because that's where the majority of the broadcasters are based. It reduces the status of the competition.
Click to expand...
Is this about teams or supporters? Fans are looking at a half day minimum off work plus overnight accommodation and associated costs just to get 90 mins of football. That’s a hellava amount of disposable cash to any family. Regionalising leagues have more pluses than what some are giving credit for, or they are just being selfish and blinded cause it’s in media by Pilley/FTFC.
Seems to me a lot on here are now noticing that they are a threat.
 
Ghosts of Electricity said:
BFC x 3, I was also thinking about the convenience and cost to fans. As they are what it's all about allegedly.

But if the majority of fans want it as it is, then that will do for me.
Click to expand...
TBH, I think that taking numbers over a greater distance gives the fans that travel a sense of pride and I think that is also felt through the wider fanbase too. Surely following your Team near and far is all part of the football experience...It's what 'proper' football instead of non-league football is all about.

Surely the answer here is not to change the football system and league to meet the requirements of Clubs, but rather for the owners of Clubs to manage their Clubs appropriately, based upon their relative revenue streams? Pilleys proposals seem a bit arse about tit for me.... He sort of wants hsi cake and eat it...Ultimately Fleetwood are a tiny Club with a Tiny fanbase...The reality is that THEY are the problem, not the League...They don't have sufficient revenue streams to compete without the need for input from a benefacor....Same with AFC Fylde, based on Haythorthwaites recent video.

So now the League and the rest of us should change the rules and the face of the game to essentially accomodate Clubs who have been spending way above their means and therefore find themselves unable to continue or survive on the same basis. Tough shit!! You've had the good times, you've spent your bucks having your shot at the big time and ultimately you can't carry on....Whether that's Fleetwood, Sunderland, Accrington or Manchester United, it really doesn't matter...If you've blown it and there's nobody to rescue you, then you'll have to do your time back in the lower leagues and rebuild your club....Someone else will be there to take your place.
 
How would promotion from an EFL north and south league to the championship work, ?

Would it be 1 club each from the EFL north and south goes up to the Championship automatically, but then what happens to the play offs ?
 
So much hatred BFCx3 towards local clubs and platitudes to the Uber fans who can make those horrendous mid week trips. Look at me I was at Barnet all over it.
Normal guys n families can’t do these Costa Fortune trips but I’m allrightjack so fuck you attitude. Time to factor in sense ability when computer does its fixture lists or regionalise.
 
Pool4eva said:
How would promotion from an EFL north and south league to the championship work, ?

Would it be 1 club each from the EFL north and south goes up to the Championship automatically, but then what happens to the play offs ?
Click to expand...
Check out North n South lower leagues along with proven examples abroad.
 
Kettlebelly said:
Seems to me a lot on here are now noticing that they are a threat.
Click to expand...

While they are losing £6m a year they are only a threat to themselves.

He has bought his way up the pyramid, rather than winning his way up. The club's success is based upon the size of his wallet, rather than footballing excellence. He's reached the limit of his wealth and has no safety net to fall back on in terms of popular support. The town has never really supported the local club to any meaningful extent, despite what he has gifted to them. And that is because they gravitate towards other local clubs with tradition and a history.

As such, the club is an artificial construct, in much the same way that Colne Dynamoes and Rushden & Diamonds were. No self-respecting League would ever build its structure and its policies around them.
 
Kettlebelly said:
So much hatred BFCx3 towards local clubs and platitudes to the Uber fans who can make those horrendous mid week trips. Look at me I was at Barnet all over it.
Normal guys n families can’t do these Costa Fortune trips but I’m allrightjack so fuck you attitude. Time to factor in sense ability when computer does its fixture lists or regionalise.
Click to expand...
There's no hatred at all, I'm simply offering my perspective....There are plenty of local Provincial Clubs who would welcome the support of fans who prefer that kind of league format. There are also plenty of Provincial Leagues to accomodate Clubs who feel they cannot cope with the prssures of Professional Football.
 
Why is it we're proposing returning to the 1930s or whenever it was in terms of regionalised leagues but not proposing returning to a more equitable distribution of resources which would only take us back to pre 1992?
 
basilrobbie said:
The club's success is based upon the size of his wallet, rather than footballing excellence.
Click to expand...

Sorry to interrupt you and your pals weekly game of Fleetwood bashing but pray do tell us of this mystical club borne out of nothing but footballing excellence?

It doesn't exist. The most successful clubs simply have benefactors with the massive wallets. The bigger the wallet, the more footballing excellence. No club in the modern game succeeds from having big crowds.

Carry on.
 
td53 said:
Why is it we're proposing returning to the 1930s or whenever it was in terms of regionalised leagues but not proposing returning to a more equitable distribution of resources which would only take us back to pre 1992?
Click to expand...
Td - agree with that. Although the chance of more equitable distribution of resources is absolutely zero.

Think the only way that could happen is if the euro super league took off and we said goodbye to united, Liverpool, City, spurs etc.... Again I don't think it would happen.
 
I'd say the long term success of Football Clubs is far more likely to be directly proportionate to the number of supporters than individual benefactors. Of course, it is likely that a wealthy individual is much more likely to invest in a Club with revenue generating potential than one without any.
 
Kettlebelly said:
Is this about teams or supporters? Fans are looking at a half day minimum off work plus overnight accommodation and associated costs just to get 90 mins of football. That’s a hellava amount of disposable cash to any family. Regionalising leagues have more pluses than what some are giving credit for, or they are just being selfish and blinded cause it’s in media by Pilley/FTFC.
Seems to me a lot on here are now noticing that they are a threat.
Click to expand...
Nothing to do with Pilley and everything to do with the marginalization of leagues through regionalisation. Incomes out with gate money will drop, not increase through regionslisation.
 
Pool4eva said:
How would promotion from an EFL north and south league to the championship work, ?

Would it be 1 club each from the EFL north and south goes up to the Championship automatically, but then what happens to the play offs ?
Click to expand...
Good point Pool4eva.
Would we then just have North and South Lge 1 or are non league teams to be invited or do you have to split the National league up also and make that North and South for promotion upwards.
I could see the quality, gate attendances money in the game etc going down not up with this idea.
 
Clubs are struggling financially and will continue to do so. I've been an advocate for years to regionalise Div 2 and the National League. Can Torquay afford an overnight stop in Hartlepool or Barrow? Surely more local matches will mean better crowds, more away fans, better atmospheres etc. Clubs will also reduce travelling expenses accordingly too so a no brainer for me if it means clubs are to survive.
 
Macseasider said:
Sorry to interrupt you and your pals weekly game of Fleetwood bashing but pray do tell us of this mystical club borne out of nothing but footballing excellence?

It doesn't exist. The most successful clubs simply have benefactors with the massive wallets. The bigger the wallet, the more footballing excellence. No club in the modern game succeeds from having big crowds.

Carry on.
Click to expand...
They do outside the Premier league the bigger the gates the more you can spend on wages DH was only saying that the other day.
 
poolseasider said:
Good point Pool4eva.
Would we then just have North and South Lge 1 or are non league teams to be invited or do you have to split the National league up also and make that North and South for promotion upwards.
I could see the quality, gate attendances money in the game etc going down not up with this idea.
Click to expand...
PS - I think the quality as you say is the main risk. Just been looking at the tables and we would have teams like morecambe, Mansfield, Oldham in our league.

Therefore would they be whipping boys or would their presence see the quality overall dip? Or would they elevate and become more competitive.

Good debate though.
 
Kettlebelly said:
Check out North n South lower leagues along with proven examples abroad.
Click to expand...
In the Vanrama league 2 teams from both North/south go up and 4 comes down from the National league not sure the championship clubs would vote for that,?
Lets say the 3 of the teams that are relegated from the Championship are all northern based clubs likes Barnsley,Hull or god forbid BFC, does that mean 1 of the relegated northern teams will be relegated to the EFL South ?
 
Pool4eva said:
In the Vanrama league 2 teams from both North/south go up and 4 comes down from the National league not sure the championship clubs would vote for that,?
Lets say the 3 of the teams that are relegated from the Championship are all northern based clubs likes Barnsley,Hull or god forbid BFC, does that mean 1 of the relegated northern teams will be relegated to the EFL South ?
Click to expand...
Yes. Remember playing Hereford away in the LDV in a group game because of the preponderence of Southern based teams.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top