Appleton on Maxwell & Grimshaw

[TangerinePeel]

I have found the argument a bit over the top, people stating that Grimshaw is miles ahead of Maxwell and it's ridiculous Maxwell hasn't been dropped is a huge inflation of his abilities. I think Maxwell is being scapegoated by the fanbase to be honest, the entire team hasn't been playing well during these 4 consecutive defeats.

I actually don't think there is much between them, Maxwell has better leadership and the ability to organise the defence and I reckon that is why Appleton brought him in when we were a shambles at the back. There were a couple of games where Grimshaw was doing suicide passes and he could of maybe done better with some goals (slightly harsh analysis but it could be said). Maxwell could have also probably done better for some of the goals in recent weeks as well, so I get the feeling of injustice towards Grimshaw in the sense that, if he was worth dropping then, then Maxwell should be dropped now.

Their actual goalkeeping abilities (distribution, shot stopping and commanding their box) are pretty similar with one pipping the other on some of 'em. I'd say Maxwell has better distribution, they're fairly even at shot stopping and Grimshaw is better coming off his line (Maxwell's weak point).

What tips the argument for me is Grimshaw's age and pedigree, we've got him from City and he's still a young lad who has the potential to improve massively and become a great keeper - either he ends up being a great keeper for us or he improves beyond our ability to keep him and we sell him for a decent fee. Maxwell is never going to get any better than he is, so when there isn't much between them I'd go for Grimshaw on that basis. I don't for one second believe that Grimshaw will come in though and solve all our problems, and if he'd been the keeper over the last 4 games the results probably would have remained the same.

 

[Gary]

This thread is hilarious. To say Grimshaw was “appalling” before he got bizarrely dropped is one of the funniest things I’ve ever read.

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

This thread is hilarious. To say Grimshaw was “appalling” before he got bizarrely dropped is one of the funniest things I’ve ever read.

Have you actually watched any of our games Gary?

The only person who didn’t think Grimshaw needed to be dropped was his dad

 

[Adams Kebab]

I’ve been consistent all the way JJ… I don’t rate Grimshaw (based on what I’ve seen) and prefer Maxwell out of our available options.

I preferred Maxwell when he was playing, when he was injured, when he returned temporarily, in the early part of this season and since he has returned.

I don’t see why he is being singled out for what have been poor team performances with understrength sides.

Just to ask, you have said consistently you think Critchley was and is a better coach man manager wise and tactically than Appleton & he selected Grimshaw ahead of Maxwell throughout the season.

He didn’t at the start of the season, when we struggled or the game at home to Luton when he did actually bring him back in over Grimshaw (and we struggled) but then he went back to Grimshaw after that that saw him win a few MOM’s particularly at home that got us 3 points.

Of course, Maxwell came back in towards the end of the season after Grimshaw’s injury and would you believe we struggled again.

There’s a recurring theme

 

[fcblackpool]

I have found the argument a bit over the top, people stating that Grimshaw is miles ahead of Maxwell and it's ridiculous Maxwell hasn't been dropped is a huge inflation of his abilities. I think Maxwell is being scapegoated by the fanbase to be honest, the entire team hasn't been playing well during these 4 consecutive defeats.

I actually don't think there is much between them, Maxwell has better leadership and the ability to organise the defence and I reckon that is why Appleton brought him in when we were a shambles at the back. There were a couple of games where Grimshaw was doing suicide passes and he could of maybe done better with some goals (slightly harsh analysis but it could be said). Maxwell could have also probably done better for some of the goals in recent weeks as well, so I get the feeling of injustice towards Grimshaw in the sense that, if he was worth dropping then, then Maxwell should be dropped now.

Their actual goalkeeping abilities (distribution, shot stopping and commanding their box) are pretty similar with one pipping the other on some of 'em. I'd say Maxwell has better distribution, they're fairly even at shot stopping and Grimshaw is better coming off his line (Maxwell's weak point).

What tips the argument for me is Grimshaw's age and pedigree, we've got him from City and he's still a young lad who has the potential to improve massively and become a great keeper - either he ends up being a great keeper for us or he improves beyond our ability to keep him and we sell him for a decent fee. Maxwell is never going to get any better than he is, so when there isn't much between them I'd go for Grimshaw on that basis. I don't for one second believe that Grimshaw will come in though and solve all our problems, and if he'd been the keeper over the last 4 games the results probably would have remained the same.

What a decent thought out post

I'd say if Grimmy needed a rest and probably he did, the Maxwell needs a rest now.

People forget that before DG made his debut here he'd never played a league game, I might be wrong but I don't think he played much for Michelin whilst on loan. And the one thing you do with learning players is to cut them slack with mistakes and if you have confidence in their longer term development, then you play them when you can.

 

[Gary]

Have you actually watched any of our games Gary?

The only person who didn’t think Grimshaw needed to be dropped was his dad

Yes, about 5. 3 before he was dropped and 2 since. In the Blackburn game Grimshaw was the only reason it wasn’t a cricket score.

It’s not like the goals have dried up since Maxwell came into the side, almost as if the defence is the issue and the manager took the easy option dropping the keeper just like they always do.

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

Just to ask, you have said consistently you think Critchley was and is a better coach man manager wise and tactically than Appleton & he selected Grimshaw ahead of Maxwell throughout the season.

He didn’t at the start of the season, when we struggled or the game at home to Luton when he did actually bring him back in over Grimshaw (and we struggled) but then he went back to Grimshaw after that that saw him win a few MOM’s particularly at home that got us 3 points.

Of course, Maxwell came back in towards the end of the season after Grimshaw’s injury and would you believe we struggled again.

There’s a recurring theme

There wasn’t really the same kind of pressure on Grimshaw in the Critchley system and we also had Keogh to marshall the defence. In this new system Grimshaw has looked totally assured and was adding to the shaky defence.

We’ve not struggled recently because of Maxwell … It’s totally ridiculous to suggest that is the case.

Vs Boro we had a complete hotch pitch of a Team, never mind the defence, which was a complete joke.

Vs Wigan we were down to Ten Men for the bulk of the game.

 

[20togo]

This thread is hilarious. To say Grimshaw was “appalling” before he got bizarrely dropped is one of the funniest things I’ve ever read.

but you openly stated here not long back that you hadn't seen the goals from the Rotherham game! And there was the Millwall game immediately before that where Grimshaw conceded a really soft goal. Not so "bizarre" that he was dropped. And seriously, you've only seen five of our games? Does that really suggest you've seen enough of both keepers to comment in the way you have. I'd say that was hilarious.

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

Yes, about 5. 3 before he was dropped and 2 since. In the Blackburn game Grimshaw was the only reason it wasn’t a cricket score.

It’s not like the goals have dried up since Maxwell came into the side, almost as if the defence is the issue and the manager took the easy option dropping the keeper just like they always do.

As I’ve said above, Grimshaw was regularly putting the defence under pressure with bad distribution and hospital passes. He passed directly to the opposition on more than one occasion and was forced to make a couple of saves just to avoid him giving those goals away… He also failed to set up a wall properly, which resulted in us conceding unnecessarily from a free kick… and then there was the Jordan Gabriel interview on the preview show, which (in not so many words) highlighted what most of us already knew… that Grimshaw is too mouselike when in nets and doesn’t organise his defence properly…

 

[Adams Kebab]

There wasn’t really the same kind of pressure on Grimshaw in the Critchley system and we also had Keogh to marshall the defence. In this new system Grimshaw has looked totally assured and was adding to the shaky defence.

We’ve not struggled recently because of Maxwell … It’s totally ridiculous to suggest that is the case.

Vs Boro we had a complete hotch pitch of a Team, never mind the defence, which was a complete joke.

Vs Wigan we were down to Ten Men for the bulk of the game.

I do agree, Grimshaw was ropey with the ball at his feet this season passing it into midfield when he had Kenny Dougall dallying on the ball unable to turn out quickly… would like to see him with Patino being able to pivot in every direction with the ball when he gave it him.

Maxwell might be slightly more assured at clearing his lines but generally goes longer (or out of play) but I much prefer my goalkeeper to save the ball and Grimshaw is a much better shot stopper.

Maxwell has made a few decent saves (Sunderland away) but aside from that he’s just not as good, not as agile, not as good spring. The stats back it up (goals prevented) clean sheets back it up and so do my eyes.

I keep hearing that Maxwell is a far better talker but then I heard apparently Grimshaw told the manager to F off and called him a prick Also Maxwell being such a better talker isn’t going that well is it, especially the embarrassment of letting in a corner that bounced.

It’s all about opinions but I cannot see for the life of me that Chris Maxwell is a better all round goalie than Grimshaw.

Over the last two seasons we have had better results when Grimshaw is in goal. Again, this is factual. Says it all for me.

 

[mad-link]

What do you expect him to say, he can hardly chuck Maxwell under the bus can he?

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

I do agree, Grimshaw was ropey with the ball at his feet this season passing it into midfield when he had Kenny Dougall dallying on the ball unable to turn out quickly… would like to see him with Patino being able to pivot in every direction with the ball when he gave it him.

Maxwell might be slightly more assured at clearing his lines but generally goes longer (or out of play) but I much prefer my goalkeeper to save the ball and Grimshaw is a much better shot stopper.

Maxwell has made a few decent saves (Sunderland away) but aside from that he’s just not as good, not as agile, not as good spring. The stats back it up (goals prevented) clean sheets back it up and so do my eyes.

I keep hearing that Maxwell is a far better talker but then I heard apparently Grimshaw told the manager to F off and called him a prick Also Maxwell being such a better talker isn’t going that well is it, especially the embarrassment of letting in a corner that bounced.

It’s all about opinions but I cannot see for the life of me that Chris Maxwell is a better all round goalie than Grimshaw.

Over the last two seasons we have had better results when Grimshaw is in goal. Again, this is factual. Says it all for me.

As I’ve said, I don’t think there’s much in the two of them, which is statistically the case (I prefer Maxwell and especially in this system).

I just think that people who seem to be looking to Grimshaw as some kind of solution to our defensive woes are completely deluded.

 

[Adams Kebab]

As I’ve said, I don’t think there’s much in the two of them, which is statistically the case (I prefer Maxwell and especially in this system).

I just think that people who seem to be looking to Grimshaw as some kind of solution to our defensive woes are completely deluded.

I think it’s a few things defensively not just the keeper. There’s a transition to a different philosophy, the back 4 last year had two central midfielders who didn’t get out the centre circle much and had much better protection, could be Keogh going but could explain Marv being all over the gaff.

There was much more emphasis tactically on defensive duties last season I think too.

But keeper wise, I just think you pick your best players in every position, we’ve tried to mix it up with Maxwell but it’s time to revert back to the guy who he originally thought was his number 1 at the start of the season. We’ve more chance of the keeper making a save for us when Grimshaw is in net.

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

I think it’s a few things defensively not just the keeper. There’s a transition to a different philosophy, the back 4 last year had two central midfielders who didn’t get out the centre circle much and had much better protection, could be Keogh going but could explain Marv being all over the gaff.

There was much more emphasis tactically on defensive duties last season I think too.

But keeper wise, I just think you pick your best players in every position, we’ve tried to mix it up with Maxwell but it’s time to revert back to the guy who he originally thought was his number 1 at the start of the season. We’ve more chance of the keeper making a save for us when Grimshaw is in net.

We’re not trying to “Mix it Up” with Maxwell though… He’s actually contributed to our best performances of this season and (at least when we haven’t fielded a complete makeshift side / defence) we’ve generally looked assured at the back since he returned.

In fact the introduction of Maxwell saw a dramatic change and improvement defensively that was roundly acknowledged.

Hopefully Applegoose won’t bow to pressure, because he’s been absolutely 100% correct to stick with Maxwell so far IMHO.

 

[Adams Kebab]

We’re not trying to “Mix it Up” with Maxwell though… He’s actually contributed to our best performances of this season and (at least when we haven’t fielded a complete makeshift side / defence) we’ve generally looked assured at the back since he returned.

In fact the introduction of Maxwell saw a dramatic change and improvement defensively that was roundly acknowledged.

Hopefully Applegoose won’t bow to pressure, because he’s been absolutely 100% correct to stick with Maxwell so far IMHO.

We were.

We changed the keeper, but other players had made far worse mistakes. It was done it appears for organisational purposes, not actually saving the ball, MA loves his xG so I’m sure he’ll have noted where Grimshaw sits on goals prevented compared to Maxwell,

I don’t think he’ll swap the keeper now even if he thinks he should. It’s only what I think but there appears to be his own man that borders on not wanting to lose face.

We’ll see, I just don’t think Maxwell gets in any other Championship starting 11’s. Where I think Grimshaw would be wanted. This isn’t the League 1 promotion season goalie in Maxwell, 2 years on. I think it shows, patchwork defence or not, that’s the makeshift lot he’s meant to be such a great organiser with.

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

We were.

We changed the keeper, but other players had made far worse mistakes. It was done it appears for organisational purposes, not actually saving the ball, MA loves his xG so I’m sure he’ll have noted where Grimshaw sits on goals prevented compared to Maxwell,

I don’t think he’ll swap the keeper now even if he thinks he should. It’s only what I think but there appears to be his own man that borders on not wanting to lose face.

We’ll see, I just don’t think Maxwell gets in any other Championship starting 11’s. Where I think Grimshaw would be wanted. This isn’t the League 1 promotion season goalie in Maxwell, 2 years on. I think it shows, patchwork defence or not, that’s the makeshift lot he’s meant to be such a great organiser with.

It’s alright looking at ‘Goals Saved’ but then you’d have to also take into account the chances you were giving away to the opposition in the first place. Grimshaw is going to need to make more saves, because a) His distribution was putting the defence under more pressure b) We were generally weaker in defence due to the lack of organisation / talking etc..

As I’ve already posted above… The trouble with fans is they tend to only see as far as the end of their noses on stuff like this and TBH throwing in a stat like ‘shots stopped’ in isolation is a classic example… At least two of his ‘Shots Stopped’ resulted from him passing the ball to an opposition striker ffs.

Grimshaw won’t play at this level for anyone else unless he improves dramatically. He’s just not that good and has too much missing from his game…. From s Blackpool perspective sone might argue that he’ll do… personally I think we need to be looking to replace Maxwell with a better all round keeper.

 

[Adams Kebab]

It’s alright looking at ‘Goals Saved’ but then you’d have to also take into account the chances you were giving away to the opposition in the first place. Grimshaw is going to need to make more saves, because a) His distribution was putting the defence under more pressure b) We were generally weaker in defence due to the lack of organisation / talking etc..

As I’ve already posted above… The trouble with fans is they tend to only see as far as the end of their noses on stuff like this and TBH throwing in a stat like ‘shots stopped’ in isolation is a classic example… At least two of his ‘Shots Stopped’ resulted from him passing the ball to an opposition striker ffs.

Grimshaw won’t play at this level for anyone else unless he improves dramatically. He’s just not that good and has too much missing from his game…. From s Blackpool perspective sone might argue that he’ll do… personally I think we need to be looking to replace Maxwell with a better all round keeper.

Could say that about Maxwell not saving that penalty not good for shots stopped that. It’s not all about the stats, far from it, my eyes are the main judge.

Grimshaw was more than good enough last season and excelled early on in the year, Hull, Millwall at home. I don’t see why that still can’t happen & I don’t see Maxwell ever being better than Grimshaw at anything bar for pointing out who’s fault conceding a goal was, from his defence, the ref, the liner… a mirror might help him

We aren’t going to agree are we, we’ll just have to see & we need whoever is in goal to be decent to stay in this league. Here’s hoping.

 

[JJpool]

It’s alright looking at ‘Goals Saved’ but then you’d have to also take into account the chances you were giving away to the opposition in the first place. Grimshaw is going to need to make more saves, because a) His distribution was putting the defence under more pressure b) We were generally weaker in defence due to the lack of organisation / talking etc..

As I’ve already posted above… The trouble with fans is they tend to only see as far as the end of their noses on stuff like this and TBH throwing in a stat like ‘shots stopped’ in isolation is a classic example… At least two of his ‘Shots Stopped’ resulted from him passing the ball to an opposition striker ffs.

Grimshaw won’t play at this level for anyone else unless he improves dramatically. He’s just not that good and has too much missing from his game…. From s Blackpool perspective sone might argue that he’ll do… personally I think we need to be looking to replace Maxwell with a better all round keeper.

Grimshaw is a more agile, better shot stopper, better puncher from crosses, higher level when on it and a better asset for the club to play.

He might not shout as much, but he's doesn't let many easy goals go straight though him.

He would be disappointed not do better with some early season, but some of Maxwells are literally straight through him.

Appleton on GK situation - backs Maxwell

'It's easy to shout a name': Blackpool boss Michael Appleton gives Chris Maxwell his backing as fans call for Dan Grimshaw "Grimshaw’s name was chanted by the 4,000 or so Seasiders that made the trip to Wigan on Saturday for the 2-1 defeat at the DW Stadium. It followed another mixed display...

avftt.co.uk

Compared to Grimmy at Millwall for eg where you'd expect to save it, but at least a shot to the corner area and was on the stretch, disappointing but not straight through him.

Maxwells kicking at times is shocking too and he too passed it straight to the opposition from terrible daisy cutters clearances, he also regularly struggles to clear halfway, feel like werr targeted more from corners now, not just him but the whole defence shaky, but he rarely clears balls.

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

Grimshaw is a more agile, better shot stopper, better puncher from crosses, higher level when on it and a better asset for the club to play.

He might not shout as much, but he's doesn't let many easy goals go straight though him.

He would be disappointed not do better with some early season, but some of Maxwells are literally straight through him.

Appleton on GK situation - backs Maxwell

'It's easy to shout a name': Blackpool boss Michael Appleton gives Chris Maxwell his backing as fans call for Dan Grimshaw "Grimshaw’s name was chanted by the 4,000 or so Seasiders that made the trip to Wigan on Saturday for the 2-1 defeat at the DW Stadium. It followed another mixed display...

avftt.co.uk

Compared to Grimmy at Millwall for eg where you'd expect to save it, but at least a shot to the corner area and was on the stretch, disappointing but not straight through him.

Maxwells kicking at times is shocking too and he too passed it straight to the opposition from terrible daisy cutters clearances, he also regularly struggles to clear halfway, feel like werr targeted more from corners now, not just him but the whole defence shaky, but he rarely clears balls.

The one ‘argument’ that kind of washes for me in favour of Grimshaw is their relative ages (Maxwell nearing the end of his career and Grimmy hopefully with his best years ahead)…

Unfortunately our defence was so lacking any sense of leadership and improved to such an extent following the change from Grimshaw to Maxwell that I wouldn’t even consider changing back until we get an experienced CH.

 

[JJpool]

The one ‘argument’ that kind of washes for me in favour of Grimshaw is their relative ages (Maxwell nearing the end of his career and Grimmy hopefully with his best years ahead)…

Unfortunately our defence was so lacking any sense of leadership and improved to such an extent following the change from Grimshaw to Maxwell that I wouldn’t even consider changing back until we get an experienced CH.

They both lack height but Grimmy can jump better.

But with Moores height he's ideal.

Had a good brief sub appearance, apparently does well whenever called upon in reserve/dev games.

But is never picked, he's got the size so maybe is not highly thought of.

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

They both lack height but Grimmy can jump better.

But with Moores height he's ideal.

Had a good brief sub appearance, apparently does well whenever called upon in reserve/dev games.

But is never picked, he's got the size so maybe is not highly thought of.

I can’t say I’ve seen much evidence of him ‘Jumping Better’ to be honest.

Moore is clearly happy to be a number 3 at Blackpool and his career stats are hardly anything to write home about…. I suspect he’s where he is for good reason …

 

[Hazi]

Blackpool keeper in top five for prevented goals as number one debate continues

Chris Maxwell or Dan Grimshaw? The debate continues

www.lancs.live

 

[Hazi]

Football is all about stats these days, computers do the decision making on whether to sign a player, the stats don't lie Grimshaw is the better keeper. I agreed with Max coming back in initially, add a bit of experience, he did well at first but after he shipped a few goals and especially after the boro game can be no excuse to not bring him back.