Astra Zeneca suspended

Delfino said:
I did read today a suggestion that in Norway (where they had a serious reaction) they have been giving the AZ vaccine to health workers and that they are more likely to be pre-menopausal females and on birth control (which has a clot risk). I know we have vaccined lots under the age of 50 but, if Blackpool Vic is anything to go by, they have been using Pfizer on their health workers, so maybe the UK AZ dosages have majored on the over 50s so far.

Maybe not the scenario above but I wonder if there is a slightly elevated risk in an age/gender/health/medicine group combination that we have not seen in the UK as we have had a different rollout profile. That said, it sounds like the likelihood is still very low and much lower than the risk of the virus, and delaying is likely to lead to more problems than it solves.
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I had mine at the Vic, granted I’m not a health worker but I had the Astra Zeneca and I’m 49, as have several of my work colleagues . Do you think they gave different vaccines to different sets of people on purpose ?
 
Scaramanga said:
I had mine at the Vic, granted I’m not a health worker but I had the Astra Zeneca and I’m 49, as have several of my work colleagues . Do you think they gave different vaccines to different sets of people on purpose ?
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Might be the policy employed on aircraft where the Captain and Co-Pilot (if they do) eat different meals, just in case!

If the AZ turns us that have had it into mutant zombie flesh eaters, then best not every Doctor/Nurse do too!
 
Delfino said:
I did read today a suggestion that in Norway (where they had a serious reaction) they have been giving the AZ vaccine to health workers and that they are more likely to be pre-menopausal females and on birth control (which has a clot risk). I know we have vaccined lots under the age of 50 but, if Blackpool Vic is anything to go by, they have been using Pfizer on their health workers, so maybe the UK AZ dosages have majored on the over 50s so far.

Maybe not the scenario above but I wonder if there is a slightly elevated risk in an age/gender/health/medicine group combination that we have not seen in the UK as we have had a different rollout profile. That said, it sounds like the likelihood is still very low and much lower than the risk of the virus, and delaying is likely to lead to more problems than it solves.
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Now I’m hoping I get Pfizer on Monday as that’s me in the danger bracket you speak of 🥴
 
Lala said:
Now I’m hoping I get Pfizer on Monday as that’s me in the danger bracket you speak of 🥴
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You’ll be fine. If anything, the Pfizer one seems to have fewer side effects.
Heard that some young people especially are getting quite a few symptoms with AZ (nothing too serious though, headaches, temp, flu like symptoms for a day or two). It’s an idea to get some paracetamol handy in case you need it.
 
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Scaramanga said:
I had mine at the Vic, granted I’m not a health worker but I had the Astra Zeneca and I’m 49, as have several of my work colleagues . Do you think they gave different vaccines to different sets of people on purpose ?
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Dr Jim Gardner said the Vic had mostly used Pfizer.
 
www.bbc.com

Is Europe's AstraZeneca jab decision-making flawed? - BBC News

Some nations are suspending use of the vaccine, but move may do more harm than good by costing lives.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com

From article...

"

Has Europe got a problem with the vaccine?​

This is not the first time countries in Europe have exercised caution about the AstraZeneca vaccine.

The precautionary principle was adopted by Germany, France and others when they did not initially recommend use of the vaccine for the over-65s. French President Emmanuel Macron even called it "quasi-ineffective".

The over 65s decision has now been reversed, but the impact is still being felt it seems.

Germany and France have supplies of the vaccine going to waste, with both countries having used fewer than half their supplies of the AstraZeneca jab so far. It has left them far more reliant on the Pfizer vaccine than the UK is.

And this is threatening to have deadly consequences. France, Germany and the other major European nations all have higher rates of infection than the UK, and face the prospect of things getting worse before they get better."
 
I think if you read the instructions in lots of medicines they warn you there is a chance of a reaction. Best read the information leaflet next time you reach for the anadin after a heavy night out. Although at this rate nobody will be going anywhere.
 
tangerine_neil said:
You’ll be fine. If anything, the Pfizer one seems to have fewer side effects.
Heard that some young people especially are getting quite a few symptoms with AZ (nothing too serious though, headaches, temp, flu like symptoms for a day or two). It’s an idea to get some paracetamol handy in case you need it.
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I had AZ on Sunday and confirm I had all of those symptoms yesterday and looks as if I’ve still got them this morning. So yes paracetamol is highly recommended.
 
Scaramanga said:
I had mine at the Vic, granted I’m not a health worker but I had the Astra Zeneca and I’m 49, as have several of my work colleagues . Do you think they gave different vaccines to different sets of people on purpose ?
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My suspicion is that at least in some venues it's going to depend upon the time of day.

Because Pfizer is much harder to handle and store it would make sense to use that up first and keep the AZ stuff in the fridge until the other stuff is all gone, thus in the morning you're more likely to get Pfizer and in the afternoon AZ.

Regarding health workers, it could be that their greater availability makes them suitable for Pfizer and thus they get that, also, possibly, because they were in the second highest priority group they would have been vaxed at a time when Pfizer was relatively more abundant.


Edit:
@Delfino above also makes the point that it's going to depend upon the venue, hospitals are more likely to have the cold chain facilities available to handle the Pfizer vaccine thus medical staff are more likely to get it.
 
The number of EU countries suspending use of the AZ vaccine is now quite extensive. They include Germany, Ireland, France, Italy, Spain, Denmark, Romania, Latvia, Austria, Lithuania, Estonia, the Netherlands, Luxembourg and Bulgaria. This means EU member states are now sitting on a mountain of AstraZeneca vaccines while the bloc’s jabs rollout flounders.

17 million jabs across the EU and the UK had been administered, resulting in about 15 cases of deep vein thrombosis and 22 cases of pulmonary embolism. According to the experts, this is considerably less than would be expected in a non-pandemic sample. In 2019 the EU reported 544,000 deaths from DVTs. The European Medicines Agency said "many thousands of people develop blood clots every year in the EU and the number of thromboembolic events overall in vaccinated people seems not to be higher than that seen in the general population".

Meanwhile, as virus case numbers rise across Europe, Italy goes back into lockdown and France moves forward with its plans to lockdown Paris and move the overflow of coronavirus patients to hospitals in other cities. Health expert Dr Simon Clarke, Professor in cellular Microbiology, said the EU was exposing its citizens to greater risks from the virus while focusing on the supposed risk posed by the AstraZeneca drug. He said they're leaving people exposed to the virus and to the extensive blood clotting that can happen from the virus. When asked about the EU seeming to be desperate to get hold of the vaccine to stop it going out of Europe but not wanting anyone to take it, Professor Clarke responded that one was tempted to conclude that the matter was political rather than medical.

You don't say.


Edit to say that following a sharp drop in stock market values yesterday on announcement of the AZ suspension across the EU, the market has bounced back today as investors see no substance in the EU's actions.
 
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Tangojoe said:
When asked about the EU seeming to be desperate to get hold of the vaccine to stop it going out of Europe but not wanting anyone to take it, Professor Clarke responded that one was tempted to conclude that the matter was political rather than medical.
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That's an interesting point, the EU seems to be more interested in messing up other countries vaccine programmes than getting on with their own.

Personally I think it's a case of hysteria rather than anything planned, the damage done to their own vaccine programme must surely far exceed any effect on others.
 
This all going to backfire on them spectacularly. I think the mentalists need to accept that the third wave sweeping across Europe is laid firmly at the EUs front door. Thousands of deaths and more destruction of several countries economies trashed over an over reaction. Or will it be Boris fault 😬
 
This really is turning into a fiasco by most of the Eurozone....ive listened to expert after expert saying that they cannot understand what is going on with the decisions to pause AZ vaccinations....I can’t believe it’s politics as they know people are dying every day....1 expert I just saw said he thinks it’s super safety guidelines being followed to the letter instead of people seeing the big picture and adapting.....many more lives are going to be lost unless they change there stance.
 
Again, if it's an EU decision, why have over three quarters of EU countries NOT imposed a suspension? If they're all vassal states in thrall to Brussels why are they continuing? Doesn't stack up with the view you've been promulgating for years.

Asking for a friend...
 
Tangojoe said:
The number of EU countries suspending use of the AZ vaccine is now quite extensive. They include Germany, Ireland, France, Italy, Spain, Denmark, Romania, Latvia, Austria, Lithuania, Estonia, the Netherlands, Luxembourg and Bulgaria. This means EU member states are now sitting on a mountain of AstraZeneca vaccines while the bloc’s jabs rollout flounders.

17 million jabs across the EU and the UK had been administered, resulting in about 15 cases of deep vein thrombosis and 22 cases of pulmonary embolism. According to the experts, this is considerably less than would be expected in a non-pandemic sample. In 2019 the EU reported 544,000 deaths from DVTs. The European Medicines Agency said "many thousands of people develop blood clots every year in the EU and the number of thromboembolic events overall in vaccinated people seems not to be higher than that seen in the general population".

Meanwhile, as virus case numbers rise across Europe, Italy goes back into lockdown and France moves forward with its plans to lockdown Paris and move the overflow of coronavirus patients to hospitals in other cities. Health expert Dr Simon Clarke, Professor in cellular Microbiology, said the EU was exposing its citizens to greater risks from the virus while focusing on the supposed risk posed by the AstraZeneca drug. He said they're leaving people exposed to the virus and to the extensive blood clotting that can happen from the virus. When asked about the EU seeming to be desperate to get hold of the vaccine to stop it going out of Europe but not wanting anyone to take it, Professor Clarke responded that one was tempted to conclude that the matter was political rather than medical.

You don't say.


Edit to say that following a sharp drop in stock market values yesterday on announcement of the AZ suspension across the EU, the market has bounced back today as investors see no substance in the EU's actions.
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The bounce is apparently down to US regulators being close to approving the vaccine, and post pandemic drugs.
 
Wizaard said:
Again, if it's an EU decision, why have over three quarters of EU countries NOT imposed a suspension? If they're all vassal states in thrall to Brussels why are they continuing? Doesn't stack up with the view you've been promulgating for years.

Asking for a friend...
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As I stated “Most” EU countries....quiet clear on that and also the experts said each country seems to be getting itself into a tizz and following others.
 
Towerpower99 said:
As I stated “Most” EU countries....quiet clear on that and also the experts said each country seems to be getting itself into a tizz and following others.
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Not at all. 27 countries in the EU. 5 or 6 have put in a suspension. There's a few more that have suspended the use of a batch but are still using other batches.
 
Lala said:
Now I’m hoping I get Pfizer on Monday as that’s me in the danger bracket you speak of 🥴
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Apols @Lala .... my interpretation of the suggestion was that the vaccine was being given in Norway to people who might have a slightly higher blood clot risk (on birth control) and as they were generally healthier individuals so any sudden blood clots were an immediate red flag. I.e. there was a likelier correlation than necessarily being causation.

I think they are right to investigate further but given the damage to the vaccine program I think they should have continued whilst they investigate. More lives are likely to be lost by stopping the rollout.

FWIW I've had the 1st Jan. It was AZ and I'll get the second unless told not to.
 
Wizaard said:
Not at all. 27 countries in the EU. 5 or 6 have put in a suspension. There's a few more that have suspended the use of a batch but are still using other batches.
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Germany, Ireland, France, Italy, Spain, Denmark, Romania, Latvia, Austria, Lithuania, Estonia, the Netherlands, Luxembourg and Bulgaria. And today Sweden. So most of em
 
Tangojoe said:
Germany, Ireland, France, Italy, Spain, Denmark, Romania, Latvia, Austria, Lithuania, Estonia, the Netherlands, Luxembourg and Bulgaria. And today Sweden. So most of em
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Go back through that list, and most of them are continuing to issue the vaccine, just not one batch. Carry on.

Anyway, what about the other half? No one has answered my question as to why the all powerful unelected Brussels cabal haven't made them all stop. Because it flies in the face of the narrative you've pushed for years.
 
Sheep the lot of them. 🐑
AZ need to ram the message home. 🐏

Shockingly bad decision making by those in charge while the public are fleeced.
 
Wizaard said:
Not at all. 27 countries in the EU. 5 or 6 have put in a suspension. There's a few more that have suspended the use of a batch but are still using other batches.
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5 or 6...Not at all...more like 8 plus other countries who are selecting which batches they use....but I knew this would get side tracked from my main point that SOME European countries are making an arse of this and people are dying....now as AVFTT is not my life and I am quite Hungry I’m off to make a nice sandwich and as I have lots of things to do but will no doubt pop up on tonight’s BFC match thread....
 
seasideone said:
The bounce is apparently down to US regulators being close to approving the vaccine, and post pandemic drugs.
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The vaccine is being supplied at cost so none of this should have any significant effect on AZ's share price.

Personally I'd have preferred to see some kind of mark up in a profit sharing deal with AZ, Ox and HMG, since we've spent £1bn+ developing it I don't see why equally rich countries can't pay some of that back, for what would still be the cheapest vaccine on the market.
 
Wizaard said:
Go back through that list, and most of them are continuing to issue the vaccine, just not one batch. Carry on.

Anyway, what about the other half? No one has answered my question as to why the all powerful unelected Brussels cabal haven't made them all stop. Because it flies in the face of the narrative you've pushed for years.
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Surely you don't still need anyone to explain the panic across Europe caused by Macron and Merkel. Has one single drugs regulator in the whole world rejected or questioned the efficacy of the AZ vaccine? If you accept that they have not, then you have to find another reason for the chaos in Europe. You might say that 3000 medics in Italy signed a petition questioning the AZ vaccine, but other than that no medical reason has emerged. So if there is no medical reason there must be something else. Cost? No the AZ vaccine is the cheapest of them all. Once you disregard all the less likely options you're left with the most likely one, or as William of Occam said, the simplest of competing theories should be preferred to the more complex. Since there is no other likely explanation, this must be that the EU leaders have frightened member states into suspending their AZ vaccine. Now why would they do that knowing that the outcome is the inevitable increased deaths of their citizens? You tell me.
 
Wizaard said:
So you explain to me why 22 of the EU countries havent suspended it if it's a political directive.
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Towerpower99 said:
This really is turning into a fiasco by most of the Eurozone....ive listened to expert after expert saying that they cannot understand what is going on with the decisions to pause AZ vaccinations....I can’t believe it’s politics as they know people are dying every day....1 expert I just saw said he thinks it’s super safety guidelines being followed to the letter instead of people seeing the big picture and adapting.....many more lives are going to be lost unless they change there stance.
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Latest Story from the Mail Online, wow what an admission:

'Italy admitted today that its suspension of AstraZeneca jabs was a 'political' move under pressure from other EU governments, amid fury at the 12 EU states who have called a halt to the shots over unproven fears of blood clots.

Nicola Magrini, the head of Italian medicines regulator AIFA, said politicians had come under pressure to call off the jabs after Germany and France made similar moves in what one Conservative MP described as a 'Brexit sulk'.
 
TangerineBayern said:
Latest Story from the Mail Online, wow what an admission:

'Italy admitted today that its suspension of AstraZeneca jabs was a 'political' move under pressure from other EU governments, amid fury at the 12 EU states who have called a halt to the shots over unproven fears of blood clots.

Nicola Magrini, the head of Italian medicines regulator AIFA, said politicians had come under pressure to call off the jabs after Germany and France made similar moves in what one Conservative MP described as a 'Brexit sulk'.
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Think the key words there are an unnamed Conservative MP.
 
Tangojoe said:
Surely you don't still need anyone to explain the panic across Europe caused by Macron and Merkel. Has one single drugs regulator in the whole world rejected or questioned the efficacy of the AZ vaccine? If you accept that they have not, then you have to find another reason for the chaos in Europe. You might say that 3000 medics in Italy signed a petition questioning the AZ vaccine, but other than that no medical reason has emerged. So if there is no medical reason there must be something else. Cost? No the AZ vaccine is the cheapest of them all. Once you disregard all the less likely options you're left with the most likely one, or as William of Occam said, the simplest of competing theories should be preferred to the more complex. Since there is no other likely explanation, this must be that the EU leaders have frightened their member states into suspending their AZ vaccine. Now why would they do that knowing that the outcome is the increased deaths of their citizens? You tell me.
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Why have they failed to frighten at least half then?
 
TangerineBayern said:
Not too interested whether the EU are still sulking over Brexit, these decisions are denying EU citizens their rights to be offered the AZ vaccine which is the only way out of this pandemic.
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Agreed. I'm making a separate point though, that no one has come back on. If it's a political point and the EU is one bloc, why has each country made their own decision, given we were told for years that we had no sovereignty?
 
Wizaard said:
Why have they failed to frighten at least half then?
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Hey, maybe those countries weren't scared of Macron and Merkel.

Or maybe they thought the lives of their citizens was worth more than a half-hearted, half-witted attempt to humiliate the UK

Seeing as there is no medical reason for the suspensions, do you have an alternative theory?
 
Tangojoe said:
Hey, maybe those countries weren't scared of Macron and Merkel.

Or maybe they thought the lives of their citizens was worth more than a half-hearted, half-witted attempt to humiliate the UK

Seeing as there is no medical reason for the suspensions, do you have an alternative theory?
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Each country makes their own choice. Exactly what you've been spouting doesnt happen in the EU.
 
Wizaard said:
Agreed. I'm making a separate point though, that no one has come back on. If it's a political point and the EU is one bloc, why has each country made their own decision, given we were told for years that we had no sovereignty?
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Good point Wiz, is this the point of implosion as there are a number of countries now making their own decisions on several issues e.g. vaccine suppliers, covid passports etc. I suspect a number of the lower level countries (my words) are getting a bit tired of the top 2 Germany and France thinking they speak for all EU countries due to their size and power.🤔
 
Wizaard said:
Each country makes their own choice. Exactly what you've been spouting doesnt happen in the EU.
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That's what I've been saying should happen. Now just think, if those member states had had the guts to procure their own vaccines instead of being hijacked by Brussels' desperate and incompetent vaccine programme. I bet they won't be such lap dogs going forward.
 
Lost Seasider said:
The vaccine is being supplied at cost so none of this should have any significant effect on AZ's share price.

Personally I'd have preferred to see some kind of mark up in a profit sharing deal with AZ, Ox and HMG, since we've spent £1bn+ developing it I don't see why equally rich countries can't pay some of that back, for what would still be the cheapest vaccine on the market.
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It’s at cost now, but it will not be forever - the markets are generally looking to the future and usually not today.

If it’s approved in the US they will sell loads in years to come, also apparently AZ have some pretty big other drugs coming on line as well.

Anyway, that’s what the girl on Bloomberg was saying earlier. 😉
 
Interesting article: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/busines...autionary-principle-literally-killing-europe/

If European countries are going to suspend the use of the AstraZeneca vaccine every time there is a random stochastic death, it would be better if they handed their stocks immediately to Africa and poorer regions of Asia.

The vaccine saga has degenerated into the most abject spectacle of European misgovernment in my working lifetime – although for sheer ineptitude it is hard to beat the absence of a lender-of-last-resort during the eurozone debt crisis.
 
Anyone who is worried about these inoculations, just walk a little quicker, as new research tells us:

"People who walk slowly may be almost four times more likely to die from coronavirus, and be potentially more than twice at risk of contracting severe Covid-19, researchers say.

Those who walk slowly and are a normal weight could be almost 2.5 times more likely to develop severe Covid-19 and 3.75 times more likely to die from the virus than normal-weight fast walkers, according to a new study.

Slow walking was considered to be at a speed of less than three miles per hour, steady/average speed was three to four miles per hour, or brisk at more than four miles per hour.

 
seasideone said:
It’s at cost now, but it will not be forever - the markets are generally looking to the future and usually not today.

If it’s approved in the US they will sell loads in years to come, also apparently AZ have some pretty big other drugs coming on line as well.

Anyway, that’s what the girl on Bloomberg was saying earlier. 😉
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A bit of a loss leader
 
I’m booked in tomorrow at Winter Gardens. Don’t know what they’re giving but I’ll be gratefully accepting it. I also have heard a rumour that this potentially life saving drug is being given to me for free.......as I say gratitude is my only emotion

just found out it’s Astra Zen
 
www.thesun.co.uk

Italy & France resume AstraZeneca rollout after admitting ban was political

ITALY and France will “quickly” resume giving out the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine once the European regulator gives the all-clear. They were among 20 European countries to suspend the us…
www.thesun.co.uk

mobile.reuters.com

Suspension of AstraZeneca shots is 'political decision': Italy's medicines regulator head

The decision by Germany, France and Italy to suspend AstraZeneca's COVID-19 shots after several countries reported possible serious side-effects is a "political one", the director general of Italy's medicines authority AIFA said on Tuesday.
mobile.reuters.com mobile.reuters.com
 
Delfino said:
Apols @Lala .... my interpretation of the suggestion was that the vaccine was being given in Norway to people who might have a slightly higher blood clot risk (on birth control) and as they were generally healthier individuals so any sudden blood clots were an immediate red flag. I.e. there was a likelier correlation than necessarily being causation.

I think they are right to investigate further but given the damage to the vaccine program I think they should have continued whilst they investigate. More lives are likely to be lost by stopping the rollout.

FWIW I've had the 1st Jan. It was AZ and I'll get the second unless told not to.
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Don’t apologise, you’re only imparting knowledge 👍
I don’t know which one I’m having yet but I’m going to have it anyway and hopefully all will be absolutely fine 👌
 
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