Begum again

Well I'm surprised she has lost.

I thought, the lawyers put a reasonable care about her being groomed.

I suppose what she said as an adult has tipped it?

I'll what is said later.
 
I suspect this is one the Government had to be seen to win as a deterrent to others thinking of doing something similar.
 
Halifax71 said:
Appreciate it's divisive but common sense in my book.

Edit to add, the fact that we're letting 000's in totally unchecked is another story.

www.bbc.co.uk

Shamima Begum bid to regain UK citizenship rejected

The 23-year-old loses her appeal on national security grounds, which means she cannot return to the UK.
www.bbc.co.uk
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We are not letting in thousands unchecked. They are all waiting to be checked. There are not the resources in UK customs, nor sufficient facilities put in place, to process them all. The Government is dragging its feet on this, as with everything else.
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
So what about the ones coming in on rubber dinghy’s getting ashore and doing a runner?
I read a report last year between 20%-25% are disappearing once they hit the shores never to be seen or heard of again.
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Again, insufficient resources and facilities put in place to process them. If there were proper UK customs facilities put in place on the French side, the incidence of small boats could be reduced and people processed properly. There will always be strays who are not processed but this can and should be massively reduced.
 
Well the £5m legal bill that the tax payer has had to pick up so far could have just been spent giving her her passport back when she moved into cell block b in one of our women’s prisons (that may or may not allow in men with wigs on - another debate topic)
Would have been a lot more simple and in line with our law.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
We are not letting in thousands unchecked. They are all waiting to be checked. There are not the resources in UK customs, nor sufficient facilities put in place, to process them all. The Government is dragging its feet on this, as with everything else.
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Anyone would think there had been a deliberate undercutting of resource to create a problem, so they can be seen to do something in the run up to an election.

See also inflation.
 
Chunkylad said:
Well the £5m legal bill that the tax payer has had to pick up so far could have just been spent giving her her passport back when she moved into cell block b in one of our women’s prisons (that may or may not allow in men with wigs on - another debate topic)
Would have been a lot more simple and in line with our law.
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She's missed a trick, could have identified as a Brit and she'd be back over here with a podcast before the weekend. 😄
 
Wizaard said:
So you refuse to watch it, yet know all the content, or are you prejudging.?

🤣😉
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Know all the content? 🤷‍♂️

As I’ve said above it was wrong for the BBC or anyone else for that matter to screen a documentary about her and her trying to get back into this country that’s why I refused to watch it.

The Government ruled on her 2 years ago that she was to lose her British passport so that should have been it.

Indeed it’s cost the British tax payer £5m to have this appeal hearing to simply agree with what the government ruled 2 years ago.

If that’s not a complete waste of tax payers money what is?

What next the European Court of appeal? Yet more £millions?

It’s time she just accepted the rulings that she’s not wanted back in this country and just accept it and go and find some other country who will let her in.
 
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Chunkylad said:
Well the £5m legal bill that the tax payer has had to pick up so far could have just been spent giving her her passport back when she moved into cell block b in one of our women’s prisons (that may or may not allow in men with wigs on - another debate topic)
Would have been a lot more simple and in line with our law.
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Yes we could have spent it on Boris trying to prove he isn't a liar, oh sorry we'll be doing that anyway .
We could have saved all this money by doing our duty and not casting her out. She joined a gang ( radicalised, and yes groomed) as a 15 year old, and has since lost 3 kids and had longer to reflect. She hasn't murdered anyone. We have lots of people who have committed big crimes walking the street, they've served punishment. Why couldn't we just let her back and have some humanity, she was a bloody kid.
How many people on this board got succked into things they regretted later when they were younger. There's lots of alternative options they could have done with her.
We as a country have become petty minded and pathetic. Easy to keep our attention on boat people, shamima begun etc than have you thinking about the government robbing us all and removing our bills. Bills that aim to remove YOUR right to legal avenues, appeals, European human rights , and the right to protest. Not just begums.
 
brightontangerine said:
Yes we could have spent it on Boris trying to prove he isn't a liar, oh sorry we'll be doing that anyway .
We could have saved all this money by doing our duty and not casting her out. She joined a gang ( radicalised, and yes groomed) as a 15 year old, and has since lost 3 kids and had longer to reflect. She hasn't murdered anyone. We have lots of people who have committed big crimes walking the street, they've served punishment. Why couldn't we just let her back and have some humanity, she was a bloody kid.
How many people on this board got succked into things they regretted later when they were younger. There's lots of alternative options they could have done with her.
We as a country have become petty minded and pathetic. Easy to keep our attention on boat people, shamima begun etc than have you thinking about the government robbing us all and removing our bills. Bills that aim to remove YOUR right to legal avenues, appeals, European human rights , and the right to protest. Not just begums.
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I just can’t believe someone on here actually feels sorry for her. 🤷‍♂️

However you miss a crucial point here.

She is out of the country others that you mention sadly aren’t.

And by the way she was old enough to know she married a terrorist group member and had kids with him and please don’t say she was forced into that as well.

She only wanted to return after ISIS took a pounding and driven out of the area.

Time she gave up on her quest to return and go and find somewhere else to live.
 
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brightontangerine said:
Yes we could have spent it on Boris trying to prove he isn't a liar, oh sorry we'll be doing that anyway .
We could have saved all this money by doing our duty and not casting her out. She joined a gang ( radicalised, and yes groomed) as a 15 year old, and has since lost 3 kids and had longer to reflect. She hasn't murdered anyone. We have lots of people who have committed big crimes walking the street, they've served punishment. Why couldn't we just let her back and have some humanity, she was a bloody kid.
How many people on this board got succked into things they regretted later when they were younger. There's lots of alternative options they could have done with her.
We as a country have become petty minded and pathetic. Easy to keep our attention on boat people, shamima begun etc than have you thinking about the government robbing us all and removing our bills. Bills that aim to remove YOUR right to legal avenues, appeals, European human rights , and the right to protest. Not just begums.
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Sadly this isn’t the last we’ll her of her attempts to get back to the UK. She’s only just Begum.

I don’t want her back. But I also don’t think she should be another country’s problem. She’s our responsibility I’d say. So it’s a difficult one for me. With regret I’d take her back and put her through any appropriate prosecution process. I’ve no idea whether she would end up in jail or for how long. But sooner or later she’d be free to roam albeit monitored 24/7, to some extent, like the tens of thousands of other potential terrorists that are roaming the UK.
 
Maybe we could get her back and behead her? Or maybe we could just be above all that and show her humanity. When we stoop to revenge tactics which is what this is we help create the next generation of those with a grudge who might feel a bit alienated in 'our' culture and decide to do something drastic and fatal they think is heroic.
I'm not feeling sorry for her. I just think we've got this all wrong. And why should she be another country's problem.
 
brightontangerine said:
Maybe we could get her back and behead her? Or maybe we could just be above all that and show her humanity. When we stoop to revenge tactics which is what this is we help create the next generation of those with a grudge who might feel a bit alienated in 'our' culture and decide to do something drastic and fatal they think is heroic.
I'm not feeling sorry for her. I just think we've got this all wrong. And why should she be another country's problem.
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You speak of humanity? But as I recall ISIS had a habit of beheading innocent people usually in front of a video camera to show the world, maybe her husband took part in such despicable acts and you talk about showing humanity?

As I’ve said previously rulings have been made on her (twice now and at great cost) so it’s high time we just forgot about her.
 
Bend it like Suddick said:
No, but that's the point...nobody knows how active she was and how involved she was. The only thing that was evident when she was interviewed in the Camp was her hatred towards British Society and her love of the ISIS model.
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I'm sure she's really fond of British society now. If she is still radicalised then she is potentially now a bigger threat being that much angrier and bitter. I remind you plenty of people do crazy things in their teens that they later regret, particularly when they are part of a 'gang'. How many teenage football hooligans believe in Blackpool to the extent they can put other innocent fans in a hospital or worse. Not many continue to do it though. They usually grow up.
 
brightontangerine said:
I'm sure she's really fond of British society now. If she is still radicalised then she is potentially now a bigger threat being that much angrier and bitter. I remind you plenty of people do crazy things in their teens that they later regret, particularly when they are part of a 'gang'. How many teenage football hooligans believe in Blackpool to the extent they can put other innocent fans in a hospital or worse. Not many continue to do it though. They usually grow up.
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fair point, but also remember its her side of the story, British Intelligence on her is classified.

However, reading between the lines with the way the Govt has reacted to her, I would surmise that she has done plenty
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
You speak of humanity? But as I recall ISIS had a habit of beheading innocent people usually in front of a video camera to show the world, maybe her husband took part in such despicable acts and you talk about showing humanity?

As I’ve said previously rulings have been made on her (twice now and at great cost) so it’s high time we just forgot about her.
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That's why we have to be bigger than them. The Saudis behead people you know ( many with unfair trials) , do their matches get boycotted , no they get televised and advertised and any fans protest get removed. No nasty banners please. It's a sick world we live in.
 
brightontangerine said:
Yes we could have spent it on Boris trying to prove he isn't a liar, oh sorry we'll be doing that anyway .
We could have saved all this money by doing our duty and not casting her out. She joined a gang ( radicalised, and yes groomed) as a 15 year old, and has since lost 3 kids and had longer to reflect. She hasn't murdered anyone. We have lots of people who have committed big crimes walking the street, they've served punishment. Why couldn't we just let her back and have some humanity, she was a bloody kid.
How many people on this board got succked into things they regretted later when they were younger. There's lots of alternative options they could have done with her.
We as a country have become petty minded and pathetic. Easy to keep our attention on boat people, shamima begun etc than have you thinking about the government robbing us all and removing our bills. Bills that aim to remove YOUR right to legal avenues, appeals, European human rights , and the right to protest. Not just begums.
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Think you played the man there not the ball?
My view is probably somewhere in the middle of your “let bygones be bygones” and others “she is where she chose and should be”?

For me - allow her home. Arrest and try in court under the relevant terrorism charges. I suspect that’ll be a long sentence.

The 15 year old being a kid argument is very interesting? That does need to be taken into account in the same way that it was for Jamie Bulgers killers. At 19 she was on camera and showed no remorse for her decisions four years earlier and this framed the court decision I guess?

Yes we all do stupid things in our teens and normally grow up later. We are though punished for those stupid acts be they fighting, shop lifting, joining terrorist death cells.
 
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There are literally hundreds of young men who fought for ISIS who have returned to Britain, why we are in such a tiz about one young woman is beyond me.
 
🙄 This just in from Hansard, 2019


’The Home Secretary recently stated that as many as 900 people who have been deemed to be a concern to our national security have travelled to Syria and Iraq to join terrorist organisations. About 20% of those 900 have been killed on the battlefield, 40% remain in the region and 40% have returned to the UK. That means that about 360 people who are deemed to be a security concern have travelled to Iraq and Syria and since returned. Of those 900 people, more than 100 have been deprived of their British citizenship.’

You’re not terribly well-informed, are you Jaff
 
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As I remember, at the time of her leaving, she left of her own free will.
Obviously the harder life over there has made her change her mind.
Good decision to not allow her back.
 
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Recidivist3 said:
Recidivist3 said:
🙄 This just in from Hansard, 2019


’The Home Secretary recently stated that as many as 900 people who have been deemed to be a concern to our national security have travelled to Syria and Iraq to join terrorist organisations. About 20% of those 900 have been killed on the battlefield, 40% remain in the region and 40% have returned to the UK. That means that about 360 people who are deemed to be a security concern have travelled to Iraq and Syria and since returned. Of those 900 people, more than 100 have been deprived of their British citizenship.’

You’re not terribly well-informed, are you Jaff
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Looks like you are outvoted again DIcko awww didduums😜🇬🇧
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brightontangerine said:
Yes we could have spent it on Boris trying to prove he isn't a liar, oh sorry we'll be doing that anyway .
We could have saved all this money by doing our duty and not casting her out. She joined a gang ( radicalised, and yes groomed) as a 15 year old, and has since lost 3 kids and had longer to reflect. She hasn't murdered anyone. We have lots of people who have committed big crimes walking the street, they've served punishment. Why couldn't we just let her back and have some humanity, she was a bloody kid.
How many people on this board got succked into things they regretted later when they were younger. There's lots of alternative options they could have done with her.
We as a country have become petty minded and pathetic. Easy to keep our attention on boat people, shamima begun etc than have you thinking about the government robbing us all and removing our bills. Bills that aim to remove YOUR right to legal avenues, appeals, European human rights , and the right to protest. Not just begums.
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Can’t believe I’ve just read this crap
 
When I went to school from an early age the 10 commandments were drummed into us. At age 15 I had grasped that murder was wrong. No excuse and the BBC should not waste licence payers money covering this on their pod casts.
 
This is a tricky one. The judgment seems to be that Sajid Javid was within his rights as then Home Secretary to make the decision to strip Begum of UK citizenship. However, whether that decision is legally defensible is debatable.

It is not permitted to strip someone of UK citizenship if that would render them stateless. Javid backed up his decision by saying she was entitled to Bangladeshi citizenship since her parents immigrated from there and she inherited that right. However, he was being a bit duplicitous, a little economical with the actualité.

Begum only had a temporary right to claim Bangladeshi citizenship until she reached the age of 21 after which that would be irrevocably lost. But that was never a real or claimable right since the Bangladesh Govt said immediately they would have nothing to do with her. And she has never visited Bangladesh in her life. And being stuck in Syria she never could have done so in time. Javid knew all that.

Now Begum is 23, so cannot claim any other citizenship, she is truly stateless and has been made so by the UK Govt. And stuck in Syria which is what Javid wanted. Don’t forget that, at that time, Javid was jostling for position for the Tory leadership and wanted to look “good” to the voting Tory membership.

That’s just discussing the legality not the morality of the decision. It’s likely there will be further legal challenges.
 
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Archibald Knox said:
This is a tricky one. The judgment seems to be that Sajid Javid was within his rights as then Home Secretary to make the decision to strip Begum of UK citizenship. However, whether that decision is legally defensible is debatable.

It is not permitted to strip someone of UK citizenship if that would render them stateless. Javid backed up his decision by saying she was entitled to Bangladeshi citizenship since her parents immigrated from there and she inherited that right. However, he was being a bit duplicitous, a little economical with the actualité.

Begum only had a temporary right to claim Bangladeshi citizenship until she reached the age of 21 after which that would be irrevocably lost. But that was never a real or claimable right since the Bangladesh Govt said immediately they would have nothing to do with her. And she has never visited Bangladesh in her life. And being stuck in Syria she never could have done so in time. Javid knew all that.

Now Begum is 23, so cannot claim any other citizenship, she is truly stateless and has been made so by the UK Govt. And stuck in Syria which is what Javid wanted. Don’t forget that, at that time, Javid was jostling for position for the Tory leadership and wanted to look “good” to the voting Tory membership.

That’s just discussing the legality not the morality of the decision. It’s likely there will be further legal challenges.
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It could equally be argued that she was made stateless by Bangladesh by refusing her right to citizenship before she turned 21.
 
Seasider1887 said:
She agreed with the Manchester bombing of little children. And you want her back? Have a word with yourself.
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She never condemned the beheadings by ISIS as well in an early documentary I saw a few years ago and she wasn’t 15 back then either.

She’s gone now she’s history so good riddance to her. 👍
 
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