Blackpool Airport

[Matesrates]

Can’t the runway be extended?

 

[Jaffa_The_Hut]

It's not just take off weight, it's minimum landing distance in wet conditions, so the larger versions of the 737 can't, in practice, land there, so the airport is limited to the 737-700 and Max 7 variants only.

Airbus A220 and A320 families would be more viable, the latter with reduced MTOW.

-800’s have used Blackpool with weight restrictions.
And as I’ve said already much larger aircraft have used it again with restrictions.
10 years ago a Boeing 747 Jumbo landed at Kemble airfield which has less than a 300ft longer runway than Blackpool like I said it’s all about weight restrictions.

 

[Jaffa_The_Hut]

Can’t the runway be extended?

It can but would have to be at the Queensway end so a bridge would have to be built over the road due to the runway elevation so it would cost millions and who would pay for it?

 

[Lost Seasider]

-800’s have used Blackpool with weight restrictions.
And as I’ve said already much larger aircraft have used it again with restrictions.

800's on second glance, might be just within the wet landing limits, anything larger than that can land, but only in the dry.

I think the bigger problem is passenger numbers, the estimates I've seen (Googled, anyway), suggest 1.2m is the break-even point for an airport, and I don't see where that's going to come from.

 

[Limechase]

I stopped using Blackpool, as I could get a taxi to Manchester, have lunch, and fly RTN to Malaga for less than the jet2 flight cost, plus the ,£10per person development fee? Where did that go?

 

[Jaffa_The_Hut]

800's on second glance, might be just within the wet landing limits, anything larger than that can land, but only in the dry.

I think the bigger problem is passenger numbers, the estimates I've seen (Googled, anyway), suggest 1.2m is the break-even point for an airport, and I don't see where that's going to come from.

Agree.
In its heyday back in 2009 the most passengers ever handled was just shy of 550,000 it averaged 300,000-400,000 for a number of years with Ryanair and Jet2 until it closed in Oct 2014.
Stats have always shown a million+ people would have to use it just to break even.
As we were told at Wednesdays meeting even packed holiday flights the airport was loosing between £2-£3m annually due entirely to shocking contracts that existed which saw all the profits go to the airlines not the airport.

 

[Lost Seasider]

Agree.
In its heyday back in 2011 the most passengers ever handled was just shy of 600,000 it averaged 400,000-500,000 for a number of years with Ryanair and Jet2 until it closed in Oct 2014.

It dropped off to ~250,000 from 2009 onwards once Ryanair pulled out.

Stats have always shown a million+ people would have to use it just to break even.
As we were told at Wednesdays meeting even packed holiday flights the airport was loosing between £2-£3m annually due entirely to shocking contracts that existed which saw all the profits go to the airlines not the airport.

It would've been losing money regardless of the contracts due to capacity, and if the contracts really were any more shocking than elsewhere, then it would've been because all the negotiating power belonged to the airlines due to the lack of other users.

 

[Jaffa_The_Hut]

It dropped off to ~250,000 from 2009 onwards once Ryanair pulled out.



It would've been losing money regardless of the contracts due to capacity, and if the contracts really were any more shocking than elsewhere, then it would've been because all the negotiating power belonged to the airlines due to the lack of other users.

According to the MD this year is the first year in decades the airport will actually show a small profit.

 

[seasidelytham]

It can but would have to be at the Queensway end so a bridge would have to be built over the road due to the runway elevation so it would cost millions and who would pay for it?

Shame - Leeds Bradford runway uses a bridge over main road. As you say though, the cost these days would be extortionate.

 

[seasidelytham]

According to the MD this year is the first year in decades the airport will actually show a small profit.

It’s a start

 

[AllezBlackpool]

It can but would have to be at the Queensway end so a bridge would have to be built over the road due to the runway elevation so it would cost millions and who would pay for it?

Or a tunnel

 

[Come on the Pool!]

Yer my teasing is over just wanted to give time to Lewis_Winthorpe to retract his statement obviously he thinks he knows better.

Was at a meeting yesterday at the airport with the airports MD and a few others and the news is very encouraging indeed.

A new air terminal is being built starts next week and it will be complete by end of year or Jan 2024.
It’s only a small single story building (for now) but considering the airport hasn’t had a terminal for over 8 years years it’s a 100% improvement.

An airline (nameless for now) is onboard to start up scheduled services next year and although to be finalised yet routes to Isle of Man/Belfast and possibly Dublin will be the priority and “if” successful the airline would consider other routes including European ones.

3 x new 20,000 square feet hangars are going to be built for a new business enterprise which includes aircraft maintenance/overhaul and aircraft salvage an American company (nameless for now) is looking at Blackpool airport as a future European hub for such work.

New control tower going up as is a new fire station and a new fuel facility will be built also a brand new aircraft training college is going to be built alongside the existing energy college.

There are no current plans for holiday flights returning for the foreseeable as it’s all based on cost and Blackpool airport was loosing £2-£3m on these flights even though they were pretty much full on every flight.

It’s a 10 year plan in 3 development phases but like I said things are starting as early as next week with the new air terminal building starting.

A brand new access road will be going in off squires gate lane.

If it all goes to plan up to 120 jobs could be created in the aircraft maintenance/repair sector alone.

Hopefully a few flights to Belfast

 

[Davepick]

Do you want one last go Dave I can put a good word in for you?

Jaffa, the whole scenario has changed since I was a Customs Officer.
I probably wouldn't know how to do the job now. (Even if I did then ).
I was never in VAT and only briefly in Excise.
Mainly after aty airports.
Loved it.

 

[Jaffa_The_Hut]

Jaffa, the whole scenario has changed since I was a Customs Officer.
I probably wouldn't know how to do the job now. (Even if I did then ).
I was never in VAT and only briefly in Excise.
Mainly after aty airports.
Loved it.

Just think Dave you’ll never get to body search Elton John again in the way you did at Luton Airport.

 

[Davepick]

Just think Dave you’ll never get to body search Elton John again in the way you did at Luton Airport.

I remeber one quite well known TV actress I pulled over in Departure Controls. Had a little Cannabis on her.
Needless to say, she missed her flight and her home, in London area, was searched. (not by me )
Can't name her for obvious reasons.
I'm talking 1980s,.

 

[bfcpete]

Its going to be home to the new Lancashire Space Port.

Richard Branson was in town last month

Have Blackpool Council bought his failed Virgin Orbit space company out of administration?

 

[bfcpete]

Well there was the excellent Robin Hood Airport near Doncaster. Closed in November last year because they deemed it financially unviable. It had a long runway, modern terminal (opened in 2005), excellent transport links, a variety of destinations and up to 1.4m users per year (it has a good catchment area). They are struggling to re-open it. It will be interesting to see if Blackpool can recover when it hasn't as many advantages to draw on.

 

[Wizaard]

Can’t the runway be extended?

Across the prom into the sea? A new pier perhaps?

 

[Bisphamtang]

There is no way Blackpool Airport will open to commercial passengers again.

 

[Macseasider]

Very promising news. Used to use the Jet2 flights to Faro to go on our lads golf trips. So easy flying back into Blackpool. Thought the opportunity to fly out of our home town was going to be a thing of history. Exciting.

 

[Jaffa_The_Hut]

There is no way Blackpool Airport will open to commercial passengers again.

You like a little wager on it?

 

[Jaffa_The_Hut]

Well there was the excellent Robin Hood Airport near Doncaster. Closed in November last year because they deemed it financially unviable. It had a long runway, modern terminal (opened in 2005), excellent transport links, a variety of destinations and up to 1.4m users per year (it has a good catchment area). They are struggling to re-open it. It will be interesting to see if Blackpool can recover when it hasn't as many advantages to draw on.

And Surprise surprise the same owners who closed Blackpool airport closed Doncaster.

 

[seasidelytham]

Has the proposed terminal building work commenced today?

 

[bfcpete]

Wasn't the terminal announced last month an offshore helicopter terminal?

 

[TSSeasider]

Yer my teasing is over just wanted to give time to Lewis_Winthorpe to retract his statement obviously he thinks he knows better.

Was at a meeting yesterday at the airport with the airports MD and a few others and the news is very encouraging indeed.

A new air terminal is being built starts next week and it will be complete by end of year or Jan 2024.
It’s only a small single story building (for now) but considering the airport hasn’t had a terminal for over 8 years years it’s a 100% improvement.

An airline (nameless for now) is onboard to start up scheduled services next year and although to be finalised yet routes to Isle of Man/Belfast and possibly Dublin will be the priority and “if” successful the airline would consider other routes including European ones.

3 x new 20,000 square feet hangars are going to be built for a new business enterprise which includes aircraft maintenance/overhaul and aircraft salvage an American company (nameless for now) is looking at Blackpool airport as a future European hub for such work.

New control tower going up as is a new fire station and a new fuel facility will be built also a brand new aircraft training college is going to be built alongside the existing energy college.

There are no current plans for holiday flights returning for the foreseeable as it’s all based on cost and Blackpool airport was loosing £2-£3m on these flights even though they were pretty much full on every flight.

It’s a 10 year plan in 3 development phases but like I said things are starting as early as next week with the new air terminal building starting.

A brand new access road will be going in off squires gate lane.

If it all goes to plan up to 120 jobs could be created in the aircraft maintenance/repair sector alone.

That sounds like it's the blueprint Teesside has been working to.

But to give the scale of the challenge; Teesside has just had it's busiest month in 13 years (June) with 26,000 passengers. Which is still only a quarter of the 100,000 needed to break even.

They've got an aviation partner to fix planes

And haulage is growing (but still only shifts 23 tonnes a week on a brilliant week)

But I seriously doubt it will ever get close to breaking even, let alone pay back the £100m or so tax payer subsidy.

 

[Matesrates]

Well obviously if I could fly to Europe from Blackpool, I would, as I imagine would everyone who lives on the Fylde Coast and probably Morecambe and Lancaster. Whether that’s enough, I’ve no idea.

 

[spudgun]

Ran this past my best pal who is a pilot and works out of Squire Gate. He is very much across this stuff and said whilst some of it may be possible (flights to IOM and Ireland) there has always been much talk with little discernible action over many years, and generally poured cold water on it.

Not saying he is definitely right but it is an informed opinion from someone on the ground (or in the air) as it were.

Would be ace if it came to fruition though. Blackpool to Newquay, please...

 

[Lost Seasider]

You like a little wager on it?

How do you think it would be financially viable, with a relatively small number of passengers using it?

 

[Bloodtangerine]

I remeber one quite well known TV actress I pulled over in Departure Controls. Had a little Cannabis on her.
Needless to say, she missed her flight and her home, in London area, was searched. (not by me )
Can't name her for obvious reasons.
I'm talking 1980s,.

Lorraine Chase eh Dave….what a naughty lass

 

[Bloodtangerine]

Can’t the runway be extended?

No, doesn’t need to be. The pilots just need to brake a bit harder

 

[Jaffa_The_Hut]

How do you think it would be financially viable, with a relatively small number of passengers using it?

Scheduled airlines make the money not the charter flights that’s why Blackpool was losing money last time around even though most flights were taking off full.
I honestly don’t know if it’s going to be financially viable until it’s starts up and how many passengers start using the services offered.
As the saying goes time will tell.

 

[Davepick]

Lorraine Chase eh Dave….what a naughty lass

Blood, did I say Lorraine Chase??
Had quite a few of the 'Page Three' ladies now and then.

 

[Cuthbert]

I think flights to Southend would be perfect and would benefit both airports

Southend is closing: Doncaster with almost 2.5m passengers closed last year; Carlisle is now closed; Teesside gets 150,000 passengers a year and each tax payer locally is subsidising travellers. Liverpool has a lot fewer flights; Gatwick is a complete mess; Prestwick is now down to a max of 4 flights a day outbound. Why should the tax payer of Blackpool pay for this. Its an ego trip. There is a train to Manchester Airport.

 

[fcblackpool]

I think it needs freight to become viable and then that may be able to subsidise passenger flights in the short term anyway. No point opening up with just Malaga, Girona, Faro and Dublin. It needs quite a few more than that to get a wider geographic base who would look at Blackpool and see where it flies to, as opposed to Blackpool flies to Malaga so it suits us, but in October we want to go to Athens so Manchester it is.

Also the freight route would bring in Enterprise money from the Gov I'd think.

A shame houses were built on Pontins land.

 

[tommytwojags]

Well obviously if I could fly to Europe from Blackpool, I would, as I imagine would everyone who lives on the Fylde Coast and probably Morecambe and Lancaster. Whether that’s enough, I’ve no idea.

Europe flights are never going to be viable and nobody is going to invest in them as things stand. Flights to IOM and Belfast can work though.

My local airport in Donegal is a similar size and operates with only daily flights to Dublin and seasonal flights to Glasgow and it just about gets by but provides a necessary and vital transport link.

 

[Matesrates]

Europe flights are never going to be viable and nobody is going to invest in them as things stand. Flights to IOM and Belfast can work though.

My local airport in Donegal is a similar size and operates with only daily flights to Dublin and seasonal flights to Glasgow and it just about gets by but provides a necessary and vital transport link.

You’re probably right, but I just can’t see the attraction of flying to the IOM and Belfast

 

[Lost Seasider]

I think it needs freight to become viable and then that may be able to subsidise passenger flights in the short term anyway.

But then, why would the owners want to operate passenger flights at a loss, even if there was sufficient freight traffic to subsidize it?

The only way I see it being viable is if Liverpool starts to reach the limits of its capacity, and the operators decide to move perhaps the UK and Ireland services from there, and I see no sign of that being likely to happen.

 

[fcblackpool]

But then, why would the owners want to operate passenger flights at a loss, even if there was sufficient freight traffic to subsidize it?

The only way I see it being viable is if Liverpool starts to reach the limits of its capacity, and the operators decide to move perhaps the UK and Ireland services from there, and I see no sign of that being likely to happen.

100% agree. It'll never be viable playing at passenger flights. It will have to go sort of all in and yeah, that probably depends on Liverpool becoming full. If it goes for these flights with limited destinations it won't succeed. People will come and see how easy it is to use for the first time, but they aren't likely to choose a destination because The Air Balloon does nice soup and it's only a short walk.

My point really is I think it will need volume through the door to be profitable. And that will need a short/medium term subsidy source.

 

[todayistheday]

A continuious roller coaster, up when we hsve a few flights, after a couple of years, the down and administration and repeat.

 

[Southend tangerine]

Southend is closing: Doncaster with almost 2.5m passengers closed last year; Carlisle is now closed; Teesside gets 150,000 passengers a year and each tax payer locally is subsidising travellers. Liverpool has a lot fewer flights; Gatwick is a complete mess; Prestwick is now down to a max of 4 flights a day outbound. Why should the tax payer of Blackpool pay for this. Its an ego trip. There is a train to Manchester Airport.

Don’t know how accurate the rest of what you say is but Southend isn’t closing. New routes have been announced this week and other new routes started over the summer.

 

[Wizaard]

Europe flights are never going to be viable and nobody is going to invest in them as things stand. Flights to IOM and Belfast can work though.

My local airport in Donegal is a similar size and operates with only daily flights to Dublin and seasonal flights to Glasgow and it just about gets by but provides a necessary and vital transport link.

That may be the case for Donegal, but Blackpool to Manchester is 45 minutes by motorway or train, with links to the rest of the world. As such, its not such a vital transport link.

 

[Lost Seasider]

Don’t know how accurate the rest of what you say is but Southend isn’t closing. New routes have been announced this week and other new routes started over the summer.

Is it still up for sale?

 

[Southend tangerine]

Is it still up for sale?

Yes I think so

 

[Jaffa_The_Hut]

Southend is closing: Doncaster with almost 2.5m passengers closed last year; Carlisle is now closed; Teesside gets 150,000 passengers a year and each tax payer locally is subsidising travellers. Liverpool has a lot fewer flights; Gatwick is a complete mess; Prestwick is now down to a max of 4 flights a day outbound. Why should the tax payer of Blackpool pay for this. Its an ego trip. There is a train to Manchester Airport.

Carlisle has been closed for over 2 years.

Doncaster has the same owners who closed Blackpool airport in 2014 after they found out they couldn’t build a housing estate on it coincidence?

Who says Southend airport is closing apart from you? It’s up for sale that’s all.

Who says the tax payer is going to pay for the airport? The funding for now is coming out of the enterprise zone pot which has already been set aside by government future growth will be from the private sector in investment.

 

[Seainsea]

I remember the Ryanair Blackpool to Stansted service think I got a one way ticket for 10 quid!

 

[The Catcher in the Rye]

Still no announcement. Has the work started on new terminal building?

 

[Jaffa_The_Hut]

Still no announcement. Has the work started on new terminal building?

The news mentioned earlier by me has already been released to the voice magazine who did an interview with Steve Peters the airports MD.
Surprised the evening gazette never picked the story up but as we all know on here the gazette is a terrible evening news paper.
The work was starting this week to quote the MD so if anyone who lives down that way can report we would soon find out.

 

[Jaffa_The_Hut]

 

[Jaffa_The_Hut]

 

[Jaffa_The_Hut]

Apologies for the poor quality but I’ve had to shrink in size I’ve also tried putting up a direct link to the website tried several times without success.