Bolton BSM game

TheLuker said:
"It's a business and Sadler needs to make money...."

As I understand it, he's not making anything, he's putting in a few million a year to keep us afloat and reasonably competitive.

Last night was fantastic and showcased on national television what a great team and manager we have. It also showcased that even cheap tickets won't get people in the ground and whilst the atmosphere was decent, the swathes of empty seats were embarassing. We are a L1 club playing Prem opposition and the ground should've been overflowing. The away leg at Forest was a sell-out, almost 30,000 - the only empty seats were the ones that Blackpool returned.

We as a fanbase seem to want more and more whilst contributing less and less. I actually think that year in the Prem was one of the worst things to happen to this club as it's created an insurmountable level of expectation and entitlement such that we only get 6000 fans turning out for a fantastic spectacle like last night.
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That's not what it showcased at all, as run that game at a high price and the numbers would be a lot less.

What it showcased was some apathy for the same opposition, a freezing night on tv can affect things. Also even our league attendances drop a fair bit on a weeknight, with people who've already paid for the game with a ST, called exiles, of which we have many who make up our fanbase.

So there's lots of factors.

We get a bit over 9k average home fans in the league, so when you take away a lot of the exiles, kids who won't have gone to a night game, some elderly and some who weren't that up for it or had other commitments, it makes sense.

Price is a factor, just as the size or importance of the game is. If it's such an important game it can override price largely, but being cheaper and more affordable will always open the door to more being able and willing to attend.
 
JJpool said:
That's not what it showcased at all, as run that game at a high price and the numbers would be a lot less.

What it showcased was some apathy for the same opposition, a freezing night on tv can affect things. Also even our league attendances drop a fair bit on a weeknight, with people who've already paid for the game with a ST, called exiles, of which we have many who make up our fanbase.

So there's lots of factors.

We get a bit over 9k average home fans in the league, so when you take away a lot of the exiles, kids who won't have gone to a night game, some elderly and some who weren't that up for it or had other commitments, it makes sense.

Price is a factor, just as the size or importance of the game is. If it's such an important game it can override price largely, but being cheaper and more affordable will always open the door to more being able and willing to attend.
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I'm an exile, bought a ticket and was there. It was -7° on the way home. I'm more disappointed by the many who live within 5 miles of the ground and openly admitted they couldn't be bothered. Supporters?

As it happens it was their loss.
 
Wizaard said:
I'm an exile, bought a ticket and was there. It was -7° on the way home. I'm more disappointed by the many who live within 5 miles of the ground and openly admitted they couldn't be bothered. Supporters?

As it happens it was their loss.
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You're not exactly the average exile are you, I'm speaking generally. The majority won't have travelled.
 
JJpool said:
That's not what it showcased at all, as run that game at a high price and the numbers would be a lot less.

What it showcased was some apathy for the same opposition, a freezing night on tv can affect things. Also even our league attendances drop a fair bit on a weeknight, with people who've already paid for the game with a ST, called exiles, of which we have many who make up our fanbase.

So there's lots of factors.

We get a bit over 9k average home fans in the league, so when you take away a lot of the exiles, kids who won't have gone to a night game, some elderly and some who weren't that up for it or had other commitments, it makes sense.

Price is a factor, just as the size or importance of the game is. If it's such an important game it can override price largely, but being cheaper and more affordable will always open the door to more being able and willing to attend.
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On an earlier post you wrote "we also need big games at home, big cup games etc that will fill the stadium and help attract casuals and the next generation."

An FA Cup replay against Prem opposition should've been that game but it wasn't. So who are you limiting the opposition to in order to fill the stadium? City, Liverpool and United? We've seen that we don't often draw them.

Too many of our fans are stuck in 2010 and no longer see an FA Cup replay against two- time European Cup Winners Notts Forest with World Cup winners in their team as a big enough game for them to go and watch.

So yes, apathy but also delusions as to who we are and where we are at as a club.
 
TheLuker said:
I was busy yesterday writing my new novel.

It's about a whole load of middle aged and elderly mainly white men who contribute to an online forum on a topic that they are passionate about but don't really understand

It's full of interesting characters with a few antagonists, oddballs, and bullies.

The working title is Another View From The Pet Shop.
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Very good, probably be a best seller 🤩
 
TheLuker said:
On an earlier post you wrote "we also need big games at home, big cup games etc that will fill the stadium and help attract casuals and the next generation."

An FA Cup replay against Prem opposition should've been that game but it wasn't. So who are you limiting the opposition to? City, Liverpool and United? We've seen that we don't often draw them.

Too many of our fans are stuck in 2010 and no longer see an FA Cup replay against two- time European Cup Winners Notts Forest with World Cup winners in their team as a big enough game for them to go and watch.

So yes, apathy but also delusions as to who we are and where we are at as a club.
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Forest aren't a big prem side and aren't seen as one are they, the market told us that twice, it doesn't lie. The interest in the 2 home games against Forest wasn't huge, it was actually higher this time under far less favourable conditions.

One of the big or more established, well known prem sides that would be exciting would sell more than one that's really just gone up, we had last season and have played loads. It just doesn't get the juices flowing.

Man u, Arsenal, Liverpool, City, Tottenham, Chelsea, Newcastle, Villa, maybe West ham, Everton are an established side even and big name. Even some lesser ones that we haven't played before or for ages.

It also helps to be on a Saturday so the 3rd round draw at home is helpful. Going forward a bit of Cup draw luck could be hugely helpful.

We only get just over 9k home fans in the league in league 1 so 6k going on on a freezing weeknight on TV etc isn't that bad considering. It may be for a few but largely it's not delusions at who ore where we are at all. It was a combination of factors plus the same opposition not seen as that exciting to some.
 
JJpool said:
Forest aren't a big prem side and aren't seen as one are they, the market told us that twice, it doesn't lie. The interest in the 2 home games against Forest wasn't huge, it was actually higher this time under far less favourable conditions.

One of the big or more established, well known prem sides that would be exciting would sell more than one that's really just gone up, we had last season and have played loads. It just doesn't get the juices flowing.

Man u, Arsenal, Liverpool, City, Tottenham, Chelsea, Newcastle, Villa, maybe West ham, Everton are an established side even and big name. Even some lesser ones that we haven't played before or for ages.

It also helps to be on a Saturday so the 3rd round draw at home is helpful. Going forward a bit of Cup draw luck could be hugely helpful.

We only get just over 9k home fans in the league in league 1 so 6k going on on a freezing weeknight on TV etc isn't that bad considering. It may be for a few but largely it's not delusions at who ore where we are at all. It was a combination of factors plus the same opposition not seen as that exciting to some.
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So what's the point in increasing stadium capacity if we are rarely or ever going to need it?

Oh, and the first tie at Forest was a big enough tie for them to sell out for home fans, even though they were playing tier 3 opposition.
 
TheLuker said:
So what's the point in increasing stadium capacity if we are rarely or ever going to need it?

Oh, and the first tie at Forest was a big enough tie for them to sell out for home fans, even though they were playing tier 3 opposition.
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Well for 1 the stand has to be done, 2 it's only increasing capacity slightly if the 4600 is correct, but the usable capacity is more useful.

Also you build a stand for decades ahead, not where you are now. For real big and or important games we could easily fill our 3 sides now and a bit more even in league 1.

It only takes a promotion, a big game and you could find we're then having to make decisions between less away fan or more home fans. Or this or next season for eg, if you get the playoffs the later home games and the playoff home game would be very popular or if you were going for auto promotion the place would be far more popular.

If you want to grow the fanbase, when these big occasions do come and the demand is there, you have to be able to accommodate it. Growth will be steady and gradual but big games and relative success can help speed it up.
 
JJpool said:
Well for 1 the stand has to be done, 2 it's only increasing capacity slightly if the 4600 is correct, but the usable capacity is more useful.

Also you build a stand for decades ahead, not where you are now. For real big and or important games we could easily fill our 3 sides now and a bit more even in league 1.

It only takes a promotion, a big game and you could find we're then having to make decisions between less away fan or more home fans. Or this or next season for eg, if you get the playoffs the later home games and the playoff home game would be very popular or if you were going for auto promotion the place would be far more popular.

If you want to grow the fanbase, when these big occasions do come and the demand is there, you have to be able to accommodate it. Growth will be steady and gradual but big games and relative success can help speed it up.
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There was a big occasion on Wednesday and as a fanbase we only filled about half of the stadium so there is no indication that the demand is there. I don't think that we even sold out for Preston over the last two seasons did we?
 
Lancstangerine said:
To try and get a decent crowd behind us - which we will need against them, is it an option for the club to make it free entry for ST holders? Normally we’d be lucky to get a couple of thousand home fans but if it’s free for ST holders we could treble that. Charge £15 for match tickets and there wont be much difference in revenue compared to the £10 we’ve charged in previous rounds. Bolton will sell a couple of thousand even at £15 I’d have thought.
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Stewarding and policing bill will be through the roof - so price increases will have to be implemented, unfortunately.

After the way the players played Wednesday, the least we can do as fans is get behind them in the cup they’ve still got a chance of winning.
 
ItsGrimUpNorth said:
Stewarding and policing bill will be through the roof - so price increases will have to be implemented, unfortunately.

After the way the players played Wednesday, the least we can do as fans is get behind them in the cup they’ve still got a chance of winning.
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100%.

I've now agreed with you and Phil today. I'm going for a lie down as something must be up with me.
 
TheLuker said:
There was a big occasion on Wednesday and as a fanbase we only filled about half of the stadium so there is no indication that the demand is there. I don't think that we even sold out for Preston over the last two seasons did we?
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6k went and you'd only get about 8k actually there on a weeknight league game, when they've already paid. It wasn't as big an occasion as people thought to some, the reality is if you ask a casual about going to watch Nottingham forest again they aren't that bothered.

Getting in the playoffs would be far bigger regardless of opposition, so would being near the top of the league.

You don't use 1 night game to judge demand when building a stand that'll last for decades.

We did sell out for 1 but under weird limiting segregation. The 2nd we didn't but still spilled into the east, it was under the disliked Appleton in a bad season, with the high pricing membership route, not an appealing price for casuals.

We have also been in a cost of living crisis that hopefully is reducing and again, going forward, should have far less of an impact.

We came down bigger in league 1 than before thanks to the time in the championship. So if we go up again we'll be even bigger.

Let's not forget, and I've mentioned this before, we got promoted with no fans in attendance all season, bar 4k for the playoff and Wembley game.

Those games are huge for people and a packed Bloomfield road and bumper Wembley crowd draws the casuals in. Once people attend there's a much higher chance they get the bug and come back.
 
TheLuker said:
There was a big occasion on Wednesday and as a fanbase we only filled about half of the stadium so there is no indication that the demand is there. I don't think that we even sold out for Preston over the last two seasons did we?
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The stand isn’t even up for debate, the club needs it for its infrastructure and future and it’s happening regardless.
 
Of the many pathetic excuses made not to go to the Forest game, price wasn’t one of them… so why would making tickets free change anything?

As has been said above a lot of people just can’t be arsed.
 
As It happens Normunds Malnacs expressed surprise at the low turn out and it was incredibly disappointing

My reply is below which ties in with many of the observations on here


Normunds Malnacs There are a number of reasons for that
1/ Games are generally very dull at the moment - even when we win it’s not particularly exciting as the tactics are far too cautious
2/ Our shocking away form means we are likely going nowhere this season so there’s no buzz
3/ There’s a bit of disconnect following relegation and the decision to reappoint Critchley that’s split the fanbase
4/ Whilst a Prem league team Forest are hardly stellar plus we have played them a lot in recent years inc in last years 3rd Round so no novelty factor
5/ It was bitterly cold
6/ Blackpool fans who live out of area less likely to travel midweek - and demographicly we have a high proportion of out of town fans
7/ It was live on TV

It’s a pity as that second half was superb
 
Returning to the title of the thread I've never understood why so many (nearly all) fans are so dismissive of the EFL Trophy. I've always enjoyed it. In the early rounds it's an opportunity to see young players and fringe players. It's a competition we can enter with a realistic opportunity of winning but most of all I'm a pitchside Blackpool fan that enjoys watching my team play.
I do accept that "enjoy" includes commenting on what I think they are doing badly.
 
Insider said:
Returning to the title of the thread I've never understood why so many (nearly all) fans are so dismissive of the EFL Trophy. I've always enjoyed it. In the early rounds it's an opportunity to see young players and fringe players. It's a competition we can enter with a realistic opportunity of winning but most of all I'm a pitchside Blackpool fan that enjoys watching my team play.
I do accept that "enjoy" includes commenting on what I think they are doing badly.
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It's been very handy for us not only as a way to keep squad players happy, play them into form, back from injury etc but also for some youngsters.

We get paid for the privilege, ok not great amounts but it adds up and helps, the further we go the more helpful it is.

Also what other chance will we as a club have to win a cup competition?
 
JJpool said:
It's been very handy for us not only as a way to keep squad players happy, play them into form, back from injury etc but also for some youngsters.

We get paid for the privilege, ok not great amounts but it adds up and helps, the further we go the more helpful it is.

Also what other chance will we as a club have to win a cup competition?
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Winning a competition like this hardly means anything these days. I doubt many people would go to Wembley.

It's a competition we should be boycotting since the introduction of the under 21 teams. Thankfully most fans have and not just Blackpool fans.
 
A_Tense_Grin said:
Winning a competition like this hardly means anything these days. I doubt many people would go to Wembley.

It's a competition we should be boycotting since the introduction of the under 21 teams. Thankfully most fans have and not just Blackpool fans.
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A cups a cup. I don't know why under 21 sides offends so many, many of them you can knock over easily and beat them.

You also get to see some potential talent for big clubs and it gives them the chance to play real games, which many people moan about English talent etc for the national side. Playing men will help the development of our better English talent.

It is what it is, there's still plenty of legit teams in there to have to beat. People don't have to like those sides being in but don't go to those games. Some of them beat proper League sides so they aren't all shite.

It's worth winning for the money alone and for that alone we should back the club. If people want the club to have the most money it can for transfer windows etc then back it.
 
JJpool said:
A cups a cup. I don't know why under 21 sides offends so many, many of them you can knock over easily and beat them.

You also get to see some potential talent for big clubs and it gives them the chance to play real games, which many people moan about English talent etc for the national side. Playing men will help the development of our better English talent.

It is what it is, there's still plenty of legit teams in there to have to beat. People don't have to like those sides being in but don't go to those games. Some of them beat proper League sides so they aren't all shite.

It's worth winning for the money alone and for that alone we should back the club. If people want the club to have the most money it can for transfer windows etc then back it.
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Helping the youth of Premier League clubs whilst diminishing the integrity of a traditional lower league cup trophy. No thanks.
 
A_Tense_Grin said:
Helping the youth of Premier League clubs whilst diminishing the integrity of a traditional lower league cup trophy. No thanks.
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7 of the last 8 are not youth sides. Only Brighton U21s left.

To be fair, you'd say no thanks to a playoff final on the grounds we should be going up as Champions. Every season.
 
A_Tense_Grin said:
Helping the youth of Premier League clubs whilst diminishing the integrity of a traditional lower league cup trophy. No thanks.
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As Wiz said most are out and the Liverpool game we played was a belter.

To me the club has the best chance at progressing with fans support so the financial side alone is enough to support them.

Added to that it's still a cup.
 
A_Tense_Grin said:
We played Liverpool under 21's, enough said. Sounds like a reserve fixture. That's not football.
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One game. We've played 4 other Football League teams in this competition since and beaten them all. They weren't reserves. Is that football?
 
TwelveAngryMen said:
He's right though
You won't be there and many others won't either
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Maybe he is right but there are many like me who if they lived more local would be there.Strange response from you of all people.
Maybe you should try travelling for midweek games in the middle of winter when you don’t get back home till well after 11 and for some on here much later as I did for the best part of 40+ years then make the same comment.
 
TwelveAngryMen said:
As It happens Normunds Malnacs expressed surprise at the low turn out and it was incredibly disappointing

My reply is below which ties in with many of the observations on here


Normunds Malnacs There are a number of reasons for that
1/ Games are generally very dull at the moment - even when we win it’s not particularly exciting as the tactics are far too cautious
2/ Our shocking away form means we are likely going nowhere this season so there’s no buzz
3/ There’s a bit of disconnect following relegation and the decision to reappoint Critchley that’s split the fanbase
4/ Whilst a Prem league team Forest are hardly stellar plus we have played them a lot in recent years inc in last years 3rd Round so no novelty factor
5/ It was bitterly cold
6/ Blackpool fans who live out of area less likely to travel midweek - and demographicly we have a high proportion of out of town fans
7/ It was live on TV

It’s a pity as that second half was superb
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YES IT WAS. freezing my size eight feet off. BUT seeing it unfold live was something else. And my son agreed.
 
TheLuker said:
On an earlier post you wrote "we also need big games at home, big cup games etc that will fill the stadium and help attract casuals and the next generation."

An FA Cup replay against Prem opposition should've been that game but it wasn't. So who are you limiting the opposition to in order to fill the stadium? City, Liverpool and United? We've seen that we don't often draw them.

Too many of our fans are stuck in 2010 and no longer see an FA Cup replay against two- time European Cup Winners Notts Forest with World Cup winners in their team as a big enough game for them to go and watch.

So yes, apathy but also delusions as to who we are and where we are at as a club.
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You are deluded if you think Forest at home is the glamour tie that brings out the casuals. This is the THIRD season on the bounce we've played Forest, it was the TWENTY FIRST meeting since 2005.

Two time European cup winners, last winning it in 1980. Since then we have played them in the third tier, in the second tier, in the second tier play offs, in the FA Cup two years in a row..

If you think that is remotely comparable to playing United, Liverpool, City, Tottenham, Arsenal then you're off your head. You seem to want an excuse to slag your own fanbase off for some reason. There are no delusions of grandeur because people don't give a fuck about playing Forest, if our fanbase got excited about that prospect it would be bizarre.
 
TangerinePeel said:
You are deluded if you think Forest at home is the glamour tie that brings out the casuals. This is the THIRD season on the bounce we've played Forest, it was the TWENTY FIRST meeting since 2005.

Two time European cup winners, last winning it in 1980. Since then we have played them in the third tier, in the second tier, in the second tier play offs, in the FA Cup two years in a row..

If you think that is remotely comparable to playing United, Liverpool, City, Tottenham, Arsenal then you're off your head. You seem to want an excuse to slag your own fanbase off for some reason. There are no delusions of grandeur because people don't give a fuck about playing Forest, if our fanbase got excited about that prospect it would be bizarre.
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Forest was definitely not a glamour tie.
 
TangerinePeel said:
You are deluded if you think Forest at home is the glamour tie that brings out the casuals. This is the THIRD season on the bounce we've played Forest, it was the TWENTY FIRST meeting since 2005.

Two time European cup winners, last winning it in 1980. Since then we have played them in the third tier, in the second tier, in the second tier play offs, in the FA Cup two years in a row..

If you think that is remotely comparable to playing United, Liverpool, City, Tottenham, Arsenal then you're off your head. You seem to want an excuse to slag your own fanbase off for some reason. There are no delusions of grandeur because people don't give a fuck about playing Forest, if our fanbase got excited about that prospect it would be bizarre.
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There you go with the delusions of grandeur.

We are in the third tier pal, with third tier footballers. Forest are in the Premier League with recent World Cup winners. They will be the best team to play at Bloomfield Road this season.

So, we played a much better team with cheap tickets and still we couldn't turn out for it, selling only about 6000 out of 12000 capacity in the home end

Contrast that with the first tie at Forest where the home ends sold out.

It's embarassing that Forest played a third tier side and sold out but we played a tier 1 side and sold so few. It's sad that the casuals don't see it as a worthwhile tie and it's sad rhat we have so many fickle, expectant and entitled fans.
 
TheLuker said:
There you go with the delusions of grandeur.

We are in the third tier pal, with third tier footballers. Forest are in the Premier League with recent World Cup winners. They will be the best team to play at Bloomfield Road this season.

So, we played a much better team with cheap tickets and still we couldn't turn out for it, selling only about 6000 out of 12000 capacity in the home end

Contrast that with the first tie at Forest where the home ends sold out.

It's embarassing that Forest played a third tier side and sold out but we played a tier 1 side and sold so few. It's sad that the casuals don't see it as a worthwhile tie and it's sad rhat we have so many fickle, expectant and entitled fans.
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The comparison doesn't work,.

We've had a Forest guy on here telling us many don't get to even go to games given their waiting list and given they are in the prem it's the hottest ticket in the city.

That was their 1st fa cap game, coming in at the 3rd round with a great chance to progress. They are buzzing right now.

We're in the 3rd tier and that means crowds fall, just because we went down doesn't mean suddenly everyone is creaming their pants over a team that not long ago went up. Not that exciting, not established or one of the big names and that we played many times.

The market spoke last season and this, infact more went under way worse circumstances than last season.

You need to understand how the casual fanbase works, if you did you'd know there wasn't huge interest, rightly or wrongly, for the tie. I called it way before and many were coming out with silly numbers.
 
JJpool said:
Let's be fair football was far more affordable then and didn't many just sneak in?
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Football was cheaper in absolute terms but do you actually know for certain that it was more affordable?

Maybe households were going without carbolic soap and mangles so that dad could have a few pints and watch Blackpool play Clapton Orient.
 
JJpool said:
The comparison doesn't work,.

We've had a Forest guy on here telling us many don't get to even go to games given their waiting list and given they are in the prem it's the hottest ticket in the city.

That was their 1st fa cap game, coming in at the 3rd round with a great chance to progress. They are buzzing right now.

We're in the 3rd tier and that means crowds fall, just because we went down doesn't mean suddenly everyone is creaming their pants over a team that not long ago went up. Not that exciting, not established or one of the big names and that we played many times.

The market spoke last season and this, infact more went under way worse circumstances than last season.

You need to understand how the casual fanbase works, if you did you'd know there wasn't huge interest, rightly or wrongly, for the tie. I called it way before and many were coming out with silly numbers.
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I think that we're agreeing more than you realise.

I think that we agree that the desire to watch Blackpool v Forest in a cup replay with cheap tickets isn't there.

I put it in part down to delusions of grandeur and I don't think that there is any kind of sustainable fix to permanently get crowds up other than getting into and staying in The Prem. That though will take deep pockets and sooner or later they will get emptied or age creeps up on the benefactor and the club will drift back toward its natural place in the pecking order. Take Wigan, Bolton and Blackburn as examples.

You often propose cheap tickets and "deals" to get the crowds up but it doesn't work, as shown by our home crowd against Forest. Even more bizarrely you propose that when we get a new East Stand we should be running these "deals" of yours and the tickets should be even cheaper. If the tickets in the new stand were cheap how is the stand ever supposed to pay its way?

It's a sad truth that none of us like to contemplate but our natural place in the pecking order based on our crowds is probably around upper-mid table in L1. And before the usual suspects pipe up, that doesn't mean that I lack ambition, it means that I'm realistic about the situation that we are in. Like all fans, though, I would love us through a combination of money, skill and judgement to work our way back up the divisions.
 
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TheLuker said:
Football was cheaper in absolute terms but do you actually know for certain that it was more affordable?

Maybe households were going without carbolic soap and mangles so that dad could have a few pints and watch Blackpool play Clapton Orient.
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Everything was cheaper than these day in comparable terms and many could just sneak in if they wanted to, climb over a wall.
 
JJpool said:
Everything was cheaper than these day in comparable terms and many could just sneak in if they wanted to, climb over a wall.
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Can you back up your "everything was cheaper...." statement with hard evidence or are you just making a lazy assumption?

And I'm sure that many still find ways to sneak in now.
 
TheLuker said:
I think that we're agreeing more than you realise.

I think that we agree that the desire to watch Blackpool v Forest in a cup replay with cheap tickets isn't there.

I put it in part down to delusions of grandeur and I don't think that there is any kind of sustainable fix to permanently get crowds up other than getting into and staying in The Prem. That though will take deep pockets and sooner or later they will get emptied or age creeps up on the benefactor and the club will drift back toward its natural place in the pecking order. Take Wigan, Bolton and Blackburn as examples.

You often propose cheap tickets and "deals" to get the crowds up but it doesn't work, as shown by our home crowd against Forest. Even more bizarrely you propose that when we get a new East Stand we should be running these "deals" of yours and the tickets should be even cheaper. If the tickets in the new stand were cheap how is the stand ever supposed to pay its way?

It's a sad truth that none of us like to contemplate but our natural place in the pecking order based on our crowds is probably around upper-mid table in L1.
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There's no doubt many don't like being in league 1 and think we should return to the championship, that's why theres been expectation to beat sides and one reason why the atmosphere hasn't been great for much of the season. But I don't think that's that unreasonable seeing as we were a championship side and only went down due to mismanagement. We've a really good squad.

We've already proven we can grow, shown by coming down bigger after 2 years in the championship.

Cheaper tickets do work, it's a very simple equation. But there are other factors.

We've already seen in the past who a deal game was used on a weeknight on sky or on a weekend the crowds were bigger. There's a limit some would pay and you only had to speak to casuals or people who know them to know 30 quid wasn't popular and many wouldn't pay it.

Again, you're using 1 game to judge that had many other factors involved. I can guarantee if that game was much higher priced even less would have gone. There's always a price sweet spot.

I don't see how trying to attract more fans is a bad thing, to do that you the to make effort, get people through the door and you have to let people know who don't usually go.

Success will do it but that cannot be guaranteed, so that's why they did the deal games I guess.

It depends how much effort they want up put into growing the fanbase and how quickly. We've seen the nobbers go dirt cheap and it works, look at their crowds before they did, so not sure why you can say price isn't a factor.

Sometimes you have to speculate to accumulate, doing a deal may not make quite as much at times but you'd do it in the hope that filling the stadium would bring in people who get the bug and some will return.

Our natural place based on numbers alone may be upper league 1, but football doesn't work like that, many clubs are basket cases and we also have additional factors in our favour. We win playoffs more often, the fans when at it can really help and get behind us. There's no reason we can't be a club that is in the championship and that's the ambition.

When SS arrived he straight away did a deal and we had a bumper home game, what would be the harm in doing that once the new stand was open to have a celebratory day and try and fill it?
 
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