Bowler charm offensive, Forest Cup win…

A

Adams Kebab

Well-known member
It’s still not happening is it? The connection between the Manager and the fanbase isn’t ever going to be there. For us to survive this season, we need to give ourselves the best chance we can & we need some unity. On both sides, I don’t ever see it being there.

The board fucked up last summer by appointing him, totally unpopular appointment and then we messed up recruitment wise. We all know this & they knew it, that’s why they went on a charm offensive the past 6 weeks. We brought in new recruitment guys, we brought Bowler back made it massive on social media, which lifted the whole fanbase and Club. Signed another couple in Rogers and the defensive midfielder we are crying out for in Trybull (even though he’s said he’s not fit). The win v Forest lifted it more, but at the first sign of a defeat it’s back again.

I’ve defended MA on here, I do think he’s been stitched up, but he doesn’t help himself with his communication sometimes and I also think that he thinks why should he bother with what he says as an element of our fanbase have never given him a chance. That’s not his fault, the board knew that, simple. The reality is, bar for performances I could count on one hand, I’ve not really seen demonstrations of his ability to be a top coach. I thought at Burnley away we had a guy who could identify an issue in game, make changes and counter act it. Granted he’s not had many options players wise to do this, but yesterday was poor tactically after their subs and his stubbornness with 4-3-3 despite us not having the players to fit it for months hasn’t helped.

Last season, we looked poor when Madine was upfront on his own in a 4-3-3, QPR away, Knobbers away we were horrific. He’s brilliant in the air and has qualities but if our wingers are wide he’s far too isolated as not mobile. We seem to be persisting with this.

I wanted MA to work, but even signing Josh Bowler won’t get rid of the needle between him and 3/4 of our fans.

We are in a proper dogfight right now and need everyone pulling in the same direction. To do this we’re going to have to change the Manager. It’s probably unfair, but he was never the right fit and I think even he knows it.

Whether we will or not I don’t know, but whatever happens on Saturday at 3pm every fucker needs to be 100% behind that team even if we fail behind. Biggest game since the play-off final.
 
Adams Kebab said:
It’s still not happening is it? The connection between the Manager and the fanbase isn’t ever going to be there. For us to survive this season, we need to give ourselves the best chance we can & we need some unity. On both sides, I don’t ever see it being there.

The board fucked up last summer by appointing him, totally unpopular appointment and then we messed up recruitment wise. We all know this & they knew it, that’s why they went on a charm offensive the past 6 weeks. We brought in new recruitment guys, we brought Bowler back made it massive on social media, which lifted the whole fanbase and Club. Signed another couple in Rogers and the defensive midfielder we are crying out for in Trybull (even though he’s said he’s not fit). The win v Forest lifted it more, but at the first sign of a defeat it’s back again.

I’ve defended MA on here, I do think he’s been stitched up, but he doesn’t help himself with his communication sometimes and I also think that he thinks why should he bother with what he says as an element of our fanbase have never given him a chance. That’s not his fault, the board knew that, simple. The reality is, bar for performances I could count on one hand, I’ve not really seen demonstrations of his ability to be a top coach. I thought at Burnley away we had a guy who could identify an issue in game, make changes and counter act it. Granted he’s not had many options players wise to do this, but yesterday was poor tactically after their subs and his stubbornness with 4-3-3 despite us not having the players to fit it for months hasn’t helped.

Last season, we looked poor when Madine was upfront on his own in a 4-3-3, QPR away, Knobbers away we were horrific. He’s brilliant in the air and has qualities but if our wingers are wide he’s far too isolated as not mobile. We seem to be persisting with this.

I wanted MA to work, but even signing Josh Bowler won’t get rid of the needle between him and 3/4 of our fans.

We are in a proper dogfight right now and need everyone pulling in the same direction. To do this we’re going to have to change the Manager. It’s probably unfair, but he was never the right fit and I think even he knows it.

Whether we will or not I don’t know, but whatever happens on Saturday at 3pm every fucker needs to be 100% behind that team even if we fail behind. Biggest game since the play-off final.
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I thought the fans did their bit, sounded loud and with a renewed optimism, backing the team. A backing that kind of went against what some clubs in our position would get.

Just s shame they didn't get rewarded with anything at all and a weak and odd team selection, especially given the options he had and poor reading of the game with subs.

Watford were not good. OK still decent players, but not in a good place themselves and didn't really look threatening until we messed up.

We created very little. Had little to no style of play that was effective, played 2 quite good technical midfielders but then hoofed it a lot, he again overlooked having a solid ball wining midfielder in there. Madine up top, he has backed himself into a corner making him captain, Rogers is a winger really not a no 10, Lyons looked good then dropped.

All in all very disappointing and a very disappointing season with him unable to adapt to the players we do have or make the best of injuries etc.
 
Good OP, and probably reflects where I am. I think I’d give him the Huddersfield game to try and kick start things but If it doesn’t come off it’s probably best on all sides to make a change. And I’m not one for calling for managers to be sacked, more often than not it doesn’t address the real issues and it certainly won’t cure all the mistakes made this season at all levels. But we’ve gotta give ourselves the best opportunity to try and stay in this division. I would take issue with change in mood from last week to this, I just think that’s a sad reflection of modern society. There’s not much room for nuance, we’re either brilliant or awful. The manager is a genius or a clown.
Agree with the other point about our fan base being delusional, correct if this site is reflective of the majority of fans. Far too many championship manager wannabes who love pointing out the managers mistakes with the benefit of hindsight.
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
How do you know he doesn't want to be here?

Have you spoken to him and asked him, I would also say that someone who has fought and beat cancer isn't a loser
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Let’s be honest Phil, he probably thinks lots of our fans are tools and he’d have a point.

I don’t think he wants to be liked anymore & at the moment in the position we are in, it’s not helping.
 
Adams Kebab said:
Let’s be honest Phil, he probably thinks lots of our fans are tools and he’d have a point.

I don’t think he wants to be liked anymore & at the moment in the position we are in, it’s not helping.
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I honestly thought he was going to be sacked after Wigan

That was the day he lost the fans, even though I still say that defeat wasn't his fault

It was a bizarre appointment in the first place but now he's in the job I don't understand the hatred towards him, it's completely counter productive
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
I honestly thought he was going to be sacked after Wigan

That was the day he lost the fans, even though I still say that defeat wasn't his fault

It was a bizarre appointment in the first place but now he's in the job I don't understand the hatred towards him, it's completely counter productive
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It was always going to be like it in the end. Shouldn’t be, but that’s football fans.

They’ve been naive to think otherwise and even the headmasters letter from SS didn’t change anyone’s views.
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
I honestly thought he was going to be sacked after Wigan

That was the day he lost the fans, even though I still say that defeat wasn't his fault

It was a bizarre appointment in the first place but now he's in the job I don't understand the hatred towards him, it's completely counter productive
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Personally I think there's too many shows of a lack of discipline under him that can only eventually fall back at his door.

Yes it's individual players making mistakes but so too is it when players miss chances, let goals in etc.

Players make more mistakes when left more exposed and also aren't playing with confidence. It's also down to good coaching that eliminates some of those mistakes.

As for Wigan another silly sending off ruined the game and as it went on we became more and more tired and yet no changes made. Despite the manager bemoaning the lack of options he had to him in the games before. Early season he seemed to read things well and react, but not so recently.

There's no guarantee making changes would have worked vs Wigan but for me fresh players with energy in wide positions and up front have a better chance of closing down crosses etc than knackered ones.

But yes a bizarre appointment, the hatred is bizarre too but the board knew he wasn't liked and ignored it. Either misunderstanding or underestimating how important us all being pulling in the same direction is, the feelgood factor etc.
 
Adams Kebab said:
I thought at Burnley away we had a guy who could identify an issue in game, make changes and counter act it. Granted he’s not had many options players wise to do this
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Our line up at Burnley had Connolly and Dougall playing as a two in a 4231 formation! It was the Critch thing before Appt starting introducing his midfield vacuum.

Gabriel Marv Williams Thompson
.....Connolly Dougall
Lavery Bowler Corbeanu
.............Yates

Spot the Dougall. 😉

He has the players at his disposal but he's dismantled it.
 
voyeur said:
Our line up at Burnley had Connolly and Dougall playing as a two in a 4231 formation! It was the Critch thing before Appt starting introducing his midfield vacuum.

Gabriel Marv Williams Thompson
.....Connolly Dougall
Lavery Bowler Corbeanu
.............Yates

Spot the Dougall. 😉

He has the players at his disposal but he's dismantled it.
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I remember Dougall giving the ball away early doors on the edge of our box in that game too 🤪

Madine on for Theo 65 mins, then a triple change at 3-2 down.

I don’t think he’d do that now, weird one.
 
voyeur said:
Our line up at Burnley had Connolly and Dougall playing as a two in a 4231 formation! It was the Critch thing before Appt starting introducing his midfield vacuum.

Gabriel Marv Williams Thompson
.....Connolly Dougall
Lavery Bowler Corbeanu
.............Yates

Spot the Dougall. 😉

He has the players at his disposal but he's dismantled it.
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And the vacuum sucks. Another vote here for Connolly/Dougal, or Trybull/Dougal at the base of midfield.
 
Adams Kebab said:
I remember Dougall giving the ball away early doors on the edge of our box in that game too 🤪

Madine on for Theo 65 mins, then a triple change at 3-2 down.

I don’t think he’d do that now, weird one.
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Thing is, if Dougal loses the ball he breaks his neck trying to win it back.
 
There was a feeling that Critchley had fallen out with some players and I sense the same feeling with MA.
MA comes across as a robust, disciplinarian - the Fergie type of manager (although the on field discipline of his players is poor). That's not a bad thing, but it is, if it adversely affects team selection, resulting in any of our better players sitting on the bench / in the stands.
I'm sure MA will say I'm wrong, and that his team selection depends upon the opposition & tactics.
 
KingZobo said:
Why does a managers popularity with fans have anything to do with his ability to do the job? Our fan base is totally delusional.
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Negativity breeds negativity and that will eventually affect the performances on the pitch. Otherwise there'd be no point in the crowd turning up to show their support.
 
Adams Kebab said:
I remember Dougall giving the ball away early doors on the edge of our box in that game too 🤪

Madine on for Theo 65 mins, then a triple change at 3-2 down.

I don’t think he’d do that now, weird one.
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It was a much better set-up given what we've got abd sgar we play against and Appy has stuck with Carey and Patino through a long spell of very low returns.
 
He didn't stick with the same set up at Burnley though. We ended that game playing essentially 424. (or near as damn it once Carey was sent off)

Citing a starting line up that had us 3-1 down as evidence is a bit odd. The Burnley come back was - if anything - evidence of NOT setting up with two holders and instead, playing brakes off attacking style cos that was what brought us back into that game.

Where I'm struggling is that we don't seem to commit to that either.
 
td53 said:
He didn't stick with the same set up at Burnley though. We ended that game playing essentially 424. (or near as damn it once Carey was sent off)

Citing a starting line up that had us 3-1 down as evidence is a bit odd. The Burnley come back was - if anything - evidence of NOT setting up with two holders and instead, playing brakes off attacking style cos that was what brought us back into that game.

Where I'm struggling is that we don't seem to commit to that either.
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But Connolly and Dougall played the full 90 is the point. In midfield.

There's none so blind... 😉
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
I honestly thought he was going to be sacked after Wigan

That was the day he lost the fans, even though I still say that defeat wasn't his fault

It was a bizarre appointment in the first place but now he's in the job I don't understand the hatred towards him, it's completely counter productive
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I thought the same Phil and if we were going to pot him, that seemed to be the time to do it.
In all honesty I'm beginning to doubt if he knows how to turn things around, he persists with a formation that just doesn't work, we struggle with a lone striker at the best of times and Madine just isn't mobile enough to do it.
I still feel that we need to see more intent from the board in this window, ok the Bowler return is great news, but it's just a loan. Rogers, another loan would have been here in the summer if he hadn't been injured and Trybull, free from the German second division having not played recently.
Is that the sum total of backing we are going to see, this is all about survival now and it's about time there was some demonstration of intent.
 
Adams Kebab said:
They didn’t though. Connolly went right back on 75 mins when Gabriel got taken off.
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Ok out of necessity after 75. Changes nowt. We had a system that was working better than what we've seen for ages and Appleton refuses to use those players or put anyone in front of the defence and we get played through time and time again.

We also won at Huddersfield eith Connolly and Dougall in midfield. And at QPR with Dougall. At Coventry with Dougall. Preston Dougall and Bridcutt. Common theme. We've won 6 games all season. Dougall played in 4 of them.
 
td53 said:
He didn't stick with the same set up at Burnley though. We ended that game playing essentially 424. (or near as damn it once Carey was sent off)

Citing a starting line up that had us 3-1 down as evidence is a bit odd. The Burnley come back was - if anything - evidence of NOT setting up with two holders and instead, playing brakes off attacking style cos that was what brought us back into that game.

Where I'm struggling is that we don't seem to commit to that either.
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The Burnley goals had little to do with who we played in midfield.

Goal 1 a long ball from the defence to their forward then a wonder striker from distance. Not a lot you can do.

Goal 2 was another ball from the back, over the top to one of their strikers or winger. Who gets the better of Gabriel and scores.

Goal 3 a bit of passing in the middle and a ball out towards the left side and lavery cuts it out, Gabriel isn't set and falls over and they score again. Should jave been cut out.

They didn't cut through us to score them they went around it and more times then not the goals wouldn't have happened.

I can't remember exactly now but I think we pushed up more and pressed better 2nd half, so more a mindset thing.

Plus Burnley are proving they are probably the best side ok the league, we found it tough 1st half but 2nd we got the better of them.
 
voyeur said:
Ok out of necessity after 75. Changes nowt. We had a system that was working better than what we've seen for ages and Appleton refuses to use those players or put anyone in front of the defence and we get played through time and time again.

We also won at Huddersfield eith Connolly and Dougall in midfield. And at QPR with Dougall. At Coventry with Dougall. Preston Dougall and Bridcutt. Common theme. We've won 6 games all season. Dougall played in 4 of them.
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Aye but at QPR he got caught out on the half turn at the edge of his box but other than that he managed to hold the midfield together despite the loss of Fiorini and Patino through injuries for the full 90mins in a great away win
 
Adams Kebab said:
I remember Dougall giving the ball away early doors on the edge of our box in that game too 🤪

Madine on for Theo 65 mins, then a triple change at 3-2 down.

I don’t think he’d do that now, weird one.
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It is a weird one, during that Burnley away period he seemed to be able to make changes and I recall people commenting on how it was refreshing after Critchleys unwillingness to do so early enough.

The wheels have fallen off, his time is up for me.
 
Adams Kebab said:
Whether we will or not I don’t know, but whatever happens on Saturday at 3pm every fucker needs to be 100% behind that team even if we fail behind.
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No point if we fall behind because Appleton's philosophy is if you don't score first you might as well give up!
 
Managers get stuck in a rut of the same old players and he has had half a season of no other options other than to do what he has done player wise. Add on a sh1te run of no wins and the mindset of players change from we play to win to we play not to lose so then sit back and don't pass the ball instead we get it away with a long ball to that Lump up front . I very much doubt a MA fresh in would pick the same team as he picked against Watford with Patino and Carey in midfield. He has always had a def mid ie Bridcutt at Lincoln and brought him here too when it was obvious Stewart wasnt coming back in. I think it's safe to assume he ain't going anywhere currently so I just hope he clears his head of all the sh1te and negativity, looks at it fresh and picks a team to go out there and play. If he does that I'm fine with whatever comes of it.
 
Larryknows said:
Managers get stuck in a rut of the same old players and he has had half a season of no other options other than to do what he has done player wise. Add on a sh1te run of no wins and the mindset of players change from we play to win to we play not to lose so then sit back and don't pass the ball instead we get it away with a long ball to that Lump up front . I very much doubt a MA fresh in would pick the same team as he picked against Watford with Patino and Carey in midfield. He has always had a def mid ie Bridcutt at Lincoln and brought him here too when it was obvious Stewart wasnt coming back in. I think it's safe to assume he ain't going anywhere currently so I just hope he clears his head of all the sh1te and negativity, looks at it fresh and picks a team to go out there and play. If he does that I'm fine with whatever comes of it.
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Was just talking about this with someone.

I think Appleton has changed. Not sure whether he’s gone safer, scared? Negative? Worried about the reaction? Or just lost his way?

But we made numerous changes at half-time in the games at the start of the season, not scared to make bold, positive or tactical changes. Now he’s holding back it seems.

Bizarre cos I wouldn’t have him down at being bothered by fan reaction, but it has to have had an impact. Proper shit behaviour from some of our fans. Or, maybe he’s just drowning at Championship level and with his lack of options.
 
We all have our opinions, but none of really know the truth.

To me, I can't understand why a head coach of a professional club would have a midfield 3 where none of the 3 can make a tackle. It defies all basic football logic. I get that he may not rate KD, because he gives the ball away too much, but until he's got a fit and capable replacement in that role then surely you make do with what you have?

The other issue comes around the relentless negativity. Whether it's linked to his own personality, fear of failure or just a belief that his way is the best way, we played 90 mins of football on Saturday where the tactic appeared to be 'wait for the opposition to make a mistake'. Fine if we're in the cup against an obviously better side, but in the league we're going to have to make our own running sooner or later. I just don't see MA as the man to make that happen.
 
straightatthewall said:
To me, I can't understand why a head coach of a professional club would have a midfield 3 where none of the 3 can make a tackle. It defies all basic football logic. I get that he may not rate KD, because he gives the ball away too much, but until he's got a fit and capable replacement in that role then surely you make do with what you have?
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Just seen this from MA after the game at the weekend.

When asked if Trybull was even considered for a start, Appleton said: “Not really. He’s not played for a while. We want to get a full week’s training into him before we consider that.
“He might have been an option from the bench if we went a goal up and we were trying to protect to see the game out. But once they went a goal ahead it wasn’t really going to be an option.
“He’s had three or four really good days of training but he needs a full week of that before he’s close enough to start.”

Really struggling with his logic there 😵‍💫 playing a defensive midfielder can change the shape of your midfield at any point in a game, losing or not. Would give us a much better platform to attack.
 
Yarmouth Seasider said:
I thought the same Phil and if we were going to pot him, that seemed to be the time to do it.
In all honesty I'm beginning to doubt if he knows how to turn things around, he persists with a formation that just doesn't work, we struggle with a lone striker at the best of times and Madine just isn't mobile enough to do it.
I still feel that we need to see more intent from the board in this window, ok the Bowler return is great news, but it's just a loan. Rogers, another loan would have been here in the summer if he hadn't been injured and Trybull, free from the German second division having not played recently.
Is that the sum total of backing we are going to see, this is all about survival now and it's about time there was some demonstration of intent.
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Agree on this. Bowler was a no brainer, Rogers decent signing but its only a loan and Trybull remains to be seen. Lets see some real intent from the board in the remaining transfer window to give us a fighting chance at staying up.
 
Adams Kebab said:
Just seen this from MA after the game at the weekend.

When asked if Trybull was even considered for a start, Appleton said: “Not really. He’s not played for a while. We want to get a full week’s training into him before we consider that.
“He might have been an option from the bench if we went a goal up and we were trying to protect to see the game out. But once they went a goal ahead it wasn’t really going to be an option.
“He’s had three or four really good days of training but he needs a full week of that before he’s close enough to start.”

Really struggling with his logic there 😵‍💫 playing a defensive midfielder can change the shape of your midfield at any point in a game, losing or not. Would give us a much better platform to attack.
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And that's why he's not getting as much support as he (arguably) deserves given the lack of backing. To shoehorn in the point, if you don't rate either of your keepers, you still play one of the 2 until you have a better option available.
 
Adams Kebab said:
Last season, we looked poor when Madine was upfront on his own in a 4-3-3, QPR away, Knobbers away we were horrific. He’s brilliant in the air and has qualities but if our wingers are wide he’s far too isolated as not mobile. We seem to be persisting with this.
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And this is exactly what happened on Saturday. Madine battled and won /held up quite a few balls but was made to look poor as he lost a lot of the second balls as there was no assistance for him to lay it off to. Having said that, I wouldn't have started him as Yates is more mobile and our play would have naturally been different if he had started.
 
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