Bullying

Wizaard

Wizaard

Well-known member
Author of the report who said Priti Patel bullied staff has resigned after Boris ignored the recommendations and rules she hasn't broke the Ministerial Code.

What do you have to do as a minister in this Government to be forced to resign?
 
Wizaard said:
Author of the report who said Priti Patel bullied staff has resigned after Boris ignored the recommendations and rules she hasn't broke the Ministerial Code.

What do you have to do as a minister in this Government to be forced to resign?
Click to expand...
No real surprise that Boris is backing her. She’d most likely have to kill a fellow Conservative, before he took his hands out of his pockets.
 
TangerineAde said:
No real surprise that Boris is backing her. She’d most likely have to kill a fellow Conservative, before he took his hands out of his pockets.
Click to expand...

You are right of course that it is no surprise, but it again illustrates the moral vacuum at the heart of this government, which unfortunately we are growing to accept without the proper indignation it should elicit.

It is easy to view this as just another rung on the ladder of deceit and debasement that is a staple of Johnson`s tenure in office, but it is worryingly amoral, and undermines the integrity and standards expected of high office.

Whatever happened to noblesse oblige?
 
It's sadly no surprise. I've seen managers get away with bullying staff when I worked in the public sector, and despite numerous people complaining, nothing happened. Same thing happened with the bullying of Jewish Labour party members. Nothing happened and the perpetrators got away with it. I don't know a thing about Priti Patel personally, but it wouldn't surprise me. She does give that impression
It would seem bullying is acceptable at all levels of government and public service.
 
RUSTY_2_STANDS said:
It's sadly no surprise. I've seen managers get away with bullying staff when I worked in the public sector, and despite numerous people complaining, nothing happened. Same thing happened with the bullying of Jewish Labour party members. Nothing happened and the perpetrators got away with it. I don't know a thing about Priti Patel personally, but it wouldn't surprise me. She does give that impression
It would seem bullying is acceptable at all levels of government and public service.
Click to expand...
We get monthly sessions on bullying, harassment and equality etc. Do what I say, not what I do.
 
spudgun said:
You are right of course that it is no surprise, but it again illustrates the moral vacuum at the heart of this government, which unfortunately we are growing to accept without the proper indignation it should elicit.

It is easy to view this as just another rung on the ladder of deceit and debasement that is a staple of Johnson`s tenure in office, but it is worryingly amoral, and undermines the integrity and standards expected of high office.

Whatever happened to noblesse oblige?
Click to expand...
Absolutely spot on. We are "outsiders" merely observing "proven" bullying behaviour being ignored by the leader of our country...it will serve to give the "green light" to ramp up similar behaviour in many workplaces across Britain. That, for me, is the biggest issue here. (Although I also feel for all those who have been a victim of Patel's actions...I guess that at least they have the satisfaction of having been proved right, and the moral high ground that comes with it).
 
Mr Tangerine Man said:
I would imagine that "Bullying" is de rigueur by Public schoolboys, thefore acceptable to Boris. There really is only one person that wants sacking in this government. On second thought just sack the fuckin' lot.
Click to expand...
The only people who can sack him are the electorate. We're not going to get the opportunity for some time.
 
BlackpoolWolves said:
Absolutely spot on. We are "outsiders" merely observing "proven" bullying behaviour being ignored by the leader of our country...it will serve to give the "green light" to ramp up similar behaviour in many workplaces across Britain. That, for me, is the biggest issue here. (Although I also feel for all those who have been a victim of Patel's actions...I guess that at least they have the satisfaction of having been proved right, and the moral high ground that comes with it).
Click to expand...
Previous Perm Sec has come out and said Priti is talking nonsense and she was told her behaviour was unacceptable.

In any case, how does a well educated woman in a position of power turn out to be unaware that swearing and shouting at junior staff is inappropriate behaviour?
 
Unless you were party to the alleged bullying, you cannot gauge how serious this was. I am not sure how many civil servants would survive in the Private sector if being shouted at upsets them so much.
 
tangysider said:
Unless you were party to the alleged bullying, you cannot gauge how serious this was. I am not sure how many civil servants would survive in the Private sector if being shouted at upsets them so much.
Click to expand...
It's the third Department where she's done this. It's not alleged, it's proven.
Finally, if shouting at people is the modus operandi of the private sector no wonder they're all going to the wall. Nothing to do with covid. I don't think that's the case for a moment.
 
tangysider said:
Unless you were party to the alleged bullying, you cannot gauge how serious this was. I am not sure how many civil servants would survive in the Private sector if being shouted at upsets them so much.
Click to expand...
Does anyone actually get shouted at at work and tolerate it? Even the armed forces have toned down the shouting these days. I've worked in plenty of different places and can't remember anyone shouting at me.
I know the world has gone a bit soft but aggressively shouting at staff/colleagues is not going to get the best results is it?
 
I would be amazed if anyone in Private sector had never been shouted at.
She is hardly intimidating at a little over 5 ft. I am sure that people could stand up to her or tower over her. Was she trying to raise the efficiency in an under performing department and being stymied?
 
tangysider said:
I would be amazed if anyone in Private sector had never been shouted at.
She is hardly intimidating at a little over 5 ft. I am sure that people could stand up to her or tower over her. Was she trying to raise the efficiency in an under performing department and being stymied?
Click to expand...
She probably wasn't threatening to ** them, more likely she was going to sack them.
 
gjr69 said:
Does anyone actually get shouted at at work and tolerate it? Even the armed forces have toned down the shouting these days. I've worked in plenty of different places and can't remember anyone shouting at me.
I know the world has gone a bit soft but aggressively shouting at staff/colleagues is not going to get the best results is it?
Click to expand...
People do tolerate it through fear Not physical fear. Fear of job loss and further bullying and intimidation.. That makes it even more totally unacceptable. Whatever sector you work in.
 
Lala said:
People do tolerate it through fear Not physical fear. Fear of job loss and further bullying and intimidation.. That makes it even more totally unacceptable. Whatever sector you work in.
Click to expand...

I was just about to like your post Lala as I thought I totally agreed with it.
Then it occurred to me that if those lazy so and so’s in tangerine have been idling in the first half at Peterborough tomorrow I would probably want them to face the hairdryer treatment and metaphorical wrath of Ferguson (Alex not Darren) at half-time.
So perhaps not every sector on every occasion.
 
glasshalffull said:
I was just about to like your post Lala as I thought I totally agreed with it.
Then it occurred to me that if those lazy so and so’s in tangerine have been idling in the first half at Peterborough tomorrow I would probably want them to face the hairdryer treatment and metaphorical wrath of Ferguson (Alex not Darren) at half-time.
So perhaps not every sector on every occasion.
Click to expand...
I think you will find that the Ferguson/Keane style of encouragement is also on the decline in football, but I know what you mean.
 
Tangojoe said:
Shouting isn't the modus operandi of the private sector and they're not all going to the wall.
Click to expand...
Do Foremen do anything but shout a lot?
I would rather have been shouted at than being metaphorically stabbed in the back by someone I thought I had no issue with.
 
You can deal with someone upfront and without stabbing them in the back without bullying, intimidation or swearing at them.
And that’s assuming they are at fault and the manager is not just a stressed out incompetent manager that can’t deal with their own stress levels.
 
tangysider said:
I would be amazed if anyone in Private sector had never been shouted at.
She is hardly intimidating at a little over 5 ft. I am sure that people could stand up to her or tower over her. Was she trying to raise the efficiency in an under performing department and being stymied?
Click to expand...
Intimidation comes from the power she wields, as you probably well know.

Hitler wasn't tall and he shouted a lot.
 
tangysider said:
Unless you were party to the alleged bullying, you cannot gauge how serious this was. I am not sure how many civil servants would survive in the Private sector if being shouted at upsets them so much.
Click to expand...

We are of course only hearing one side of the story, and only a part of that as well, what we don't know is what prompted this loss of temper although one presumes it was some kind of f*** up with the potential to cause enormous embarassment for the government.

Finally, how long do we think someone would last in the private sector if he managed to drive the CEO into shouting and swearing at him?
 
Never been bullied at work personally, but a mate of mine was incessantly, and just the thought of going into work every day filled him with dread, and he was in a high up position in management himself! Bullying can be the worse kind of mental torment and generally carried out by a person with their own inadequacies. Patel has to go, but alas Boris will fail to do the right thing yet again! Pathetic really.
 
Levi501 said:
Never been bullied at work personally, but a mate of mine was incessantly, and just the thought of going into work every day filled him with dread, and he was in a high up position in management himself! Bullying can be the worse kind of mental torment and generally carried out by a person with their own inadequacies. Patel has to go, but alas Boris will fail to do the right thing yet again! Pathetic really.
Click to expand...
Spot on 👍
 
Lost Seasider said:
We are of course only hearing one side of the story, and only a part of that as well, what we don't know is what prompted this loss of temper although one presumes it was some kind of f*** up with the potential to cause enormous embarassment for the government.

Finally, how long do we think someone would last in the private sector if he managed to drive the CEO into shouting and swearing at him?
Click to expand...
Another Tory trying to justify unacceptable behaviour. Swearing at junior staff is unacceptable regardless.

What part of that is hard to understand?

Some legal precedents for you:

There have been a number of circumstances where the Courts have emphasised that employers or supervisors who swear at employees do so at their own peril. Some well-known cases include:
  • A director who said of his secretary that she was an “intolerable bitch on a Monday morning” was held to have constructively dismissed her.
  • Cantor Fitzgerald International failed in an argument that the fact that it paid high salaries to employees in the City of London could justify the use of swearing and obscenities. The Court also held in that the fact the employee himself had used foul language in the past in another context did not deprive him of the right to claim he had been constructively dismissed.
  • When St Helens Rugby League Head Coach Ian Millward was sacked in May 2005, the employment law consequences of swearing were brought to the fore. Millward was dismissed on the grounds of gross misconduct after being removed for verbally abusing a press officer and media officer.

Consequences of employees swearing at employers​

When an employee uses foul and abusive language in the workplace against his boss, particularly in circumstances where an employee is refusing to carry out a reasonable order, this has been held to justify instant dismissal.
Similarly, when an employee swears in order to intimidate or humiliate a more junior employee, this is likely to expose an employer to a claim in the Employment Tribunal and can also justify the instant dismissal of the employee who used such language.
There has been one case, however, where an Employment Tribunal held that where an employee used abusive language in a sudden explosion of temper and under the influence of drink, it was unfair to dismiss that employee without first giving him the opportunity to apologise.

Workplace policies to protect employees and employers​

We recommend that employers implement appropriate bullying and harassment policies, where the boundaries and management of workplace behaviour are carefully defined. With the correct policies in place, people can fully understand what is prohibited in the workplace and the consequences of going against rules and regulations.
Through taking an appropriate stance on swearing in the workplace, employers can prevent unwanted workplace behaviour and also protect their business from possible Employment Tribunals.
 
Can’t abide bullies. Cowardly cruel behaviour usually brought on by their own incompetence or need for a self-esteem boost at the cost of someone else’s.
And taking on a bully is extremely stressful at a time when you’re already being harassed, and that’s why many tend to walk away or accept it with consequences.
 
Wizaard said:
Intimidation comes from the power she wields, as you probably well know.

Hitler wasn't tall and he shouted a lot.
Click to expand...
I don't think she is in the same ballpark as Hitler, and suspect not many civil servants have been sacked by ministers.
My brother worked in civil service and I wish people had shouted at him more rather than allow him to play the system,. Do very little work, eventually after nearly 20 years of which at least 8 years he contributed nothing he was paid off not sacked.
He 'retired' in his 40's with no intention of working again.
I also realise there are also a lot of very good and conscientious people in the civil service but he should have been given a hard time rather than empathy and gentle talking to
 
tangysider said:
I don't think she is in the same ballpark as Hitler, and suspect not many civil servants have been sacked by ministers.
My brother worked in civil service and I wish people had shouted at him more rather than allow him to play the system,. Do very little work, eventually after nearly 20 years of which at least 8 years he contributed nothing he was paid off not sacked.
He 'retired' in his 40's with no intention of working again.
I also realise there are also a lot of very good and conscientious people in the civil service but he should have been given a hard time rather than empathy and gentle talking to
Click to expand...
Why does the rare exception get quoted as the norm? Present day civil servants are facing unprecedented volumes of claims to employment and health benefits as a result of COVID and are providing a great service despite decades of under resourcing and investment plus sniping from all and sundry.
 
Whilst I do think there’s an over-abundance of complete fannys/wet wipes these days, you can’t be carrying on like Patel.

She’s always struck me as a pretty hard faced type and so I suppose it’s not hard to imagine how she operates in the workplace.
 
tangysider said:
I don't think she is in the same ballpark as Hitler, and suspect not many civil servants have been sacked by ministers.
My brother worked in civil service and I wish people had shouted at him more rather than allow him to play the system,. Do very little work, eventually after nearly 20 years of which at least 8 years he contributed nothing he was paid off not sacked.
He 'retired' in his 40's with no intention of working again.
I also realise there are also a lot of very good and conscientious people in the civil service but he should have been given a hard time rather than empathy and gentle talking to
Click to expand...
Could tell you very similar stories about people who work at BAE.

Your brother didn't need to be shouted and screamed at, he should have been made aware of his poor performance, given a chance to rectify it and failing that had his contract terminated.

No place for bullying behaviour anywhere, unless I've got it wrong there has been an enquiry and she has been found guilty this is beyond the allegation stage.
 
tangysider said:
I don't think she is in the same ballpark as Hitler, and suspect not many civil servants have been sacked by ministers.
My brother worked in civil service and I wish people had shouted at him more rather than allow him to play the system,. Do very little work, eventually after nearly 20 years of which at least 8 years he contributed nothing he was paid off not sacked.
He 'retired' in his 40's with no intention of working again.
I also realise there are also a lot of very good and conscientious people in the civil service but he should have been given a hard time rather than empathy and gentle talking to
Click to expand...
And that’s when official inefficiency measures should apply.
Nobody is saying all employees are perfect or shouldn’t be disciplined if necessary. But there are professional channels to adhere to.
Bullying is always inadequate and never the appropriate or acceptable response.
 

Horror bag of a women. Devoid of sympathy and intelligence, she will appeal to a certain sort of voter. How on earth someone with such limited ability reached the position of home Secretary is staggering until I realise who the PM is. That said I don't think Johnson is a nasty piece of work like Patel is.
 
Lala said:
And that’s when official inefficiency measures should apply.
Nobody is saying all employees are perfect or shouldn’t be disciplined if necessary. But there are professional channels to adhere to.
Bullying is always inadequate and never the appropriate or acceptable response.
Click to expand...
But isn't bullying itself a subjective judgement?
If someone is late in work do you initiate disciplinary processes or have a stern word off the record, is that bullying?
 
tangysider said:
I would be amazed if anyone in Private sector had never been shouted at.
She is hardly intimidating at a little over 5 ft. I am sure that people could stand up to her or tower over her. Was she trying to raise the efficiency in an under performing department and being stymied?
Click to expand...
So Tangy, you're a career civil servant with an eye on the very top. You're in the Minister's office so you're doing well. You're married with a couple of kids and a mortgage the size of the national debt. Are you going to look her in the face and tell her to F*** off?
 
tangysider said:
But isn't bullying itself a subjective judgement?
If someone is late in work do you initiate disciplinary processes or have a stern word off the record, is that bullying?
Click to expand...
A word off the record is more of a verbal warning, which often constitutes many first line inefficiency measures.
It’s not swearing and shouting and intimidating someone.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top