Care home workers

Wizaard

Wizaard

Well-known member
Mandatory to have had the jabs if you're in a front line role.

Apparently around 83% have had the necessary jabs.

16 weeks to get the jabs or change roles.

Quite right too, for those looking after vulnerable groups, or totalitarian state gone mad?
 
Wizaard said:
Mandatory to have had the jabs if you're in a front line role.

Apparently around 83% have had the necessary jabs.

16 weeks to get the jabs or change roles.

Quite right too, for those looking after vulnerable groups, or totalitarian state gone mad?
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100% right for me.

All Hospital staff should be made to do the same.

I mean working with the sick/old/vulnerable it’s common sense to me.
 
As low as 70% in certain areas. Spokesman for care sector said it was cultural. What does that mean?

Same as doctors having to have Hep B inoculation to continue in specific roles.
 
Given all the deaths we had in care homes earlier in the pandemic I’am just surprised the Government didn’t bring the ruling in earlier.
 
In total agreement with this. Workers can’t be putting the elderly, ill and vulnerable patients at risk.
should have made mandatory from the beginning of the vaccine rollout.
 
Not entirely clear of my own view on this.

Care Home workers are generally poorly paid, and most care homes have staff shortages. Also, it is important to have vulnerable people ( in a social sense) with those around them reflecting their community. Binning staff because they do not have a medical treatment may actually lead to further problems. It is basically saying that the care home residents need over rides any staff rights.

If I was the Health Secretary, I would be asking why certain groups of our citizens are so afraid / misinformed / concerned about the vaccine, and putting some of the Billions wasted on Track and Trace to better educational use. persuade staff and the communities it is a good thing, rather than threaten their livelihood.

BTW, I write this with a very close relative in a care home for the last three years, and we have lived though the nightmare of the last 16 months waiting for phone calls, so it is real for us.
 
Tangerinemoss said:
Not entirely clear of my own view on this.

Care Home workers are generally poorly paid, and most care homes have staff shortages. Also, it is important to have vulnerable people ( in a social sense) with those around them reflecting their community. Binning staff because they do not have a medical treatment may actually lead to further problems. It is basically saying that the care home residents need over rides any staff rights.

If I was the Health Secretary, I would be asking why certain groups of our citizens are so afraid / misinformed / concerned about the vaccine, and putting some of the Billions wasted on Track and Trace to better educational use. persuade staff and the communities it is a good thing, rather than threaten their livelihood.

BTW, I write this with a very close relative in a care home for the last three years, and we have lived though the nightmare of the last 16 months waiting for phone calls, so it is real for us.
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It's no different than doctors having the Hepatitis jab. Patient rights coming before the staff's.
 
I feel uncomfortable about this.
I’m not an anti- vaxxer, I’ve had mine and ideally would want everyone to have theirs, but forcing someone to have it doesn’t sit right with me.
Using the example of ‘some’ hospital staff needing certain injections to work in certain departments isn’t relevant - that’s a choice for employees wishing to move departments, if they don’t want the job they don’t apply for it.
Will all care home residents have to have it, to protect the staff?
Don’t forget, we’re talking about the same carers who worked through the pandemic when the virus was ripping through care homes, often without correct PPE, sometimes having to make do with home made masks and aprons. They were feted as heroes.
Scientists might be able to say with 99.9999% certainty that the vaccines are safe, but we don’t really know for sure, do we? Taking a vaccine should be personal choice, but in the current climate lots will have it against their true will due to financial fears.
What next? Anyone who comes into contact with the public at work? Shopkeepers, taxi drivers, bar staff, hoteliers…….

Edit to add : the private care system is on its arse through staff shortages, they can’t afford to lose many more employees.
 
Basic Health And Safety. The care home has to do everything reasonable and practicable to protect it's workers, the residents of their home and anybody else who could be affected by their lack of control if it were the case.
 
Wizaard said:
twIt's no different than doctors having the Hepatitis jab. Patient rights coming before the staff's.
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The reason I am not convinced by that argument is that Matt Hancock used that line !!!!! Why is it not compulsory for medical staff to have the flu vaccine, HPV, MMR, etc?

Patients and staff rights are equal, btw.
 
Curryman said:
Basic Health And Safety. The care home has to do everything reasonable and practicable to protect it's workers, the residents of their home and anybody else who could be affected by their lack of control if it were the case.
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How far do you go with that? As a retail worker, should my employer be insisting on my colleagues all being vaccinated?

It isn't compulsory in the rest of the NHS, why not? If I was prone to conspiracy theories, which obviously I'm not, I might think they are trying to deflect attention from the total SNAFU that was the the Care sector March 2020, who did what, who said what.
 
Curryman said:
Basic Health And Safety. The care home has to do everything reasonable and practicable to protect it's workers, the residents of their home and anybody else who could be affected by their lack of control if it were the case.
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Isn’t that the case for all employers?
 
Wizaard said:
It's no different than doctors having the Hepatitis jab. Patient rights coming before the staff's.
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NHS staff need to have the Hep jabs if they work in a department that is at risk.
If they don’t want the jab, they don’t apply to work in those departments.
They don’t get fired.
 
I thought it was already compulsory. My family members who work in care homes and with kids had them months ago and have regular tests to back them up.
 
I just don’t agree that this is mandatory I’m afraid. The vaccine mostly protects you from infection. Where will this shite end.
 
People keep saying the vaccines are safe...but that's not true. People are dying from being vaccinated. I know its low amounts but I can't envision a free society where people are forced to have a medicine that could kill them if they are unlucky to protect them against something due to age and health they are in no danger from

If the residents are all vaccinated the staff don't need to be if they choose not to
 
Ragnarok said:
People keep saying the vaccines are safe...but that's not true. People are dying from being vaccinated. I know its low amounts but I can't envision a free society where people are forced to have a medicine that could kill them if they are unlucky to protect them against something due to age and health they are in no danger from

If the residents are all vaccinated the staff don't need to be if they choose not to
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Very, very few fatalities among the young and healthy from the vaccine.

Very, very few fatalities among the young and healthy from the virus.

Should young and healthy people be forced to be vaccinated ? Of course not.

Should young and healthy people employed in the safe care of the old and vulnerable be forced to be vaccinated ? I'm not sure.
 
Johnno said:
NHS staff need to have the Hep jabs if they work in a department that is at risk.
If they don’t want the jab, they don’t apply to work in those departments.
They don’t get fired.
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And no one is saying these will be. Not put in front line roles is the instruction.
 
SEASIDE2020 said:
Very, very few fatalities among the young and healthy from the vaccine.

Very, very few fatalities among the young and healthy from the virus.

Should young and healthy people be forced to be vaccinated ? Of course not.

Should young and healthy people employed in the safe care of the old and vulnerable be forced to be vaccinated ? I'm not sure.
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They're not being vaccinated for their own protection, it's to protect the old and vulnerable under their care who are high risk.
 
Wizaard said:
They're not being vaccinated for their own protection, it's to protect the old and vulnerable under their care who are high risk.
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Wiz

I am perfectly aware of that.

I also have no problem if you are insisting that those working in care should be forced to vaccinate.

I can't speak for you but I'd imagine that you are not suggesting that they should be forced to vaccinate AND be forced to stay in such employment.

With possible problems around recruitment and retention of staff, it might be an idea to consider the implications of mandatory vaccination of the young and healthy in such positions - that says consider the implications nothing else.

Just to be clear though, I understand your views on the matter and personally I have no problem with them and I won't be chaining myself to any railings in support or protest, no matter what is decided.
 
SEASIDE2020 said:
Wiz

I am perfectly aware of that.

I also have no problem if you are insisting that those working in care should be forced to vaccinate.

I can't speak for you but I'd imagine that you are not suggesting that they should be forced to vaccinate AND be forced to stay in such employment.

With possible problems around recruitment and retention of staff, it might be an idea to consider the implications of mandatory vaccination of the young and healthy in such positions - that says consider the implications nothing else.

Just to be clear though, I understand your views on the matter and personally I have no problem with them and I won't be chaining myself to any railings in support or protest, no matter what is decided.
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I don't have a view to be honest, but it seems sensible for those directly dealing with the old and vulnerable to reduce the risk of transmission as much as possible. Some dementia sufferers I know have struggled with people in masks as it reduces their ability to recognise the individuals caring for them which can exacerbate anxieties.

Mandatory does seem to be a sledgehammer to break a nut, but if that's the only way to really help the patients then so be it.
 
Wizaard said:
I don't have a view to be honest, but it seems sensible for those directly dealing with the old and vulnerable to reduce the risk of transmission as much as possible. Some dementia sufferers I know have struggled with people in masks as it reduces their ability to recognise the individuals caring for them which can exacerbate anxieties.

Mandatory does seem to be a sledgehammer to break a nut, but if that's the only way to really help the patients then so be it.
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No problem Wiz.

I think it appears you do have a view but as I say no problem and you make fair points.
 
Ragnarok said:
If the residents are all vaccinated the staff don't need to be if they choose not to
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The vaccine isn't 100% effective, even at preventing death, we don't know to what extent immunity will hold up over time, there may be medical reasons why residents can't receive the vaccine, I'm sorry but employing unvaccinated staff is a clear risk to the lives of the residents.
 
There are other roles within the care sector that don't directly involve dealing with the old and vulnerable
 
Wizaard said:
I don't have a view to be honest, but it seems sensible for those directly dealing with the old and vulnerable to reduce the risk of transmission as much as possible. Some dementia sufferers I know have struggled with people in masks as it reduces their ability to recognise the individuals caring for them which can exacerbate anxieties.

Mandatory does seem to be a sledgehammer to break a nut, but if that's the only way to really help the patients then so be it.
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Care workers have choices. Most of the people they are working with have none.

It's irresponsible not be vaccinated in those circumstances, especially from people in what is supposed to be a caring profession.
 
Wizaard said:
There are other roles within the care sector that don't directly involve dealing with the old and vulnerable
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We may be at cross purposes here, mate, but I’m thinking of care workers at, say, a medium sized private care home, as the vast majority are.
It’s very rare nowadays for them to have a dedicated laundry worker, for example, the care assistants do it in their ‘spare’ time, so if 3 or 4 care assistants don’t want the jab, which non- vulnerable facing positions can you imagine them being slipped into?
 
Johnno said:
We may be at cross purposes here, mate, but I’m thinking of care workers at, say, a medium sized private care home, as the vast majority are.
It’s very rare nowadays for them to have a dedicated laundry worker, for example, the care assistants do it in their ‘spare’ time, so if 3 or 4 care assistants don’t want the jab, which non- vulnerable facing positions can you imagine them being slipped into?
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True enough. The size of the place will impact hugely.
 
There's clearly people with weird ideas around this vaccine process & if they took more notice of the official channels, rather than what some mugwump on Facebook or YouTube was spouting on about & got vaccinated, we'd probably not be having this conversation. Part of me thinks it should be a prerequisite re employment in certain fields, but for many of the reasons mentioned above I'm not convinced.
 
Johnno said:
I’d be very interested in what their unions have to say about it, considering it just applies to care homes and not hospitals?
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“ In a survey of about 1,000 of its carers, the GMB said, more than a third indicated they would quit their jobs if vaccines were mandated.”

Just found the above.
 
Plenty of legal hurdles to overcome before this can be actually brought in. It's incompatible with the Human Rights Act for starters.
 
If I was in a care home or hospital, I’d be concerned if I was being treated by someone not vaccinated even though I’ve had both jabs. I just don’t get why they won’t.
 
Wizaard said:
Unionised labour in small care homes with staff on minimum wage and part time will be non existent.
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It’s probably not widespread, but at the one my daughter is assistant manager at, there are 15 staff to cover days and nights, and two (my daughter one) are in a union.
They are massively understaffed to the point my daughter does 60 hours a week (every week), most of which are doing a carers role not as management. She does a week on/week off with the manager to cover shifts that other staff can’t do if someone phones in sick (her company won’t pay for agency staff).
4 of her staff have not had the jab, and all have said today that they won’t be getting it no matter what happens. This will be replicated all over the country, and even staff who have had the jab have said they’ll leave if their colleagues are forced into it.
As someone said earlier (apologies but I’ve forgotten who), it’s a low paid job that only the dedicated last at. Most people blank out what these women and men do for our relatives, but believe me, they deserve medals. At the moment they feel like they’ve been rinsed for the last 15 months.

Apologies, rant over.
 
As these guys have really worked themselves and risked themselves, for our relatives, through the pandemic, when lots of us could stay safely at home, why don’t we furlough any of those who can’t be redeployed on 100% wage for a set period, funded by the government, until appropriate alternative employment can be found for them.

Seems the least we can do after using their services and risking their health when it suited our needs.
 
MrsDP was on the phone to our friends in France this a.m.
They said that they didn't have to wear their masks from now on.
Is it really necessary to wear our masks now?
Any thoughts on this?
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
Given all the deaths we had in care homes earlier in the pandemic I’am just surprised the Government didn’t bring the ruling in earlier.
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Maybe they were just a bit ashamed because they had caused all those deaths by instituting a policy of sending infected patients into the care homes in the first place?
No sorry, forget that idea- for just a moment I was giving the Conservatives a scrap of moral decency.
 
Davepick said:
MrsDP was on the phone to our friends in France this a.m.
They said that they didn't have to wear their masks from now on.
Is it really necessary to wear our masks now?
Any thoughts on this?
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Over 10,000 cases for the last couple of days, up from 3,000 at the start of the month, hospital numbers starting to tick up a bit too.
 
Lost Seasider said:
Over 10,000 cases for the last couple of days, up from 3,000 at the start of the month, hospital numbers starting to tick up a bit too.
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I'm not convinced by the public wearing masks. The virus particle is a lot smaller than the holes in the masks (unless they are medical grade) I see multiple examples everyday where people don't even cover their nostrils and hardly wear them properly, one mask worn for weeks. It's all a bit part gesture.
 
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