Coventry and the yardstick....!

S

Schalke_FY4

Well-known member
After reading their fans comments about "it's like watching us 12 months ago" and so on, I thought I'd take a look at how Coventry started last year's Championship campaign and whether there were any sort of comparisons.

Cov's first 10 results were as follows:

1-2
3-2
0-0
1-3
0-2
1-1
0-4
0-2
3-2
1-2

After 10 games, 8 points.....atfer 46 games, they finished the seaosn 16th on 55 points so a decent average of 1.30 points per game thereafter. Their 4-0 defeat was against Blackburn BTW.

Now I know that for many it'll be a case of "but I don't care what happened to Coventry last year" etc....but all I wanted to do is to maybe add a little perspective on the current situation and hope that after 10 games we've got perhaps more than 8 points, a squad that can compete, players back fit plus a lot more streetwise and know-how to the division.

See you at Bournemouth!

UTMP!
 
20togo said:
yep, interesting. 👍
The big thing for me is getting that first win. Coventry got it in their second game. A win gives the players confidence and the longer we go without one that confidence will naturally diminish.
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Yeah we could do with a win for sure. With 3 very tough games coming up though, we could easily be 6 games with no wins. We may actually benefit from last season's poor start, a bit, knowing that we fought back from that situation.

We have to play the long game, I think, treat each game as a fresh challenge, target improvements, and take the positives each time. See ourselves as a work in progress, and seek to improve all over the pitch. And pick up as many points as we can, of course. Bowler Lavery and Yates can cause problems, let's get more bodies behind them to stabilise things.
 
Schalke_FY4 said:
After reading their fans comments about "it's like watching us 12 months ago" and so on, I thought I'd take a look at how Coventry started last year's Championship campaign and whether there were any sort of comparisons.

Cov's first 10 results were as follows:

1-2
3-2
0-0
1-3
0-2
1-1
0-4
0-2
3-2
1-2

After 10 games, 8 points.....atfer 46 games, they finished the seaosn 16th on 55 points so a decent average of 1.30 points per game thereafter. Their 4-0 defeat was against Blackburn BTW.

Now I know that for many it'll be a case of "but I don't care what happened to Coventry last year" etc....but all I wanted to do is to maybe add a little perspective on the current situation and hope that after 10 games we've got perhaps more than 8 points, a squad that can compete, players back fit plus a lot more streetwise and know-how to the division.

See you at Bournemouth!

UTMP!
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Good post that.
 
voyeur said:
Yeah we could do with a win for sure. With 3 very tough games coming up though, we could easily be 6 games with no wins. We may actually benefit from last season's poor start, a bit, knowing that we fought back from that situation.

We have to play the long game, I think, treat each game as a fresh challenge, target improvements, and take the positives each time. See ourselves as a work in progress, and seek to improve all over the pitch. And pick up as many points as we can, of course. Bowler Lavery and Yates can cause problems, let's get more bodies behind them to stabilise things.
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We're going to beat Bournemouth. And if we don't. We'll win the next one. Or the next one.

It'll come.

We're going to be ok.
 
Schalke_FY4 said:
After reading their fans comments about "it's like watching us 12 months ago" and so on, I thought I'd take a look at how Coventry started last year's Championship campaign and whether there were any sort of comparisons.

Cov's first 10 results were as follows:

1-2
3-2
0-0
1-3
0-2
1-1
0-4
0-2
3-2
1-2

After 10 games, 8 points.....atfer 46 games, they finished the seaosn 16th on 55 points so a decent average of 1.30 points per game thereafter. Their 4-0 defeat was against Blackburn BTW.

Now I know that for many it'll be a case of "but I don't care what happened to Coventry last year" etc....but all I wanted to do is to maybe add a little perspective on the current situation and hope that after 10 games we've got perhaps more than 8 points, a squad that can compete, players back fit plus a lot more streetwise and know-how to the division.

See you at Bournemouth!

UTMP!
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Brilliant post, thanks
 
Where did they sign O'Hare, Dabo, and the centre forward from, they are the sort of players we need. Coventry aren't flush with cash, put those three in our team and I would be confident of mid table.
 
After watching pool v Coventry and following day hull v derby... there was only one game where I thought both teams would do OK this season.. and it wasn't the hull game.

From that one game (which I know is hard to judge) both of them will be down there and are the teams to beat.

Hopefully we can get something tomorrow but it's a free hit and I hope critch makes the chances we are all hoping (ie keogh on bench).. but just need to put in a good performance, ultimately not many teams will get something at Bournemouth this season.
 
SeasideKurt said:
Coventry were bloody miles ahead of us in every department except finishing. The were so slick at passing the ball.

We looked like a League Two side in the FA Cup against a Championship side at times. It was really poor.
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Agree. Had a feeling before the game that Cov would put us under pressure with their formation v ours. And that our current back four would be targeted as it looks as depressing to play in as it is to watch. But I also expected that they would struggle to score (O'Hare fancies himself as a Grealish but even Grealish farts about too much). And they would still leave us with possibilities to get something out of it. Thankfully it worked out that way for the goal diff as I think that could take a bit of a hit this weekend.

If this current team is the one that finishes the season then it will be a struggle. But it won't be. Within our limitations compared to the rest of the league then you have to expect that there will be improvements, and an adjustment period to a higher standard, as the players settle and the coaches learn on the job again. We had a disrupted pre-season where it looked like we were getting ready for league one again, so it can come as no surprise that we're having a championship pre-season now that the proper stuff has started.

Hopefully by the end we'll have built up a head of steam again, maybe through whoever comes in on loan in January to help us finish above the dotted line. If the intention at that point is to try to stay up, as I'm not convinced the club were desperate for this promotion when it happened (SS said he told NC he wanted to make the play off final so everyone at least knew what it 'felt' like to get there). I think it was just something that couldn't be stopped on momentum. But either way you have to get on with what is in front of you now.

I think we'll struggle to score ourselves all season because we did in league one. Apart from the flurry at the end where all 15 of the 15 goals scored involved a player who isn't here now, and we didn't get the benefit of being paid any money for any of them moving on.

The way we play, which hasn't really changed but the players and level has (with several missing and out of position as usual at the mo), is too over complicated for that so it puts extra pressure on the forwards to be precise at the end of slow build up. The idea is to control the opponent more than it is to blast them away in as straightforward a manner as possible. We out-smarted Oxford when it mattered every time last season, but in general I'd rather move the ball around and play to the tempo that they do when attacking.
 
gjr69 said:
Where did they sign O'Hare, Dabo, and the centre forward from, they are the sort of players we need. Coventry aren't flush with cash, put those three in our team and I would be confident of mid table.
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O'Hare was initially on loan with them last year from Villa - Dabo looks like he was released by Chelsea but previously loaned to Sparta Rotterdam....both of them had good Premier club upbringings which is where hopefully we can exploit the loan market soon!
 
gjr69 said:
Where did they sign O'Hare, Dabo, and the centre forward from, they are the sort of players we need. Coventry aren't flush with cash, put those three in our team and I would be confident of mid table.
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Gyokeres is a Swedish international who joined Cov on loan from Brighton in January and signed a 3 year contract in July, fee around 1m.
 
WalwynWasGod said:
He really stood out to me - exactly what we need… tall and mobile. If he cost £1m then that is where the difference shows.
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£1.35m on Gus Hamer as well who Rangers are being linked with. Controlled midfield the other night, although there wasn't much resistance.
 
poolfc said:
£1.35m on Gus Hamer as well who Rangers are being linked with. Controlled midfield the other night, although there wasn't much resistance.
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Yes Cov made some shrewd signings it seems to get them to where they are, relatively cheap, but more than we can afford. It appears.
 
voyeur said:
Yes Cov made some shrewd signings it seems to get them to where they are, relatively cheap, but more than we can afford. It appears.
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Feels that way. And understandable. Think SS has set off with good intentions but has been stung a bit in terms of inheriting a situation and having to make snap decisions when he has put money up for signings due to the brief involvement by McPhillips, the temp board, Grayson, Mansford, Johnson and so on. Constantly been having a tidy up of someone else ideas that haven't worked.
 
poolfc said:
Feels that way. And understandable. Think SS has set off with good intentions but has been stung a bit in terms of inheriting a situation and having to make snap decisions when he has put money up for signings due to the brief involvement by McPhillips, the temp board, Grayson, Mansford, Johnson and so on. Constantly been having a tidy up of someone else ideas that haven't worked.
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We don't know what hidden costs Sadler has had to contend with since he took over, cleaning up the considerable mess. And then Covid and a huge loss of income. It feels like the coffers are a bit dry, coupled with a likely reluctance to take any chances after the costly mistakes like Nuttall and Bez. A more careful approach now, waiting for players that we know more about - Critch has seen a lot of players over the last few years at close quarters.

The Keogh signing is worrying on various levels - he's not good enough and we should have known that, who decided he was worth signing, and presumably it means we have set a very low bar? We would be better off with Casey in the side, improving game by game. Much better off. Coventry have done well and we need to find players like Gyokeres, Dabo, Hamer, O'Hare (who cost nowt from Villa I think). If we could attract Simms and ballard last season on loan I can't see why we can't sign players as good or better now, on loan at least. The squad needs to be a mix of young dev players, older heads and a few loans that we can't afford to buy. Methinks.
 
voyeur said:
We don't know what hidden costs Sadler has had to contend with since he took over, cleaning up the considerable mess. And then Covid and a huge loss of income. It feels like the coffers are a bit dry, coupled with a likely reluctance to take any chances after the costly mistakes like Nuttall and Bez. A more careful approach now, waiting for players that we know more about - Critch has seen a lot of players over the last few years at close quarters.

The Keogh signing is worrying on various levels - he's not good enough and we should have known that, who decided he was worth signing, and presumably it means we have set a very low bar? We would be better off with Casey in the side, improving game by game. Much better off. Coventry have done well and we need to find players like Gyokeres, Dabo, Hamer, O'Hare (who cost nowt from Villa I think). If we could attract Simms and ballard last season on loan I can't see why we can't sign players as good or better now, on loan at least. The squad needs to be a mix of young dev players, older heads and a few loans that we can't afford to buy. Methinks.
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Exactly. Look to have switched towards extending contracts to keep who they have this summer, although we could really do with Dougall being one of them. Cov could sell Hamer for £4m profit and get KD for free next summer.

Keogh I can only think has been offered to the club at a time where all the other ideas have been used up. It's a one year (you have to offer an option by default) so hopefully cost effective in a way that it doesn't matter if he eventually doesn't play. As we do seem happy to spend on stopgaps until something better comes up. Though I don't see what we need a recruitment department for, for that.

I can't see him being on any list that Ben Mansford was setting unecessary expectations by talking about surely. Maybe one who looks better on a data sheet for his safe passing stats and his playing experience and Critchley likes that?

But yes, what's Casey here for? Has Critchley decided he doesn't trust Ekpiteta now, as he's been fit since April? They're only learning bad habits off watching RK going off on a wander and getting himself booked for a wayward lunge, leaving a huge gap behind to expoit. Or pointing at others for getting nutmegged in his own box as last man.
 
poolfc said:
Exactly. Look to have switched towards extending contracts to keep who they have this summer, although we could really do with Dougall being one of them. Cov could sell Hamer for £4m profit and get KD for free next summer.

Keogh I can only think has been offered to the club at a time where all the other ideas have been used up. It's a one year (you have to offer an option by default) so hopefully cost effective in a way that it doesn't matter if he eventually doesn't play. As we do seem happy to spend on stopgaps until something better comes up. Though I don't see what we need a recruitment department for, for that.

I can't see him being on any list that Ben Mansford was setting unecessary expectations by talking about surely. Maybe one who looks better on a data sheet for his safe passing stats and his playing experience and Critchley likes that?

But yes, what's Casey here for? Has Critchley decided he doesn't trust Ekpiteta now, as he's been fit since April? They're only learning bad habits off watching RK going off on a wander and getting himself booked for a wayward lunge, leaving a huge gap behind to expoit. Or pointing at others for getting nutmegged in his own box as last man.
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I was assured by herts that Dougall would re-sign when I said he wouldn't. He'll be looking for the best contract he can get next summer, his last chance to earn bigger money.

Keogh is a set of wages and a squad place. Why use any money and a squad place on him? I don't see it, and I didn't when we signed him. We didn't need a stop gap, we have various players who can play CB that are better than him. Predictably so.

Ekpiteta wasn't going to shift Ballard from April onwards. Critch seems to have a big thing about exposing younger players to potentially harmful experiences. He's kind of thrown RK to the wolves, dead meat! Will he let the wolves have another feed tomorrow, or push some younger faster specimens out on the grass? For me, we need to blood these young lads and let them grow into the role so that when the more winnable games arrive they are used to it. Critch is worried they could be scarred by a few maulings, I guess.
 
SeasideKurt said:
Coventry were bloody miles ahead of us in every department except finishing. The were so slick at passing the ball.

We looked like a League Two side in the FA Cup against a Championship side at times. It was really poor.
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@Schalke_FY4 isn't stating otherwise nor is it the point of this thread - it's that Coventry were recently where we are now, so while we definitely need to make signings and undoubtedly need to improve to stay up, it is possible, despite how poor we looked.

Pretty much their entire board was empathetic to this and you didn't get the usual 'they're shit, we should have hammered them' type of posts you usually see.
 
voyeur said:
I was assured by herts that Dougall would re-sign when I said he wouldn't. He'll be looking for the best contract he can get next summer, his last chance to earn bigger money.

Keogh is a set of wages and a squad place. Why use any money and a squad place on him? I don't see it, and I didn't when we signed him. We didn't need a stop gap, we have various players who can play CB that are better than him. Predictably so.

Ekpiteta wasn't going to shift Ballard from April onwards. Critch seems to have a big thing about exposing younger players to potentially harmful experiences. He's kind of thrown RK to the wolves, dead meat! Will he let the wolves have another feed tomorrow, or push some younger faster specimens out on the grass? For me, we need to blood these young lads and let them grow into the role so that when the more winnable games arrive they are used to it. Critch is worried they could be scarred by a few maulings, I guess.
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That's another theory I suppose. Holding off until he's got the midfield players available to help protect the defence better. Still thought Ekpiteta would be his go-to player as RCB as he's 25 and knows enough about changing leagues by now as that's been his career to date. Every game you don't play is adding one onto the end of the total before you suss it out, to me. He was signed for a passing game so I can't see what's changed on that side of it.
 
I think the fact that Coventry splashed out on several players like that and yet aren't fancied this season shows what we're up against. This is just where we are right now and our business in the loan market will be absolutely key. We failed in this respect in the first half of last season with Woodburn and Kemp, but then got it right in the second half of the season with Simms and Ballard - and look at the difference. The biggest surprise for me so far this season is that we still only have one loan player. It's actually astonishing especially considering how much the aforementioned players improved while here.
 
poolfc said:
That's another theory I suppose. Holding off until he's got the midfield players available to help protect the defence better. Still thought Ekpiteta would be his go-to player as RCB as he's 25 and knows enough about changing leagues by now as that's been his career to date. Every game you don't play is adding one onto the end of the total before you suss it out, to me. He was signed for a passing game so I can't see what's changed on that side of it.
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Yeah I agree, he's a shoe-in surely, instead of RK.
 
20togo said:
yep, interesting. 👍
The big thing for me is getting that first win. Coventry got it in their second game. A win gives the players confidence and the longer we go without one that confidence will naturally diminish.
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The win didn’t do Coventry that much good - they got 2 points from their next six games!
 
Coventry team from the other night. Not a huge outlay on fees. 2 loan players from Chelsea and 3 players signed following loan spells.

Moore - arrived recently free transfer
Hyam - L1 survivor
MacFadzean - L1 survivor
Clarke-Salter - recent loan from Chelsea
Dabo - signed from Chelsea in L1 in 2019
Hamer - Brazilian signed 2020 for €1.5m
Sheaf - 750k from Arsenal after season loan
Maatsen - summer loan from Chelsea
Allen - L1 survivor
O'Hare - signed from Villa last summer after season loan. Free/Compensation?
Gyokeres - 1m summer signing from Brighton after January loan.

Rose - signed from Ayr 2 years ago
Da Costa - signed on a free a year ago from France
Waghorn - free from Derby this summer.

They play a 3421 system. Wing backs on either side of the 4. Allen and O'Hare behind Gyokeres up front.
 
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voyeur said:
Coventry team from the other night. Not a huge outlay on fees. 2 loan players from Chelsea and 3 players signed following loan spells.

Moore - arrived recently free transfer
Hyam - L1 survivor
MacFadzean - L1 survivor
Clarke-Salter - recent loan from Chelsea
Dabo - signed from Chelsea in L1 in 2019
Hamer - Brazilian signed 2020 for €1.5m
Sheaf - 750k from Arsenal after season loan
Maatsen - summer loan from Chelsea
Allen - L1 survivor
O'Hare - signed from Villa last summer after season loan. Free/Compensation?
Gyokeres - 1m summer signing from Brighton after January loan.

Rose - signed from Ayr 2 years ago
Da Costa - signed on a free a year ago from France
Waghorn - free from Derby this summer.
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They obviously have a recruitment department that knows it's stuff, nobody gets that lucky. Relatively low outlay for this division. Coventry will not be involved in the relegation battle and I would say they have a chance of the playoffs but they will face much sterner tests than the one we gave them on Tuesday.
 
Could we play that system?

3 from Ekpiteta Connolly Gretarsson Casey Husband
4 from Ward Dougall Stewart Garbutt James
2 from Bowler/Keshi/Carey/TJJ
1 from Yates/Lavery

Mitchell could play in the 4 or the 2. Not sure about CJ and Madine. Possibly not suited.

I'd be happier with that than our current set up, personally.
 
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voyeur said:
Could we play that system?

Ekpiteta Connolly Husband
Ward Dougall Stewart Garbutt/James
2 from Bowler/Keshi/Carey/TJJ
1 from Yates/Lavery

I'd be happier with that than our current set up, personally.
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Looks a lot better than this mish mash of square pegs in round holes 4 4 2 that we are playing. Would give us more passing options and make it more difficult for the opposition to impose their game on us.
 
voyeur said:
Could we play that system?

3 from Ekpiteta Connolly Gretarsson Casey Husband
4 from Ward Dougall Stewart Garbutt James
2 from Bowler/Keshi/Carey/TJJ
1 from Yates/Lavery

Mitchell could play in the 4 or the 2. Not sure about CJ and Madine. Possibly not suited.

I'd be happier with that than our current set up, personally.
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Definitely, or at least five in midfield in some variation. It's not a sweeping statement to say that the majority of teams do set up this way in this league as it helps to protect the defence and is a better platform to go forward.
 
poolfc said:
Definitely, or at least five in midfield in some variation. It's not a sweeping statement to say that the majority of teams do set up this way in this league as it helps to protect the defence and is a better platform to go forward.
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Apparently Cov switched from 433 to this, added a but of affordable quality, and now seem like a decent established Championship team. It looks like a much more solid system and our squad seems to suit it.
 
voyeur said:
Apparently Cov switched from 433 to this, added a but of affordable quality, and now seem like a decent established Championship team. It looks like a much more solid system and our squad seems to suit it.
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It's one of the oldest tricks in the coaching book I think. Did it back end of last season when the 4-2-2-2 set up went a bit stale against Rochdale and Shrewsbury. Started winning again without conceding because it improved the shape of the team straight away.

Edit to say as well that it's sort of come back full circle on how Grayson set his team up to try to get the best use of the players he inherited second time around. It's not a bad system with the right intentions.
 
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We got 12 points in our first season back and ended up finishing 19th on 54 points. We got a lot of draws in those first few games and that's where we need to be in the next couple of games - try and grind out some points.
 
The signing of Keogh's getting a lot of flack but while his legs may not do what his brain wants them to (those of us who played well in to our thirties know how that feels 😅) his experience is still of use in this young team. I don't believe (hope not anyway) that NC signed Keogh with the intention of him being first choice every week. I see that Gary Cahill has just signed for Cherries!
 
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