Covid immunity, good news

JJpool

JJpool

Well-known member

Hidden immunity: Why booster jabs may not be needed after all​

Studies suggest people may not require a third vaccination despite falling antibody levels among the elderly

Anyone keeping an eye on coronavirus antibody levels in Britain may have noticed an alarming trend in recent months.



Since peaking in May, the percentage of older people who are testing positive for protective antibodies has been steadily declining. It rose to 95 per cent for the over-80s, and has now fallen to 92.4.
In fact, only the under-50s are not seeing a drop in antibody levels, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS).
This signal of waning immunity has led to calls for booster jabs ahead of a winter wave.
But several studies have come out in the last few months that suggest we might not need to be too worried after all. Antibodies are not the only indicator of immunity.
In May, researchers at Washington University School of Medicine, who studied 77 recovering Covid patients found that while antibodies declined over time, bone marrow plasma cells, capable of producing antibodies against the virus, remained stable.

Dialed-down protection could last a lifetime​

It means that people who have recovered from an infection have immunity hidden away in their bones ready to spring into action. This type of dialed-down protection could last decades, or even a lifetime, the researchers believe.
The team also found patients were carrying memory B-cells - a type of white blood cell - which patrols the blood looking for the virus.
In fact, the researchers noted that the levels of B-cells found in recovered Covid-19 patients are equal to people vaccinated against tetanus or diphtheria, both vaccines that provide long-term immunity to those diseases.


Similarly, researchers from The Rockefeller University, New York, recently found that recovered Covid patients still have immunity a year after infection, including antibodies that were "exceptionally resistant" to variants.
“The data suggest that immunity in convalescent individuals will be very long lasting and that convalescent individuals who receive available mRNA vaccines will produce antibodies and memory B-cells that should be protective against circulating SARS-CoV-2 variants,” the researchers concluded.
The problem with only looking at antibodies is it gives a false picture of the level of protection. The body is efficient, and will not continue to produce high-levels of antibodies when they are no longer needed.

More below....

 
Sarah Knapton, not a good start.

The Telegraph's coverage of Covid has been pretty terrible all round IMO, but she has been far and away the worst.
 
Davepick said:
Yet only today they are saying that us 'older persons' will need booster jab soon.
They say that the Pfizer, which we had, loses it's immunity after 6 months.
TV news today.
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They are again being sensational, yes antibodies subside as the article above says but t cell immunity etc seem to stay which is what protects against serious illness.

The media are obviously all over it like a rash, booster shots needed.

Maybe they are maybe they aren't, but if currently you still catch covid with both jabs at full strength they say no its about the protection you get from being hospitalised etc... OK.

But if that protection remains its less of a case to say.... let's all get jab after jab to be more protected from infection but never fully protected.

Now a booster may be based off updated strains, as the vaccines atm are based off the very first one, hence why its not as effective, so a booster could indeed be better and stop more actual cases because its built to fight the newer strains.

The truth is we don't know but of protection stays for serious covid its certainly good news.
 
JJpool said:
They are again being sensational, yes antibodies subside as the article above says but t cell immunity etc seem to stay which is what protects against serious illness.

The media are obviously all over it like a rash, booster shots needed.

Maybe they are maybe they aren't, but if currently you still catch covid with both jabs at full strength they say no its about the protection you get from being hospitalised etc... OK.

But if that protection remains its less of a case to say.... let's all get jab after jab to be more protected from infection but never fully protected.

Now a booster may be based off updated strains, as the vaccines atm are based off the very first one, hence why its not as effective, so a booster could indeed be better and stop more actual cases because its built to fight the newer strains.

The truth is we don't know but of protection stays for serious covid its certainly good news.
Click to expand...
The media were all over a study that involved 1.5 million people. Are they supposed to ignore that evidence?
 
Let’s be honest - nobody can tell anyone categorically what will definitely work mid to long term.

I am sure we will see many positive and negative articles in the coming months

What I will say, is that for me if I am offered a booster - I will be having it - that’s about all I can personally do apart from personal hygiene, which is a given!!

I also know the drug companies are working on second and third generation vaccines which may or may not solve the problem once and for all.
 
The thing that hasn't really been highlighted in all of this is that for the medium term (at least) this virus is going to be in circulation as the current vaccines do not 100% stop transmission. This is bad news for anti-vaxxers as it means that at some future point they will inevitably come into contact with Covid, whether it be next week or in two years or five years time. We can therefore also expect a continuing daily death toll from the virus. Members of the public will be continually re-infected but each time they are infected the effects should be milder as the immune system learns how to cope with the virus. We have a long, long way to go with this but I feel that we are moving in the right direction, we have to learn how to live with Covid.
 
southshorepool said:
The media were all over a study that involved 1.5 million people. Are they supposed to ignore that evidence?
Click to expand...
No one is saying ignore evidence the very article I posted above says antibodies have been declining, but it often hasn't been ofset with the other info above.

If immunity is still largely there for serious disease we dont need them scaring everyone further about antibody reductions which is normal.

I'm someone who's supported the vaccine etc bit I'm just getting sick of them not providing the full picture.

At full protection from both jabs im I think 60% lese likely to catch it initially. If the serious disease is pretty much covered after either a jab, catching covid or both then its just mainly about stopping getting it.

Of course I dont want it but that can still happen even with the jabs I had.

If the booster programme is only based on the not catching and not the other protections, it carries a lot less weight and they will struggle to convince everyone to get it, unless of course they continue to use fear which is what has worked but I dont like it.

By not giving the full picture that creates the fear as people are now worried about the reducing antibodies, maybe we do need to be, or maybe we dont as much.
 
More from article...

Blueprints for making antibodies are squirrelled away​

This is a good thing, as it prevents the onset of auto-immunity which can lead to a slew of debilitating conditions. Instead, the blueprints for making antibodies are squirrelled away, while a casual surveillance is mounted by the immune system.

But bone marrow and B-cells are not all the body has stashed away for a future fight. Last year, Imperial College found that people who had recovered from Covid still had memory T-cells even after antibodies had waned. T-cells are a kind of white blood cell which stores the details of a past infection and can quickly multiply on re-exposure, providing a rapid response to an invader.

T-cells may also have the added benefit of being able to fight variants. While antibodies only detect proteins on the outside of cells, such as the spike protein which the virus uses to latch on to human cells, T-cells can hone in on proteins inside infected cells. Crucially, many of these do not change when the virus mutates.

Earlier this year, scientists at the La Jolla Institute for Immunology in California found that people infected by Covid generate T-cells that target at least 15 to 20 different fragments of coronavirus proteins, and would work even against worrying mutations such as the 501Y.V2 mutation found in the South Africa (beta) variant.

Infections from the original Sars virus have also produced immunity in recovered patients that have lasted decades. A study by scientists in Singapore, published last week, found that Sars patients who were vaccinated against Covid produced high levels of neutralizing antibodies against both viruses.

It suggests that memory regions of the immune system were jogged into action by the vaccine, raising hope that coronavirus infection or vaccination offers long-term protection which can be easily ramped up if the virus re-emerges.

Certainly we are not seeing any indication that vaccinated people are becoming more at risk for reinfection. Although there have been some breakthrough infections with the delta variant, the vast majority (82 per cent) of people catching Covid currently have not had two doses.

The Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) is expected to advise that booster vaccinations will not be rolled out to the wider population, although some more vulnerable people may be offered a third jab. For most of us, it is likely we will be safe enough with just two.
 
In other news Pfizer predict $60 billion from worldwide Covid vaccine sales in 2022 at $15.90 a shot.
 
I find the whole coronavirus epidemic very confusing rules and regulations are constantly changing Mr Johnson says we now have our freedom
but that doesn t appear to be correct as we can still catch this sometimes fatal disease.
 
JJpool said:
They are again being sensational, yes antibodies subside as the article above says but t cell immunity etc seem to stay which is what protects against serious illness.

The media are obviously all over it like a rash, booster shots needed.

Maybe they are maybe they aren't, but if currently you still catch covid with both jabs at full strength they say no its about the protection you get from being hospitalised etc... OK.

But if that protection remains its less of a case to say.... let's all get jab after jab to be more protected from infection but never fully protected.

Now a booster may be based off updated strains, as the vaccines atm are based off the very first one, hence why its not as effective, so a booster could indeed be better and stop more actual cases because its built to fight the newer strains.

The truth is we don't know but of protection stays for serious covid its certainly good news.
Click to expand...
Sorry JJ, I'd sooner take their wisdom than yours.
 
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