Covid latest

tangysider

Well-known member
No covid related deaths in Scotland or NI
Most of 77 deaths in England were over 80
I know it is weekend and figures are always under reported but is covid on the wane?
 
No, in 2-3 weeks rate will be back over 600 thanks to these protests, and we’ll be back in some form of lockdown.
 
Dont count you're chickens just yet. I really hope its on its way out. I would have liked to think we would have been virtually clear by the end of the month. Unfortunately i doubt we will know now until at least mid july possibly august?
 
Yes it's on the wane.... Most people have either had it or are immune to it, so it is fizzling out due to a lack of people to infect... 👍

The recent riots will make no difference....

We now need to wear masks to keep the illusion going until the vaccine arrives😉
 
Yes it's on the wane.... Most people have either had it or are immune to it, so it is fizzling out due to a lack of people to infect... 👍

The recent riots will make no difference....

We now need to wear masks to keep the illusion going until the vaccine arrives😉
Or the vast majority have been abiding by social distancing so the numbers have gone down as the virus has been unable to spread. Just think. A total lockdown for a fortnight or so could really see the back of it, but that won't happen and might possibly see a second surge as people get more reckless.
 
At first it was the social distancing that kept the unstoppable virus at bay, then it was the protective masks....

No virus, no need for a vaccine... They don’t want to run out of customers ...
 
At first it was the social distancing that kept the unstoppable virus at bay, then it was the protective masks....

No virus, no need for a vaccine... They don’t want to run out of customers ...
Are you seriously suggesting it's one huge conspiracy theory involving every Government in the world and Big Pharma?
 
Are you seriously suggesting it's one huge conspiracy theory involving every Government in the world and Big Pharma?
I’m suggesting that this virus will infect enough people and then run out of steam no matter what we do.

If I’ve heard “There will be a spike in cases because of xxxxxx” once, I’ve heard it a hundred times, yet the numbers keep going down.
Then it’s the R number is above 1, yet still cases fall.

So yes, I’m beginning to wonder what the crack is. I wonder whether there are people invested in the proliferation of ongoing fear, a problem that needs a vaccine based solution, rather than the acknowledgement that this virus simply burns itself out.
 
I've just read that hospitals in London are seeing a rise in covid admissions. Not sure how people think it's on the wane esp after the social distancing and lockdown measures meant numbers would naturally fall. Unfortunately the weekend protests coupled with the post Cummings don't give a toss attitude it was always going to rise.
 
Appears to be petering out in France, Spain and Italy so logical it will do the same here, we're about 3 weeks behind those countries.
 
We have no idea yet who is immune to it but it was said today ,I think on Andrew Marr that it is estimated that just one in one thousand in the UK have so far been infected.

Certainly not a time for complacency.

I have just worked out that one in one thousand must be a considerable underestimate.
 
We have no idea yet who is immune to it but it was said today ,I think on Andrew Marr that it is estimated that just one in one thousand in the UK have so far been infected.

Certainly not a time for complacency.

I have just worked out that one in one thousand must be a considerable underestimate.

One in One Thousand have currently got it.... Antibody testing suggests that around 1 in 16 have had it.
 
We have no idea yet who is immune to it but it was said today ,I think on Andrew Marr that it is estimated that just one in one thousand in the UK have so far been infected.

Certainly not a time for complacency.

I have just worked out that one in one thousand must be a considerable underestimate.

1/1,000 I think is the current number of people with the infection, about 70.000 in total, best guess for those who have had it is probably about 4,000,000 based on deaths and death rates (but obviously wide margins of error here).
 
Could come back in Winter. Or when we start easing restrictions from middle of this month. I’d rather have the vaccine if I haven’t had it already. Believe the same Oxford team are also expecting to have x2 antibody versions ready around the same time
 
I haven’t got a problem wearing one to protect other people but the majority of people think that by wearing one they are protecting themselves. Major fail

They may help protect you, but not in the way you expect.

A lot of the transmission is likely coming from touching surfaces (door handles etc) that have been touched by infected persons and then touching yout nose and mouth, by wearing a mask you are not protecting yourself from airborne tranmission but you are protecting yourself from this touching transmission (provided that you wash hand before taking mask off etc).
 
They may help protect you, but not in the way you expect.

A lot of the transmission is likely coming from touching surfaces (door handles etc) that have been touched by infected persons and then touching yout nose and mouth, by wearing a mask you are not protecting yourself from airborne tranmission but you are protecting yourself from this touching transmission (provided that you wash hand before taking mask off etc).
Well that’s been the story so far from this Government, who haven’t exactly excelled through this pandemic. Now they are changing their tune, but they still won’t suggest you wear medical masks, because they are reserved for those who need them the most, like Doctors and nurses, even though you are meant to believe they don’t work anyway.
Washing hands / hygiene is no more important than wearing masks, and distancing, imo.
 
They may help protect you, but not in the way you expect.

A lot of the transmission is likely coming from touching surfaces (door handles etc) that have been touched by infected persons and then touching yout nose and mouth, by wearing a mask you are not protecting yourself from airborne tranmission but you are protecting yourself from this touching transmission (provided that you wash hand before taking mask off etc).
But you are messing around adjusting your mask every five minutes then youre touching the fresh produce in the supermarket then youre adjusting that itchy mask again then youre handling the shopping trolleys etc etc etc.

If you believe in viral particles that arent even alive to begin with "living" on surfaces outside a human host then surely this breeding ground of virions and also bacteria you are creating inside the mask is actually increasing the risk of transmitting these infectious particles.
 
Yes it's on the wane.... Most people have either had it or are immune to it, so it is fizzling out due to a lack of people to infect... 👍
The recent riots will make no difference....
We now need to wear masks to keep the illusion going until the vaccine arrives😉


The WHO says over 136,000 new cases were reported on Sunday, the most in a single day so far, largely driven by outbreaks in the Americas and South Asia. Although the situation in Europe is improving, globally it's worsening said Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, director-general of the WHO on Monday. Tedros also noted more than 100,000 cases have been reported on nine of the past 10 days.

So, you almost nailed it BFC. Only 100% wrong 😉
 
No, in 2-3 weeks rate will be back over 600 thanks to these protests, and we’ll be back in some form of lockdown.
then how do you explain the falling infection rate when the beaches have been packed since the first bank holiday??
 
The WHO says over 136,000 new cases were reported on Sunday, the most in a single day so far, largely driven by outbreaks in the Americas and South Asia. Although the situation in Europe is improving, globally it's worsening said Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, director-general of the WHO on Monday. Tedros also noted more than 100,000 cases have been reported on nine of the past 10 days.

So, you almost nailed it BFC. Only 100% wrong 😉
I'm talking about the situation in the UK, though the situation everywhere else will be not different over time...The number of infections will rise, peak and then fall...That's going to occur in every population until they have reached a critical point in terms of general immunity, regardless of what they do IMHO.

I'd also take issue with the statistics.... The reason the number of new cases is the highest it has ever been has more to do with increased availability of tests than the number of people actually infected. You can see from the overall number of deaths (A more reliable statistic) that the worldwide situation (at present) is definitely not as bad as it has been.
 
The reason the number of new cases is the highest it has ever been has more to do with increased availability of tests than the number of people actually infected. You can see from the overall number of deaths (A more reliable statistic) that the worldwide situation (at present) is definitely not as bad as it has been.

I only wish that were true. Unfortunately, the number of deaths follows the number of infections and at a record high of 136,000 in one day it's not looking good for the South Americans and Asians.
 
I’m suggesting that this virus will infect enough people and then run out of steam no matter what we do.

If I’ve heard “There will be a spike in cases because of xxxxxx” once, I’ve heard it a hundred times, yet the numbers keep going down.
Then it’s the R number is above 1, yet still cases fall.

So yes, I’m beginning to wonder what the crack is. I wonder whether there are people invested in the proliferation of ongoing fear, a problem that needs a vaccine based solution, rather than the acknowledgement that this virus simply burns itself out.
They tend to come back stronger though, see Spanish flu as the prime example, that's the worry now.

This shit just doesn't disappear.
 
I only wish that were true. Unfortunately, the number of deaths follows the number of infections and at a record high of 136,000 in one day it's not looking good for the South Americans and Asians.

It is true... In fact it is quite obviously true...You can see for example that the USA had over 19,000 confirmed cases yesterday and deaths of 586... At the height of the epidemic in the UK, Spain, Italy, case numbers peaked at around 7000 per day in each country, but number of deaths was almost 1000. We already know that, testing was limited to a small fraction of those infected in the early stages of this epidemic...

They tend to come back stronger though, see Spanish flu as the prime example, that's the worry now.

This shit just doesn't disappear.

"They"?

Are we talking Flu or Coronavirus... It seems that SAR's, MER's etc... (The Coronavirus 'They' have actually just fizzled out)

Also most Flu Virus strains also go through epidemic curve and then susequently fizzle out...

The circumstances with Spanish Flu seem to be pretty unique don't you think and Flu does tend to mutate at a much faster rate than this coronavirus.

From what I can see most of the top scientists are in agreement that the second wave is unlikely
 
It is true... In fact it is quite obviously true...You can see for example that the USA had over 19,000 confirmed cases yesterday and deaths of 586... At the height of the epidemic in the UK, Spain, Italy, case numbers peaked at around 7000 per day in each country, but number of deaths was almost 1000. We already know that, testing was limited to a small fraction of those infected in the early stages of this epidemic...



"They"?

Are we talking Flu or Coronavirus... It seems that SAR's, MER's etc... (The Coronavirus 'They' have actually just fizzled out)

Also most Flu Virus strains also go through epidemic curve and then susequently fizzle out...

The circumstances with Spanish Flu seem to be pretty unique don't you think and Flu does tend to mutate at a much faster rate than this coronavirus.

From what I can see most of the top scientists are in agreement that the second wave is unlikely


For God's sake play another tune BFC3.

The self appointed COVID-19 denier.

Will you still be posting when the number of cases spikes again, as they undoubtedly will?
 
That makes no sense BFC. There are more new cases of CV-19 globally now than at any time before. Not due to increased testing. So, more people than ever before are suffering from the virus. South America and Asia are not equipped as well as Europe to tackle this outbreak. That means a higher rate of deaths and it means the virus is getting worse. This isn't a second spike. This is the first pandemic reaching the rest of the world. Saying it's disappearing is just nonsense. I know you're going to come back and tell me every expert in the world is wrong so I'm going to go and put my head in a bucket of sand. Thank you.
 
That makes no sense BFC. There are more new cases of CV-19 globally now than at any time before. Not due to increased testing. So, more people than ever before are suffering from the virus. South America and Asia are not equipped as well as Europe to tackle this outbreak. That means a higher rate of deaths and it means the virus is getting worse. This isn't a second spike. This is the first pandemic reaching the rest of the world. Saying it's disappearing is just nonsense. I know you're going to come back and tell me every expert in the world is wrong so I'm going to go and put my head in a bucket of sand. Thank you.
Of course it makes sense....

We know for a fact that testing in Europe at the height of the outbreak was limited, due to a lack of testing capability. We have since establised that the number of people who were infected in Europe is around 20 X the number of cases recorded by testing.

The fact that the USA and Brazil are on average showing almost 3 times the number of confirmed cases for each death, when compared to the UK and India around 5 times the number of confirmed cases per death, Russia over 10 times, clearly demonstrates that more cases are being picked up, due to increased testing.

I didn't say that it was a second spike.... I said that there wouldn't be a second spike

I also didn't suggest that the Virus was disappearing in the rest of the world, just that it was disappearing in the UK... It will disappear in the rest of the world though, just like it is doing in Europe and the US..

I'm not sure what you mean about every expert being wrong? I would expect that most experts are capable of performing a GSCE standard statistical analysis TBH.
 
One in One Thousand have currently got it.... Antibody testing suggests that around 1 in 16 have had it.

1/16 equates to about 4,000,000, which is in line with the estimate you get based on the total deaths (40,000 dead, about 1% mortality).

1/16 is also 6.25%, which means that 93.75% of the population haven't had it, so................


Yes it's on the wane.... Most people have either had it or are immune to it, so it is fizzling out due to a lack of people to infect... 👍

Could you make your mind up please.
 
Which part of Most people have either had it or are immune to it are you struggling to grasp?

Well, 6.25% is a lot less than most people so unless you're claiming that half of the population has some kind of innate immunity to the disease that seems to have escaped the notice of scientists around the world I can't see how you can claim "most" when 93.75% have not had the disease according to your own 1/16 figure.

Also, your theory of innate immunity looks somewhat iffy when you consider that the natural R rate is pretty high compared to many other diseases
 
Well, 6.25% is a lot less than most people so unless you're claiming that half of the population has some kind of innate immunity to the disease that seems to have escaped the notice of scientists around the world I can't see how you can claim "most" when 93.75% have not had the disease according to your own 1/16 figure.

Also, your theory of innate immunity looks somewhat iffy when you consider that the natural R rate is pretty high compared to many other diseases

That's exactly what I'm claiming, hence why I said what I said, rather than something completely different.
 
That's exactly what I'm claiming, hence why I said what I said, rather than something completely different.

Do you have any evidence to support your theory of innate immunity to the disease?

Could you also explain how the virus manages to have such a high R rate when half of the population are immune to infection?
 
Do you have any evidence to support for your theory of innate immunity to the disease?

Could you also explain how the virus manages to have such a high R rate when half of the population are immune to infection?

Yes... I do

18 would be described as "A high R0 rate", the R0 for Covid19 in the UK is currently between 0.7 and 0.9
 
Yes... I do

18 would be described as "A high R0 rate", the R0 for Covid19 in the UK is currently between 0.7 and 0.9

You're confusing R0 with R or Re, R0 applies to a 100% susceptible population absent protective measures.

The UK R rate is a consequence of lockdown and social distancing measures, before those it was much higher, the Basic Reproduction Number is 5.8, which is for example double that of the common cold and is only beaten by measles, mumps and chickenpox.



Note that they say "resistant" rather than immune, which is to say you can still get the disease (and pass it on to others), but are likely to suffer less severe symptoms.

Which then brings you back to the 1/16 6.25% who appear to have had the disease, leaving 93.75% of the population still able to contract it and pass it on to others.

And all of this ignores the uncertainty about how much protection previous infection confers against future exposure.

Plus it's the Guardian, and is therefore wrong.
 
You're confusing R0 with R or Re, R0 applies to a 100% susceptible population absent protective measures.

The UK R rate is a consequence of lockdown and social distancing measures, before those it was much higher, the Basic Reproduction Number is 5.8, which is for example double that of the common cold and is only beaten by measles, mumps and chickenpox.




Note that they say "resistant" rather than immune, which is to say you can still get the disease (and pass it on to others), but are likely to suffer less severe symptoms.

Which then brings you back to the 1/16 6.25% who appear to have had the disease, leaving 93.75% of the population still able to contract it and pass it on to others.

And all of this ignores the uncertainty about how much protection previous infection confers against future exposure.

Plus it's the Guardian, and therefore wrong.
Look...

You decided to be clever by trying to highlight what you mistakenly thought was a contradiction in what I said.... I've pointed out there was no contradiction.

I'm not particularly interested in now getting involved in semantics over the nuances of resistance and immunity because you made a bit of a cock of yourself and now need to try and regain a small amount of credibility.

Also not interested in whether or not you agree with my opinion or with the article.....That's your choice
 
Look...

You decided to be clever by trying to highlight what you mistakenly thought was a contradiction in what I said.... I've pointed out there was no contradiction.

I'm not particularly interested in now getting involved in semantics over the nuances of resistance and immunity because you made a bit of a cock of yourself and now need to try and regain a small amount of credibility.

Also not interested in whether or not you agree with my opinion or with the article.....That's your choice

Really?

You seem to have decided that half the country is naturally immune to the virus on the basis of f*** all evidence, in fact flying directly in the face of the evidence, not to mention pretty much all scientific opinion across the world and you think I've made a cock of myself!

Delusional.
 
Really?

You seem to have decided that half the country is naturally immune to the virus on the basis of f*** all evidence, in fact flying directly in the face of the evidence, not to mention pretty much all scientific opinion across the world and you think I've made a cock of myself!

Delusional.

Like I said... You thought you were clever by linking two statements that you thought were contradictory. Unfortunately, your basic reading skills let you down and so you made a bit of a mug of yourself.

There's plenty of evidence and scientific support to suggest that Covid 19 has been in around longer than we had originally suspected, that some kind of inate or crossover immunity exists within certain individuals and that asymptomatic cases are likely to be less infectious.

In fact theses theories have been put forward by some of the leading international epidemiologists, who had anticipated signifcantly higher postitive antibody results, due to the pattern of the disease.
 
Like I said... You thought you were clever by linking two statements that you thought were contradictory. Unfortunately, your basic reading skills let you down and so you made a bit of a mug of yourself.

My reading let me down to the extent that I didn't think anybody could be so deranged as to make the claims you are making, unfortunately it seems I was wrong.

As to the rest, well you're cherry picking fragments of information and assembling it into a picture that flies in the face of scientific and medical opinion so I think we'll leave it there.
 
My reading let me down to the extent that I didn't think anybody could be so deranged as to make the claims you are making, unfortunately it seems I was wrong.

As to the rest, well you're cherry picking fragments of information and assembling it into a picture that flies in the face of scientific and medical opinion so I think we'll leave it there.

There's nothing remotely deranged about it..In fact some detailed studies and SEIR modelling has been carried out, based on an inhomogeneous population, which have suggested that as little as 6.9% of the population being infected with Covid 19 could bring about Herd Immunity.

You have suggested a basic reproductive number of 5.8, yet widely different variations of that number have been calculated through different populations. This has ranged on figures I have seen from 2.2 up to 7.2, with a mean of 3.28 and median 2.79.

I've watched the numbers very closely, seen the actions taken by various countries, with huge variations in impact from country to country, city to city, which cannot be explained by lockdown alone. I've listened to a whole range of expert opinion and there is undoubtedly good reason to believe that something else is contributing the the demise of the virus once it reaches a certain level of infection in any given population.

We already know for a fact that infection itself has an extremely wide and varied effect on each individual, which ranges from no symptoms, to severe symptoms and death. To that extent, it would appear to make sense that there are widely ranging differences in individual immune response / resistance to the disease.

We also know that the disease is very likely spread by a small number of mainly symptomatic 'super-spreaders' and that asymptomatic cases potentially make up a very signifcant number of those affected.

SEIR modelling has suggested that much higher levels of antibodies were anticipated within certain populations based upon the studied progress of the virus.

So a number of reaasonable possibilities exist regarding the immunity of the population...

1. It's possible that more people have gained antibody immunity and the existing tests have not been sensitive enough.

2. It's possible that people have some inate or crossover immunity and perhaps do not develop antibodes.

3. It's possible that only a limited proportion of those infected are infectious or at least infectious enough to contribute to signifcant widespread infection and proliferation of the disease.

Of course there may be a whole range of other factors, such as age profile, population density, climate, vitamin D levels, pollution levels and action to prevent transmission which will impact on the virus cycle in any population.
 
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The "vast majority of the population is still susceptible" to Covid-19, the Government's Chief Scientific Advisor has warned.




Edit:

The video has been changed, the point I was referencing was at 20.31, the revised point seems to be about 10 seconds earlier.

Edit 2:

now about 18.20.
 
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