Critchley since Aston Villa

Legendary NFL coach Tom Landry suffered 5 consecutive losing seasons when appointed head coach of the Dallas Cowboys in 1960 including an 0-11 record in his first year, Dallas refused to sack him and their patience was rewarded as they were a perennial contender with a winning record for the following 21 years winning Superbowls and Conference Champion games on a regular basis.

Will SS and the fans have the same patience or does he just get binned off at Xmas if we don't improve?
 
Raging_Bull said:
Legendary NFL coach Tom Landry suffered 5 consecutive losing seasons when appointed head coach of the Dallas Cowboys in 1960 including an 0-11 record in his first year, Dallas refused to sack him and their patience was rewarded as they were a perennial contender with a winning record for the following 21 years winning Superbowls and Conference Champion games on a regular basis.

Will SS and the fans have the same patience or does he just get binned off at Xmas if we don't improve?
Click to expand...
November
 
Raging_Bull said:
Legendary NFL coach Tom Landry suffered 5 consecutive losing seasons when appointed head coach of the Dallas Cowboys in 1960 including an 0-11 record in his first year, Dallas refused to sack him and their patience was rewarded as they were a perennial contender with a winning record for the following 21 years winning Superbowls and Conference Champion games on a regular basis.

Will SS and the fans have the same patience or does he just get binned off at Xmas if we don't improve?
Click to expand...
Oh god I hope it’s long before Christmas there’s no time like the present
 
Raging_Bull said:
Legendary NFL coach Tom Landry suffered 5 consecutive losing seasons when appointed head coach of the Dallas Cowboys in 1960 including an 0-11 record in his first year, Dallas refused to sack him and their patience was rewarded as they were a perennial contender with a winning record for the following 21 years winning Superbowls and Conference Champion games on a regular basis.

Will SS and the fans have the same patience or does he just get binned off at Xmas if we don't improve?
Click to expand...
Sshh! Sadler reads this forum!
 
Here's a break down of league results for Critch with and without Calderwood and McCall since the start of the 20/21 season...

Critch/Gerrity (L1&Champ)
P43 W13 D10 L20 (49/129 or 38% points)

Critch/Cald (L1)
P40 W23 D11 L6 (80/120 or 67%)

Critch/McCall (Champ)
P19 W7 D6 L6 (27/57 or 47%)

Which looks very conclusive BUT...

Calderwood arrived after the 9 game period of bedding in a whole new squad.

We signed players around the same time. Ballard and Dougall iirc. And more in January, Simms and Embleton.

In the Championship McCall left 25 Nov and our form held pretty well til relegation was mathematically impossible.

Calderwood and McCall both spoke well of Critch. Neither has had huge success as a no.1.

I am of the opinion though that Critch has weaknesses as well as strengths and he needs to be smarter in choosing his number 2s. Find someone who has attributes and experience he lacks.
 
voyeur said:
Here's a break down of league results for Critch with and without Calderwood and McCall since the start of the 20/21 season...

Critch/Gerrity (L1&Champ)
P43 W13 D10 L20 (49/129 or 38% points)

Critch/Cald (L1)
P40 W23 D11 L6 (80/120 or 67%)

Critch/McCall (Champ)
P19 W7 D6 L6 (27/57 or 47%)

Which looks very conclusive BUT...

Calderwood arrived after the 9 game period of bedding in a whole new squad.

We signed players around the same time. Ballard and Dougall iirc. And more in January, Simms and Embleton.

In the Championship McCall left 25 Nov and our form held pretty well til relegation was mathematically impossible.

Calderwood and McCall both spoke well of Critch. Neither has had huge success as a no.1.

I am of the opinion though that Critch has weaknesses as well as strengths and he needs to be smarter in choosing his number 2s. Find someone who has attributes and experience he lacks.
Click to expand...
In other words, he’s no good as a manager unless he has someone who’s better than him at number 2
 
Matesrates said:
I know, but that’s the case as far as I’m concerned
Click to expand...
Well it's not the case. In what way are they better? Not as number 1s they're not.

In 21/22 our records with and without McCall were pretty much the same.

So explain that.

The stats dont really prove anything in all honesty. Calderwood was with us at the optimum time. Team bedded in by Critch in L1 with a strong set of players, strengthened again in January. But some people give him all the credit.
 
Last edited:
Folk will always choose the stats (along with the interpretation of those stats) to suit their (already formed) opinion.

So to put it in the most succinct terms possible, this thread is a load of bollocks.

“Critchley’s record, with the bits that don’t suit my own agenda excluded”

Ah is that how it works…

Should I do a thread of Critchley’s record excluding the losses and draws? 😂
 
voyeur said:
Well it's not the case. In what way are they better? Not as number 1s they're not.

In 21/22 our records with and without McCall were pretty much the same.

So explain that.

The stats dont really price anything. Calderwood was with us at the optimum time. Team bedded in by Critch in L1 with a strong set of players, strengthened again in January.
Click to expand...
I don’t disagree, I just think Critch is over promoted and should be a number 2
 
Matesrates said:
I don’t disagree, I just think Critch is over promoted and should be a number 2
Click to expand...
I'd just say he benefits from having someone hardened by a career in the game who can suggest things and offer a pragmatic view that the players can relate to. Critch Garrity Brunskill are all from the same pod pretty much. Without much playing experience.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Folk will always choose the stats (along with the interpretation of those stats) to suit their (already formed) opinion.

So to put it in the most succinct terms possible, this thread is a load of bollocks.

“Critchley’s record, with the bits that don’t suit my own agenda excluded”

Ah is that how it works…

Should I do a thread of Critchley’s record excluding the losses and draws? 😂
Click to expand...
Don’t need stats you just need a pair of eyes to tell you what you need to know about this season
 
voyeur said:
Here's a break down of league results for Critch with and without Calderwood and McCall since the start of the 20/21 season...

Critch/Gerrity (L1&Champ)
P43 W13 D10 L20 (49/129 or 38% points)

Critch/Cald (L1)
P40 W23 D11 L6 (80/120 or 67%)

Critch/McCall (Champ)
P19 W7 D6 L6 (27/57 or 47%)

Which looks very conclusive BUT...

Calderwood arrived after the 9 game period of bedding in a whole new squad.

We signed players around the same time. Ballard and Dougall iirc. And more in January, Simms and Embleton.

In the Championship McCall left 25 Nov and our form held pretty well til relegation was mathematically impossible.

Calderwood and McCall both spoke well of Critch. Neither has had huge success as a no.1.

I am of the opinion though that Critch has weaknesses as well as strengths and he needs to be smarter in choosing his number 2s. Find someone who has attributes and experience he lacks.
Click to expand...
You are right to mention the bedding in period. It could also be mentioned of a new manager bounce. However, the need for the No 2 shows the bedding in period wasn't going well. At the end of the champ season, you could argue they were all on the beach and NC knew what was coming.

The bottom line with the stats is Calderwood produced improved results and that there is nothing in those stats to suggest his ilk isn't required now.

I'm really surprised SS couldn't see that.
 
fcblackpool said:
You are right to mention the bedding in period. It could also be mentioned of a new manager bounce. However, the need for the No 2 shows the bedding in period wasn't going well. At the end of the champ season, you could argue they were all on the beach and NC knew what was coming.

The bottom line with the stats is Calderwood produced improved results and that there is nothing in those stats to suggest his ilk isn't required now.

I'm really surprised SS couldn't see that.
Click to expand...
That's just one interpretation of the stats though. This has been done a million times. How big a factor was Calderwood? I've no idea but I suspect it can be and has been overstated, by some. But it feels from these 7 games at the start of this season that Critch does need someone in his ear telling him to stop arsing about. Is that an effect of his last 12 months or is that just how he is? Or is it just our perception from the outside?
 
voyeur said:
That's just one interpretation of the stats though. This has been done a million times. How big a factor was Calderwood? I've no idea but I suspect it can be and has been overstated, by some. But it feels from these 7 games at the start of this season that Critch does need someone in his ear telling him to stop arsing about. Is that an effect of his last 12 months or is that just how he is? Or is it just our perception from the outside?
Click to expand...
Personally I think that's how he is.

And yes he needs someone in, but wasn't this obvious before he was signed up? I thinks so.
 
fcblackpool said:
Personally I think that's how he is.

And yes he needs someone in, but wasn't this obvious before he was signed up? I thinks so.
Click to expand...
Its obvious to you cos you've always had the view that he cant do it without. But he did ok after McCall left in November 21. Through to April 22. And we were actually worse without him, under 2 experienced managers!
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Folk will always choose the stats (along with the interpretation of those stats) to suit their (already formed) opinion.

So to put it in the most succinct terms possible, this thread is a load of bollocks.

“Critchley’s record, with the bits that don’t suit my own agenda excluded”

Ah is that how it works…

Should I do a thread of Critchley’s record excluding the losses and draws? 😂
Click to expand...
One persons bollocks is another persons recent form stats…win percentage is quite a common marker of performance overall and if anything 20 odd competitive games as evidence of recent form is a larger sample than the norm of last 10 games. I think your contribution is bollocks built on your absolute backing for Critchley.

Do you not agree that his win percentage based on his games since Aston Villa needs to go up?
 
voyeur said:
Its obvious to you cos you've always had the view that he cant do it without. But he did ok after McCall left in November 21. Through to April 22. And we were actually worse without him, under 2 experienced managers!
Click to expand...
You could argue that McCall was so influential in setting up the way we play that NC had no valid reason to change it and no real need to (the 2 are separate).

That's the problem with stats. You can always bring in factors that influence them without them having any quantifiability. Sometimes best to take the base stats on face value (if they suit your agenda that is).
 
clappers said:
One persons bollocks is another persons recent form stats…win percentage is quite a common marker of performance overall and if anything 20 odd competitive games as evidence of recent form is a larger sample than the norm of last 10 games. I think your contribution is bollocks built on your absolute backing for Critchley.

Do you not agree that his win percentage based on his games since Aston Villa needs to go up?
Click to expand...
Win percentage is a common marker, but you’re essentially choosing a very ‘selective’ win percentage.

Other people might (for example) choose to ignore his time at QPR because they have been a complete basket case, but that would be equally as stupid as ignoring the rest of his record.

I’m not interested in what happened at Aston Villa or at QPR, I’m interested in his record at Blackpool, in circumstances that I can reconcile.

In that regard, I’m aware of what he’s capable of, I’ve seen him endure and subsequently turn around a run of poor results (on more than one occasion), I can see that we’re not a million miles away in terms of performances (similar to historically).. and so I’m confident that the results will come at some point.
 
fcblackpool said:
You could argue that McCall was so influential in setting up the way we play that NC had no valid reason to change it and no real need to (the 2 are separate).

That's the problem with stats. You can always bring in factors that influence them without them having any quantifiability. Sometimes best to take the base stats on face value (if they suit your agenda that is).
Click to expand...
You could argue anythjng, thats the point. The people closest to it should have a much better feel for how things really are.

It's up to them to judge it and act accordingly and they need to do that better than they have over the last year or so. What's needed at the club is people who can make these calls and get them right more often. Maybe the newer people can.
 
voyeur said:
That's just one interpretation of the stats though. This has been done a million times. How big a factor was Calderwood? I've no idea but I suspect it can be and has been overstated, by some. But it feels from these 7 games at the start of this season that Critch does need someone in his ear telling him to stop arsing about. Is that an effect of his last 12 months or is that just how he is? Or is it just our perception from the outside?
Click to expand...
Wouldnt having a word with Critchley when things aren't working be part of David Downes role?
 
fcblackpool said:
You are right to mention the bedding in period. It could also be mentioned of a new manager bounce. However, the need for the No 2 shows the bedding in period wasn't going well. At the end of the champ season, you could argue they were all on the beach and NC knew what was coming.

The bottom line with the stats is Calderwood produced improved results and that there is nothing in those stats to suggest his ilk isn't required now.

I'm really surprised SS couldn't see that.
Click to expand...
I've heard it said that SS was the biggest advocate for McCarthy being appointed, if that's true then I would seriously question his judgement on all football related issues.
 
I get all the bombs aimed at Critchley. But what are we to do? Sadler loves him. We have to cheer on the team and grit our teeth. Bloody difficult at the moment, I'll grant you.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
I get all the bombs aimed at Critchley. But what are we to do? Sadler loves him. We have to cheer on the team and grit our teeth. Bloody difficult at the moment, I'll grant you.
Click to expand...
Not so much at Bloomfield though is it?

P4 W2 D2 L0 F4 A0 Pts 8

We've had 2 bad away days. Tough on those who went.
 
voyeur said:
Maybe. But what about Julian Winter?
Click to expand...
I'm just thinking of the chain of command, if Downes is Head of Football or whatever his title is I'm guessing he would be the first one to have a chat with Critchley, but I'm fairly sure Winter has some input aswell.
 
We aren’t scoring. We are conceding. And the win percentage is dropping. If you aren’t worried it’s just blind faith in Critchley based on the distant past when he managed us before. Just like Grayson mark 2 it’s non winning and boring.

The point of the thread isn’t to prove anything. It’s a useful benchmark from here on in, based on his performance since leaving the first time. If this particular win percentage doesn’t improve we are in real trouble…it absolutely has to get no worse.
 
Last edited:
Raging_Bull said:
Legendary NFL coach Tom Landry suffered 5 consecutive losing seasons when appointed head coach of the Dallas Cowboys in 1960 including an 0-11 record in his first year, Dallas refused to sack him and their patience was rewarded as they were a perennial contender with a winning record for the following 21 years winning Superbowls and Conference Champion games on a regular basis.

Will SS and the fans have the same patience or does he just get binned off at Xmas if we don't improve?
Click to expand...
It's a very good observation but the economics have vastly altered and I don't think the club can afford a lengthy phase of mediocrity and being in league one. It just doesn't make any business sense. I would act at the end of November so as to give a new man a chance to succeed this season. It's a tough one as teams do take awhile to gel but I think the rumors of the club being up for sale would be true if we continue to flounder in the old division three bleeding pound notes.
 
My two teams (Blackpool and England) both have two "safety first" managers and it is so frustrating, the big difference is the talent pool available to Southgate is much bigger.
 
That stat the in the OP post above was my biggest fear when we got NC back. Since leaving us he he has been on a downward spiral and not in good form. You normally never back a horse that’s in bad form.

I really hope for his and more importantly for the clubs sake, he picks this form up or he’ll end up like another Grayson. On the scrap heap because he has failed at his last 3 to 4 jobs.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top