Design your own economic theory

1966_and_all_that

1966_and_all_that

Well-known member
1. The Government has been clear. Wages must not be allowed to rise unchecked because, during this cost of living crisis, higher wages will not be put into savings when the extra money is needed to cover rising food, energy and housing costs. Large wage rises would result in excessive money growth in the economy, thereby compounding cost-push inflationary pressures with demand-pull factors.

2. Conservative leadership candidates are all agreed that the country needs significant tax cuts. Some even believing that they should borrow huge sums in order to deliver them. They argue that the additional money this puts into people's pockets will not be put into savings because it is needed to cover rising food, energy and housing costs during the cost of living crisis. Of course, this increase in the money supply would result in excessive money growth in the economy, thereby compounding cost-push inflationary pressures with demand-pull factors.

Tweedle-Dum meet Tweedle-Dee.
 
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how do you break from 50 years of a global economic system / model that is entirely built on the faith based proposition that money going to the top 5% or so eventually trickles down the socio economic tree, which of course it doesnt. The policies have to be more and more extreme, until it snaps. The current cost of living crisis isnt the result of Covid, brexit and a few other short term things, it is the cumulative effects of fifty years of extreme supply side, libertarian economic policies.

I've done some work on how to break out of it, no matter how I build the model I cannot find a way out where normal working people (even quite wealthy) dont pay a very heavy price.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
1. The Government has been clear. Wages must not be allowed to rise unchecked because, during this cost of living crisis, higher wages will not be put into savings when the extra money is needed to cover rising food, energy and housing costs. Large wage rises would result in excessive money growth in the economy, thereby compounding cost-push inflationary pressures with demand-pull factors.

2. Conservative leadership candidates are all agreed that the country needs significant tax cuts. Some even believing that they should borrow huge sums in order to deliver them. They argue that the additional money this puts into people's pockets will not be put into savings because it is needed to cover rising food, energy and housing costs duting the cost of living crisis. Of course, this increase in the money supply would result in excessive money growth in the economy, thereby compounding cost-push inflationary pressures with demand-pull factors.

Tweedle-Dum meet Tweedle-Dee.
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Can’t be arsed….
 
Bamber said:
Tax cuts do not increase the money supply.
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They do. Taxation is a take out of the economy that the Government can choose to hold at the Bank of England as a cooling measure if it wants. Leaving it out in the economy, where it will be increased 'n' fold via the multiplier of purchasing goods and services causing an increase in the M3 money supply.
 
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1966_and_all_that said:
1. The Government has been clear. Wages must not be allowed to rise unchecked because, during this cost of living crisis, higher wages will not be put into savings when the extra money is needed to cover rising food, energy and housing costs. Large wage rises would result in excessive money growth in the economy, thereby compounding cost-push inflationary pressures with demand-pull factors.

2. Conservative leadership candidates are all agreed that the country needs significant tax cuts. Some even believing that they should borrow huge sums in order to deliver them. They argue that the additional money this puts into people's pockets will not be put into savings because it is needed to cover rising food, energy and housing costs duting the cost of living crisis. Of course, this increase in the money supply would result in excessive money growth in the economy, thereby compounding cost-push inflationary pressures with demand-pull factors.

Tweedle-Dum meet Tweedle-Dee.
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In the knowledge of 10% inflation and the cost of living crisis, DWP staff have had a 2% payrise imposed, following a previous 13 years of below inflation 'rises'

What a set of twats.
 
Costero Poderoso said:
how do you break from 50 years of a global economic system / model that is entirely built on the faith based proposition that money going to the top 5% or so eventually trickles down the socio economic tree, which of course it doesnt. The policies have to be more and more extreme, until it snaps. The current cost of living crisis isnt the result of Covid, brexit and a few other short term things, it is the cumulative effects of fifty years of extreme supply side, libertarian economic policies.

I've done some work on how to break out of it, no matter how I build the model I cannot find a way out where normal working people (even quite wealthy) dont pay a very heavy price.
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Reduce the potential for supply-side libertarian economic policies, perhaps. Return the key infrastructure industries to public ownership, legislate to reduce the amout of offshore production allowed by British registered companies, impose weighted tax rules on the ownership of non-productive tangible assets and tighten the Bank of England's control of "near money", the mechanisms favoured by financial institutions for acquiring and manoeuvering assets.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
Reduce the potential for supply-side libertarian economic policies, perhaps. Return the key infrastructure industries to public ownership, legislate to reduce the amout of offshore production allowed by British registered companies, impose weighted tax rules on the ownership of non-productive tangible assets and tighten the Bank of England's control of "near money", the mechanisms favoured by financial institutions for acquiring and manoeuvering assets.
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All of the above, completely agree but in the models ive looked at, the balancing act to rectify the issues, seems to only impact poor and working people.
 
Wizaard said:
In the knowledge of 10% inflation and the cost of living crisis, DWP staff have had a 2% payrise imposed, following a previous 13 years of below inflation 'rises'

What a set of twats.
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Does "if it saves one life" not stretch to a below inflation payrise for yours truly, Wiz? 😄
 
Costero Poderoso said:
how do you break from 50 years of a global economic system / model that is entirely built on the faith based proposition that money going to the top 5% or so eventually trickles down the socio economic tree, which of course it doesnt. The policies have to be more and more extreme, until it snaps. The current cost of living crisis isnt the result of Covid, brexit and a few other short term things, it is the cumulative effects of fifty years of extreme supply side, libertarian economic policies.

I've done some work on how to break out of it, no matter how I build the model I cannot find a way out where normal working people (even quite wealthy) dont pay a very heavy price.
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It’s fairly easy, a windfall tax on the top 5%,
 
1966_and_all_that said:
Reduce the potential for supply-side libertarian economic policies, perhaps. Return the key infrastructure industries to public ownership, legislate to reduce the amout of offshore production allowed by British registered companies, impose weighted tax rules on the ownership of non-productive tangible assets and tighten the Bank of England's control of "near money", the mechanisms favoured by financial institutions for acquiring and manoeuvering assets.
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What he said. Thanks for saving me the trouble 66 👍
 
seasideone said:
Genuine question…

If you haven’t (and I am not disputing what you say) - why are you still there??
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the vast majority of people have not had an inflation proof rise in that time, one of the core insecurities in the banking system in the west is that in genral the only way people get a pay rise is by changing jobs.
 
Surely rishi magic money tree has been handed on….
Short by 200mill this month..? No problem just print more money? Is that not what they always do? 😎
 
seasideone said:
Typical lefties - keep taking off the successful and you think they will stay around.

High tax generally brings lower tax revenues.

Investment and growth are the answer NOT high taxes and windfall taxes.
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low tax also brings in lower tax revenues, the empirical studies show tax even as low as 12% doesnt stop corporates and the very wealthy from avoiding taxation.

the Us when it was at its most economically successful, success being defined as participation in civil and economic society and the creation of wealth across society (ignoring the US racism issue for the moment) had a marginal tax rate of 92%.

In the decades since Reagan introduced voodoo economics, the wealth gap has grown exponentially, more people are on minimum wage, more people are unable to afford education and health, and the prediction is that the wealth distributed to the current Boomer generation will have been transferred back to the top 5% within the next 15 years.
 
Costero Poderoso said:
the vast majority of people have not had an inflation proof rise in that time, one of the core insecurities in the banking system in the west is that in genral the only way people get a pay rise is by changing jobs.
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Not sure that’s correct.

If you are talking about the public sector probably - but private companies??
 
seasideone said:
Typical lefties - keep taking off the successful and you think they will stay around.

High tax generally brings lower tax revenues.

Investment and growth are the answer NOT high taxes and windfall taxes.
Click to expand...
The first paragraph of your post says a lot about you, the 2nd and 3rd paragraph are straight from the Daily Telegraph playbook. I wonder why the billionaire Barclay brothers Telegraph owners want to keep that philosophy alive?
Investment? When will that happen the new prospective tory leaders are clamouring for tax cuts, private investment post brexit has dropped. Productivity is low in this country, one of the reasons is poor transport links, all motorways are generally jammed and rail is getting worse by the year (as long as the tories give those commie railway workers a bloody nose though)
 
1966_and_all_that said:
1. The Government has been clear. Wages must not be allowed to rise unchecked because, during this cost of living crisis, higher wages will not be put into savings when the extra money is needed to cover rising food, energy and housing costs. Large wage rises would result in excessive money growth in the economy, thereby compounding cost-push inflationary pressures with demand-pull factors.

2. Conservative leadership candidates are all agreed that the country needs significant tax cuts. Some even believing that they should borrow huge sums in order to deliver them. They argue that the additional money this puts into people's pockets will not be put into savings because it is needed to cover rising food, energy and housing costs duting the cost of living crisis. Of course, this increase in the money supply would result in excessive money growth in the economy, thereby compounding cost-push inflationary pressures with demand-pull factors.

Tweedle-Dum meet Tweedle-Dee.
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You live and breathe through the AVFTT Lung don’t you mate?
 
seasideone said:
Not sure that’s correct.

If you are talking about the public sector probably - but private companies??
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Of course it is. Move jobs and get a good payrise, stay put and you'll get the minimum, I've experienced it many times. And when you hand your notice in your current employer suddenly finds the extra cash, too late bye!
 
seasideone said:
Typical lefties - keep taking off the successful and you think they will stay around.

High tax generally brings lower tax revenues.

Investment and growth are the answer NOT high taxes and windfall taxes.
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They are also not incompatible. I really liked your climate change post but I feel that you're back on the hunt again.
 
Costero Poderoso said:
low tax also brings in lower tax revenues, the empirical studies show tax even as low as 12% doesnt stop corporates and the very wealthy from avoiding taxation.

the Us when it was at its most economically successful, success being defined as participation in civil and economic society and the creation of wealth across society (ignoring the US racism issue for the moment) had a marginal tax rate of 92%.

In the decades since Reagan introduced voodoo economics, the wealth gap has grown exponentially, more people are on minimum wage, more people are unable to afford education and health, and the prediction is that the wealth distributed to the current Boomer generation will have been transferred back to the top 5% within the next 15 years.
Click to expand...
Costero Poderoso said:
low tax also brings in lower tax revenues, the empirical studies show tax even as low as 12% doesnt stop corporates and the very wealthy from avoiding taxation.

the Us when it was at its most economically successful, success being defined as participation in civil and economic society and the creation of wealth across society (ignoring the US racism issue for the moment) had a marginal tax rate of 92%.

In the decades since Reagan introduced voodoo economics, the wealth gap has grown exponentially, more people are on minimum wage, more people are unable to afford education and health, and the prediction is that the wealth distributed to the current Boomer generation will have been transferred back to the top 5% within the next 15 years.
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You need to look at more detail than just picking 12% - there is a balance and probably the best way of showing this is the Laffer Curve - and no I didn’t make that name up!!!

Reagan had to deal with inflation and kept interest rates high to deal with this - even though it was unpopular.

George Bush while running against Reagan for the nomination in 1980 called Reagans opinions of economics Voodoo but reality is it wasn’t true.

Not like a Bush to talk rubbish - although this one was better than his son!!!

Health is free in the UK and so is education up until 18, and yes it should probably be older - but why in the hell should the country pay for someone to do a degree in something that doesn’t benefit the country as a whole.

I am sure someone somewhere can come up with a reason why we should fund degrees in progressive dance -but personally I would happily pay for for doctors, engineers etc - although I appreciate this is my opinion driven on what is important.
 
Shandypants said:
Of course it is. Move jobs and get a good payrise, stay put and you'll get the minimum, I've experienced it many times. And when you hand your notice in your current employer suddenly finds the extra cash, too late bye!
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You should never accept a counter offer - if they didn’t value you before it’s time to do one.

Most good companies I know treat staff well and pay them well - I appreciate that’s not everybody!
 
Shandypants said:
The first paragraph of your post says a lot about you, the 2nd and 3rd paragraph are straight from the Daily Telegraph playbook. I wonder why the billionaire Barclay brothers Telegraph owners want to keep that philosophy alive?
Investment? When will that happen the new prospective tory leaders are clamouring for tax cuts, private investment post brexit has dropped. Productivity is low in this country, one of the reasons is poor transport links, all motorways are generally jammed and rail is getting worse by the year (as long as the tories give those commie railway workers a bloody nose though)
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The more Tax you take out of the system the less the private sector can invest - which in turn creates jobs, growth and more tax revenues.

It is a balance but lefties just don’t get it!!
 
seasideone said:
The more Tax you take out of the system the less the private sector can invest - which in turn creates jobs, growth and more tax revenues.

It is a balance but lefties just don’t get it!!
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No, low tax does not encourage the private sector to invest, every single tax reduction that has been given across anglo economies, had been empirically shown to go 90% (more or less) to proppping up or increasing assets assets for the most wealthy, that isnt even a contestable argument anymore.
 
seasideone said:
You need to look at more detail than just picking 12% - there is a balance and probably the best way of showing this is the Laffer Curve - and no I didn’t make that name up!!!

Reagan had to deal with inflation and kept interest rates high to deal with this - even though it was unpopular.

George Bush while running against Reagan for the nomination in 1980 called Reagans opinions of economics Voodoo but reality is it wasn’t true.

Not like a Bush to talk rubbish - although this one was better than his son!!!

Health is free in the UK and so is education up until 18, and yes it should probably be older - but why in the hell should the country pay for someone to do a degree in something that doesn’t benefit the country as a whole.

I am sure someone somewhere can come up with a reason why we should fund degrees in progressive dance -but personally I would happily pay for for doctors, engineers etc - although I appreciate this is my opinion driven on what is important.
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Laffer is a supply side theory, it has about as much credibility as flat earth and creation science.
 
Costero Poderoso said:
No, low tax does not encourage the private sector to invest, every single tax reduction that has been given across anglo economies, had been empirically shown to go 90% (more or less) to proppping up or increasing assets assets for the most wealthy, that isnt even a contestable argument anymore.
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I have to disagree with you here as it’s simply not true.

The more free cash we had available the more we invested to create jobs.as many companies I personally know did.

When you increase the tax burden people work less and like many - I did one to a better tax jurisdiction.

As I have said many times Lefties don’t get it.

Drive away the job creators and the country is fcked even more than it is now!!!
 
seasideone said:
Typical lefties - keep taking off the successful and you think they will stay around.

High tax generally brings lower tax revenues.

Investment and growth are the answer NOT high taxes and windfall taxes.
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So you're suggesting that those who make a lot of money are also those who will fuck off like traitors at the first sign that they have to pay their way?
 
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SEASIDE2020 said:
seasideone should be running the country.
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His mates have been for the last 12 years and look at the mess they have made of it. All this "we need to look after the rich cos they will invest " has been discredited in every major economy, it is a fantasy. Look at the good old UK, how much national wealth has been moved to the billionaires in the last two years.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
So you're suggesting that those who make a lot of money are also those who will fuck off like traitors at the first sign that they have to pay their way?
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It’s your definition of ‘pay their way’ I would argue against.

I have paid a very significant amount in UK tax over the years - there comes a point when you say ‘enough is enough.’
 
seasideone said:
It’s your definition of ‘pay their way’ I would argue against.

I have paid a very significant amount in UK tax over the years - there comes a point when you say ‘enough is enough.’
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'Enough is enough and even though this is the country that enabled me to make my money it can now fuck off while I preach to everyone else'?

I suppose nurses/care workers/ambulance drivers/firemen...can just get another job if they don't like what is effectively a pay cut, like you suggested above?
 
1966_and_all_that said:
I think there are good people who post on here. There are going to be good people who read stuff on here but who don't post. I don't do any other social media so yes, I post on here and enjoy it.
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My only point is that you won’t change anyone’s opinion on a little read social media platform. If you enjoy posting exclusively on left wing politics/socialist principles then that’s fair enough but it can be repetitive and one dimensional don’t you think?
 
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