Design your own economic theory

Lytham_fy8 said:
'Enough is enough and even though this is the country that enabled me to make my money it can now fuck off while I preach to everyone else'?

I suppose nurses can just get another job if they don't like what is effectively a pay cut, like you suggested above?
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It’s not just the UK that makes money - we were active all over the place - due to the high tax burden in the UK we invested more elsewhere.

We still paid serious tax amounts in the UK, I just decided when I sold I wasn’t giving HMRC a large percentage of what I worked for - and is effectively my pension.

I will let you crack on taking the piss out of the UK population while walking the dog etc while you are working from home.

Your words not mine on a previous post 👍
 
Tangerinemoss said:
His mates have been for the last 12 years and look at the mess they have made of it. All this "we need to look after the rich cos they will invest " has been discredited in every major economy, it is a fantasy. Look at the good old UK, how much national wealth has been moved to the billionaires in the last two years.
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You don't have to vote for him.

If we are down to Sunak, Truss, Mordaunt and seasideone, I'll take seasideone every day of the week.

He probably wouldn't be willing to take a paycut and I'm not sure he'd be happy enough with the relocation expenses so no need to lose any sleep.
 
seasideone said:
It’s not just the UK that makes money - we were active all over the place - due to the high tax burden in the UK we invested more elsewhere.

We still paid serious tax amounts in the UK, I just decided when I sold I wasn’t giving HMRC a large percentage of what I worked for - and is effectively my pension.

I will let you crack on taking the piss out of the UK population while walking the dog etc while you are working from home.

Your words not mine on a previous post 👍
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The difference is I was clearly joking, everyone else seemed to notice, I'll put it in an ironic font for you next time, unfortunately your preaching doesn't appear to be quite so tongue in cheek despite being ripe for it.
 
SEASIDE2020 said:
You don't have to vote for him.

If we are down to Sunak, Truss, Mordaunt and seasideone, I'll take seasideone every day of the week.

He probably wouldn't be willing to take a paycut and I'm not sure he'd be happy enough with the relocation expenses so no need to lose any sleep.
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He'd enjoy Farnborough. 😉
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
The difference is I was clearly joking, everyone else seemed to notice, I'll put it in an ironic font for you next time, unfortunately your preaching doesn't appear to be quite so tongue in cheek despite being ripe for it.
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Many a true word is said in jest 👍
 
1966_and_all_that said:
Boris has skipped two Cobra meetings about the high temperatures in order to do the Farnborough air show. A sort of, fuck the country, I'm leaving anyway.
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Thanks 66, I saw Boris in the house yesterday but I'm clearly not up with the news.

To be fair to Boris, I'd rather go to Farnborough than a meeting about 2 days of hot weather and I don't even like airshows.
 
seasideone said:
Typical lefties - keep taking off the successful and you think they will stay around.

High tax generally brings lower tax revenues.

Investment and growth are the answer NOT high taxes and windfall taxes.
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You do know that VAT, applicable on all business and commercial transactions, is a regressive tax that penalises the poor more than the wealthy? You do realise that, at 19%, the UK's Corporation Tax is the lowest ever in the UK and the sixth lowest in the world? I also take it you are fully aware that purchase tax on shares is 0.5% and that transfer clearance tax is 1.5%? But hey, we don't want to punish the holders of capital do we when the poorest can bear the burden.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
You do know that VAT, applicable on all business and commercial transactions, is a regressive tax that penalises the poor more than the wealthy? You do realise that, at 19%, the UK's Corporation Tax is the lowest ever in the UK and the sixth lowest in the world? I also take it you are fully aware that purchase tax on shares is 0.5% and that transfer clearance tax is 1.5%? But hey, we don't want to punish the holders of capital do we when the poorest can bear the burden.
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VAT is an abomination and taxes the poor more than the wealthy - I think it’s wrong.

Corp tax is low -(for now) - but let’s throw in dividend tax as well and it’s not as good as you make out.

Then there is CGT which for me is as criminal as VAT.

It is never as simple as it’s made out!!!
 
seasideone said:
VAT is an abomination and taxes the poor more than the wealthy - I think it’s wrong.

Corp tax is low -(for now) - but let’s throw in dividend tax as well and it’s not as good as you make out.

Then there is CGT which for me is as criminal as VAT.

It is never as simple as it’s made out!!!
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And yet the people & businesses that pay CGT never seem to find themselves destitute because of it.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
Either way, I'm paying tax and haven't fucked off to count my pennies, so probably have a bit more in the game than some others.
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It’s all relative - I’ve paid significant amounts in UK tax so if I return I will not feel guilty 👍

I’ve just never cheated an employer 😉
 
seasideone said:
I have to disagree with you here as it’s simply not true.

The more free cash we had available the more we invested to create jobs.as many companies I personally know did.

When you increase the tax burden people work less and like many - I did one to a better tax jurisdiction.

As I have said many times Lefties don’t get it.

Drive away the job creators and the country is fcked even more than it is now!!!
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Whatever would we have done if Phil Collins had left as he threatened for example?
 
seasideone said:
The more Tax you take out of the system the less the private sector can invest - which in turn creates jobs, growth and more tax revenues.

It is a balance but lefties just don’t get it!!
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The private sector hadn't been investing, that's part of the problem - we've got stagflation. With extremely low interest rates the private sector has been buying up properties and seeing their values shoot up to the stars. Why risk investment when you can print money on the Monopoly board?
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
The difference is I was clearly joking, everyone else seemed to notice, I'll put it in an ironic font for you next time, unfortunately your preaching doesn't appear to be quite so tongue in cheek despite being ripe for it.
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Now there's a thought...which font exudes irony? I think I'll go to sleep musing over that one. Well, it's that or Sigourney Weaver in Galaxy Quest again.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
If that helps you sleep at night.
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I sleep well knowing how many lives I made better while in business.

I have always paid taxes in every country that I have operated in and easily within the rules - I don’t bend the rules and stick to them religiously both personally and business wise.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
The private sector hadn't been investing, that's part of the problem - we've got stagflation. With extremely low interest rates the private sector has been buying up properties and seeing their values shoot up to the stars. Why risk investment when you can print money on the Monopoly board?
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Printing money is what has caused this bloody mess.
 
Bloodtangerine said:
My only point is that you won’t change anyone’s opinion on a little read social media platform. If you enjoy posting exclusively on left wing politics/socialist principles then that’s fair enough but it can be repetitive and one dimensional don’t you think?
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I post what I believe to be the better way of doing things. That this aligns with left wing thinking is no accident but it isn't a slavish, knee-jerk response. If I and others on the left were only sounding off on our own, you might have a point. But you know very well that there are plenty right wingers on here who are always ready to shout their 'truth' to the rest if us.
 
seasideone said:
That’s a very very very poor argument - in fact it’s not even an argument.

You are better than that!
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OK, the laffer curve can be used to indicate tax cuts on any part of the curve, it is a theory based on recieved wisdom at the very best, and its root is presuppositional belief that low tax stimulates growth. Its actually a direct lift from some 14th century soothsayer, who had little or no evidence for the opinion either.

There is no direct empirical correlation between tax and growth, for every low tax economy with high growth, there is another one with low or no growth, and several high tax economies that have long term stable growth. According to Laffer himself you cannot use the curve to show when it is time to raise taxes. On every level it is a system used to justify lowering taxes for the very wealthy at every single point in an economic cycle - economy doing well - lower taxes to maintain economic benefits. economy stagnating - lower taxes to stimulate growth. economy shrinking - lower taxes to launch a recovery. Thats why it has about as much credibility as flat earth.

There is another one called the phillips curve which connects inflation and unemployment, again simple recieved wisdom and a justification for libertarian supply side economics, and maintaining an insecure low wage economy for a majority of workers.

There is a direct correlation between modern tax cuts and asset value increases and there is a correlation between asset value increases and unemployemt but i havent seen anything that empirically concludes a causation. But based on the lack of real evidence in the Laffer theory i could easily come to the conclusion that tax cuts actually cause unemployment.

The fact that the figures for growth, inflation, unemployment are so manipulable calls into question most economic theories that try and connect these aspects. I make the claim elsewhere that the majority of economics is simply justification of faith in a system. Even keynsian economics is largely faith based, in that the tools of the economic theory are the outcomes.

The fact that both systems are still in frquent use as tools is astonishing.
 
Wizaard said:
None of those things happen. We're the laxest country in Europe on it, hence the influx of billionaires from all over the world.
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That’s absolute rubbish - many countries are worse - let’s start with Italy, Germany and France in Europe.

Please do your research.

Greece is pretty poor as well from memory - I am sure at one point they had more registered Ferrari owners than top tax payers!!!

I also think people need to understand the difference between Avoidance and Evasion as it is massive!!!!!
 
seasideone said:
Printing money is what has caused this bloody mess.
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Which printing of money. the QE of the early 90s for the property bubble, or the 2000's era QE for the dotcom crash, or the 2008 QE bailout in 2008, or the recent Covid one.

the 90s QE led to a boom (and crash), the 2000's one led to a huge economic boom (and crash), the 2008-10 has led to a masiive increase in asset values (and an imminent collapse) the Covid QE is the only one that has been put directly to workers (which apparently is fundamentally wrong).
 
seasideone said:
That’s absolute rubbish - many countries are worse - let’s start with Italy, Germany and France in Europe.

Please do your research.

Greece is pretty poor as well from memory - I am sure at one point they had more registered Ferrari owners than top tax payers!!!

I also think people need to understand the difference between Avoidance and Evasion as it is massive!!!!!
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first of all the UK is a a tax paradise for many large corporations and global billionaires, tax evasion is legitimised for those types. but Germany France and the US all have this issue. Italy is particularly problematic but there again Italy is basically one big black economy. Greece was / is similar but the difference was hardly anyone paid tax in greece.

The difference between avoidance and evasion is a legal definition, that is the only way it is massive. Apple holding several trillions of dollars off shore waiting for a sweetheart deal to repatriate the cash is actually evasion but legally at that point defined as tax avoidance.
 
Costero Poderoso said:
Which printing of money. the QE of the early 90s for the property bubble, or the 2000's era QE for the dotcom crash, or the 2008 QE bailout in 2008, or the recent Covid one.

the 90s QE led to a boom (and crash), the 2000's one led to a huge economic boom (and crash), the 2008-10 has led to a masiive increase in asset values (and an imminent collapse) the Covid QE is the only one that has been put directly to workers (which apparently is fundamentally wrong).
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I’ll reply later in detail as I am off for tea now and will also reply to your earlier long post.

The reality is the money supply has been increased so much it is causing all this.

The scale at what has been done this time is unbeleavable.

The only real solution is to devalue the US Dollar - which frankly will not happen.
 
Costero Poderoso said:
OK, the laffer curve can be used to indicate tax cuts on any part of the curve, it is a theory based on recieved wisdom at the very best, and its root is presuppositional belief that low tax stimulates growth. Its actually a direct lift from some 14th century soothsayer, who had little or no evidence for the opinion either.

There is no direct empirical correlation between tax and growth, for every low tax economy with high growth, there is another one with low or no growth, and several high tax economies that have long term stable growth. According to Laffer himself you cannot use the curve to show when it is time to raise taxes. On every level it is a system used to justify lowering taxes for the very wealthy at every single point in an economic cycle - economy doing well - lower taxes to maintain economic benefits. economy stagnating - lower taxes to stimulate growth. economy shrinking - lower taxes to launch a recovery. Thats why it has about as much credibility as flat earth.

There is another one called the phillips curve which connects inflation and unemployment, again simple recieved wisdom and a justification for libertarian supply side economics, and maintaining an insecure low wage economy for a majority of workers.

There is a direct correlation between modern tax cuts and asset value increases and there is a correlation between asset value increases and unemployemt but i havent seen anything that empirically concludes a causation. But based on the lack of real evidence in the Laffer theory i could easily come to the conclusion that tax cuts actually cause unemployment.

The fact that the figures for growth, inflation, unemployment are so manipulable calls into question most economic theories that try and connect these aspects. I make the claim elsewhere that the majority of economics is simply justification of faith in a system. Even keynsian economics is largely faith based, in that the tools of the economic theory are the outcomes.

The fact that both systems are still in frquent use as tools is astonishing.
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How dare you insult the dismal science in that way!

Actually, the Conservative-led Governments since 2012 have been doing somersaults with low business taxes in an effort to engender business investment. In fact, business in the macro-sense has taken the surplus profits created by these reductions, out of their businesses in the form of ever higher bonuses, salaries and dividendes, or using them to purchase real estate. Investment has remained sluggish.
 
Matesrates said:
Zero incom tax up to £30k, 15% up to the higher tax threshold, add 1% onto those above.
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Then you would do what:

1. Maintain public services through borrowing? How would that then be paid off?

2. Cut public services. But where? The police, the NHS, defence, social welfare, state pensions, public service wages and pensions, education or all of these?
 
1966_and_all_that said:
Then you would do what:

1. Maintain public services through borrowing? How would that then be paid off?

2. Cut public services. But where? The police, the NHS, defence, social welfare, state pensions, public service wages and pensions, education or all of these?
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Blimey it was just a suggestion and no, I don’t have any suggestions, if I did, I’d probably be chancellor. Do you have suggestions?
 
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