Dominic Cummings

ElBurroSinNombre said:
Why would Cummings make something up that is routinely recorded and can be checked and published easily? It would completely undermine everything else that he has said.
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Cummings appears to think that he and he alone should've been in charge of the pandemic response, he is creating a narrative that if that had happened:
  • he would've shut the borders in January (1.19 pm);
  • we would've been doing 5m tests per day by September (1.09 pm);
  • Test and Trace would've been set up in January (12.34 pm);
  • testing would've been a priority (12.19 pm);
  • plan would've been in place 6 weeks earlier (10.50 am);
  • pubs would've been shut early March (10.17 am);
  • lockdown 12 March (Guido 10.13 am);
  • vaccines "could've been done much faster" (10.12 am);
all timings per Telegraph live thread unless otherwise stated.

Hancock is part of the narrative, the Mighty Dom should've been appointed Lord Protector (11.37 am) precisely because Hancock was an incompetent liar who couldn't do the job.


ElBurroSinNombre said:
It must be on the record, so coming on here saying 'if it is true' is fundamentally pointless............................... It will be in the cabinet minutes.
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The minutes will not state as fact that Mr Hancock lied.

At most the minutes will show a statement that was incorrect, but was that a lie, or did Mr Hancock believe the statement to be correct?
 
Lost Seasider said:
Cummings appears to think that he and he alone should've been in charge of the pandemic response, he is creating a narrative that if that had happened:
  • he would've shut the borders in January (1.19 pm);
  • we would've been doing 5m tests per day by September (1.09 pm);
  • Test and Trace would've been set up in January (12.34 pm);
  • testing would've been a priority (12.19 pm);
  • plan would've been in place 6 weeks earlier (10.50 am);
  • pubs would've been shut early March (10.17 am);
  • lockdown 12 March (Guido 10.13 am);
  • vaccines "could've been done much faster" (10.12 am);
all timings per Telegraph live thread unless otherwise stated.

Hancock is part of the narrative, the Mighty Dom should've been appointed Lord Protector (11.37 am) precisely because Hancock was an incompetent liar who couldn't do the job.




The minutes will not state as fact that Mr Hancock lied.

At most the minutes will show a statement that was incorrect, but was that a lie, or did Mr Hancock believe the statement to be correct?
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Nice deflection once again.

Some would say that Cummings is reflecting honestly on what could have been done better. He has personally admitted to making many mistakes in the course of his evidence. Personally I prefer this approach to the out and out lies that we have been repeatedly asked to swallow ('We threw a protective ring around care homes', for instance).

The pertinent point about Hancock is that the cabinet secretary also told the PM that Hancock had lied in cabinet and had no confidence in his honesty. Johnson would not deny this at PMQs. If this is confirmed to be true it shows two things;

a) Hancock should have been removed a long time ago and broke the ministerial code again
b) Johnson has yet again displayed his terrible judgement

You cannot run an effective administration if you are relying on someone who will not tell you the truth about the important stuff.

Deflect, deflect, deflect, carry on but the truth is mistakes have been made here.

Mistakes have been made and people are now dead who could have survived. We are in unchartered territory and most can accept that mistakes are inevitable, but when you make them own them and display humility. Of course we should ask questions. Cummings answering more questions in a few hours than the government have done in over a year and answering them directly. Well done.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
Nice deflection once again.

Some would say that Cummings is reflecting honestly on what could have been done better. He has personally admitted to making many mistakes in the course of his evidence. Personally I prefer this approach to the out and out lies that we have been repeatedly asked to swallow ('We threw a protective ring around care homes', for instance).

The pertinent point about Hancock is that the cabinet secretary also told the PM that Hancock had lied in cabinet and had no confidence in his honesty. If this is confirmed to be true it shows two things;

a) Hancock should have been removed a long time ago and broke the ministerial code again
b) Johnson has yet again displayed his terrible judgement

You cannot run an effective administration if you are relying on someone who will not tell you the truth about the important stuff.

Deflect, deflect, deflect
Mistakes have been made, people are now dead who could have survived. We are in unchartered territory and most can accept that mistakes are inevitable, but when you make them own them and display humility. Of course we should ask questions. Cummings answering more questions in a few hours than the government have done in over a year and answering them directly.
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Now you're the one resorting to deflection.

I suggeset we wait and see what can be proven.
 
seasideone said:
What can you do?

At some point if a crisis is big enough the NHS will collapse.

Yes it needs to be organised better, but everything and anything will collapse if the pressure is high enough.

The real question is ‘where is that line acceptable for the population?’ …. And I haven’t got a clue what the answer is!!
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I've written half a dozen disaster plans and the current one runs to 13 pages and is reviewed every six months, that's just for a local service, so where was governmental plan?
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
I've written half a dozen disaster plans and the current one runs to 13 pages and is reviewed every six months, that's just for a local service, so where was governmental plan?
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No idea - but that does not change the fact you cannot deal with everything.

There is always a line you cannot go over regarding expenditure and resources.

ps I have also written disaster recovery plans in the private sector - it’s an eye opening (but interesting) task!
 
Cummings did actually say that he was fearful about going against all the conflicting advise, because it would all be on him.
Quite a burden to shoulder.
I looks like he waited until some other people realised, then helped make the decision collectively.
You can look at this 2 ways.
1: It was a human response, no-one would want the burden of everything going right/wrong on your decision alone.
2: He was paid to make big big decisions & served it.
It looks like it was a but of both.
It's bloody amazing stuff, no matter what you think !
 
seasideone said:
No idea - but that does not change the fact you cannot deal with everything.

There is always a line you cannot go over regarding expenditure and resources.

ps I have also written disaster recovery plans in the private sector - it’s an eye opening (but interesting) task!
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I agree you can't deal with everything but this isn't a comet or nuclear attack or aliens invading, it's a pandemic's effect on the health service, a pandemic that was predicted and has happened many times in the past, it's not even a particularly aggressive virus, maybe we just got lost in hubris.
 
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Lytham_fy8 said:
I agree you can't deal with everything but this isn't a comet or nuclear attack or aliens invading, it's a pandemic's effect on the health service, a pandemic that was predicted and has happened many times in the past, maybe we just got lost in hubris.
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And it`s not like they hadn`t done a similar thing in 2016 (Cygnus) for `flu.

You would have thought they would have war-gamed this more thoroughly.

But like most things in Johnson`s life it appears to have been treated casually. Certainly at the outset...
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
I agree you can't deal with everything but this isn't a comet or nuclear attack or aliens invading, it's a pandemic's effect on the health service, a pandemic that was predicted and has happened many times in the past, maybe we just got lost in hubris.
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The only thing I disagree with what you said is that Aliens invaded years ago.

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Cummings now getting stuck into Johnson, seemingly becoming a little frustrated with the questioning. Seems more tetchy this afternoon, perhaps because this is a personal relationship that has gone badly wrong.
Completely distances himself from eat out to help out.
Could be a few more explosions coming up.
 
spudgun said:
And it`s not like they hadn`t done a similar thing in 2016 (Cygnus) for `flu.

You would have thought they would have war-gamed this more thoroughly.

But like most things in Johnson`s life it appears to have been treated casually. Certainly at the outset...
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It's not just Johnson, it's every government, because it costs money to plan.
 
Cummings always struck me as one of those brilliant intelligent but mildly autistic type folk. If anyone was going to suggest let the old and sick die to save the rest I would have expected it to come from that sort of personality...the type of personality who would have less empathy for people than most...but would probably kill someone for harming a dog or something.

Does that make sense?
 
I think cummings likes the sound of his own voice....He thinks he knows best and is talking like he should be prime minister...and like's to give his opinions on what should have been done.
Mistakes have been in all countries around the world not just the Uk....But at the moment things are looking more positive and we are doing far better than many countries around the world.
Hes definitely trying to push Johnson and Hancock under the bus and not a bad word about Gove...Hmm definitely a Agenda there.

Bitter and twisted Weasel comes to mind.
 
we_need_a_bob_hatton said:
I think cummings likes the sound of his own voice....He thinks he knows best and is talking like he should be prime minister...and like's to give his opinions on what should have been done.
Mistakes have been in all countries around the world not just the Uk....But at the moment things are looking more positive and we are doing far better than many countries around the world.
Hes definitely trying to push Johnson and Hancock under the bus and not a bad word about Gove...Hmm definitely a Agenda there.

Bitter and twisted Weasel comes to mind.
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Bob

I don't think you are too far away with "Bitter and twisted Weasal".

To be fair to Cummings though he's certainly convinced a lot of people who previously had no time for him.

Only last year he was being slaughtered for being Pork Pier of the year and now the very same folk who were slaughtering him for lying are hanging on to his every word.
 
SEASIDE2020 said:
Bob

I don't think you are too far away with "Bitter and twisted Weasal".

To be fair to Cummings though he's certainly convinced a lot of people who previously had no time for him.

Only last year he was being slaughtered for being Pork Pier of the year and now the very same folk who were slaughtering him for lying are hanging on to his every word.
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Bitter and twisted weasels can also be right.
 
Ragnarok said:
Cummings always struck me as one of those brilliant intelligent but mildly autistic type folk. If anyone was going to suggest let the old and sick die to save the rest I would have expected it to come from that sort of personality...the type of personality who would have less empathy for people than most...but would probably kill someone for harming a dog or something.

Does that make sense?
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Yes it probably does Rag.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
Just had a little pop at Sturgeon then.

By the end of this there will probably be no politician who won’t be disgruntled (Sunak aside) 😂

Has some nice things to say about Civil Servants mind.
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I read somewhere that he's Gove's man a while ago. Someone who has kept well out of the way during the pandemic.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
Bitter and twisted weasels can also be right.
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No doubt Mex but I'm struggling to understand why he's decided to tell all today ?

I can't say I needed Cummings to tell me much of what he's decided to tell us and funny that this one time serial liar is suddenly preaching the gospel.
 
SEASIDE2020 said:
lol - very good - as opposed to telling the world at the time ?
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But then he’d probably be criticised for being disloyal to his employer and an embittered whistleblower.

Given what we know most of what he had to say has the ring of truth. That’s not to say he doesn’t have an agenda. But the fact he has an agenda doesn’t automatically mean he’s lying.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
But then he’d probably be criticised for being disloyal to his employer and an embittered whistleblower.

Given what we know most of what he had to say has the ring of truth. That’s not to say he doesn’t have an agenda. But the fact he has an agenda doesn’t automatically mean he’s lying.
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He obviously has an agenda, but sometimes people with an agenda can be the most useful in getting to the truth.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
But then he’d probably be criticised for being disloyal to his employer and an embittered whistleblower.

Given what we know most of what he had to say has the ring of truth. That’s not to say he doesn’t have an agenda. But the fact he has an agenda doesn’t automatically mean he’s lying.
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I'm not suggesting he's lying Mex.

I just questioned his timing and laughed at how somebody who was previously considered to have been lying every time he opened his North and South was suddenly preaching the gospel.
 
Just emerged from a 7 hour marathon watching Cummings.

I haven't liked him for his work on Brexit, and his trip to Barnard Castle - although he gave a reason for that today.

I've got to say he was very impressive over the whole of his testimony, and I believe him over Johnson and Hancock.

It'll be interesting how those 2 inadequates respond when his emails, texts, tweets and whats app messages are all released.

They'll fluster and bluster and say we should now move on. Maybe they should be brought in front of the War Crimes Commission as it's clear they've been personally responsible for 000's of deaths.
 
TangerineBayern said:
Doms not holding back on some very tasty information, apologies for the mistakes made by the Government who fell disastrously short of what the public expect, and says that COBR meetings leak like a sieve!
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He’s not sorry, he’s out for revenge simple as.
He lied his way through the Barnard Castle debacle and would be b*llshitting with the best of them still now if he hadn’t been shown the door.
What an absolute snake of a man.
 
Lost Seasider said:
Gove is close to Cummings, Gove wants to succeed Johnson and Cummings thinks this would earn him a return to the big league, somehow Hancock is a block to Gove's ambitions so Cummings is trying to damage him.
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I really don't think, Hancock needs any help in that direction he's done enough damage himself. Still he will continue with his pretence as though he cares about the National Health system.
 
The border issue is the biggest failing for me and they still haven't got a proper grip on that. The discharges to care homes is less clear and was partially dependent on the local health and care sectors. Locally, discharges were largely tested and we had fewer deaths.
The problem with Cummings spillling his guts is that he is tainted and incompetent himself. Who in their right mind would employ him in the future? I suppose he has the answer to local optometry services in the future through piloting the 'Barnard Castle Test'
 
Cummings was just an advisor, advising the PM it was Johnson's decision in the end what we should do. The question that needs to be asked is did Cummings know that Johnson was a complete lunatic before he got the job or after. I mean what did people really expect, really?
 
TwelveAngryMen said:
Surprised the govt haven’t secured an injunction to prevent him sharing all the strategic planning at the start of the pandemic
The stuff he’s putting out on twitter ( flowcharts from meetings at the start ) is clearly highly confidential and not intended for the public domain
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