EU capitulates over NI Protocol

K

Kip

Well-known member
"Nothing is negotiable. Everything is applicable".

"Brussels has signalled it could back down and avert a trade war with the UK as on Friday it welcomed the Government's request for a three-month extension for British sausages to be sold in Northern Ireland. Maros Sefcovic, the European Commission vice president, told an audience in Bruges that he was "convinced there is still a window for productive political dialogue" before the ban on chilled meats comes into effect in July.
Simon Coveney, Ireland's foreign minister, said he would be "urging" the EU to "respond with generosity" to the UK's request for a three-month extension."

The EU diplomatic corp clearly reads this messageboard.

It's common sense really. The UK was going to do this unilaterally and the EU had backed themselves into a corner. Hopefully this will be the start of a more harmonious, practical relationship between the two sides.
 
Kip said:
"Nothing is negotiable. Everything is applicable".

"Brussels has signalled it could back down and avert a trade war with the UK as on Friday it welcomed the Government's request for a three-month extension for British sausages to be sold in Northern Ireland. Maros Sefcovic, the European Commission vice president, told an audience in Bruges that he was "convinced there is still a window for productive political dialogue" before the ban on chilled meats comes into effect in July.
Simon Coveney, Ireland's foreign minister, said he would be "urging" the EU to "respond with generosity" to the UK's request for a three-month extension."

The EU diplomatic corp clearly reads this messageboard.

It's common sense really. The UK was going to do this unilaterally and the EU had backed themselves into a corner. Hopefully this will be the start of a more harmonious, practical relationship between the two sides.
Click to expand...
An alternative way of presenting these facts would be:

“The U.K. has signalled it could back down and avert a trade war with the EU when it withdrew threats to unilaterally extend the period of grace on the ban on chilled meats, and requested the EU for a three month extension.”

If I wanted to score silly points I could also use inflammatory words like “capitulate” and “went grovelling to the EU begging for an extension” but that probably wouldn’t help with the more harmonious relationship that I agree with you is needed.

I’m pleased Johnson and Frost have heeded the warnings given by Biden last week. Like I said at the time the government has two options:

1. Breach the protocol and enter a trade war with the EU and wave goodbye to a trade deal with the US or
2. Comply with its obligations but dress it up as some great victory supported by its friends in the RW media.

I thought 2 was the most likely and still do.
 
Ireland appears to be facing a moment of truth. Following the events recently where the EU temporarily triggered Article 16 of the Northern Ireland Protocol as part of its desperate effort to manage its self-made vaccines crisis, which, after taking Atra Zenica to court over supply and has now lost but claims to have won, continues to treat the Irish with a considerable amount of contempt.

Should they now be asking themselves whether, after years of struggle to release themselves from the tyranny of a, then, world power, only to find themselves being treated with contempt by Brussels whether this is what they expected when they joined, along with the UK, the EU gravy train.

It would appear that the EU is now treating Ireland with the same contempt that no doubt swung the Brexit vote against them when team GB asked for a little more and was sent packing. Echoes of Oliver Twist?

Fishing seems to regularly hit the headlines in any dispute between the EU & UK, and it is fact that two of the richest fishing grounds are the UK waters and the Irish waters. Ireland, much like the UK did, only receives a pittance of the amount of ‘managed, fishing stocks in their own waters, now down to around 15% since Brexit, to make up the targets for the likes of Spain, France, and the Netherlands. A number of Spanish Trawlers have been arrested for overfishing and entering the 12-mile zone reserved for the Irish, their fishermen are not happy.

Going back to Article 16, it gets worse. The EU didn’t even consult the Irish government before it triggered Article 16. Think about the magnitude of this. The EU unilaterally decided what should happen on the island of Ireland. It decided to enforce a health border. Like the imperialists of old, who we have already mentioned, it drew a line through post-Brexit Ireland, decreeing how the two parts of the country may relate to one another on the issue of Covid and vaccines.

This sums up the EU’s neo-colonial arrogance towards Ireland. It seems to view Ireland as a territory that it owns. As a country in which it can do whatever it chooses. Even the EU’s later reversal doesn’t take away from the seriousness of this — Brussels genuinely contemplated enforcing a new border arrangement on the island of Ireland without consulting Ireland’s elected representatives.

Much like in the UK, anyone who points out that the EU does not respect a country’s democracy, in this case, the Irish one, will be shouted down as ‘divisive’ or ‘Europhobic’. If anyone has the temerity to remind people that the EU forced the Irish to vote again when they rejected the Nice and Lisbon treaties in 2001 and 2008 respectively, they will be told to ‘Stop making trouble.’ And yet once again it can be seen how little respect the EU has for Irish sovereign rights.

It could be that Irish farmers will be affected by the latest trade deals signed by both GB and the EU. More Brazilian and South American meat will be entering the EU food chain, whereas in the UK it will be more Australian meat, and if a USA trade deal is signed between the UK & USA Ireland will be affected once again, due to two of their largest markets aforementioned being joined at the hip, so to speak.

It appears that the Irish have in some ways helped broker a deal in the ‘Sausage War’ but, will it last? Only time will tell.

I have read that euro skepticism is growing on the island of Ireland and it will be interesting to see what happens in the future if Ireland continues to be ignored by the Commission.

Various sources used to construct this.
 
Curryman said:
Ireland appears to be facing a moment of truth. Following the events recently where the EU temporarily triggered Article 16 of the Northern Ireland Protocol as part of its desperate effort to manage its self-made vaccines crisis, which, after taking Atra Zenica to court over supply and has now lost but claims to have won, continues to treat the Irish with a considerable amount of contempt.

Should they now be asking themselves whether, after years of struggle to release themselves from the tyranny of a, then, world power, only to find themselves being treated with contempt by Brussels whether this is what they expected when they joined, along with the UK, the EU gravy train.

It would appear that the EU is now treating Ireland with the same contempt that no doubt swung the Brexit vote against them when team GB asked for a little more and was sent packing. Echoes of Oliver Twist?

Fishing seems to regularly hit the headlines in any dispute between the EU & UK, and it is fact that two of the richest fishing grounds are the UK waters and the Irish waters. Ireland, much like the UK did, only receives a pittance of the amount of ‘managed, fishing stocks in their own waters, now down to around 15% since Brexit, to make up the targets for the likes of Spain, France, and the Netherlands. A number of Spanish Trawlers have been arrested for overfishing and entering the 12-mile zone reserved for the Irish, their fishermen are not happy.

Going back to Article 16, it gets worse. The EU didn’t even consult the Irish government before it triggered Article 16. Think about the magnitude of this. The EU unilaterally decided what should happen on the island of Ireland. It decided to enforce a health border. Like the imperialists of old, who we have already mentioned, it drew a line through post-Brexit Ireland, decreeing how the two parts of the country may relate to one another on the issue of Covid and vaccines.

This sums up the EU’s neo-colonial arrogance towards Ireland. It seems to view Ireland as a territory that it owns. As a country in which it can do whatever it chooses. Even the EU’s later reversal doesn’t take away from the seriousness of this — Brussels genuinely contemplated enforcing a new border arrangement on the island of Ireland without consulting Ireland’s elected representatives.

Much like in the UK, anyone who points out that the EU does not respect a country’s democracy, in this case, the Irish one, will be shouted down as ‘divisive’ or ‘Europhobic’. If anyone has the temerity to remind people that the EU forced the Irish to vote again when they rejected the Nice and Lisbon treaties in 2001 and 2008 respectively, they will be told to ‘Stop making trouble.’ And yet once again it can be seen how little respect the EU has for Irish sovereign rights.

It could be that Irish farmers will be affected by the latest trade deals signed by both GB and the EU. More Brazilian and South American meat will be entering the EU food chain, whereas in the UK it will be more Australian meat, and if a USA trade deal is signed between the UK & USA Ireland will be affected once again, due to two of their largest markets aforementioned being joined at the hip, so to speak.

It appears that the Irish have in some ways helped broker a deal in the ‘Sausage War’ but, will it last? Only time will tell.

I have read that euro skepticism is growing on the island of Ireland and it will be interesting to see what happens in the future if Ireland continues to be ignored by the Commission.

Various sources used to construct this.
Click to expand...
Yep support for the EU is collapsing - down to just 84 % of the population of Eire supporting membership.

www.rte.ie

Slight drop in pro-EU sentiment in Ireland

A new opinion poll has found that 84% of Irish people are in favour of remaining in the European Union, down from a high of 93% at the height of the Brexit negotiations.
www.rte.ie www.rte.ie
 
bollieboy said:
Yep support for the EU is collapsing - down to just 84 % of the population of Eire supporting membership.

www.rte.ie

Slight drop in pro-EU sentiment in Ireland

A new opinion poll has found that 84% of Irish people are in favour of remaining in the European Union, down from a high of 93% at the height of the Brexit negotiations.
www.rte.ie www.rte.ie
Click to expand...
😂 You’ve just spoilt Curryman’s breakfast. He spent a long time writing all that as well.
 
Curryman said:
Ireland appears to be facing a moment of truth. Following the events recently where the EU temporarily triggered Article 16 of the Northern Ireland Protocol as part of its desperate effort to manage its self-made vaccines crisis, which, after taking Atra Zenica to court over supply and has now lost but claims to have won, continues to treat the Irish with a considerable amount of contempt.

Should they now be asking themselves whether, after years of struggle to release themselves from the tyranny of a, then, world power, only to find themselves being treated with contempt by Brussels whether this is what they expected when they joined, along with the UK, the EU gravy train.

It would appear that the EU is now treating Ireland with the same contempt that no doubt swung the Brexit vote against them when team GB asked for a little more and was sent packing. Echoes of Oliver Twist?

Fishing seems to regularly hit the headlines in any dispute between the EU & UK, and it is fact that two of the richest fishing grounds are the UK waters and the Irish waters. Ireland, much like the UK did, only receives a pittance of the amount of ‘managed, fishing stocks in their own waters, now down to around 15% since Brexit, to make up the targets for the likes of Spain, France, and the Netherlands. A number of Spanish Trawlers have been arrested for overfishing and entering the 12-mile zone reserved for the Irish, their fishermen are not happy.

Going back to Article 16, it gets worse. The EU didn’t even consult the Irish government before it triggered Article 16. Think about the magnitude of this. The EU unilaterally decided what should happen on the island of Ireland. It decided to enforce a health border. Like the imperialists of old, who we have already mentioned, it drew a line through post-Brexit Ireland, decreeing how the two parts of the country may relate to one another on the issue of Covid and vaccines.

This sums up the EU’s neo-colonial arrogance towards Ireland. It seems to view Ireland as a territory that it owns. As a country in which it can do whatever it chooses. Even the EU’s later reversal doesn’t take away from the seriousness of this — Brussels genuinely contemplated enforcing a new border arrangement on the island of Ireland without consulting Ireland’s elected representatives.

Much like in the UK, anyone who points out that the EU does not respect a country’s democracy, in this case, the Irish one, will be shouted down as ‘divisive’ or ‘Europhobic’. If anyone has the temerity to remind people that the EU forced the Irish to vote again when they rejected the Nice and Lisbon treaties in 2001 and 2008 respectively, they will be told to ‘Stop making trouble.’ And yet once again it can be seen how little respect the EU has for Irish sovereign rights.

It could be that Irish farmers will be affected by the latest trade deals signed by both GB and the EU. More Brazilian and South American meat will be entering the EU food chain, whereas in the UK it will be more Australian meat, and if a USA trade deal is signed between the UK & USA Ireland will be affected once again, due to two of their largest markets aforementioned being joined at the hip, so to speak.

It appears that the Irish have in some ways helped broker a deal in the ‘Sausage War’ but, will it last? Only time will tell.

I have read that euro skepticism is growing on the island of Ireland and it will be interesting to see what happens in the future if Ireland continues to be ignored by the Commission.

Various sources used to construct this.
Click to expand...


You are absolutely right Curryman but there are none so blind as those who will not see. The most deluded people are those who choose to ignore what they already know.

In reality, the Irish are in a very similar position to the British five years ago. An increasing majority is objecting to the number of immigrants moving to the island and there is widespread anger at the EU's exploitation of its fishing industry. There is growing unrest in the country about the Commission's blundering lack of direction combined with its desire to control member states' tax regimes and its movement towards a European federal state.

After the Celtic tiger fell down a big hole, the country managed to revive its economy with some very generous tax breaks to tempt foreign companies to the island, but now, the EU and USA are pushing for an end to low corporation tax rates. For many years the Republic has been the whipping boy of the EU, even to the extent of being punished alongside the UK when the uber-strict border controls were applied earlier this year and, of course, being ignored completely when the European Commission began playing games with the Belfast Agreement.

The difficulty for Ireland is that it's not economically strong enough for a clean break from the EU and possibly never will be. It will, therefore, carry on being abused by the EC and occasionally rewarded just enough to keep it in line. However, the unrest will continue to grow as it did in this country and as it is increasingly in other member states. The end result is inevitable so I won't bother spelling it out.
 
tangerinenotorange said:
You are absolutely right Curryman but there are none so blind as those who will not see. The most deluded people are those who choose to ignore what they already know.

In reality, the Irish are in a very similar position to the British five years ago. An increasing majority is objecting to the number of immigrants moving to the island and there is widespread anger at the EU's exploitation of its fishing industry. There is growing unrest in the country about the Commission's blundering lack of direction combined with its desire to control member states' tax regimes and its movement towards a European federal state.

After the Celtic tiger fell down a big hole, the country managed to revive its economy with some very generous tax breaks to tempt foreign companies to the island, but now, the EU and USA are pushing for an end to low corporation tax rates. For many years the Republic has been the whipping boy of the EU, even to the extent of being punished alongside the UK when the uber-strict border controls were applied earlier this year and, of course, being ignored completely when the European Commission began playing games with the Belfast Agreement.

The difficulty for Ireland is that it's not economically strong enough for a clean break from the EU and possibly never will be. It will, therefore, carry on being abused by the EC and occasionally rewarded just enough to keep it in line. However, the unrest will continue to grow as it did in this country and as it is increasingly in other member states. The end result is inevitable so I won't bother spelling it out.
Click to expand...
In case you missed it….

84% of Irish people are in favour of remaining in the EU.

Not quite the picture you’re attempting to portray.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
In case you missed it….

84% of Irish people are in favour of remaining in the EU.

Not quite the picture you’re attempting to portray.
Click to expand...

It's a survey of 1000 people so is too small to be accurate. However, I think you'll find that it says:

84% of Irish people are in favour of remaining in the European Union, down from 93%, a fall of 9%; and

Irish people are decidedly cool about taking in more refugees, with 53% against and 35% in favour, a majority of 18%.

So, there's a trend away from EU support as I said and for the reasons stated. Similar, in fact, to most other EU member states.
 
Last edited:
Curryman said:
Ireland appears to be facing a moment of truth. Following the events recently where the EU temporarily triggered Article 16 of the Northern Ireland Protocol as part of its desperate effort to manage its self-made vaccines crisis, which, after taking Atra Zenica to court over supply and has now lost but claims to have won, continues to treat the Irish with a considerable amount of contempt.

Should they now be asking themselves whether, after years of struggle to release themselves from the tyranny of a, then, world power, only to find themselves being treated with contempt by Brussels whether this is what they expected when they joined, along with the UK, the EU gravy train.

It would appear that the EU is now treating Ireland with the same contempt that no doubt swung the Brexit vote against them when team GB asked for a little more and was sent packing. Echoes of Oliver Twist?

Fishing seems to regularly hit the headlines in any dispute between the EU & UK, and it is fact that two of the richest fishing grounds are the UK waters and the Irish waters. Ireland, much like the UK did, only receives a pittance of the amount of ‘managed, fishing stocks in their own waters, now down to around 15% since Brexit, to make up the targets for the likes of Spain, France, and the Netherlands. A number of Spanish Trawlers have been arrested for overfishing and entering the 12-mile zone reserved for the Irish, their fishermen are not happy.

Going back to Article 16, it gets worse. The EU didn’t even consult the Irish government before it triggered Article 16. Think about the magnitude of this. The EU unilaterally decided what should happen on the island of Ireland. It decided to enforce a health border. Like the imperialists of old, who we have already mentioned, it drew a line through post-Brexit Ireland, decreeing how the two parts of the country may relate to one another on the issue of Covid and vaccines.

This sums up the EU’s neo-colonial arrogance towards Ireland. It seems to view Ireland as a territory that it owns. As a country in which it can do whatever it chooses. Even the EU’s later reversal doesn’t take away from the seriousness of this — Brussels genuinely contemplated enforcing a new border arrangement on the island of Ireland without consulting Ireland’s elected representatives.

Much like in the UK, anyone who points out that the EU does not respect a country’s democracy, in this case, the Irish one, will be shouted down as ‘divisive’ or ‘Europhobic’. If anyone has the temerity to remind people that the EU forced the Irish to vote again when they rejected the Nice and Lisbon treaties in 2001 and 2008 respectively, they will be told to ‘Stop making trouble.’ And yet once again it can be seen how little respect the EU has for Irish sovereign rights.

It could be that Irish farmers will be affected by the latest trade deals signed by both GB and the EU. More Brazilian and South American meat will be entering the EU food chain, whereas in the UK it will be more Australian meat, and if a USA trade deal is signed between the UK & USA Ireland will be affected once again, due to two of their largest markets aforementioned being joined at the hip, so to speak.

It appears that the Irish have in some ways helped broker a deal in the ‘Sausage War’ but, will it last? Only time will tell.

I have read that euro skepticism is growing on the island of Ireland and it will be interesting to see what happens in the future if Ireland continues to be ignored by the Commission.

Various sources used to construct this.
Click to expand...
The EU withdrew article 16 and apologised. As for the rest of this piece its back to whinging about the EU bullying, as one of the big 3 we were never bullied. I suppose these days you have to take this line, the other stance you'd have taken about them needing us more than we needed them has been shown to be fantasy land stuff. In the real world exports have been hammered, we've signed a shocker of a deal with Australia and prices are going through the roof (building material in particular) and there are big delays and shortages. If you didn't like the political union that's fine but coming out of the single market is utterly bonkers.
 
SP, I don't remember saying this, 'the other stance you'd have taken about them needing us more than we needed them has been shown to be fantasy land stuff.' Please enlighten me where I did say it. Otherwise don't put words into my mouth.
 
Curryman said:
Ireland appears to be facing a moment of truth. Following the events recently where the EU temporarily triggered Article 16 of the Northern Ireland Protocol as part of its desperate effort to manage its self-made vaccines crisis, which, after taking Atra Zenica to court over supply and has now lost but claims to have won, continues to treat the Irish with a considerable amount of contempt.

Should they now be asking themselves whether, after years of struggle to release themselves from the tyranny of a, then, world power, only to find themselves being treated with contempt by Brussels whether this is what they expected when they joined, along with the UK, the EU gravy train.

It would appear that the EU is now treating Ireland with the same contempt that no doubt swung the Brexit vote against them when team GB asked for a little more and was sent packing. Echoes of Oliver Twist?

Fishing seems to regularly hit the headlines in any dispute between the EU & UK, and it is fact that two of the richest fishing grounds are the UK waters and the Irish waters. Ireland, much like the UK did, only receives a pittance of the amount of ‘managed, fishing stocks in their own waters, now down to around 15% since Brexit, to make up the targets for the likes of Spain, France, and the Netherlands. A number of Spanish Trawlers have been arrested for overfishing and entering the 12-mile zone reserved for the Irish, their fishermen are not happy.

Going back to Article 16, it gets worse. The EU didn’t even consult the Irish government before it triggered Article 16. Think about the magnitude of this. The EU unilaterally decided what should happen on the island of Ireland. It decided to enforce a health border. Like the imperialists of old, who we have already mentioned, it drew a line through post-Brexit Ireland, decreeing how the two parts of the country may relate to one another on the issue of Covid and vaccines.

This sums up the EU’s neo-colonial arrogance towards Ireland. It seems to view Ireland as a territory that it owns. As a country in which it can do whatever it chooses. Even the EU’s later reversal doesn’t take away from the seriousness of this — Brussels genuinely contemplated enforcing a new border arrangement on the island of Ireland without consulting Ireland’s elected representatives.

Much like in the UK, anyone who points out that the EU does not respect a country’s democracy, in this case, the Irish one, will be shouted down as ‘divisive’ or ‘Europhobic’. If anyone has the temerity to remind people that the EU forced the Irish to vote again when they rejected the Nice and Lisbon treaties in 2001 and 2008 respectively, they will be told to ‘Stop making trouble.’ And yet once again it can be seen how little respect the EU has for Irish sovereign rights.

It could be that Irish farmers will be affected by the latest trade deals signed by both GB and the EU. More Brazilian and South American meat will be entering the EU food chain, whereas in the UK it will be more Australian meat, and if a USA trade deal is signed between the UK & USA Ireland will be affected once again, due to two of their largest markets aforementioned being joined at the hip, so to speak.

It appears that the Irish have in some ways helped broker a deal in the ‘Sausage War’ but, will it last? Only time will tell.

I have read that euro skepticism is growing on the island of Ireland and it will be interesting to see what happens in the future if Ireland continues to be ignored by the Commission.

Various sources used to construct this.
Click to expand...
Are you Irish ? Would think it's up to those who live there to best decide how it's shaping up .
 
tangerinenotorange said:
The difficulty for Ireland is that it's not economically strong enough for a clean break from the EU and possibly never will be. It will, therefore, carry on being abused by the EC and occasionally rewarded just enough to keep it in line. However, the unrest will continue to grow as it did in this country and as it is increasingly in other member states. The end result is inevitable so I won't bother spelling it out.
Click to expand...

The one thing they have got going in their favour is the UK, and almost certainly immediate access to our single market plus any other trade deals we've negotiated.

It's only a matter of time before the EU hammers through corporate tax harmonisation, with obvious implications for Ireland, what happens after that? Who knows?
 
A United Ireland, which everyone knows will eventually happen, despite the misgivings of a good deal of people on either side of the border, will be the final kick in the teeth for our little Englanders and, when it happens, they’ll pretend that it’s what they wanted all along 🇮🇪🇮🇪🇮🇪
 
Recidivist3 said:
A United Ireland, which everyone knows will eventually happen, despite the misgivings of a good deal of people on either side of the border, will be the final kick in the teeth for our little Englanders and, when it happens, they’ll pretend that it’s what they wanted all along 🇮🇪🇮🇪🇮🇪
Click to expand...

A united Ireland (which I believe should happen) will be the final kick in the teeth for the Ulster Unionists and will probably result in civil war on the island. Brits generally think Northern Ireland is more trouble than it's worth and wouldn't be all that bothered.
 
Curryman said:
SP, I don't remember saying this, 'the other stance you'd have taken about them needing us more than we needed them has been shown to be fantasy land stuff.' Please enlighten me where I did say it. Otherwise don't put words into my mouth.
Click to expand...
Im not saying you as an individual said it, but It was the standard mantra of brexiteers. Now its gone a full 180 degrees to the EU bullied us.
 
tangerinenotorange said:
You are absolutely right Curryman but there are none so blind as those who will not see. The most deluded people are those who choose to ignore what they already know.

In reality, the Irish are in a very similar position to the British five years ago. An increasing majority is objecting to the number of immigrants moving to the island and there is widespread anger at the EU's exploitation of its fishing industry. There is growing unrest in the country about the Commission's blundering lack of direction combined with its desire to control member states' tax regimes and its movement towards a European federal state.

After the Celtic tiger fell down a big hole, the country managed to revive its economy with some very generous tax breaks to tempt foreign companies to the island, but now, the EU and USA are pushing for an end to low corporation tax rates. For many years the Republic has been the whipping boy of the EU, even to the extent of being punished alongside the UK when the uber-strict border controls were applied earlier this year and, of course, being ignored completely when the European Commission began playing games with the Belfast Agreement.

The difficulty for Ireland is that it's not economically strong enough for a clean break from the EU and possibly never will be. It will, therefore, carry on being abused by the EC and occasionally rewarded just enough to keep it in line. However, the unrest will continue to grow as it did in this country and as it is increasingly in other member states. The end result is inevitable so I won't bother spelling it out.
Click to expand...
Well, I live in Ireland and am a keen student of politics and I do not recognise your or Curryman's accounts of the current state of play between the EU and Ireland. I know, from numerous posts of his, that Curryman looks for any excuse to hammer the EU, but over here we are mostly very happy with our membership of the EU and do not recognise any "bullying" behaviour towards us. Indeed, the strict application of the NI protocol (negotiated and signed off by BJ in every detail, by the way) demanded by the EU is very much with the interests of the Irish Republic in mind.
 
kerrytangerine said:
Well, I live in Ireland and am a keen student of politics and I do not recognise your or Curryman's accounts of the current state of play between the EU and Ireland. I know, from numerous posts of his, that Curryman looks for any excuse to hammer the EU, but over here we are mostly very happy with our membership of the EU and do not recognise any "bullying" behaviour towards us. Indeed, the strict application of the NI protocol (negotiated and signed off by BJ in every detail, by the way) demanded by the EU is very much with the interests of the Irish Republic in mind.
Click to expand...

👏👏
 
Mexboroseasider said:
An alternative way of presenting these facts would be:

“The U.K. has signalled it could back down and avert a trade war with the EU when it withdrew threats to unilaterally extend the period of grace on the ban on chilled meats, and requested the EU for a three month extension.”

If I wanted to score silly points I could also use inflammatory words like “capitulate” and “went grovelling to the EU begging for an extension” but that probably wouldn’t help with the more harmonious relationship that I agree with you is needed.

I’m pleased Johnson and Frost have heeded the warnings given by Biden last week. Like I said at the time the government has two options:

1. Breach the protocol and enter a trade war with the EU and wave goodbye to a trade deal with the US or
2. Comply with its obligations but dress it up as some great victory supported by its friends in the RW media.

I thought 2 was the most likely and still do.
Click to expand...

You might say that but it wouldn't fit with reality.

The UK has not withdrawn it's threat to act unilaterally and the UK's obligations state that checks must be introduced in July but it looks like they're not going to be so the movement is clearly on the EU side.

All I'm doing is reporting real-world events.
 
kerrytangerine said:
Well, I live in Ireland and am a keen student of politics and I do not recognise your or Curryman's accounts of the current state of play between the EU and Ireland. I know, from numerous posts of his, that Curryman looks for any excuse to hammer the EU, but over here we are mostly very happy with our membership of the EU and do not recognise any "bullying" behaviour towards us. Indeed, the strict application of the NI protocol (negotiated and signed off by BJ in every detail, by the way) demanded by the EU is very much with the interests of the Irish Republic in mind.
Click to expand...

I'm Irish too and with respect I think maybe you need to get out of the country to get a clear view of how the Republic is treated by the EU because to many of us it seems like nothing more than a pawn to be exploited for the greater good of punishing the UK. This has been considered on here on a number of occasions and the abuses Ireland has been subjected to have been discussed ad nauseum. I don't take issue with any of the points made by Curryman, TNO and Lost Seasider.
 
Kip said:
All I'm doing is reporting real-world events.
Click to expand...
No you’re not. You’re spinning real world events. And they could easily be spun in the opposite direction.

If you’d wanted to comment impartially on real world events you’d have simply said the U.K. had requested a three month extension and hopefully we and the EU were edging slowly towards a compromise and not towards a trade war. Instead you preferred to claim the EU had “capitulated” (which is odd when it’s the U.K. making the request) and implied that proved the U.K. had been right all along. That isn’t just reporting world events.
 
kerrytangerine said:
Well, I live in Ireland and am a keen student of politics and I do not recognise your or Curryman's accounts of the current state of play between the EU and Ireland. I know, from numerous posts of his, that Curryman looks for any excuse to hammer the EU, but over here we are mostly very happy with our membership of the EU and do not recognise any "bullying" behaviour towards us. Indeed, the strict application of the NI protocol (negotiated and signed off by BJ in every detail, by the way) demanded by the EU is very much with the interests of the Irish Republic in mind.
Click to expand...
Good post and correct in the fact the Johnson agreed the deal, won an election on it and signed the deal. Somehow that passes over the head of Curryman who is quick to call out Von der Lyen but never one iota of criticism of the PM.
 
tommytwojags said:
I'm Irish too and with respect I think maybe you need to get out of the country to get a clear view of how the Republic is treated by the EU because to many of us it seems like nothing more than a pawn to be exploited for the greater good of punishing the UK. This has been considered on here on a number of occasions and the abuses Ireland has been subjected to have been discussed ad nauseum. I don't take issue with any of the points made by Curryman, TNO and Lost Seasider.
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I am not Irish and have only lived here for just short of three years after 20-odd years in France. However, I read a wide selection of Irish, UK and international press, watch Irish and UK news and political programmes and talk to a good few folk locally. I do not come across your analysis, especially your view that the EU is using Ireland to "punish" the UK, anywhere except in the Eurosceptic British press. In what way is the UK being punished? All the EU is demanding is that the UK implements the international treaty obligations that Boris Johnson agreed with the EU. Here in Kerry, at least, the consensus would appear to be that Johnson has created this mess and it is up to him to sort it out. And all this nonsense about sausages - as an Irishman you will know better than most that Irish sausages, black puddings, bacon etc are at least the equal of UK produced equivalents and can be sold in NI with no border checks etc.
 
kerrytangerine said:
Well, I live in Ireland and am a keen student of politics and I do not recognise your or Curryman's accounts of the current state of play between the EU and Ireland. I know, from numerous posts of his, that Curryman looks for any excuse to hammer the EU, but over here we are mostly very happy with our membership of the EU and do not recognise any "bullying" behaviour towards us. Indeed, the strict application of the NI protocol (negotiated and signed off by BJ in every detail, by the way) demanded by the EU is very much with the interests of the Irish Republic in mind.
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A sensible post. Some posters believe their own hyperbole.
 
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kerrytangerine said:
I am not Irish and have only lived here for just short of three years after 20-odd years in France. However, I read a wide selection of Irish, UK and international press, watch Irish and UK news and political programmes and talk to a good few folk locally. I do not come across your analysis, especially your view that the EU is using Ireland to "punish" the UK, anywhere except in the Eurosceptic British press. In what way is the UK being punished? All the EU is demanding is that the UK implements the international treaty obligations that Boris Johnson agreed with the EU. Here in Kerry, at least, the consensus would appear to be that Johnson has created this mess and it is up to him to sort it out. And all this nonsense about sausages - as an Irishman you will know better than most that Irish sausages, black puddings, bacon etc are at least the equal of UK produced equivalents and can be sold in NI with no border checks etc.
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You clearly don't have any grasp of the ongoing dispute between the UK and the EU. The 'sausages' issue concerns the EU block on the movement of products from GB to Northern Ireland. It has nothing to do with the products moving from the Republic into NI.

I really can't believe you're asking in what way is the UK being punished by the EU? I know that Kerry is on the outermost edge of Europe but even so. Where have you been for the past six months?
 
I am from an Irish family, follow politics and events in Ireland closely via media and talking to family. Irish people are very well aware of what EU membership has given them in terms of infrastructure etc. There is a section of disenfranchised people who are not happy, and a bigger section of lower and middle class youngsters very unhappy that there is no prospect of them owning their own home and that renting is so expensive.

But this isn’t, as some posters on here pine for, leading to an upsurge of anti EU feeling. It’s leading to an upsurge of feeling against Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael, the two parties who have run the country for the last 100 years and are responsible for what is seen as a housing crisis.

And the likely result at the next election? Sinn Fein (yes them) as the biggest party in a coalition and a Sinn Fein leader. Because they are seen as a party not in cahoots with developers and what is a rigged housing market. Whilst people on this side of the water will rightly go, WTF? that is very likely to happen.

As of this Friday, SF lead in the opinion polls by 3 points. To be clear this won’t be a vote for the IRA ( though I understand that’s how it will be seen here) it will be a vote against the other two parties and their consistent failure to provide housing.

Just because this country and this message board is convulsed by the EU doesn’t mean everywhere else is. Other places have other issues.
 
kerrytangerine said:
Well, I live in Ireland and am a keen student of politics and I do not recognise your or Curryman's accounts of the current state of play between the EU and Ireland. I know, from numerous posts of his, that Curryman looks for any excuse to hammer the EU, but over here we are mostly very happy with our membership of the EU and do not recognise any "bullying" behaviour towards us. Indeed, the strict application of the NI protocol (negotiated and signed off by BJ in every detail, by the way) demanded by the EU is very much with the interests of the Irish Republic in mind.
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We’ll said. Curryman, Lost Seasider et al are so anti EU they like interpreting things in a certain way!!
 
Mexboroseasider said:
No you’re not. You’re spinning real world events. And they could easily be spun in the opposite direction.

If you’d wanted to comment impartially on real world events you’d have simply said the U.K. had requested a three month extension and hopefully we and the EU were edging slowly towards a compromise and not towards a trade war. Instead you preferred to claim the EU had “capitulated” (which is odd when it’s the U.K. making the request) and implied that proved the U.K. had been right all along. That isn’t just reporting world events.
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'Capitulation' - the action of ceasing to resist an opponent or demand.

It is what it is. No spinning required really.
 
Tangojoe said:
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You clearly don't have any grasp of the ongoing dispute between the UK and the EU. The 'sausages' issue concerns the EU block on the movement of products from GB to Northern Ireland. It has nothing to do with the products moving from the Republic into NI.

I really can't believe you're asking in what way is the UK being punished by the EU? I know that Kerry is on the outermost edge of Europe but even so. Where have you been for the past six months?
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Where has he been? Outside of your jingoistic, British Tory tinted propaganda bubble, clearly.
The British government demanded that deal with the EU, won an election on the strength of it, now the UK Government need to create constant conflict with the EU because sticking it up the EU wins them elections. If they quietly got on with business with the EU you'd soon realise they've been lying since Johnson got the job.
 
hampshire_exile said:
But this isn’t, as some posters on here pine for, leading to an upsurge of anti EU feeling. It’s leading to an upsurge of feeling against Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael, the two parties who have run the country for the last 100 years and are responsible for what is seen as a housing crisis.
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According to the poll mentioned above, there is an increase of 9% in anti-EU feeling in Ireland. Not much, but following the general trend across Europe. This has absolutely nothing to do with Irish party politics

kerrytangerine said:
In what way is the UK being punished? All the EU is demanding is that the UK implements the international treaty obligations that Boris Johnson agreed with the EU.
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I'll give you a few starters


Blocking of UK owned covid vaccine exports from mainland EU to UK

Refusal to accept unprocessed UK shellfish even though they have been accepted for decades

Diversion and delay of perishable UK goods in transit to EU requiring products to be destroyed

Refusal to grant financial equivalence to UK banks and finance houses although reciprocal equivalence given by UK

Introduction of additional unnecessary paperwork to UK exports to EU

Threat by French trawlermen to blockade Channel Ports and actual blockade of Channel Islands

Threat to withdraw electricity supplies to Channel Islands

Warnings from EC re implementation of trade tariff and a "range of options" if UK fails to accept EU direction for goods moving from the mainland to NI

Application by EU of 20 times the border checks on goods moved to NI as to any other EU border

Triggering by EC of Article 16 of the Northern Ireland Protocol without consultation with UK or Ireland




​

 
Foolweary said:
Where has he been? Outside of your jingoistic, British Tory tinted propaganda bubble, clearly.
The British government demanded that deal with the EU, won an election on the strength of it, now the UK Government need to create constant conflict with the EU because sticking it up the EU wins them elections. If they quietly got on with business with the EU you'd soon realise they've been lying since Johnson got the job.
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Any fool can see that the EU's actions are going to result in violence in NI, except you apparently.
 
OMG black power has arrived. A poster who tells us how ridiculous we are but never puts forward an original thought.

Why don't you bookmark this page for when the rioting starts on the streets of Belfast and Larne because the inflexible EU won't revisit its failed NI policy
 
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Tangojoe said:
OMG black power has arrived. A poster who tells us how ridiculous we are but never puts forward an original thought.

Why don't you bookmark this page for when the rioting starts on the streets of Belfast and Larne because the inflexible EU won't revisit it's failed NI policy
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I’ll go on repeating it as long as is necessary but to recap…….

Johnson created the border between GB and NI when he signed up to his “oven ready deal”.

He didn’t need to. He could have supported May’s backstop which would have avoided precisely the problem he’s now facing.

It’s what you lot wanted. Now take responsibility and make it work.
 
BigHandsOliverKahn said:
A British created problem, resolved for 30 years by the UK being in the EU alongside ROI, recreated by Brexit.
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BHOK

Yes, to be fair you always make very balanced posts when Brexit is being discussed.

Britain joined the European Community in 1973 and Belfast must have been the most tranquil city on the planet during the 70's.

While there is no doubt that some posters make valid points re the issues in Northern Ireland and the Irish border, there can be no escaping the fact that some jump on the bandwagon of every single happening that has the slightest thing to do with Britain leaving the EU.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, before the EU referendum when the various topics were being discussed, we had posters informing us of empty shelves in UK supermarkets, limited medical supplies, big businesses queuing up to leave the UK and of the inevitable mass unemployment.

It would appear now that the big issues are fishing rights, the Irish borders and the huge recruitment problem meaning that the Tavern at the Mill are a man down on Sunday afternoons.

I appreciate that these issues will have a serious effect on the lives of some folk - I'm told the Tavern at the Mill do a belting carvery to be fair - but let's be honest with ourselves, most have survived perfectly well since Britain left the EU.

Don't let that get in the way of criticising the Government because the result of the referendum might not have gone your way though.
 
tommytwojags said:
According to the poll mentioned above, there is an increase of 9% in anti-EU feeling in Ireland. Not much, but following the general trend across Europe. This has absolutely nothing to do with Irish party politics



I'll give you a few starters


Blocking of UK owned covid vaccine exports from mainland EU to UK

Refusal to accept unprocessed UK shellfish even though they have been accepted for decades

Diversion and delay of perishable UK goods in transit to EU requiring products to be destroyed

Refusal to grant financial equivalence to UK banks and finance houses although reciprocal equivalence given by UK

Introduction of additional unnecessary paperwork to UK exports to EU

Threat by French trawlermen to blockade Channel Ports and actual blockade of Channel Islands

Threat to withdraw electricity supplies to Channel Islands

Warnings from EC re implementation of trade tariff and a "range of options" if UK fails to accept EU direction for goods moving from the mainland to NI

Application by EU of 20 times the border checks on goods moved to NI as to any other EU border

Triggering by EC of Article 16 of the Northern Ireland Protocol without consultation with UK or Ireland




​

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There isn't really much point in debating with you when you show either a complete lack of understanding or a wilful ignorance of the EU/UK relationship. On your first point, I haven't a clue what you are on about. On points 2 to 5 & 9, these problems have arisen solely because of the status bestowed on the UK following Johnson's Brexit deal, viz. that the UK is now a "third country", on a par with, say, The Gambia or Bolivia. It did not have to be like this but Johnson wanted the hardest of Brexit deals in order to "take back control". Points 6 & 7 had nothing to do with the EU but were as a result of unilateral action by the Jersey authorities and retaliation by the French NOT the EU. Point 8: the UK committed to implement a number of measures in the protocol within a specified period of time and has completely failed to do so. The border down the Irish sea was Johnson's solution to the problem created by his insistence that the UK left the single market and the customs union, NOT the EU,s. On your final point, the EU over-reached, made an error, quickly apologised and withdrew the measure - hardly the actions of a bully.
In summary, all this is a result of the Brexit that you wanted; when are you going to accept responsibility for the consequences of the Brexit deal and stop blaming the EU and others for them?
 
My last words on this subject.

Am I Irish? No, I'm English, however, My Great Grandfather on my mother's side came across from Sligo and I still have family in and around that area.

Who said what? In my submission, A lot was taken from an Irish journalist, Brendan O'Neill, and parts from various publications. Some historical stuff comes from Yanis Varoufakis and the EU's treatment of Greece.

My thoughts on Boris. A Bumbling Buffoon who has faced probably the worst crisis this country has faced since WW2. I can't think of anyone, without hindsight, who would have done any better, apart from someone in the mold of the hated Margaret Thatcher. But there is no one present in any of the parties who could have done much, if any better.

My thoughts on the Conservatives, One or two decent ministers, but one or two doesn't make a decent Gov't.

My thoughts on the opposition, Hopeless. They have backed the Gov't then U turned and denied they have. Have used afterthought as their main weapon against a Gov't that were at times extremely vulnerable. Have fallen for the Conservative way of doing things, fall out amongst yourselves and then depose and decry anyone who disagrees with you. Follow that with a supposed united front but with disgruntlement and vexation simmering in the background thus alienating your voters.

My thoughts on the EU. Not the one I originally voted for. Their accelerated rush towards a united Europe in the form of federalism is not my cup of tea. Free trade and friendship yes, but overall power in the hands of such a behemoth as this slow-moving tower of babel for failed politicians it has shown itself to be. The whole organisation is unwieldy, run by bureaucrats from certain countries who appear to favour the large economies and totally unwieldy when having to deal with problems, relying on going to court over solving the issue.

Finally my thoughts on Cummings. Summed up in a few words. A dangerous, self-opinionated, big baby and prick who would stab his own mother in her back if she scolded him or told him he was wrong.

So there you have it, that's Curryman for those that are interested.
 
kerrytangerine said:
There isn't really much point in debating with you when you show either a complete lack of understanding or a wilful ignorance of the EU/UK relationship. On your first point, I haven't a clue what you are on about.
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Well if you don't understand the complete ineptitude and incompetence of the European Commission in its vaccine procurement debacle and the subsequent unscrupulous blocking of vaccines to the UK in an attempt to slow down the UK's roll out and cover up its own comprehensive failure to order vaccines for its member states, then there's probably no point in discussing the other issues with you.
 
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Top and bottom. Northern Ireland is being sold down the river for an essentially English Brexit. It is almost inevitable that there will be a united Ireland in the not too distant future.
If he knew what what he was signing up for he's acting in bad faith and if he didn't know what he was signing up for, he's a buffoon .
 
If we could possibly put all the Brexit / Remain stuff to one side for a minute (I know, fat chance!)

The GFA worked because both sides of the Border, and indeed the UK and Eire, were part of the EU, for better or worse.

The Brexit deal they spent 4 years trying to make work, ultimately would never work, be it May or Johnson's version. The EU and UK would have to have a border, the argument was solely about where it would be, either Eire / NI, or NI / rest of UK.

Some problems do not have a fair solution
 
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