EU capitulates over NI Protocol

tommytwojags said:
According to the poll mentioned above, there is an increase of 9% in anti-EU feeling in Ireland. Not much, but following the general trend across Europe. This has absolutely nothing to do with Irish party politics



I'll give you a few starters


Blocking of UK owned covid vaccine exports from mainland EU to UK

Refusal to accept unprocessed UK shellfish even though they have been accepted for decades

Diversion and delay of perishable UK goods in transit to EU requiring products to be destroyed

Refusal to grant financial equivalence to UK banks and finance houses although reciprocal equivalence given by UK

Introduction of additional unnecessary paperwork to UK exports to EU

Threat by French trawlermen to blockade Channel Ports and actual blockade of Channel Islands

Threat to withdraw electricity supplies to Channel Islands

Warnings from EC re implementation of trade tariff and a "range of options" if UK fails to accept EU direction for goods moving from the mainland to NI

Application by EU of 20 times the border checks on goods moved to NI as to any other EU border

Triggering by EC of Article 16 of the Northern Ireland Protocol without consultation with UK or Ireland




​

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All caused by brexit, own the mess you wanted.
 
SEASIDE2020 said:
BHOK

Yes, to be fair you always make very balanced posts when Brexit is being discussed.

Britain joined the European Community in 1973 and Belfast must have been the most tranquil city on the planet during the 70's.

While there is no doubt that some posters make valid points re the issues in Northern Ireland and the Irish border, there can be no escaping the fact that some jump on the bandwagon of every single happening that has the slightest thing to do with Britain leaving the EU.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, before the EU referendum when the various topics were being discussed, we had posters informing us of empty shelves in UK supermarkets, limited medical supplies, big businesses queuing up to leave the UK and of the inevitable mass unemployment.

It would appear now that the big issues are fishing rights, the Irish borders and the huge recruitment problem meaning that the Tavern at the Mill are a man down on Sunday afternoons.

I appreciate that these issues will have a serious effect on the lives of some folk - I'm told the Tavern at the Mill do a belting carvery to be fair - but let's be honest with ourselves, most have survived perfectly well since Britain left the EU.

Don't let that get in the way of criticising the Government because the result of the referendum might not have gone your way though.
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You need to go back a lot earlier in history than the 1970's to learn how the British created the problem. It's over a 100 years since the problem got put in stone, and a couple of centuries earlier when the seeds of trouble were sown.
 
BigHandsOliverKahn said:
You need to go back a lot earlier in history than the 1970's to learn how the British created the problem. It's over a 100 years since the problem got put in stone, and a couple of centuries earlier when the seeds of trouble were sown.
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BHOK

I am not going to get into a debate with you over the troubles and who was or was not responsible because they have the square root of feck all to do with the EU.

Can we agree that the period of "peace" that you previously referred also had feck all to do with the EU as you appeared to suggest ?
or do you want to go on pretending otherwise.

On a wider point BHOK, you appear very unsatisfied with the result of the referendum and Britain leaving the EU.

I have no problem with that but it would appear that you sit there waiting for anything negative to happen that might have the slightest possible link to Britain leaving the EU and can't come on here quick enough to tell everybody that we are doomed.
 
SEASIDE2020 said:
BHOK

I am not going to get into a debate with you over the troubles and who was or was not responsible because they have the square root of feck all to do with the EU.

Can we agree that the period of "peace" that you previously referred also had feck all to do with the EU as you appeared to suggest ?
or do you want to go on pretending otherwise.

On a wider point BHOK, you appear very unsatisfied with the result of the referendum and Britain leaving the EU.

I have no problem with that but it would appear that you sit there waiting for anything negative to happen that might have the slightest possible link to Britain leaving the EU and can't come on here quick enough to tell everybody that we are doomed.
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Re your last para it’s probably worth remembering that BHOK didn’t start the thread. It was started by someone making the ridiculous assertion that because the U.K. had requested a three month extension that was a sign that the EU had “capitulated” in some way.

You now seem to be saying that BHOK isn’t allowed to post on the thread highlighting how nonsensical that claim was.

I have to say, of all the posters on here, I hadn’t expected you to be such an enthusiastic supporter of the cancel culture. Whatever happened to free speech?
 
SEASIDE2020 said:
BHOK

I am not going to get into a debate with you over the troubles and who was or was not responsible because they have the square root of feck all to do with the EU.

Can we agree that the period of "peace" that you previously referred also had feck all to do with the EU as you appeared to suggest ?
or do you want to go on pretending otherwise.

On a wider point BHOK, you appear very unsatisfied with the result of the referendum and Britain leaving the EU.

I have no problem with that but it would appear that you sit there waiting for anything negative to happen that might have the slightest possible link to Britain leaving the EU and can't come on here quick enough to tell everybody that we are doomed.
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If you cannot even see that peace came about because both the ROI and UK were under the same single common EU blanket which disolved differences and borders between the two countries, then I don't think you will ever be able to see that Brexit has put those differences and borders back up and is now causing trouble to reappear.
 
BigHandsOliverKahn said:
If you cannot even see that peace came about because both the ROI and UK were under the same single common EU blanket which disolved differences and borders between the two countries, then I don't think you will ever be able to see that Brexit has put those differences and borders back up and is now causing trouble to reappear.
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The trouble is brewing because those people who are causing the trouble see Brexit as a convenient excuse. They've been there all the time just waiting to start trouble again. If it wasn't Brexit, it would be something else.
 
BigHandsOliverKahn said:
If you cannot even see that peace came about because both the ROI and UK were under the same single common EU blanket which disolved differences and borders between the two countries, then I don't think you will ever be able to see that Brexit has put those differences and borders back up and is now causing trouble to reappear.
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The peace that exists in the province arose because of the will of the people and I'm sure would have happened with or without the EU. Having said that, the situation remains fragile and the evidence of that is clear to anyone who has travelled through the area. Tension continues to bubble just below the surface. The last thing NI needs is provocation of the kind we're now seeing. I'm not absolving the govt from blame because it was clear to me and I'm sure many others that creating a customs border between GB and NI and in effect annexing the province from the mainland was always going to create hostility on the part of the unionists. It's like poking a bear with a stick. In any event, a law that prevents UK food reaching another part of the UK, restricts the movement of pets inside a single country and other crazy things is ill-conceived.

However, now it's obvious to everyone that it's not working, it's up to the parties to revisit the issue and find an answer. Those who say it was agreed, so 'own it' or some other inane comment completely miss the point. If I agree with a builder that because my roof is leaking he should replace some slates, but then the roof collapses, I wouldn't expect him to say you agreed it now own it. I would expect him to say that didn't work so let's decide what we need to put this right. It's up to the UK and the EC to sit down and find an answer and the first step has to be to extend the current reliefs for a further three months. That's not capitulation by either side, it's the logical first step.

The most worrying aspect for me is that despite the EC's stated concerns about peace in NI, UVDL and the Commission really don't seem all that committed to peace. For them, peace is a poor second to protecting EU borders in terms of priorities. For the UK, it's the other way around. Peace is paramount and border protection is not all that important. Is there a solution? Definitely no win-win outcome. Whatever the result, it will have to allow the movement of fresh meat and other foods from the mainland to NI in a sensible manner. So, a compromise is needed with peace as its priority and this needs a goodwill approach from both sides, which doesn't seem to be there at present. Extending the current grace period is the first step. If the EC refuses to grant that extension and enter into meaningful discussions then it has to take the blame for the outcome.
 
RUSTY_2_STANDS said:
The trouble is brewing because those people who are causing the trouble see Brexit as a convenient excuse. They've been there all the time just waiting to start trouble again. If it wasn't Brexit, it would be something else.
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What absolute rubbish. It is 100% a result of Johnsons Brexit deal which puts a border down the Irish Sea and, in their eyes, threatens the Unionists British identity. Why is nothing ever the fault of Brexit?
 
tommytwojags said:
The peace that exists in the province arose because of the will of the people and I'm sure would have happened with or without the EU. Having said that, the situation remains fragile and the evidence of that is clear to anyone who has travelled through the area. Tension continues to bubble just below the surface. The last thing NI needs is provocation of the kind we're now seeing. I'm not absolving the govt from blame because it was clear to me and I'm sure many others that creating a customs border between GB and NI and in effect annexing the province from the mainland was always going to create hostility on the part of the unionists. It's like poking a bear with a stick. In any event, a law that prevents UK food reaching another part of the UK, restricts the movement of pets inside a single country and other crazy things is ill-conceived.

However, now it's obvious to everyone that it's not working, it's up to the parties to revisit the issue and find an answer. Those who say it was agreed, so 'own it' or some other inane comment completely miss the point. If I agree with a builder that because my roof is leaking he should replace some slates, but then the roof collapses, I wouldn't expect him to say you agreed it now own it. I would expect him to say that didn't work so let's decide what we need to put this right. It's up to the UK and the EC to sit down and find an answer and the first step has to be to extend the current reliefs for a further three months. That's not capitulation by either side, it's the logical first step.

The most worrying aspect for me is that despite the EC's stated concerns about peace in NI, UVDL and the Commission really don't seem all that committed to peace. For them, peace is a poor second to protecting EU borders in terms of priorities. For the UK, it's the other way around. Peace is paramount and border protection is not all that important. Is there a solution? Definitely no win-win outcome. Whatever the result, it will have to allow the movement of fresh meat and other foods from the mainland to NI in a sensible manner. So, a compromise is needed with peace as its priority and this needs a goodwill approach from both sides, which doesn't seem to be there at present. Extending the current grace period is the first step. If the EC refuses to grant that extension and enter into meaningful discussions then it has to take the blame for the outcome.
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Yet we Remainers were told to shut up and move on. As the Brexit deal was created by and for the Brexiteers, I don't think it's unreasonable that those responsible should indeed 'own' it.
 
tommytwojags said:
The peace that exists in the province arose because of the will of the people and I'm sure would have happened with or without the EU. Having said that, the situation remains fragile and the evidence of that is clear to anyone who has travelled through the area. Tension continues to bubble just below the surface. The last thing NI needs is provocation of the kind we're now seeing. I'm not absolving the govt from blame because it was clear to me and I'm sure many others that creating a customs border between GB and NI and in effect annexing the province from the mainland was always going to create hostility on the part of the unionists. It's like poking a bear with a stick. In any event, a law that prevents UK food reaching another part of the UK, restricts the movement of pets inside a single country and other crazy things is ill-conceived.

However, now it's obvious to everyone that it's not working, it's up to the parties to revisit the issue and find an answer. Those who say it was agreed, so 'own it' or some other inane comment completely miss the point. If I agree with a builder that because my roof is leaking he should replace some slates, but then the roof collapses, I wouldn't expect him to say you agreed it now own it. I would expect him to say that didn't work so let's decide what we need to put this right. It's up to the UK and the EC to sit down and find an answer and the first step has to be to extend the current reliefs for a further three months. That's not capitulation by either side, it's the logical first step.

The most worrying aspect for me is that despite the EC's stated concerns about peace in NI, UVDL and the Commission really don't seem all that committed to peace. For them, peace is a poor second to protecting EU borders in terms of priorities. For the UK, it's the other way around. Peace is paramount and border protection is not all that important. Is there a solution? Definitely no win-win outcome. Whatever the result, it will have to allow the movement of fresh meat and other foods from the mainland to NI in a sensible manner. So, a compromise is needed with peace as its priority and this needs a goodwill approach from both sides, which doesn't seem to be there at present. Extending the current grace period is the first step. If the EC refuses to grant that extension and enter into meaningful discussions then it has to take the blame for the outcome.
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OK I'll bite again. Firstly, the builder analogy is ridiculous unless of course you have signed an international treaty with said builder which commits both parties to do certain things within an agreed timeframe. The EU have kept to their ice of the bargain, the UK have not; yet it is the EU who must compromise. The EU have proposed an eminently reasonable solution to the UK which would allow 80% of meat products cross fromGB to NI but this has been rejected by the UK as it is ideologically opposed to arbitration of disputes by the ECJ. You cannot keep passing the buck on this. Either there is a border down the Irish Sea or on the island of Ireland. The latter would be disastrous for peace, the GFA would collapse and the US and the EU would become even more engaged as guarantors of the GFA.
 
kerrytangerine said:
What absolute rubbish. It is 100% a result of Johnsons Brexit deal which puts a border down the Irish Sea and, in their eyes, threatens the Unionists British identity. Why is nothing ever the fault of Brexit?
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I could say you're talking absolute rubbish as well. In other words, I don't agree with your opinion.
 
tommytwojags said:
The peace that exists in the province arose because of the will of the people and I'm sure would have happened with or without the EU. Having said that, the situation remains fragile and the evidence of that is clear to anyone who has travelled through the area. Tension continues to bubble just below the surface. The last thing NI needs is provocation of the kind we're now seeing. I'm not absolving the govt from blame because it was clear to me and I'm sure many others that creating a customs border between GB and NI and in effect annexing the province from the mainland was always going to create hostility on the part of the unionists. It's like poking a bear with a stick. In any event, a law that prevents UK food reaching another part of the UK, restricts the movement of pets inside a single country and other crazy things is ill-conceived.

However, now it's obvious to everyone that it's not working, it's up to the parties to revisit the issue and find an answer. Those who say it was agreed, so 'own it' or some other inane comment completely miss the point. If I agree with a builder that because my roof is leaking he should replace some slates, but then the roof collapses, I wouldn't expect him to say you agreed it now own it. I would expect him to say that didn't work so let's decide what we need to put this right. It's up to the UK and the EC to sit down and find an answer and the first step has to be to extend the current reliefs for a further three months. That's not capitulation by either side, it's the logical first step.

The most worrying aspect for me is that despite the EC's stated concerns about peace in NI, UVDL and the Commission really don't seem all that committed to peace. For them, peace is a poor second to protecting EU borders in terms of priorities. For the UK, it's the other way around. Peace is paramount and border protection is not all that important. Is there a solution? Definitely no win-win outcome. Whatever the result, it will have to allow the movement of fresh meat and other foods from the mainland to NI in a sensible manner. So, a compromise is needed with peace as its priority and this needs a goodwill approach from both sides, which doesn't seem to be there at present. Extending the current grace period is the first step. If the EC refuses to grant that extension and enter into meaningful discussions then it has to take the blame for the outcome.
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The compromise has always been to be in the Single Market. It's the UK who made the problem, the UK who now maintain the problem and the UK who can easily solve the problem.
 
BigHandsOliverKahn said:
The compromise has always been to be in the Single Market. It's the UK who made the problem, the UK who now maintain the problem and the UK who can easily solve the problem.
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Nobody can 'easily' solve the Irish problem, but both sides have to try and find a workable resolution. And TTJ is correct that it makes no sense for the EU to keep repeating that the UK agreed to this therefore it must happen. Also, it's a matter for the Commission. It's not for France to keep poking its nose into the dispute. Fortunately, as the OP says, it looks like there might finally be some welcome compromise from Brussels, which even Simon Coveney seems to think is right.
kerrytangerine said:
OK I'll bite again. Firstly, the builder analogy is ridiculous unless of course you have signed an international treaty with said builder which commits both parties to do certain things within an agreed timeframe. The EU have kept to their ice of the bargain, the UK have not; yet it is the EU who must compromise.
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I agree with TJ's builder analogy. A contract with the builder is no different to an international treaty to the extent that it binds both parties to agreed terms. If the agreement goes wrong for whatever reason, the normal solution is for both parties to put their heads together and sort it out. In the meantime the site has to be made good. That is, the roof has to be made watertight/the movement of goods to NI has to continue. Opposition by the EC to an extension of the period of grace while things are resolved has been churlish.
 
Merry Andrew said:
Nobody can 'easily' solve the Irish problem, but both sides have to try and find a workable resolution. And TTJ is correct that it makes no sense for the EU to keep repeating that the UK agreed to this therefore it must happen. Also, it's a matter for the Commission. It's not for France to keep poking its nose into the dispute. Fortunately, as the OP says, it looks like there might finally be some welcome compromise from Brussels, which even Simon Coveney seems to think is right.


I agree with TJ's builder analogy. A contract with the builder is no different to an international treaty to the extent that it binds both parties to agreed terms. If the agreement goes wrong for whatever reason, the normal solution is for both parties to put their heads together and sort it out. In the meantime the site has to be made good. That is, the roof has to be made watertight/the movement of goods to NI has to continue. Opposition by the EC to an extension of the period of grace while things are resolved has been churlish.
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How can you agree with the builder analogy when in your previous paragraph you say there might be welcome compromise from Brussels. How does that fit in with 'binds both parties to agreed terms'? Terms were agreed and ignored and not by the EU.
 
Wizaard said:
That's because it's appropriate. If we were still in the EU, none of these issues would be happening. That's a fact, or do you dispute that?
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The brexit dispute has helped to bring things to a head in Northern Ireland, but the tensions have been simmering for ages now. There are signs of sectarian friction all the way from Derry to Belfast. There have been protests, rioting and setting fire to cars on a near-nightly basis in a number of towns and cities. In truth, there's far more to it than Brexit. Part of it relates to the decision to not prosecute leaders of Sinn Féin for breaching Covid regulations at the funeral of ex-IRA chief Bobby Storey, part concerns loyalist paramilitaries retaliating over a police clampdown in Carrickfergus. However you look at it, it's likely that this would be happening if we were still in the EU. Even more reason, therefore, to stop provoking the situation.
 
tommytwojags said:
The brexit dispute has helped to bring things to a head in Northern Ireland, but the tensions have been simmering for ages now. There are signs of sectarian friction all the way from Derry to Belfast. There have been protests, rioting and setting fire to cars on a near-nightly basis in a number of towns and cities. In truth, there's far more to it than Brexit. Part of it relates to the decision to not prosecute leaders of Sinn Féin for breaching Covid regulations at the funeral of ex-IRA chief Bobby Storey, part concerns loyalist paramilitaries retaliating over a police clampdown in Carrickfergus. However you look at it, it's likely that this would be happening if we were still in the EU. Even more reason, therefore, to stop provoking the situation.
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Yes, there are tensions, but having a border is the flash point. Of course it could erupt over something else, but that's not the point of the thread.
 
Wizaard said:
Yes, there are tensions, but having a border is the flash point. Of course it could erupt over something else, but that's not the point of the thread.
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You said if we were still in the EU, none of these issues would be happening. I'm saying that's not the case. The violence in Ireland would still happen.
 
Wizaard said:
How can you agree with the builder analogy when in your previous paragraph you say there might be welcome compromise from Brussels. How does that fit in with 'binds both parties to agreed terms'? Terms were agreed and ignored and not by the EU.
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Easy. When a contract can't be satisfied because of the circumstances (the agreement is unworkable/the roof has collapsed) it doesn't matter about ignored terms. Unless one of the parties is culpable and intentionally breached the terms in order to gain an advantage, it's reasonable to expect sensible and mature parties to look again at what is needed to make things right and to agree how to proceed.

I don't believe the UK has attempted to gain an advantage, certainly not a pecuniary advantage. Maybe you think it has. Then again there seems to be no logical explanation for the EC insisting on x 20 the border checks in NI than at other EU border points so maybe the EU has scope to be more reasonable.
 
Merry Andrew said:
Easy. When a contract can't be satisfied because of the circumstances (the agreement is unworkable/the roof has collapsed) it doesn't matter about ignored terms. Unless one of the parties is culpable and intentionally breached the terms in order to gain an advantage, it's reasonable to expect sensible and mature parties to look again at what is needed to make things right and to agree how to proceed.

I don't believe the UK has attempted to gain an advantage, certainly not a pecuniary advantage. Maybe you think it has. Then again there seems to be no logical explanation for the EC insisting on x 20 the border checks in NI than at other EU border points so maybe the EU has scope to be more reasonable.
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here we go again. The reason why there are more border checks at the NI border than there are at most other EU borders is because those other "third countries" have negotiated favourable (to both parties) trade deals with the EU. Johnson and Frost (he who wears Union Jack socks to meetings - very mature behaviour) negotiated the hardest deal possible so that the UK could be completely independent form EU oversight. You can't have it both ways. As I said on another thread, the EU offered a deal to the UK which would have exempted 80% of meat products from checks but the UK turned it down because it would have meant oversight in the last resort by the ECJ.
 
I there are 5 categories of people.

1. Those who can see what will happen in future a long time before it happens
2. Those who can see what will happen in future just before it is about to happen
3. Those who can see now something is happening
4. Those who start to see once something has been happening for a long time
5. Those who still cannot see even though something has been happening for a long time

I think with Brexit and Northern Ireland, voters needed to be in Group 1 to avoid the problems we now have. The other 4 categories of people will have either considered the issues only when it was too late or now still be unable to see and stuck in a state of denial.
 
kerrytangerine said:
here we go again. The reason why there are more border checks at the NI border than there are at most other EU borders is because those other "third countries" have negotiated favourable (to both parties) trade deals with the EU. Johnson and Frost (he who wears Union Jack socks to meetings - very mature behaviour) negotiated the hardest deal possible so that the UK could be completely independent form EU oversight. You can't have it both ways. As I said on another thread, the EU offered a deal to the UK which would have exempted 80% of meat products from checks but the UK turned it down because it would have meant oversight in the last resort by the ECJ.
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First, you're not aware of the EC's hostile block on the movement of the UK's vaccines from the the European mainland, then you put the EU border control games on the mainland down to the UK being a third country. Does that include the French officials diverting perishable foods to different ports and rejecting documents for 'wrong coloured ink' and holding up consignments for being entered on the 'wrong day'?

On top of that, you tell us the reason for the massively increased checks at the NI border compared with other EU borders is because those other 'third countries' have negotiated favourable deals with the EU. The media report on excessive checks being required on NI freight movements was a comparison with imports at Rotterdam and the countries of origin were not revealed. So not only is what you say unsubstantiated and inaccurate but it's bullshit too.
 
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Mexboroseasider said:
Re your last para it’s probably worth remembering that BHOK didn’t start the thread. It was started by someone making the ridiculous assertion that because the U.K. had requested a three month extension that was a sign that the EU had “capitulated” in some way.

You now seem to be saying that BHOK isn’t allowed to post on the thread highlighting how nonsensical that claim was.

I have to say, of all the posters on here, I hadn’t expected you to be such an enthusiastic supporter of the cancel culture. Whatever happened to free speech?
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Mex

BHOK can say whatever he wants.

I have no big problem with BHOK and certainly don't feel there is any need for his posts - on this or any other thread - to be censored.

I have no idea why you are banging on about cancel culture and free speech because I was just commenting on what BHOK had said.

BHOK talked about peace in Northern Ireland and somehow linked that to Britain's membership of the EU and I explained how ridiculous that was.

After I'd exposed that nonsense, he went into the history of the troubles, I had no desire to discuss this with him but I did explain to him how I felt that he was determined to link every single happening, link it to Brexit, dramatise it and on come on here and inform us how Britain was doomed because of Brexit.

You may also have noticed that I clearly stated to BHOK that there was no problem with him being unsatisfied with the result of the EU referendum and I'm struggling to see why you would come to the conclusion that I felt BHOK shouldn't be allowed to post on here ?

I feel that generally BHOK is a disciplined poster in that he keeps to the debate and I have commended him on this before but don't let that get in the way of your agenda.

I probably really should have just said that once again your post demonstrates the difference between AVFTT and the real world, where we have folk less than satisfied with Britain leaving the EU after a democratic referendum now dramatising every little issue and explaining how we are doomed, it's almost as if their quest to prove that Brexit was wrong outweighs their will for the country to prosper.

We've now had the Irish borders, fishing rights and the recruitment problems at the Tavern at the Mill, what's up for discussion today gents ?

How about food shortages ?
 
BigHandsOliverKahn said:
If you cannot even see that peace came about because both the ROI and UK were under the same single common EU blanket which disolved differences and borders between the two countries, then I don't think you will ever be able to see that Brexit has put those differences and borders back up and is now causing trouble to reappear.
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BHOK

The "troubles" were not caused by the EU or resolved by the EU as you are aware.
 
BigHandsOliverKahn said:
I there are 5 categories of people.

1. Those who can see what will happen in future a long time before it happens
2. Those who can see what will happen in future just before it is about to happen
3. Those who can see now something is happening
4. Those who start to see once something has been happening for a long time
5. Those who still cannot see even though something has been happening for a long time

I think with Brexit and Northern Ireland, voters needed to be in Group 1 to avoid the problems we now have. The other 4 categories of people will have either considered the issues only when it was too late or now still be unable to see and stuck in a state of denial.
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Fcuking hell! The board idiot lecturing people. I've seen it all now 😂
 
SEASIDE2020 said:
Mex

BHOK can say whatever he wants.

I have no big problem with BHOK and certainly don't feel there is any need for his posts - on this or any other thread - to be censored.

I have no idea why you are banging on about cancel culture and free speech because I was just commenting on what BHOK had said.

BHOK talked about peace in Northern Ireland and somehow linked that to Britain's membership of the EU and I explained how ridiculous that was.

After I'd exposed that nonsense, he went into the history of the troubles, I had no desire to discuss this with him but I did explain to him how I felt that he was determined to link every single happening, link it to Brexit, dramatise it and on come on here and inform us how Britain was doomed because of Brexit.

You may also have noticed that I clearly stated to BHOK that there was no problem with him being unsatisfied with the result of the EU referendum and I'm struggling to see why you would come to the conclusion that I felt BHOK shouldn't be allowed to post on here ?

I feel that generally BHOK is a disciplined poster in that he keeps to the debate and I have commended him on this before but don't let that get in the way of your agenda.

I probably really should have just said that once again your post demonstrates the difference between AVFTT and the real world, where we have folk less than satisfied with Britain leaving the EU after a democratic referendum now dramatising every little issue and explaining how we are doomed, it's almost as if their quest to prove that Brexit was wrong outweighs their will for the country to prosper.

We've now had the Irish borders, fishing rights and the recruitment problems at the Tavern at the Mill, what's up for discussion today gents ?

How about food shortages ?
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I’m pleased you’ve withdrawn your assertion that BHOK was not free to post what he thinks.
 
Merry Andrew said:
First, you're not aware of the EC's hostile block on the movement of the UK's vaccines from the the European mainland
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Is that the block that lasted all of three hours? In the middle of the night? And had zero impact in the real world and was withdrawn the moment it was pointed out to UVDL that she’d dropped a ricket?

And is it an example of the “dramatics” 2020 is referring to?
 
Mexboroseasider said:
Is that the block that lasted all of three hours? In the middle of the night? And had zero impact in the real world and was withdrawn the moment it was pointed out to UVDL that she’d dropped a ricket?

And is it an example of the “dramatics” 2020 is referring to?
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Wake up. He's talking about VDL blocking the export of vaccines outside the EU including vaccines that the UK had paid for three months before she got round to ordering any from Astra Zenica which was before she decided to take the UK to court, which was before she decided that the vaccine didn't work anyway, which was before she panicked and sued AZ, which was before the court said the EC had no case and should pay AZ's costs, which was before it was found that the German vaccine had failed, which was before she decided that the AZ vaccine was now alright and should be used in the EU.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
I’m pleased you’ve withdrawn your assertion that BHOK was not free to post what he thinks.
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Mex

No big deal but I honestly don't know where you were coming from ?

I may have questioned BHOK's post and I certainly made it clear that he feel he tries to link any negativity to Britain leaving the EU but I never suggested that he was not free to post and never have done so god knows why you should say I've withdrawn any assertion.

I never made an assertion that BHOK was not free to post what he thinks.
 
tommytwojags said:
Wake up. He's talking about VDL blocking the export of vaccines outside the EU including vaccines that the UK had paid for three months before she got round to ordering any from Astra Zenica which was before she decided to take the UK to court, which was before she decided that the vaccine didn't work anyway, which was before she panicked and sued AZ, which was before the court said the EC had no case and should pay AZ's costs, which was before it was found that the German vaccine had failed, which was before she decided that the AZ vaccine was now alright and should be used in the EU.
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Ah right. So you were talking about the block that lasted all of three hours; in the middle of the night: which was withdrawn immediately the Irish PM rang the EUC. Glad we cleared that up.

As for the court action, as you lot frequently said at the beginning of the spat, the dispute was between the EU and AZ over the terms of the contract and had nothing to do with the U.K. Or have you changed your minds about that as well?
 
Mexboroseasider said:
Ah right. So you were talking about the block that lasted all of three hours; in the middle of the night: which was withdrawn immediately the Irish PM rang the EUC. Glad we cleared that up.

As for the court action, as you lot frequently said at the beginning of the spat, the dispute was between the EU and AZ over the terms of the contract and had nothing to do with the U.K. Or have you changed your minds about that as well?
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I was talking about Merry's post concerning the EC's block on vaccine exports, applied first to Australia and then to other non-EU countries including the UK. There were plenty of posts about it on here if you missed it. I just don't understand the EC wanting to block the export of life-saving drugs to countries in need.

Not sure who "you lot" are, but I assume you were referring to those who commented on the AZ court case. What an amazing display by Ursula of how to totally humiliate yourself. She was so blinded by her obsession with punishing the UK that she blundered into yet another disaster in picking an unnecessary fight with AZ while the whole of Europe cringed at her poor judgment and subsequent humiliation, capped off only by her classic claim that the EC had won the case.
 
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