Fascist Government in Italy

Malced said:
You’ve ignored the real problems presented by overwhelming amounts of Islamic immigrants who cause real social issues in European counties.

It’s not for Europe to solve the issues across the world. Putting this down to Europe bombing counties is so ridiculous. We aren’t bombing anyone. The simple fact is that our modern civilisations and all the attached advantages will always be a magnet to economic migrants.

If you’re ok with open borders then say so. But there’s a never ending supply of migrants. So you better have a strategy for what we’re going to do once all the hotels are full and we’re seeing more racist Islamic behaviour such as we’re seeing in Leicester and across Europe.

In the meantime let’s just criticise the Italians cos they’re clearly a bunch of racist fascists. They and Sweden and the UK should move over and give up our way of life cos we’re privileged and don’t deserve peace and Christian values.

Maybe the idea is to let European countries be ruined and turned into lawless shitholes. At least then they won’t be such magnets. Problem solved.
Click to expand...
Islamic? The trouble in Leicester involved Hindus as well. Are they all the same in your eyes?
 
Wizaard said:
Islamic? The trouble in Leicester involved Hindus as well. Are they all the same in your eyes?
Click to expand...

If I say they’re Islamic they’re clearly not all the same.
It was widely reported that there were racial tensions between the Islamists and the Hindus. The Islamists were bussing in folk from other cities and were harassing the Hindus at their temples. That’s what I’ve seen. What’s your views on this? You’re very good at sitting on the fence and thus quietly sanctioning such despicable behaviour.

Yes the troubles in Sweden and Italy and other counties are from islamists. They’re not troubled by Jews or hidus or bhuddists or anyone else. So it is what it is. No one would have a problem if problems weren’t being caused.

Let’s get back to the Italians and the reason they’ve suddenly become so ‘fascist’. Did they just wake up one day and feel like lurching to right? Please explain your theory as to their voting tendencies. You know better cos you don’t live there so you can sit on your high and mighty pedestal and criticise. You’re clueless.
 
Malced said:
You’ve ignored the real problems presented by overwhelming amounts of Islamic immigrants who cause real social issues in European counties.

It’s not for Europe to solve the issues across the world. Putting this down to Europe bombing counties is so ridiculous. We aren’t bombing anyone. The simple fact is that our modern civilisations and all the attached advantages will always be a magnet to economic migrants.

If you’re ok with open borders then say so. But there’s a never ending supply of migrants. So you better have a strategy for what we’re going to do once all the hotels are full and we’re seeing more racist Islamic behaviour such as we’re seeing in Leicester and across Europe.

In the meantime let’s just criticise the Italians cos they’re clearly a bunch of racist fascists. They and Sweden and the UK should move over and give up our way of life cos we’re privileged and don’t deserve peace and Christian values.

Maybe the idea is to let European countries be ruined and turned into lawless shitholes. At least then they won’t be such magnets. Problem solved.
Click to expand...
your wasting your energy, they are blind to it. I’ve yet to hear any of them willing to put up any migrants. like you say once the four star hotels are full where then?, church halls, sports centres , schools, it’s serious shit that is conveniently ignored by the guardianIstas and most Main stream news.
ah but my doctor is an immigrant they say, yep that old chestnut, i but you don’t step off a £19.99 rubber dinghy at Dover and get a job as a GP the next day!! Well not in the real world anyway😁
 
foggy said:
link.springer.com

Immigration and crime: evidence from victimization data - Journal of Population Economics

We exploit the increase in immigration flows into western European countries that took place in the 2000s to assess whether immigration affects crime victimization and the perception of criminality among European natives. Using data from the European Social Survey, the Labour Force Survey and...
link.springer.com link.springer.com

link.springer.com

Crime and immigration: new evidence from England and Wales - IZA Journal of Development and Migration

We study a high profile public policy question on immigration, namely the link between crime and immigration, presenting new evidence from England and Wales in the 2000s. For studying immigration impacts, this period is of considerable interest as the composition of migration to the UK altered...
link.springer.com link.springer.com

www.iza.org

Crime and Immigration: Evidence from Large Immigrant Waves

This paper examines the relationship between immigration and crime in a setting where large migration flows offer an opportunity to carefully appraise...
www.iza.org

https://www.researchgate.net/public...oners_in_the_UK_Explanations_and_Implications

www.tandfonline.com

Urban crime rates and the changing face of immigration: Evidence across four decades

Research has shown little support for the enduring proposition that increases in immigration are associated with increases in crime. Although classical criminological and neoclassical economic theo...
www.tandfonline.com

wol.iza.org

Crime and immigration

Do poor labor market opportunities lead to migrant crime?
wol.iza.org wol.iza.org
Click to expand...

Have you read those, or just done a quick Google search, because what's interesting is that the ones that support your position appear to focus on legal EU migrants, and the one that addresses the non-legal situation (Bell) appears to directly contradict it.

Also, although you chose to ignore it, the studies that suggest immigration is beneficial to the economy are more nuanced than you seem to think.
 
Lost Seasider said:
Have you read those, or just done a quick Google search, because what's interesting is that the ones that support your position appear to focus on legal EU migrants, and the one that addresses the non-legal situation (Bell) appears to directly contradict it.

Also, although you chose to ignore it, the studies that suggest immigration is beneficial to the economy are more nuanced than you seem to think.
Click to expand...
No, the Bell study did not contradict anything. Please read it again. Firstly, there was no impact on violent crime, only property crime. I am more or less fine based on my own understanding to say that there is a risk of higher property crime rates among illegal immigrants, as the data says that crime stays the same or is reduced as you accept these people into society, give them job prospects etc. If you are an illegal immigrant/refugee having to stay somewhat outside the system, unfortunately being more susceptible to property crime matches completely what I believe and data shows about the economic impact on crime. This is the conclusion of the study, that extremely poor job prospects, lack of training, lack of assimilation, lack of language studying, are quite obviously factors. Given what the data shows, countries should be doing a better job of processing these people, integrating them into society, training them join a higher skilled workforce. I could absolutely flood you with reports on the economic benefits of immigration, it's just not from Guido Fawkes so I don't know what you will think about it. Let's start with this one https://www.oecd.org/migration/OECD Migration Policy Debates Numero 2.pdf. Let me ask you a question, given that a country such as Italy is struggling with steep decline in birth rates, how on Earth can their economy even survive without immigration?
 
foggy said:
Given what the data shows, countries should be doing a better job of processing these people, integrating them into society, training them join a higher skilled workforce
Click to expand...

The problem is that the migrants crossing into Italy don't speak Italian (or English), tend to have very minimal education or skills, so the idea that you can integrate them into society as skilled and productive workers is fantasy.


foggy said:
I could absolutely flood you with reports on the economic benefits of immigration, it's just not from Guido Fawkes so I don't know what you will think about it. Let's start with this one https://www.oecd.org/migration/OECD Migration Policy Debates Numero 2.pdf.
Click to expand...

As I said, the subject is considerably more complicated than a 4-page summary, and it really comes down to what type of migration you have, who wins and loses, and other constraints on the society in question.


foggy said:
Let me ask you a question, given that a country such as Italy is struggling with steep decline in birth rates, how on Earth can their economy even survive without immigration?
Click to expand...

Maybe reverse the decline in birth rates, or get used to having a smaller population and economy, the economy isn't going to cease to exist simply because the population falls from 70 million to 60 million.
 
Lost Seasider said:
The problem is that the migrants crossing into Italy don't speak Italian (or English), tend to have very minimal education or skills, so the idea that you can integrate them into society as skilled and productive workers is fantasy.




As I said, the subject is considerably more complicated than a 4-page summary, and it really comes down to what type of migration you have, who wins and loses, and other constraints on the society in question.




Maybe reverse the decline in birth rates, or get used to having a smaller population and economy, the economy isn't going to cease to exist simply because the population falls from 70 million to 60 million.
Click to expand...
Oh well if they don't speak the language and aren't educated that's it then isn't it. It's not as if there are pretty easy policy things you can do to improve that.

Go look at birth rates across developed countries. This is a global phenomenon. You can't just click your heels and say ' increase birth rates'. Every single country in the OECD/G20 would love to do that. And I'm sorry, you are probably going to call this abuse, but I honestly feel the need to say this, hand on heart, that your fallback of 'who cares if the economy shrinks as long as it isn't wiped out of existence completely' is really the worst argument I've ever heard on this issue. Id have more respect for you if you just said you don't like foreigners or something.
 
So Sky News just had some professor on who’s apparently an expert on Italian far-right politics. The bulletin was introduced with the context that Sweden, Italy, France and Spain etc have all see the far-right make gains in recent years.

I was really interested in hearing the answer to a specific question posed to the professor about why the Italians have been drawn to the far-right. However, he answered a different question for about three minutes - he waffled away about how the voter turn out was down as people are disenchanted with politics. He said the turnout was only 69% compared to previous elections where it was in the seventh and eighty percents.

‘We must leave it there’ the presenter concluded. How convenient. No mention whatsoever as to why folk across Europe are being drawn to the far-right. No mention at all. If was all very reminiscent of Brexit where those in denial would highlight the inadequacy of the democratic system (a democratic system they were happy with until it delivered the ‘wrong’ result).

With regards to immigration in general, it’s a very useful and perhaps essential thing. However it’s not the right thing to have immigration which leads to huge social issues as we have seen in Sweden. There’s ways of managing immigration for the benefit of all, including the immigrants. No one wants social unrest and divided communities. But that’s what is being seen increasingly across Europe - no wonder then that citizens are baulking at this.
 
foggy said:
Oh well if they don't speak the language and aren't educated that's it then isn't it. It's not as if there are pretty easy policy things you can do to improve that.
Click to expand...

Such as teaching them?

You understand we're talking about the most basic things here such as reading and writing, and even if it was possible to make gains there (and adults are less adept at learning) the cost would be enormous.


foggy said:
Go look at birth rates across developed countries. This is a global phenomenon. You can't just click your heels and say ' increase birth rates'. Every single country in the OECD/G20 would love to do that. And I'm sorry, you are probably going to call this abuse, but I honestly feel the need to say this, hand on heart, that your fallback of 'who cares if the economy shrinks as long as it isn't wiped out of existence completely' is really the worst argument I've ever heard on this issue.
Click to expand...

Now you need to work out why birth rates are falling.


foggy said:
Id have more respect for you if you just said you don't like foreigners or something.
Click to expand...

Quite the opposite, I like Italy and Italians, that's why i'm not so keen on seeing their society destroyed.
 
Lost Seasider said:
Such as teaching them?

You understand we're talking about the most basic things here such as reading and writing, and even if it was possible to make gains there (and adults are less adept at learning) the cost would be enormous.




Now you need to work out why birth rates are falling.




Quite the opposite, I like Italy and Italians, that's why i'm not so keen on seeing their society destroyed.
Click to expand...
So you are making the argument that the most very basic things are potentially impossible to make gains in? Do you have any sources to suggest it is impossible to teach people basic language skills, how to read and write, and that it would cost more than the money brought in? I'm confused because a post ago you were willing to tank an economy instead of simply increasing population through immigration.
 
foggy said:
So you are making the argument that the most very basic things are potentially impossible to make gains in? Do you have any sources to suggest it is impossible to teach people basic language skills, how to read and write, and that it would cost more than the money brought in? I'm confused because a post ago you were willing to tank an economy instead of simply increasing population through immigration.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, are you really suggesting that they send them all to primary school?
 
foggy said:
Have you really never heard of adult schooling, or the general concept of teaching adults?
Click to expand...

Yes, however, they tend to have at least some education already, plus the ability to speak the language, and it tends to be aimed at improving skills, not going back to day 1 at primary school.
 
Lost Seasider said:
Yes, however, they tend to have at least some education already, plus the ability to speak the language, and it tends to be aimed at improving skills, not going back to day 1 at primary school.
Click to expand...
Listen, I don't know what to tell you. Teaching someone how to read and write and language is not beyond human comprehension. These programmes for refugees exist.
 
foggy said:
Listen, I don't know what to tell you. Teaching someone how to read and write and language is not beyond human comprehension. These programmes for refugees exist.
Click to expand...

I understand that, what you don't seem to grasp is the scale of the problem.
 
TSSeasider said:
I do love how we polarise politics by using the word 'far' - far right, far left blah blah.

A new democratically elected government in Italy is elected on a mandate to lower taxation, grow the indigenous birth rate through benefits/tax breaks, become self reliant in terms of energy and to manage immigration better - will remain in the EU and at the heart of Europe - and has a woman leader is called 'far' right

Absolute bollocks.

There's a sub-sect of the population who really don't like the idea of universal suffrage as it gives the wrong answer.

Edited to add; I'm not convinced that borrowing to fund tax cuts and benefit increases is a good use of public money or that it will work - in the same way I don't think it'll work here - I hope I'm wrong obviously.
Click to expand...
My view is that within liberal democracies there is a liberal left and right. They are tied into tolerant views on sexuality, cultural differentiation and racial/ethnic integration.
Outside of that consensus are intolerant wings of both left wing and right wing philosophies. They are intolerant of these cultural, ethnic and sexual differences. They manifest their intolerance through restrictive legislation, anti-tolerance propaganda, bullying and restrictions on employment, social and economic opportunities. That is what is meant by far left and far right.
 
Last edited:
Lost Seasider said:
You really don't have an economics background do you?
Click to expand...
I know that someone being against a policy cause it costs a bit but uncaring that a policy he likes would shrink the economy is entirely inconsistent. I also know not to take condescension on the economy from a man who didn't think Labour spent any money on bailing out banks then ran away from the argument when he realised he was just a bit wrong.
 
foggy said:
I know that someone being against a policy cause it costs a bit but uncaring that a policy he likes would shrink the economy is entirely inconsistent. I also know not to take condescension on the economy from a man who didn't think Labour spent any money on bailing out banks then ran away from the argument when he realised he was just a bit wrong.
Click to expand...
I bet all those idiots who bought your book are gutted now

You look a right tit
 
foggy said:
I know that someone being against a policy cause it costs a bit but uncaring that a policy he likes would shrink the economy is entirely inconsistent. I also know not to take condescension on the economy from a man who didn't think Labour spent any money on bailing out banks then ran away from the argument when he realised he was just a bit wrong.
Click to expand...

Okay, but here's a question for you: two countries, which would you rather live in:
  • country A, GDP 700;
  • country B, GDP 12,000?
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
I very much doubt it, Meloni has repeatedly ruled out leaving the EU

www.euractiv.com

Meloni: 'My party does not have an anti-European wing'

www.euractiv.com www.euractiv.com
Click to expand...
ElBurroSinNombre said:
I very much doubt it, Meloni has repeatedly ruled out leaving the EU

Click to expand...
ElBurroSinNombre said:
I very much doubt it, Meloni has repeatedly ruled out leaving the EU

www.euractiv.com

Meloni: 'My party does not have an anti-European wing'

www.euractiv.com www.euractiv.com
ElBurroSinNombre said:
I very much doubt it, Meloni has repeatedly ruled out leaving the EU

www.euractiv.com

Meloni: 'My party does not have an anti-European wing'

www.euractiv.com www.euractiv.com
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Lost Seasider said:
Okay, but here's a question for you: two countries, which would you rather live in:
  • country A, GDP 700;
  • country B, GDP 12,000?
Click to expand...
What's the GDP per capita? What are their social programmes like? Housing? Weather? Food? Culture? I have no idea how/why you expect me to answer that and what it has to do with you saying you don't care about a shrinking economy but do care about a tiny budget increase for education programmes.
 
foggy said:
5 stars out of 5 on Amazon, nearly 250 reviews. You liked it too before you decided you didn't like me. Nice try though cocker.
Click to expand...
Your persona has certainly changed a bit since the book was released though, mate
 
foggy said:
What's the GDP per capita? What are their social programmes like? Housing? Weather? Food? Culture? I have no idea how/why you expect me to answer that and what it has to do with you saying you don't care about a shrinking economy but do care about a tiny budget increase for education programmes.
Click to expand...

Is the right answer.

The point is that your post concentrated solely on aggregate GPD, whereas mine focused on GDP per capita, and while I'm prepared to accept a shrinking (or more likely slower growing) economy if GPD per capita can be maintained (or grown at a better rate) your focus is solely on the headline figure, and your failure to realize that point and try to weaponize my comment betrays your lack of true understanding.
 
Lost Seasider said:
Is the right answer.

The point is that your post concentrated solely on aggregate GPD, whereas mine focused on GDP per capita, and while I'm prepared to accept a shrinking (or more likely slower growing) economy if GPD per capita can be maintained (or grown at a better rate) your focus is solely on the headline figure, and your failure to realize that point and try to weaponize my comment betrays your lack of true understanding.
Click to expand...
You are basing this on the faulty premise that the GDP per capita would shrink perfectly proportional to declining birth rates, as if the two are in complete synchronization. Declining birth rates, obviously, go hand in hand with an ageing population. More people taking pensions and providing no new productivity.
 
OneStepBeyond said:
77 posts and not one poster has explained why that party in Italy are fascists or right wing for that matter 🤔
Click to expand...
Because they aren't their slightly to the right of centre it's absolutely ** bobins as the EU leader got massively caught out trying to give them hell when asked about Russia when already the new Italian leader has put all their support behind Ukraine.

Agenda driven nonsense.
 
foggy said:
You are basing this on the faulty premise that the GDP per capita would shrink perfectly proportional to declining birth rates, as if the two are in complete synchronization. Declining birth rates, obviously, go hand in hand with an ageing population. More people taking pensions and providing no new productivity.
Click to expand...

Your thinking is too short term.
 
Lost Seasider said:
Your thinking is too short term.
Click to expand...
How is it short termism to be talking about the decades long effect of a slowly but surely ageing population? Do you have any literature to support your view that GDP per capita and birth rates are perfectly proportionally linked?
 
foggy said:
How is it short termism to be talking about the decades long effect of a slowly but surely ageing population? Do you have any literature to support your view that GDP per capita and birth rates are perfectly proportionally linked?
Click to expand...

Sorry, I'd love to answer that, but I've just worked out what @Philbfctrois post was about and yeah....................
 
What a lovely Muslim man who saved the Hindu guy being attacked by a Muslim mob. It’s not an exaggeration to say he saved his life. The story is on Sky News. We need more of that and much less of the intolerant angry mob mentality.
 
Keep the faith said:
Because Italy like France is going down the pan because of masses of illegal immigrants , the crime committed by these folk is through the roof 🙁 we ain’t far behind, look no further than London, hopefully we get a party here that stands up for the working class man and woman and what we truly believe 👍🏻
Click to expand...
What? Bigotry and Racism?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top