Fourth Test match thread

We didn't look too threatening there. Again too many inaccurate balls. They took five of ours LBW which says a lot.
 
Mark_GT said:
We didn't look too threatening there. Again too many inaccurate balls. They took five of ours LBW which says a lot.
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Mark, that tells me they are guessing where the ball is pitching and using their pads to protect the wicket, this is the biggest issue, the Indian batsmen seem to read the spin or non spin, out lot don't have a clue so drop their bat and pads down and hope for the best, hence the high number of LBW dismissals.
 
Raging_Bull said:
Mark, that tells me they are guessing where the ball is pitching and using their pads to protect the wicket, this is the biggest issue, the Indian batsmen seem to read the spin or non spin, out lot don't have a clue so drop their bat and pads down and hope for the best, hence the high number of LBW dismissals.
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A lot of that comes from understanding the conditions. Which is perfectly normal. The Indian batsman often come to England and are all over the place against a seaming/swinging ball. I mean that's not to take away the fact that Sibley looks like he hasn't got a clue how to even bat, let alone bat against spin.
 
This LBW problem has been an issue throughout the series, they play for the turn which often isn`t there and their spinners are more accurate and bowl less loose balls so much more persistent in the pressure they exert. Ours bowl too many run scoring balls so far less pressure on the batsmen and as has just been explained by Simon Hughes with the review system it means you can`t use your pads to defend any more like used to be the case.
 
1950`spoolfan said:
This LBW problem has been an issue throughout the series. they play for the turn which often isn`t there and their spinners are more accurate and bowl less loose balls so much more persistent in the pressure they exert. OURS bowl too many run scoring balls so far less pressure on the batsmen and as has just been explained with the review system means you can`t use your pads to defend any more like used to be the case.
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They seem to be coming forward to smother the ball while ours go back and are pinned in front of the stumps.
 
Wizaard said:
They seem to be coming forward to smother the ball while ours go back and are pinned in front of the stumps.
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If you go back, it's because you really aren't sure what it's going to do. Ultimately you're never going to survive for long with that approach. All that said, Root is a quality player of spin and he's struggled other that in the first Test. We should also recognise that Ashin in particular is a world class bowler in these conditions. Highly skilled and his height means he gets bounce too. Not easy to play.
 
Ashwin is of course a top class spinner but with all our main batsmen apart from Stokes being right handers the ball turning away from the right handers from the left hand spinner Axir, who though inexperienced has bowled very well, has actually been even more effective.
 
I like the pace Ashwin sometimes bowls. Takes me back to the days of Deadly Derek!
The principle of disciplined line and length comes through all the time though. Look a Jimmy v/s the rest in our bowling today. He's out on his own. If you bowl a couple of pies per over you're never going to pin anyone down.
 
We just don’t play spin very well. We don’t seem to be able to pick a straight ball, granted these guys are quality on their own patch but we just don’t seem to learn. Excellent from Jimmy.
 
Wizaard said:
5 wickets to non turning spin balls. We're seeing trouble that isn't there. Poor batting.
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Exactly Wiz. I read a quote once, I think from the great Wilfred Rhodes, if the batsman thinks it's spinning, it's spinning.

Someone needs to show our main batsmen that if it isn't, it tends to go straight on.
 
straightatthewall said:
If you go back, it's because you really aren't sure what it's going to do. Ultimately you're never going to survive for long with that approach. All that said, Root is a quality player of spin and he's struggled other that in the first Test. We should also recognise that Ashin in particular is a world class bowler in these conditions. Highly skilled and his height means he gets bounce too. Not easy to play.
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Going forward means the umpire is less likely to give lbw
 
Wizaard said:
Going forward means the umpire is less likely to give lbw
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But if it`s short enough you go back with enough time to watch it and play it off the pitch, if it`s pitched up you go forward to play it close to where it pitches in attempting to smother any turn. It`s the good balls in between those lengths that present the biggest problem .These days with third umpires and referrals you are almost as likely to be out LBW on front foot as back foot.

If the same spun delivery sometimes turns but sometimes doesn`t and the bowlers are very accurate then life becomes very difficult for batsmen.Unfortunately Indian spin bowlers are more accurate than ours and with more flight and pace variation plus their batsmen have much more experience of batting on turning pitches.

So basically we`re f.ck.d
 
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1950`spoolfan said:
But if it`s short enough you go back with enough time to watch it and play it off the pitch, if it`s pitched up you go forward to play it close to where it pitches in attempting to smother any turn. It`s the good balls in between those lengths that present the biggest problem .These days with third umpires and referrals you are almost as likely to be out LBW on front foot as back foot.

If the same spun delivery sometimes turns but sometimes doesn`t and the bowlers are very accurate then life becomes very difficult for batsmen.Unfortunately Indian spin bowlers are more accurate than ours and with more flight and pace variation plus their batsmen have much more experience of batting on turning pitches.

So basically we`re f.ck.d
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😬 🤣 🤦‍♂️
 
Well at least we appear to be making a fist of it this time around, we need to have at least parity when we come to bat second, we all know Sibley will last five minutes again, he reminds me of Mowgli in the Jungle Book as the snake (read any Indian spinner) hypnotises him with his spin "Trust in me, trust in me"😴😴😴
 
Poor decision from the umpire there, it looked plum to me. I get it was umpires call but it was hitting by more than half of the ball. Shame, that really would have given us a good chance of getting them out with a small lead.
 
1950`spoolfan said:
But if it`s short enough you go back with enough time to watch it and play it off the pitch, if it`s pitched up you go forward to play it close to where it pitches in attempting to smother any turn. It`s the good balls in between those lengths that present the biggest problem .These days with third umpires and referrals you are almost as likely to be out LBW on front foot as back foot.

If the same spun delivery sometimes turns but sometimes doesn`t and the bowlers are very accurate then life becomes very difficult for batsmen.Unfortunately Indian spin bowlers are more accurate than ours and with more flight and pace variation plus their batsmen have much more experience of batting on turning pitches.

So basically we`re f.ck.d
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I'm surprised that someone as long in the tooth as you and who has been involved in coaching would consider a team to be f.ck.d after
the first day . I would never judge how a game was going until both teams had batted. Even then you just never really know how things
might develop, that is the beauty of Test cricket.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
Bess bowling some pies here letting India off the hook.
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He just lacks the control needed at this level.
Root at the other end is turning the screw but the batsmen know that Bess will give them a free hit in the next over
That's why Ali is / was a good option. Consistent line and length that is difficult to score off
 
You have to admire Ben Stokes here but it seems a strange call from Root. Leach was doing alright.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
He just lacks the control needed at this level.
Root at the other end is turning the screw but the batsmen know that Bess will give them a free hit in the next over
That's why Ali is / was a good option. Consistent line and length that is difficult to score off
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See, I'd characterise Ali as "often a bit loose but with a demon ball up his sleeve"

I wouldn't describe his especially difficult to score off unless he hits one of his spells, even when he does, he'll concede 100 but take 2 stunning wickets...

I think it's really a case of we only have one county where spin is crucial (Somerset) and their No1 is quite good, but there's really not much else in cupboard cos spin really doesn't play much part in the 4 day game in England.

Ali has barely played county cricket for ages.
 
India going about this the right way, they can sense England are knackered and are taking the test away from us. Anything more than 100 run lead and they may not need to bat again.
 
Was just about to say the game is getting away from us then bang what an awful shot by Pant when India were cruising.
Still think we’ll be chasing around a 100 lead here which isn’t good at all.
 
Still feels like along way back from here. Some poor bowling choices by Root today for me.
 
FessParker said:
I'm surprised that someone as long in the tooth as you and who has been involved in coaching would consider a team to be f.ck.d after
the first day . I would never judge how a game was going until both teams had batted. Even then you just never really know how things
might develop, that is the beauty of Test cricket.
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Fair point but my comment was not just aimed at this match after one day but the comparative balance of the overall strength of the two teams in these conditions that has become evident over the series. They have considerably better spinners than us,the fact that Root with a Test bowling average in the mid 40`s, bowls ahead of Bess underlines that, and they also have batsmen more able to deal with the turning ball and though there are often twists and turns over 5 days the dominant team in this series is now very clear.

Obviously if I was a team coach I would not say that to my team, England won`t give up till the game is over and hope springs eternal but sadly against this team in these conditions the high probability and honest overall assessment must be that we`re f.ck.d.
 
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1950`spoolfan said:
Fair point but my comment was not just aimed at this match after one day but the comparative balance of strength between the two teams that has become evident over the series. They have considerably better spinners than us,the fact that Root bowls ahead of Bess underlines that, and they also have batsmen more able to deal with the turning ball and though there are twists and turns over 5 days the dominant team in this series is now very clear.

Obviously if I was a team coach I would not say that, England won`t give up till the game is over and hope springs eternal but sadly against this team in these conditions the high probability and honest assessment must be that we`re f.ck.d. as is now all too clear.
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That's a realistic comment 50's, although it also needs to be tempered with the fact that the key words are 'in these conditions'. I'd be confident of England turning India over in England. No wider point to make on that, other than it gives you a clear view of home advantage in Test cricket.
 
Pant and Sundar have really taken the game away from England here. They'll be behind by about 120/130 and I can't see them scoring what they need. Just be nice to see a fight from the top order.
 
rhey've got away from us and look good for more than a hundred leave. Way too many bad balls from Bess
 
straightatthewall said:
That's a realistic comment 50's, although it also needs to be tempered with the fact that the key words are 'in these conditions'. I'd be confident of England turning India over in England. No wider point to make on that, other than it gives you a clear view of home advantage in Test cricket.
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Home advantage doesn't force you bowl Bess or bat badly.

But you are right Eng will win at home, well should, and you can guarantee the only turn you'll see will be a warm up act.
 
What innings from Pant fabulous love watching him bat but Joe Root over bowled himself he s got to keep his team with him
 
SeasideKurt said:
They've also given up
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Stokes and Jimmy clearly haven't given up.

Founts - not going to disagree there, but that issue is one of player quality. There's too many passengers in the squad and we all know where the weakness lies - top 3 and spin options. Root, middle/lower middle and quicks/seamers are plenty good enough.
 
England have been very disappointing in this last session. Poor choices from Joe Root and some tired and in some cases undisciplined bowling with too many hittable balls. Pant was brilliant but given every encouragement. Sadly they didn't give the impression they thought it was there to be won. Meanwhile Jimmy gets 3 wickets at 13.3
 
Game over, we had to restrict them to 220-240 to have any sort of chance, if India even need to bat again I'll be amazed as we'll be skittled again as the pitch will be spinning like a top when we bat again, an innings defeat is looming I'm afraid. Let's be frank, in these conditions against the top quality spinners India have, we're not anywhere close to being good enough.
 
Yep game over for me as well.

You just get the feeling India are still going to knock another 50-60 runs tomorrow and put the game out of our reach.

Roll on the limited over games. 👍
 
Don't think it's as over as people think. The difference so far has been Pant with his inns. (one man) and there's no reason why Root et al can't produce an inns. equalling Pant's

OK, India's spinners are much more of a threat, but given some luck and more importantly good shot selection it's still far from over.

You need to limit India to 110 lead, tops and then if IF the top 3 can do OK, you may find parity with 2 down. India 4th inns, even with Leach as the main man, won't find it easy.

6:40 start for me in the morning 👍
 
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