George Monbiot

ElBurroSinNombre

ElBurroSinNombre

Well-known member
George Monbiot on Twitter yesterday;

When I ask myself what trajectory this country is on, the most likely answer seems to be Orbán’s Hungary.
How much in this thread sounds familiar?

1. The ruling class, wallowing in corruption, enjoys total impunity. Meanwhile, peaceful protest and other freedoms are criminalised.
2. No political scandal is a sacking offence.
3. A complicit media so distorts the reporting of government action that it becomes almost impossible to distinguish truth from lies.
4. Apparently endless rule is sustained by voter suppression and gerrymandering.
5. Politics proceeds by means of the grand gesture. Billions are spent on major infrastructure, while basic services are allowed to wither and die.
6. Public agencies are repurposed to direct money into the hands of chums.
7. People trying to defend minority rights and liberal values are bated and provoked, as the government seeks new enemies and revels in its illiberalism.
8. Policies that would once have made you gasp are normalised, as the frontier of acceptable outrage is constantly extended.
9. Immigrants are demonised and blamed for problems for which they bear no responsibility, even as their numbers fall.
10. The government inventively discovers endless scapegoats for its own failures.
11. Patriotism and flag-waving are used to advance an agenda that destroys the very fabric of public life and the meaning of the nation state as a shared polity belonging to all its citizens. The worse the state of the nation, the more national greatness is invoked.


Opinions?
 
More people are going hungry in this country but, if Hartlepool is anything to go by, as long as the number of food banks increase, all is well.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
George Monbiot on Twitter yesterday;

When I ask myself what trajectory this country is on, the most likely answer seems to be Orbán’s Hungary.
How much in this thread sounds familiar?

1. The ruling class, wallowing in corruption, enjoys total impunity. Meanwhile, peaceful protest and other freedoms are criminalised.
2. No political scandal is a sacking offence.
3. A complicit media so distorts the reporting of government action that it becomes almost impossible to distinguish truth from lies.
4. Apparently endless rule is sustained by voter suppression and gerrymandering.
5. Politics proceeds by means of the grand gesture. Billions are spent on major infrastructure, while basic services are allowed to wither and die.
6. Public agencies are repurposed to direct money into the hands of chums.
7. People trying to defend minority rights and liberal values are bated and provoked, as the government seeks new enemies and revels in its illiberalism.
8. Policies that would once have made you gasp are normalised, as the frontier of acceptable outrage is constantly extended.
9. Immigrants are demonised and blamed for problems for which they bear no responsibility, even as their numbers fall.
10. The government inventively discovers endless scapegoats for its own failures.
11. Patriotism and flag-waving are used to advance an agenda that destroys the very fabric of public life and the meaning of the nation state as a shared polity belonging to all its citizens. The worse the state of the nation, the more national greatness is invoked.


Opinions?
Click to expand...

It sounds very much like SNP Scotland.
 
20togo said:
If you want to deliberately paint a bad picture then you can. Others tend to look more for the positives although that of course won't suit the o/p's view.
Click to expand...
Feel free to post up 10 positives.

1. Vaccination programme..
 
I don't necessarily agree with everything on the list and it wasn't written by me. I thought it was an interesting take on things and so I put it up there to stimulate discussion. I am not interested in personalised mud slinging and if you want to contribute please demonstrate why the things that Monbiot has said are either correct / incorrect / partially correct / propaganda / stupidity / brilliant etc.
 
Wizaard said:
Feel free to post up 10 positives.

1. Vaccination programme..
Click to expand...
2. HE'S NOT A COMMIE LEFTIE TRAITOR COUNTRY HATING UNION JACK BURNING STALIN LIKE CORBYN AND ANYONE WHO CRITICISES THE GOVERNMENT IF YOU HAVE ANYTHING NEGATIVE TO SAY WHY NOT GO AND LIVE IN CUBA WHERE THEY'LL LOVE YOU COZ YOU ARE COMMIE LEFTIE WOKIST...

(presumably you're replying to 20s?)
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
2. HE'S NOT A COMMIE LEFTIE TRAITOR COUNTRY HATING UNION JACK BURNING STALIN LIKE CORBYN AND ANYONE WHO CRITICISES THE GOVERNMENT IF YOU HAVE ANYTHING NEGATIVE TO SAY WHY NOT GO AND LIVE IN CUBA WHERE THEY'LL LOVE YOU COZ YOU ARE COMMIE LEFTIE WOKIST...

(presumably you're replying to 20s?)
Click to expand...
🤣🤣🤣
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
But yet we have x10 more obese people in this country than we did just 20 years ago.
So someone is doing all the scoffing. 🤔
Click to expand...
It might be all the old school playing fields and green belt spaces being sold off for housing with “relaxed” planning rules. A lack of funding in public amenities such as swimming pools, after school clubs stopping, summer school activities disappearing as well as the usual suspects like an increase in fast food outlets rather than church hall ping pong sessions!

I say this as an obese person by the way, I’m aware of my downfall and reasons for it!
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
2. HE'S NOT A COMMIE LEFTIE TRAITOR COUNTRY HATING UNION JACK BURNING STALIN LIKE CORBYN AND ANYONE WHO CRITICISES THE GOVERNMENT IF YOU HAVE ANYTHING NEGATIVE TO SAY WHY NOT GO AND LIVE IN CUBA WHERE THEY'LL LOVE YOU COZ YOU ARE COMMIE LEFTIE WOKIST...

(presumably you're replying to 20s?)
Click to expand...
You started early again dopehead?
 
BigHandsOliverKahn said:
More people are going hungry in this country but, if Hartlepool is anything to go by, as long as the number of food banks increase, all is well.
Click to expand...
I live in Hartlepool; I manage a charity which is bracketed as a food bank and this is wrong.

There is one food bank; affiliated to the Trussell Trust. They take rereferrals from Social Services and so on.

There are 8 other places (including where I work) which essentially intercept food which is destined for land fill and share it with anybody who wants it; no checks, no questions asked. The food we intercept comes from Tesco (3 times per week); we have just been approached by Nando's to do the same.

Other's pick up from M&S, Asda, Greggs and Sainsbury's and others.

Food distributers like those supermarkets above are now measured by how much food gets thrown away; it never used to be like that - they have found it cheaper and better for their CSR to be seen giving it places who can get it to people who want it.

At the national level, FareShare UK do something similar at an industrial level; so short dated stock, stock changing packaging gets redistributed. Interestingly, we got a donation of 50,000 pies for the town from the airline industry as so few people were flying; there was so much in the system I connected them with colleagues in Wigan - because they could use them I had could have a little joke with my colleague!

If anything it shows there is an over production of food.

There are times when there is a short term issue. During the pandemic hours were cut and people who had been ok, needed a little help; people lose jobs and need time to readjust, JCP make a mess of somebody's benefits and so on; generally though there's enough help out there for people without resorting to food banks.

Actually, if you ask the Food Bank, they restrict it to short term intervention so that it doesn't create a dependency and it doesn't displace expenditure to be spent on other stuff like drugs and alcohol.

So, it's not so much about feeding the starving, much more about ensuring good food doesn't go to waste.

I've attached photographs to give you an idea of the scale of this at Christmas.DSC_0658.JPGDSC_0685-min.JPG
 
TSSeasider said:
I live in Hartlepool; I manage a charity which is bracketed as a food bank and this is wrong.

There is one food bank; affiliated to the Trussell Trust. They take rereferrals from Social Services and so on.

There are 8 other places (including where I work) which essentially intercept food which is destined for land fill and share it with anybody who wants it; no checks, no questions asked. The food we intercept comes from Tesco (3 times per week); we have just been approached by Nando's to do the same.

Other's pick up from M&S, Asda, Greggs and Sainsbury's and others.

Food distributers like those supermarkets above are now measured by how much food gets thrown away; it never used to be like that - they have found it cheaper and better for their CSR to be seen giving it places who can get it to people who want it.

At the national level, FareShare UK do something similar at an industrial level; so short dated stock, stock changing packaging gets redistributed. Interestingly, we got a donation of 50,000 pies for the town from the airline industry as so few people were flying; there was so much in the system I connected them with colleagues in Wigan - because they could use them I had could have a little joke with my colleague!

If anything it shows there is an over production of food.

There are times when there is a short term issue. During the pandemic hours were cut and people who had been ok, needed a little help; people lose jobs and need time to readjust, JCP make a mess of somebody's benefits and so on; generally though there's enough help out there for people without resorting to food banks.

Actually, if you ask the Food Bank, they restrict it to short term intervention so that it doesn't create a dependency and it doesn't displace expenditure to be spent on other stuff like drugs and alcohol.

So, it's not so much about feeding the starving, much more about ensuring good food doesn't go to waste.

I've attached photographs to give you an idea of the scale of this at Christmas.View attachment 6046View attachment 6047
Click to expand...
Excellent stuff.

Although don't offer Nandos, people have suffered enough.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
I don't necessarily agree with everything on the list and it wasn't written by me. I thought it was an interesting take on things and so I put it up there to stimulate discussion. I am not interested in personalised mud slinging and if you want to contribute please demonstrate why the things that Monbiot has said are either correct / incorrect / partially correct / propaganda / stupidity / brilliant etc.
Click to expand...
seems to me, there's a bit of mudslinging from you. But to answer your point, each statement made will only be answered by an opinion. So it really isn't a case of being correct/incorrect and everything else you list. So like I said to Wiz, what's the point? Different peoples opinions are all the answers you are going to get. In other words you just want to go over old ground again and again.
 
TSSeasider said:
I live in Hartlepool; I manage a charity which is bracketed as a food bank and this is wrong.

There is one food bank; affiliated to the Trussell Trust. They take rereferrals from Social Services and so on.

There are 8 other places (including where I work) which essentially intercept food which is destined for land fill and share it with anybody who wants it; no checks, no questions asked. The food we intercept comes from Tesco (3 times per week); we have just been approached by Nando's to do the same.

Other's pick up from M&S, Asda, Greggs and Sainsbury's and others.

Food distributers like those supermarkets above are now measured by how much food gets thrown away; it never used to be like that - they have found it cheaper and better for their CSR to be seen giving it places who can get it to people who want it.

At the national level, FareShare UK do something similar at an industrial level; so short dated stock, stock changing packaging gets redistributed. Interestingly, we got a donation of 50,000 pies for the town from the airline industry as so few people were flying; there was so much in the system I connected them with colleagues in Wigan - because they could use them I had could have a little joke with my colleague!

If anything it shows there is an over production of food.

There are times when there is a short term issue. During the pandemic hours were cut and people who had been ok, needed a little help; people lose jobs and need time to readjust, JCP make a mess of somebody's benefits and so on; generally though there's enough help out there for people without resorting to food banks.

Actually, if you ask the Food Bank, they restrict it to short term intervention so that it doesn't create a dependency and it doesn't displace expenditure to be spent on other stuff like drugs and alcohol.

So, it's not so much about feeding the starving, much more about ensuring good food doesn't go to waste.

I've attached photographs to give you an idea of the scale of this at Christmas.View attachment 6046View attachment 6047
Click to expand...
Tesco is giving free food to its staff as well. Not sure what to make of that. I suppose it's a way to keep their wages low.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
George Monbiot on Twitter yesterday;

When I ask myself what trajectory this country is on, the most likely answer seems to be Orbán’s Hungary.
How much in this thread sounds familiar?

1. The ruling class, wallowing in corruption, enjoys total impunity. Meanwhile, peaceful protest and other freedoms are criminalised.
2. No political scandal is a sacking offence.
3. A complicit media so distorts the reporting of government action that it becomes almost impossible to distinguish truth from lies.
4. Apparently endless rule is sustained by voter suppression and gerrymandering.
5. Politics proceeds by means of the grand gesture. Billions are spent on major infrastructure, while basic services are allowed to wither and die.
6. Public agencies are repurposed to direct money into the hands of chums.
7. People trying to defend minority rights and liberal values are bated and provoked, as the government seeks new enemies and revels in its illiberalism.
8. Policies that would once have made you gasp are normalised, as the frontier of acceptable outrage is constantly extended.
9. Immigrants are demonised and blamed for problems for which they bear no responsibility, even as their numbers fall.
10. The government inventively discovers endless scapegoats for its own failures.
11. Patriotism and flag-waving are used to advance an agenda that destroys the very fabric of public life and the meaning of the nation state as a shared polity belonging to all its citizens. The worse the state of the nation, the more national greatness is invoked.


Opinions?
Click to expand...
I'm a fan of Monbiot. On this occasion I thought he might be stretching a point. However, his supporting evidence makes perfect sense. Alas, at the moment the world is stuck dangerously in a phase of Introverted nationalism. The Americans have seen the light by offloading Trump. Unfortunately, I think we still have some way to go down this track
 
Bottle said:
It might be all the old school playing fields and green belt spaces being sold off for housing with “relaxed” planning rules. A lack of funding in public amenities such as swimming pools, after school clubs stopping, summer school activities disappearing as well as the usual suspects like an increase in fast food outlets rather than church hall ping pong sessions!

I say this as an obese person by the way, I’m aware of my downfall and reasons for it!
Click to expand...
Oh give over, we just eat too much, it’s all down to that American import the fast food takeaway. Of course there are genuinely people who struggle to afford food, but many choose to spend it on fags, booze and drugs
 
Matesrates said:
Oh give over, we just eat too much, it’s all down to that American import the fast food takeaway. Of course there are genuinely people who struggle to afford food, but many choose to spend it on fags, booze and drugs
Click to expand...
Thank you, the Daily Mail.

Blame the poor for their condition. Classic Tory tactic.
 
Matesrates said:
Oh give over, we just eat too much, it’s all down to that American import the fast food takeaway. Of course there are genuinely people who struggle to afford food, but many choose to spend it on fags, booze and drugs
Click to expand...
This morning we had about 40 people come and take a share of the food we put out.

There were 3 who would fall into the category of either using the food so the can spend what they have on drugs, or who have spent so much on drugs they can't afford food.

One who has a definite gambling problem.

Not saying there aren't more across the Hartlepool, but that's what we had.

Mostly, it was people taking advantage of getting something extra for nowt.
 
gjr69 said:
What's poor? To some people I'm poor, to others I'm wealthy, very hard to define these days.
Click to expand...
That’s a fair point, which underlines the difficulty for those trying to help, to determine whether they are indeed in need of by, or just trying to get something for nothing.
 
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