Have we gone too soon ?

TwelveAngryMen

Well-known member
And this is before Freedom Day

Personally I think the self-isolation rules should have been relaxed first - as it stands employers are getting rinced again

Official figures show the UK has recorded more than 50,000 Covid-19 cases in the past 24 hours, as company bosses say the delivery of supplies is being hit because of the number of workers self-isolating.

Government data posted online says there have been 49 further deaths in the period with 51,870 cases recorded. The highest ever reached was 68,053 on January 8.

One in every 95 people in England has coronavirus, according to the Office for National Statistics. It said the figure reflected data for the week to July 10, adding that in Wales one person in 360 was infected. In Scotland one person in 90 has the virus and in Northern Ireland it is one in every 290.



Hospital admissions increased 61 per cent last week to 4.43 for every 100,000 people.


Caroline Green, chief financial officer of Pallet Track, a network of transport companies, warned that goods would not be moved around the country on time because of the drivers affected by Covid-19.

She told BBC Radio 4’s World at One: “I’ve taken a straw poll across my 87 haulage members, and we’ve got over half of them are currently impacted by staff off through Covid or track and trace. The majority of these staff are actually drivers and that means goods won’t move around or they move around late.
“Of all the employees that are currently not working over 70 per cent are not ill with Covid — they are off because of track and trace. We typically deliver goods next day, or on a two or three-day economy service across the UK, and now we’re seeing delays of days that are being added on to that.”
The last time the level of cases in England was so high was in early February, after a peak at the start of the year when 1 person in 50 was infected. The overall figures masked large disparities, with 1 in 40 in the northeast testing positive.
Cases were still being driven largely by younger and unvaccinated age groups, particularly secondary age schoolchildren. Among the over 50s, 1 in 200 were found to be infected, while in the over 70s it was 1 in 500.

One of the largest hospitals in the country cancelled all planned operations for two days as a rise in Covid-19 infections puts a strain on the NHS.
Dozens of elective operations due to take place today and yesterday, including liver transplants, were cancelled at the Queen Elizabeth Hospital in Birmingham.
The hospital blamed a rise in Covid admissions leading to a lack of beds and space on its intensive care unit, which is one of the largest in Europe.
In Sunderland hospital staff are being asked to postpone holidays because of “extreme pressure” due to a surge in coronavirus cases.
Staff at South Tyneside and Sunderland NHS Foundation Trust, which is dealing with one of the highest infection rates in the country, are seeing hospital cases doubling by the week.

In an internal note to staff earlier this week, bosses said there were 80 Covid-19 patients receiving hospital treatment compared with two exactly a month before.
The NHS is grappling with pressures caused by rising infections. Last night NHS chiefs warned that mass isolation of staff was harming patient care after half a million people in England were told to quarantine by the contact-tracing app.
It is understood that there are 1,091 staff absent from work at Queen Elizabeth, of which a quarter, 275, have been instructed to isolate or are sick with Covid-19.
The hospital’s intensive care unit was full on Thursday and ten patients were on a watch list who may need critical care.
This meant there was no space in the ICU for post-surgery care for patients scheduled for planned operations and transplants.
Hospitals across the country are facing a surge in demand with a combination of increasing coronavirus patients and other types of emergency care. NHS hospitals and ambulance services are experiencing record pressures and June was the busiest month ever for major hospital A&E departments across England.
One hospital worker at Queen Elizabeth told The Independent that Covid wards were filling up and patients were having to be transferred to maintain capacity. They added: “This is going south very quickly.”

This morning Professor Chris Whitty, the chief medical officer for England, warned that the public were “not out of the woods yet” as the nation looked forward to an end of lockdown on Monday.

He said that the number of people in hospital with coronavirus could reach “quite scary” levels within weeks.
The latest figures showed 48,553 more cases, the highest since January 15, and 63 deaths, the biggest daily reported increase since March 26.
Whitty said: “I don’t think we should underestimate the fact that we could get into trouble again surprisingly fast.”

Infections are returning to January levels, with ministers considering exempting frontline NHS staff from isolation requirements to take the strain off the NHS.
The president of the CBI warned that the Covid-19 tracing app was“devastating” the economy after more than half a million people were forced into self-isolation.
Lord Bilimoria of Chelsea urged ministers to abandon the app in favour of a test and release approach, telling Times Radio that the government had “got to listen” to warnings from businesses over shortages in staff.
A minister suggested today that people could take tests in order to avoid self-isolation before August 16, when quarantine rules are lifted for those who have received both doses of the vaccine.
 
If we have gone too soon then when would the right time have been to let us out ? It’s not going away and if the vaccines work then what’s the problem. I have a problem with the deaths and hospitalisations, the data isn’t sufficient and the number of tests is the most in Europe. Is it maybe time to stop publishing the data daily.
 
To be fair even though I posed the question I don't think we should but as it stands employers are being hung out to dry

We've had to batten down before ' Freedom Day 'as we can't afford an outbreak
 
If we have gone too soon then when would the right time have been to let us out ? It’s not going away and if the vaccines work then what’s the problem. I have a problem with the deaths and hospitalisations, the data isn’t sufficient and the number of tests is the most in Europe. Is it maybe time to stop publishing the data daily.
My problem is the self-isolation rules that are crucifying employers and which continue whilst the Govt go for herd immunity by stealth
 
I think the Government has accepted that all that can be done has been done, it isn't viable to tank the economy any further, so we're on our own. Hopefully the populous will act sensibly. 😂 😂 😂

They have cocked up on self isolation, the rules need to be changed from Monday, but of course the software needs to be amended and we all know how quickly computer programmers work.
 
I think the Government has accepted that all that can be done has been done, it isn't viable to tank the economy any further, so we're on our own. Hopefully the populous will act sensibly. 😂 😂 😂

They have cocked up on self isolation, the rules need to be changed from Monday, but of course the software needs to be amended and we all know how quickly computer programmers work.
But the op suggests the government are still tanking the economy. Because of the self isolation rules.

Do they want us to go for a free for all?

Do they want us to be cautious?

Why are people still being pinged?

#Confused.com
 
The Self Isolation rules are unworkable and should have been changed. We're essentially still working with a set of rules that were developed at a time when widespread testing didn't exist.
 
But the op suggests the government are still tanking the economy. Because of the self isolation rules.

Do they want us to go for a free for all?

Do they want us to be cautious?

Why are people still being pinged?

#Confused.com
The op suggests the self isolation rules are hurting the economy, which I agreed with, the lockdown tanked the economy.
 
This is a stealth lockdown - no actual proof or detailed information as to where the (so called) possible infection occured (now there's a suprise).
This great reset is getting stronger and stronger, food shortages are going to be a big big part of it and this is going to start very soon and very very quickly.
We are heading toward total control through fear and we've allowed this to happen with eyes wide open.
 
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How can you go in a pub and mix with all and sundry and yet have to self-isolate for 10 days if you come anywhere near someone who's got the virus

It's madness
Because you got pinged.

Computer sez.

It’s either 1) an indecipherable conspiracy of unimaginable complexity designed to entrap the world population into a devious control system. Or 2) a complete clusterfuck by a bunch of inept clowns.

1) is not possible so I’m going with 2).
 
I’ve deleted the app. It’s now pathetic over half a million pinged in a single week. That could be as many as 1 million people( couples) not able to go to work or kids to school
We’re just gunna have to live with this and treat it like a flu virus recover and get on with life
Keep it to yourself but so have Mrs Insider and me, this very evening.
 
My problem is the self-isolation rules that are crucifying employers and which continue whilst the Govt go for herd immunity by stealth
Well done TAM. I thought your opening post (long read but important) was very worthwhile. Then you quickly drop in two posts to say, despite all that, it's the employers we should be thinking about!
Of course employers are at their wits end. So are customers, so are patients, so are teachers, school-children, football fans, pensioners.
Look, it's everyone who's affected and everyone who's going to suffer if this quickly goes pear-shaped.
For me, it's Johnson's internal Party squabbles that are leading the policy on July 19th. I couldn't give a fig about their internal squabbles but if it is clear that we need a more cautious approach around dates, track and trace technology, a slower releasing of Covid social limitations, then I'm all for it.
 
As I'm somebody who is not in the UK can someone explain to me what on earth is going so wrong, what is causing the explosion of cases?

This time last year without the vaccine cases were as good as nothing, we were told that was seasonal variation. But now with the vaccine the cases climb is near vertical.

Other similar countries with very few measures in place and similar vaccinations levels (I'm in Germany) are not seeing the case count anything like the UK. So what is behind it?

I say this as someone who has not been able to visit family in the UK for 9 months and I'm getting the awful feeling I might end up waiting till next spring at this rate. which is too awful to contemplate.
 
I’ve deleted the app. It’s now pathetic over half a million pinged in a single week. That could be as many as 1 million people( couples) not able to go to work or kids to school
We’re just gunna have to live with this and treat it like a flu virus recover and get on with life
"That could be as many as 1 million people (couples) not able to go to work or kids to school"....or holidaymakers using hotels...it could be...inconvenient.
 
And this is before Freedom Day

Personally I think the self-isolation rules should have been relaxed first - as it stands employers are getting rinced again

Official figures show the UK has recorded more than 50,000 Covid-19 cases in the past 24 hours, as company bosses say the delivery of supplies is being hit because of the number of workers self-isolating.

Government data posted online says there have been 49 further deaths in the period with 51,870 cases recorded. The highest ever reached was 68,053 on January 8.

One in every 95 people in England has coronavirus, according to the Office for National Statistics. It said the figure reflected data for the week to July 10, adding that in Wales one person in 360 was infected. In Scotland one person in 90 has the virus and in Northern Ireland it is one in every 290.



Hospital admissions increased 61 per cent last week to 4.43 for every 100,000 people.


Caroline Green, chief financial officer of Pallet Track, a network of transport companies, warned that goods would not be moved around the country on time because of the drivers affected by Covid-19.

She told BBC Radio 4’s World at One: “I’ve taken a straw poll across my 87 haulage members, and we’ve got over half of them are currently impacted by staff off through Covid or track and trace. The majority of these staff are actually drivers and that means goods won’t move around or they move around late.
“Of all the employees that are currently not working over 70 per cent are not ill with Covid — they are off because of track and trace. We typically deliver goods next day, or on a two or three-day economy service across the UK, and now we’re seeing delays of days that are being added on to that.”
The last time the level of cases in England was so high was in early February, after a peak at the start of the year when 1 person in 50 was infected. The overall figures masked large disparities, with 1 in 40 in the northeast testing positive.
Cases were still being driven largely by younger and unvaccinated age groups, particularly secondary age schoolchildren. Among the over 50s, 1 in 200 were found to be infected, while in the over 70s it was 1 in 500.

One of the largest hospitals in the country cancelled all planned operations for two days as a rise in Covid-19 infections puts a strain on the NHS.
Dozens of elective operations due to take place today and yesterday, including liver transplants, were cancelled at the Queen Elizabeth Hospital in Birmingham.
The hospital blamed a rise in Covid admissions leading to a lack of beds and space on its intensive care unit, which is one of the largest in Europe.
In Sunderland hospital staff are being asked to postpone holidays because of “extreme pressure” due to a surge in coronavirus cases.
Staff at South Tyneside and Sunderland NHS Foundation Trust, which is dealing with one of the highest infection rates in the country, are seeing hospital cases doubling by the week.

In an internal note to staff earlier this week, bosses said there were 80 Covid-19 patients receiving hospital treatment compared with two exactly a month before.
The NHS is grappling with pressures caused by rising infections. Last night NHS chiefs warned that mass isolation of staff was harming patient care after half a million people in England were told to quarantine by the contact-tracing app.
It is understood that there are 1,091 staff absent from work at Queen Elizabeth, of which a quarter, 275, have been instructed to isolate or are sick with Covid-19.
The hospital’s intensive care unit was full on Thursday and ten patients were on a watch list who may need critical care.
This meant there was no space in the ICU for post-surgery care for patients scheduled for planned operations and transplants.
Hospitals across the country are facing a surge in demand with a combination of increasing coronavirus patients and other types of emergency care. NHS hospitals and ambulance services are experiencing record pressures and June was the busiest month ever for major hospital A&E departments across England.
One hospital worker at Queen Elizabeth told The Independent that Covid wards were filling up and patients were having to be transferred to maintain capacity. They added: “This is going south very quickly.”

This morning Professor Chris Whitty, the chief medical officer for England, warned that the public were “not out of the woods yet” as the nation looked forward to an end of lockdown on Monday.

He said that the number of people in hospital with coronavirus could reach “quite scary” levels within weeks.
The latest figures showed 48,553 more cases, the highest since January 15, and 63 deaths, the biggest daily reported increase since March 26.
Whitty said: “I don’t think we should underestimate the fact that we could get into trouble again surprisingly fast.”

Infections are returning to January levels, with ministers considering exempting frontline NHS staff from isolation requirements to take the strain off the NHS.
The president of the CBI warned that the Covid-19 tracing app was“devastating” the economy after more than half a million people were forced into self-isolation.
Lord Bilimoria of Chelsea urged ministers to abandon the app in favour of a test and release approach, telling Times Radio that the government had “got to listen” to warnings from businesses over shortages in staff.
A minister suggested today that people could take tests in order to avoid self-isolation before August 16, when quarantine rules are lifted for those who have received both doses of the vaccine.
Stick to football
 
I’ve deleted the app. It’s now pathetic over half a million pinged in a single week. That could be as many as 1 million people( couples) not able to go to work or kids to school
We’re just gunna have to live with this and treat it like a flu virus recover and get on with life

Keep it to yourself but so have Mrs Insider and me, this very evening.
How selfish of you.
 
Unfortunately a tool that was meant to get us out of this and save lives is causing complete and utter mayhem and isn’t fit for purpose.

School kids, Workforce’s, NHS Staff etc. having to isolate whilst fit and healthy really is now 18 months in, complete and utter lunacy.
That tool is Boris Johnson
 
For clarity the test and trace app is, according to it's blurb, not in any way traceable to the details of the individual concerned. It's just a way to confirm you have been within a certain distance of a person who has tested positive.

It's also blitzed its massive budget. Good old Dido.
 
A good AVFTT thread with everybody making good points, describing their experiences and offering their opinions.

We are never all going to agree on everything on here - some might say anything !!!!!! - but all I'd say is perhaps some are being a little too hard with their claims of self preservation against the business people/employers who have contributed on the thread.

I thinks it's only natural for them to complain if they have experienced problems or potential problems first hand, it's important for the country and us all for businesses to be operating as effectively as possible and as soon as possible.

Yes, they need to operate as safely as possible but there needs to be a balance.
 
As I'm somebody who is not in the UK can someone explain to me what on earth is going so wrong, what is causing the explosion of cases?

This time last year without the vaccine cases were as good as nothing, we were told that was seasonal variation. But now with the vaccine the cases climb is near vertical.

Other similar countries with very few measures in place and similar vaccinations levels (I'm in Germany) are not seeing the case count anything like the UK. So what is behind it?

I say this as someone who has not been able to visit family in the UK for 9 months and I'm getting the awful feeling I might end up waiting till next spring at this rate. which is too awful to contemplate.
Because many people don’t adhere to the restrictions, social distancing was adhered to in the first wave, but since then it’s gone. Go into any supermarket, walk down any busy street and you won’t find social distancing. Masks are worn incorrectly by many, used as chip straps, fulled down to talk, reused multiple times, even shared. As for hand washing, well.
 
Hopefully hospitalisations and deaths will remain low even though cases are rising rapidly. If not I fear freedom will be have to be removed.

I have to say, I’m going to keep wearing my mask whilst working with the public, and in shops etc. I’m also going to keep my distance where I can, avoid public transport and sanitise. Indeed the company I work for have told us their policy is not changing, we have to wear masks, keep our distance, and encourage customers to do the same. I can see trouble ahead.

Many I talk to are doing the same while this new wave is raging.
 
The government should encourage the use of the free Lateral Flow Tests instead of relying on the App with people having to isolate for unnecessary reasons. I turned the App off 2 months ago but take a LFT every 3/4 days and although probably 50/60 % accurate it’s far better than being pinged.
 
I've deleted the App why because it doesn't work as I only used it to check into venue's as I work outside.
The Scotland game me and my best friend checked into the Pub then we both got pinged at exactly the same time to the second and told to isolate for 6 days.

The only problem that it was 7 days after we'd met that the notification came through not seen each other in that time or been anywhere to sign in we had basically already done our isolation time!
 
I've deleted the App why because it doesn't work as I only used it to check into venue's as I work outside.
The Scotland game me and my best friend checked into the Pub then we both got pinged at exactly the same time to the second and told to isolate for 6 days.

The only problem that it was 7 days after we'd met that the notification came through not seen each other in that time or been anywhere to sign in we had basically already done our isolation time!
The same thing had happened to loads of people I know too.
 
Hopefully hospitalisations and deaths will remain low even though cases are rising rapidly. If not I fear freedom will be have to be removed.

I have to say, I’m going to keep wearing my mask whilst working with the public, and in shops etc. I’m also going to keep my distance where I can, avoid public transport and sanitise. Indeed the company I work for have told us their policy is not changing, we have to wear masks, keep our distance, and encourage customers to do the same. I can see trouble ahead.

Many I talk to are doing the same while this new wave is raging.
We also will be making all our guests sanitise upon entry at the front door, when making a cuppa etc etc
 
As I'm somebody who is not in the UK can someone explain to me what on earth is going so wrong, what is causing the explosion of cases?

This time last year without the vaccine cases were as good as nothing, we were told that was seasonal variation. But now with the vaccine the cases climb is near vertical.

Other similar countries with very few measures in place and similar vaccinations levels (I'm in Germany) are not seeing the case count anything like the UK. So what is behind it?

I say this as someone who has not been able to visit family in the UK for 9 months and I'm getting the awful feeling I might end up waiting till next spring at this rate. which is too awful to contemplate.
The UK is testing more people than the whole of Europe combined.

Test more people you will find more positive tests.You might say that is a good thing identifying infectious people but this is not the case.Just because you test positive using these highly inaccurate diagnostics doesn’t mean to say you are a case.The majority of these people do not have any symptoms and most do not have enough viral load to be considered infectious at all.

To add to this,the tests used have high false positive rates where there is such a low prevelance of the disease in the population meaning in a large proportion of these positive tests old non infectious fragments of RNA and viral matter from previous viruses sometimes months,years ago.That is how sensitive these tests are when run incorrectly at high cycle thresholds they amplify the sample to a point where it’s impossible to determine what you are looking at is live virus or older dead fragments.
 
I got 'pinged' last week and told to isolate for five days. I am double jabbed, symptom free and took a negative lateral flow test. I accept it isn't impossible for me to have the virus but it is very, very unlikely.
 
The UK is testing more people than the whole of Europe combined.

Test more people you will find more positive tests.You might say that is a good thing identifying infectious people but this is not the case.Just because you test positive using these highly inaccurate diagnostics doesn’t mean to say you are a case.The majority of these people do not have any symptoms and most do not have enough viral load to be considered infectious at all.

To add to this,the tests used have high false positive rates where there is such a low prevelance of the disease in the population meaning in a large proportion of these positive tests old non infectious fragments of RNA and viral matter from previous viruses sometimes months,years ago.That is how sensitive these tests are when run incorrectly at high cycle thresholds they amplify the sample to a point where it’s impossible to determine what you are looking at is live virus or older dead fragments.
The tests are not highly innacurate... In fact quite the opposite is true.... The tests used DO NOT have high false positive rates either.
 
 
This whole ‘Freedom Day’ has depressed the life out of me because many people do not want freedom.

I’m getting that people are scared due to the endless scaremongering and brainwashing of fear, but the logic and thought process of some who insist on keeping some restrictions is crazy.

A classic example is masks. People are actually testing themselves to check if they have the virus with no symptoms. They then test negative but still want to wear a mask under the mantra that they want to “protect others”...
FROM SOMETHING THEY HAVEN’T GOT!?!

If you question this you’re a “denier”... “Covidiot”... or the best one “selfish”.

The Government has granted this freedom day, with a number of caveats granted, but many do not want to be free for something they have been vaccinated against, have antibodies for and an immune system that assists them for a 99% recovery rate.

We’ve got millions isolating, for something they haven’t got?!

I’m a positive person but with this we’re fucked, it is mental.
 
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