Matesrates
Well-known member
Continue to Manchester, or spend on improving connections between northern towns. What’s your view?
Why not both? Infrastructure spending helps growth.Continue to Manchester, or spend on improving connections between northern towns. What’s your view?
It is massively expensive and, for me, the wrong project.we need a cross-England upgrade in the North, to the same standard as cross-rail in London - no hand-me-down rolling stock. Station upgrades, rolling stock and track. It's also needed across Scotland and up through Wales. But no, it's London, London, London.Why not both? Infrastructure spending helps growth.
Why not HS2 and the cross England upgrade? It will still be less than the combined price of Crossrail and the not cancelled Crossrail 2.It is massively expensive and, for me, the wrong project.we need a cross-England upgrade in the North, to the same standard as cross-rail in London - no hand-me-down rolling stock. Station upgrades, rolling stock and track. It's also needed across Scotland and up through Wales. But no, it's London, London, London.
It's massively expensive because half of it is in tunnels to pander to nimbys, you could cut the cost drastically if we weren't such a zombie country that can't build things properly anymore. But Britain is full of transport projects that were apparently too costly but then ended up paying the cost back within a few years. The Elizabeth line was massively delayed and overbudget to the tune of about 24 billion and it's already about to break even by the end of the year, after only being open for 2 years. Invest in transport. It's always worth it. (almost).It is massively expensive and, for me, the wrong project.we need a cross-England upgrade in the North, to the same standard as cross-rail in London - no hand-me-down rolling stock. Station upgrades, rolling stock and track. It's also needed across Scotland and up through Wales. But no, it's London, London, London.
I was trying to point out the lack of credibility in anything this lot turn their hands to. They aren't interested in the North of England, Scotland and Wales. Great Western is a first class railway well served with decent stations and rolling stock. So, to a lesser degree is the East. But, home is where your heart is and for Sunak's mob, it ain't anywhere but the South-East.Why not HS2 and the cross England upgrade? It will still be less than the combined price of Crossrail and the not cancelled Crossrail 2.
Michelle Mone can pay for it.
You're pushing at an open door with me foggy.It's massively expensive because half of it is in tunnels to pander to nimbys, you could cut the cost drastically if we weren't such a zombie country that can't build things properly anymore. But Britain is full of transport projects that were apparently too costly but then ended up paying the cost back within a few years. The Elizabeth line was massively delayed and overbudget to the tune of about 24 billion and it's already about to break even by the end of the year, after only being open for 2 years. Invest in transport. It's always worth it. (almost).
We have more connections than any other country in the world.Continue to Manchester, or spend on improving connections between northern towns. What’s your view?
From everything I've read about HS2 it would have improved the existing network by adding much more capacity. I don't think it's a complete either/or.The HS2 funding should have been spent on updating the existing network. Staff are not travelling as often into London with all the WFH so it will never make a profit.
Totally right. Still, we should be grateful for the South's castoffs?I was trying to point out the lack of credibility in anything this lot turn their hands to. They aren't interested in the North of England, Scotland and Wales. Great Western is a first class railway well served with decent stations and rolling stock. So, to a lesser degree is the East. But, home is where your heart is and for Sunak's mob, it ain't anywhere but the South-East.
Germany?We have more connections than any other country in the world.
That's the problem when trying to compare.
Japan?Germany?
Continue to Manchester, or spend on improving connections between northern towns. What’s your view?
Why not both? Infrastructure spending helps growth.
Except many of the 'new announcements' are things that had already been announced, or in some cases things that actually exist. They've been banging on about building the Leeds tram for 20 years.The original planned cost was £38bn. This has spiralled to almost three times this amount. Sunak says the country cannot afford the revised cost so plans reallocation of the £38bn to providing much needed transport links in the north. If we couldn't afford HS2 then we can't fund both. Which option is better for the north? Surely the new one if it materialises.
It was always better to improve transport across the north and midlands towns rather than do HS2. HS2 never represented good value for money and should have been scrapped ages ago. I am just a bit puzzled as to why there wasn't this amount of outcry when the eastern leg of it was cancelled 2 years ago. I live near Lincoln and HS2 would have had zero impact on us, even if the eastern leg had gone ahead. Far more important to us would be any improvements the east coast line (including electrfying the link from Newark to Lincoln), improving the lines to Nottingham, Sheffield and Leeds and improving the AI.Continue to Manchester, or spend on improving connections between northern towns. What’s your view?
The idea that HS2 would only have served the benefit of trips to London is a falsehood. The west coast mainline is running at near full capacity and these bottlenecks have knock on effects throughout the north (and midlands). HS2 would have relieved a lot of the pressure on WCM and that would have allowed for upgrades elsewhere. Without it I fail to see how we can do those upgrades. And wow we are just adding more commuter trains onto the existing overcrowded lines.It was always better to improve transport across the north and midlands towns rather than do HS2. HS2 never represented good value for money and should have been scrapped ages ago. I am just a bit puzzled as to why there wasn't this amount of outcry when the eastern leg of it was cancelled 2 years ago. I live near Lincoln and HS2 would have had zero impact on us, even if the eastern leg had gone ahead. Far more important to us would be any improvements the east coast line (including electrfying the link from Newark to Lincoln), improving the lines to Nottingham, Sheffield and Leeds and improving the AI.
The fundamental problem has been, that for decades about 75% of the infrastructure investment has been focused on London and the south east and HS2 was also about linking into London rather than really developing the north and the midlands. There heeds to be a change in mindset from that all 'roads' lead to London and that London is the centre of all development, especially when it is overdeveloped anyway.
There is also a fundamental problem with public infrastructure projects in this country (particularly those run at a national level). They regularly and massively overrun the original budgets and are usually delivered far behind original timscales. Some of that is to do with politics and the complexity of planning processes in this country, but it is still mystifying why the costs per mile of rail laid are many times what they are in the likes of France and take far longer to complete. Crossrail and the link to the Channel tunnel are 2 other examples.
This Tory Government has been busy ensuring infrastructure projects happen. The London Elizabeth line has been completed. I'm sure there are other major schemes happening in London right now. I mean, that's all that matters...right?Except many of the 'new announcements' are things that had already been announced, or in some cases things that actually exist. They've been banging on about building the Leeds tram for 20 years.
The problem is, the fact we can't build HS2 is not a problem in isolation, and the fact that costs spiralled is not some independent thing we have no control over. We can't build anything. The Leeds tram was granted approval over 20 years ago and nothing's happened, and apparently now it's an exciting new project. Trams are two and a half more expensive to build in here than France. They've just delayed the decision on whether to turn the A1 into a dual carriage way yet again, a project that was started 15 years ago. We proposed a new road to go under the Thames 10 years ago that has already cost £800m, more than the longest road tunnel in the world, and we haven't event started it yet! Just think about that. The fact things get delayed and cost so much more is a problem with British society and governance. It is not a random thing that just happens some times and scuppers our plans. It will happen again with all these 'new' projects.
We are crap at building, and that doesn't look to be getting any better under the Tories, Labour or Lib Dem, this is cross-party. And all this decision with HS2 does is confirm it more to the world and to investors, and to the campaigners and Nimbys who help make us so crap. If the PM can scrap the biggest infrastructure project in decades in Britain, at a conference in Manchester, with the nation's press in attendance, please don't tell me to expect all of these smaller, disparate projects to go ahead too. It will be far too easy to cancel one here, another there, with nobody looking, and who is going to remember all this in a few years. If they managed to revitalise the entire northern transport system I would be delighted. But it's a bit like asking me if I would be happy if we suddenly built a million new homes a year. Sure I would. It ain't going to happen though.
Most of which is smoke and mirrors. All promises and no delivery, or monies already allocated.So what do we think? HS2 to Manchester cancelled, but £36 billion to be spent on rail, bus and road Improvements across the north and midlands.
It was mean to bring shareholders dividends. They always get that despite performance. See also water.Confused - privitisation was meant to bring investment yet our railway infrastructure is an utter shambles.
We all know that the savings will not be spent on that.So what do we think? HS2 to Manchester cancelled, but £36 billion to be spent on rail, bus and road Improvements across the north and midlands.
Spot on. Follow the money to see the real reason behind their decision.It was mean to bring shareholders dividends. They always get that despite performance. See also water.
Watch this space for all the CPO land bought on the routes of the cancelled HS2 elements. It will be bought at a reduced rate by supporters of the Tories then sold back again at a vastly inflated rate should Labour restart the project.
It's already started with Johnson's Dad making a few million by selling his house to HS2 although it was off the route.
Mark my words.
Corrupt to the core and now getting everything they can while they can.