I blame Pep

S

Superbretty

Well-known member
Watched the Pep Guardiola doc on the iplayer and it is definitely worth a look.
Explores how he has changed football with his possession based approach, which nearly all coaches seem to follow these days, including Critch.
Also looks at how Pep was inspired to pass the ball from side to side, (which Critch also does) to move the opposition around by watching handball games.
And it also mentions how he has used inverted wingers (does this sound familiar yet…)
The difference is Barca had Puyol and we’ve got Connelly. I’m not really surely we should be trying to emulate Barca and City with the players we’ve got.
 
England DNA is the closest explanation I've seen for why we play how we do under Critchley as he's been on a course with the FA since their last root and branch investigation into what went wrong against Iceland in Euro 2016.

Basic method behind it for England is safe keep ball with cloggers like Henderson to use up time in games where it keeps possession away from better technical foreign opposition. And doing it slowly in safe spaces should in theory limit the chances of someone having a brainfart and dropping a clanger, less underhit/overhit passes and getting caught out. Then try and get up the wings to put the ball near where Harry Kane can do something with it in the box or dive for a penalty.

One plan where it involves scoring first and seeing it out.
 
Superbretty said:
Watched the Pep Guardiola doc on the iplayer and it is definitely worth a look.
Explores how he has changed football with his possession based approach, which nearly all coaches seem to follow these days, including Critch.
Also looks at how Pep was inspired to pass the ball from side to side, (which Critch also does) to move the opposition around by watching handball games.
And it also mentions how he has used inverted wingers (does this sound familiar yet…)
The difference is Barca had Puyol and we’ve got Connelly. I’m not really surely we should be trying to emulate Barca and City with the players we’ve got.
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I've just watched it, excellent documentary.
The one thing that stood out was when Carles Puyol was being interviewed.
In away games they were told don't bother playing for the draw play to win.

FFS we've been telling Critchley that all season.
And I don't think that anyone would mind about the playing out from the back, tippy tappy football and inverted wingers if there was more of an end product.
 
Superbretty said:
Watched the Pep Guardiola doc on the iplayer and it is definitely worth a look.
Explores how he has changed football with his possession based approach, which nearly all coaches seem to follow these days, including Critch.
Also looks at how Pep was inspired to pass the ball from side to side, (which Critch also does) to move the opposition around by watching handball games.
And it also mentions how he has used inverted wingers (does this sound familiar yet…)
The difference is Barca had Puyol and we’ve got Connelly. I’m not really surely we should be trying to emulate Barca and City with the players we’ve got.
Click to expand...
Call me out if you like but I honestly think, "get intae 'em" would see us into the play offs.
 
It's now become... if you can't beat them, join them.

If you now don't play some sort of passing football you're likely to be left behind.

The reality is chasing players comfortable on the ball is tiring and if you have the lions share of the ball and are able to transfer the dominance into shots etc, then in all likelihood you win the game.

That's the way it's meant to be done, but not everyone is good enough to convert dominance into chances. Also there are times where passing goes wrong and leaves you exposed.

Ultimately it can be largely positive as we've seen if we pass the ball fast enough, in the league we're in, we have enough skillful players who can create something, or do something to create a chance.

It's also helpful if we get promoted, as if we keep giving the ball away to better players you're more likely to be hurt.

It's a must these days and if were to be successful we need to keep developing and improving this philosophy, building towards it even more with the signings to suit.

Infact, we have progressed a fair bit.

Under Critchley last time we did it occasionally, remember Reading away, but were mostly a very robust pressing side. This was always going to be the next level for us.

Still a long way to go and lot to improve. Like when we've passed it around the back only to hoof, or times where some possession would have helped, like at Bristol rovers. Some passages of possession there would have killed any momentum, tired them out and made them chase us, opening up spaces to attack if done properly. But you can excuse that style given we went many minutes with a prem side and our away record.
 
Watched it last night, very good watch, when they were talking I thought that’s what critch is sort of trying to achieve, although our £20k player doesn’t play like their 20m player
 
There's one team in the whole English football pyramid who have the quality players to play Peps way, every other team tries it and they all fuck up eventually, we certainly do.
 
Peterborough and Portsmouth both try and pass forward up the pitch quickly to keep possession but also keep the pressure on in the opposition half and they're the current top two. Nobody is going to be perfect every week in L1 but that looks like the best way to me. Force errors instead of creating your own.
 
Its completely different to how we play to be honest yes they play horizontal passes but City also play a vertical tikitaka when they break through the lines

Hence their system of 3 behind 2 with a midfield pivot it all comes through Rodri

Yes we play side ways but we then go diagonally and long and we dont have the fluidity and play it safety first completely the opposite of Peps City

Imo of course
 
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Sandgroanun said:
I don't know why we bother with it. All we do is pass it around at the back then to midfield who pass it sideways then backwards before one of the centre halves then smashes it forward. Waste of time.
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Logic is if they ain’t got the ball they can’t score, pass it around and make spaces by getting the opposition out of position.
But…. We usually don’t have enough movement up front for this to happen hence our side to side quite often
 
Excalibur said:
... and Leicester won the premiership playing the opposite, let them have the ball as much as the like then hit them on the break...
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That was in a time of English teams still transitioning to passing styles, I doubt it could happen these days now the whole prem has played that way for many years and the youngsters coming though all do too.

They're just too good now.
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
Its completely different to how we play to be honest yes they play horizontal passes but City also play a vertical tikitaka when they break through the lines

Hence their system of 3 behind 2 with a midfield pivot it all comes through Rodri

Yes we play side ways but we then go diagonally and long and we dont have the fluidity and play it safety first completely the opposite of Peps City

Imo of course
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What we play is bollux.

You can’t tap it around at the back, give it to husband to bang over CJs head. You have to have the link in midfield to turn and probe.

This is a top coach. Why is it so hard.

ps Puyol is probably my fav non BFC player. An amazing leader. Michael Jackson is the closest Pool player I’ve seen.
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
Its completely different to how we play to be honest yes they play horizontal passes but City also play a vertical tikitaka when they break through the lines

Hence their system of 3 behind 2 with a midfield pivot it all comes through Rodri

Yes we play side ways but we then go diagonally and long and we dont have the fluidity and play it safety first completely the opposite of Peps City

Imo of course
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Yes I agree with you in the main. We do try and keep possession at the back and midfield with sideways and backwards malarkey, but then don’t have the skill/bottle to play it through the midfield (or they are being instructed not to) and we end up hoofing it.
We, like many other teams, have definitely taken on a lot of Pep’s philosophy though. How many teams, including us, play out from the back now?
 
poolfc said:
England DNA is the closest explanation I've seen for why we play how we do under Critchley as he's been on a course with the FA since their last root and branch investigation into what went wrong against Iceland in Euro 2016.

Basic method behind it for England is safe keep ball with cloggers like Henderson to use up time in games where it keeps possession away from better technical foreign opposition. And doing it slowly in safe spaces should in theory limit the chances of someone having a brainfart and dropping a clanger, less underhit/overhit passes and getting caught out. Then try and get up the wings to put the ball near where Harry Kane can do something with it in the box or dive for a penalty.

One plan where it involves scoring first and seeing it out.
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These days, Henderson aside, our players are as technically proficient as anyone.
 
Wizaard said:
These days, Henderson aside, our players are as technically proficient as anyone.
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It's getting there gradually with St George Park and work on the age groups. But it wasn't when the FA put a plan in place to try and find a way to stay in tournaments for longer with a bunch of kick and rush merchants/athletes-first-footballer-second types. Which is the backbone of the Prem and how we like English football. Big strong lads being able to go at 100mph every three days.
 
poolfc said:
It's getting there gradually with St George Park and work on the age groups. But it wasn't when the FA put a plan in place to try and find a way to stay in tournaments for longer with a bunch of kick and rush merchants/athletes-first-footballer-second types. Which is the backbone of the Prem and how we like English football. Big strong lads being able to go at 100mph every three days.
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Do you watch Match of the Day? All matches are the same and it ain't kick and rush.
 
Wizaard said:
Do you watch Match of the Day? All matches are the same and it ain't kick and rush.
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Didn't think you watched the Prem but yep I do. Doesn't seem be many 0-0 draws does there. Always something going on and it's a good mix of our English mentality towards football and the influence of the rest of the world.

For England as an international football team the FA haven't got the luxury of signing Luka Modric or Kevin De Bruyne in a transfer window and as every tournament was ending the same way they've tried to change the approach to at least make it more respectable. And they're a bit threadbare on viable English manager options but they are trying to train up new method coaches. And to bring players through with a way of staying in games to control the outcome. And still working around ability gaps compared to others. It's all a bit Plan A has to work as laid out in advance but at least it's something.

When Critchley had his gap year with Stevie G and QPR that didn't work out I thought we'd see him pop up with the FA in a support role as it fits how he coaches.

www.independent.co.uk

What was the ‘England DNA’ plan and how has it come to pass?

The English Football Association’s put a long-term plan in place to improve the national team and help reach major finals like Sunday’s Euro 2020 showdown with Italy at Wembley
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk
 
I think the way we are trying to play is absolutely the right thing to be doing as a club. We will attract better players by doing it whether that be permanents or prem loans, it will also give us a much better chance of competing if we are to go back up too. It just takes time to develop and to bring in the right players to do it well with the right tempo. I know we often hear about playing differently away or plan bs and whilst there are occasions for it, I've never really gone with that fully. My plan B would always be to get better at plan A.
It will come, we just have to have a bit of patience which we as football fans are hardly renowned for. Critch has took some grief and some of it deserved but I do think he will get it right for us.
 
It's ok Barca and City playing that kind of game. When we try to emulate them it invariably ends up with a dozen square passes, play the ball to our keeper and he lumps it to the towering Dembele and Lavery. City have Rodri, De Bruyne and Foden in the middle. Enough said.
 
I think all these "we don't have the players to do this" comments miss the mark, because you're forgetting that other teams don't have world class defenders either. You can play a possession based game at any level, because the teams should be reasonably evenly matched.

I like watching our style. I like seeing us control a game and press the accelerator when WE choose to.

Too many fans think that real life is just like playing FIFA, and you just hold down the sprint button to win any game. Classic boomerball.
 
cside said:
I think all these "we don't have the players to do this" comments miss the mark, because you're forgetting that other teams don't have world class defenders either. You can play a possession based game at any level, because the teams should be reasonably evenly matched.

I like watching our style. I like seeing us control a game and press the accelerator when WE choose to.

Too many fans think that real life is just like playing FIFA, and you just hold down the sprint button to win any game. Classic boomerball.
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I don’t think passing sideways and backwards is controlling the game. I think it is possession for possession’s sake. We’ve played plenty of away games this season where we’ve had the most possession but have ultimately lost the game.
 
cside said:
I think all these "we don't have the players to do this" comments miss the mark, because you're forgetting that other teams don't have world class defenders either. You can play a possession based game at any level, because the teams should be reasonably evenly matched.

I like watching our style. I like seeing us control a game and press the accelerator when WE choose to.

Too many fans think that real life is just like playing FIFA, and you just hold down the sprint button to win any game. Classic boomerball.
Click to expand...
Yep and too many people think the answer to everything on a football pitch is 'get in to them' play 4 4 ** 2 and that a bulldog attitude will always win against this fancy foreign stuff.

Critchley has a method and a plan he tries to execute, compare with the previous two chanchers
 
Seasidestevo71 said:
Logic is if they ain’t got the ball they can’t score, pass it around and make spaces by getting the opposition out of position.
But…. We usually don’t have enough movement up front for this to happen hence our side to side quite often
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That's quite a cliffhanger don't often what?
 
At Barca, the highly skilled players short-passed their opponents to death. They'd work it wide, no cross...all the way over to the other side....no cross. After 70mins the opposition was a) knackered and b) bored shitless. After a while, so was I.

I like at City how he has them playing both this style and a more dynamic approach. 60yd pings when it is on, etc.

Who would have thought 10 years ago that FGR would come to Bloomers and start fannying about in their own 18 yard box, every time their keeper gets the ball? The game has evolved, but a good mix of styles is much better to watch.
 
poolfc said:
Didn't think you watched the Prem but yep I do. Doesn't seem be many 0-0 draws does there. Always something going on and it's a good mix of our English mentality towards football and the influence of the rest of the world.

For England as an international football team the FA haven't got the luxury of signing Luka Modric or Kevin De Bruyne in a transfer window and as every tournament was ending the same way they've tried to change the approach to at least make it more respectable. And they're a bit threadbare on viable English manager options but they are trying to train up new method coaches. And to bring players through with a way of staying in games to control the outcome. And still working around ability gaps compared to others. It's all a bit Plan A has to work as laid out in advance but at least it's something.

When Critchley had his gap year with Stevie G and QPR that didn't work out I thought we'd see him pop up with the FA in a support role as it fits how he coaches.

www.independent.co.uk

What was the ‘England DNA’ plan and how has it come to pass?

The English Football Association’s put a long-term plan in place to improve the national team and help reach major finals like Sunday’s Euro 2020 showdown with Italy at Wembley
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk
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In the 80s and 90s, we had good players but watching England was painful; we just couldn't keep the ball. The penny dropped 10 -15 years ago, St George's Park was established to teach young talented kids to look after a footy. We are now seeing the results and then some! Our conveyor belt is probably the world standard now, young players who don't give the ball away and can skin players for fun. Really good to see in my book.


 
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Superbretty said:
Yes I agree with you in the main. We do try and keep possession at the back and midfield with sideways and backwards malarkey, but then don’t have the skill/bottle to play it through the midfield (or they are being instructed not to) and we end up hoofing it.
We, like many other teams, have definitely taken on a lot of Pep’s philosophy though. How many teams, including us, play out from the back now?
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Starts with Grimmy not making a fast pass to our wingers instead rolling it out to Hubby.
Not having a go at Grimmy he will have been instructed to play that way.
 
mad-link said:
In the 80s and 90s, we had good players but watching England was painful; we just couldn't keep the ball. The penny dropped 10 -15 years ago, St George's Park was established to teach young talented kids to look after a footy. We are now seeing the results and then some! Our conveyor belt is probably the world standard now, young players who don't give the ball away and can skin players for fun. Really good to see in my book.https://youtube.com/shorts/dgMTpKmXGfg?feature=shared
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The talent pool of defensive/midfield options looks thin on the ground and that is still showing up in senior tournaments but it's getting there gradually.

A positive sign last summer that the U21s won their trophy without conceding as that it is usually the ceiling for England under age groups. When the opposition start to match up physically and can't just be bullied. So the playing method does work in terms of mapping the game out and thinking about the next pass. Rather than just letting a bunch of big strong athletic lads run about for a bit then come home with a hard luck story.
 
mad-link said:
In the 80s and 90s, we had good players but watching England was painful; we just couldn't keep the ball. The penny dropped 10 -15 years ago, St George's Park was established to teach young talented kids to look after a footy. We are now seeing the results and then some! Our conveyor belt is probably the world standard now, young players who don't give the ball away and can skin players for fun. Really good to see in my book.


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Keep Sancho fit and we'll win the Euros.
 
Wizzerboy said:
15 minutes into tonights match and Spurs have been chasing shadows for most of them.
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city dominated and thoroughly deserved their win. Played some great football and only desperate defending kept them out. I'd have liked the goal to be disallowed of course but there were more fouls on Vicario at pretty much every other corner so this was never gonna get disallowed because there was very little wrong with it. Keeper just not strong enough dealing with it.
 
It's easily doable with the right players in any league. Pep probably had the greatest ever team at barca between 2008/2013. The football was unbelievable, problem is we signed some players who couldn't pass the parcel nevermind a ball. This would have to be down to scouts or whoever signs these players and needs sorting out. If that's what we are going to do get rid of the non ball playing players, yes Marvs included. Could get decent doe for him, instead of trying to make him into something he isn't(great defensively which is a shame).
 
I can't take to Guardiola, great player but a bit of a sell out, I can't imagine his mentor Cruyff taking the City job.
 
I just watched the Pep documentary & it left me exhausted. Little wonder Klopp is leaving Liverpool. The pressure must be intense regardless of the rewards. Would either of them play Connolly today though Is the question 😬
 
Watching the spurs/city game last night, you see the pace these players have, it’s incredible, but surely it can’t be that they are all naturally quick, it must be the training.
 
I’ve wondered a few times this season if this was a 2 year plan for promotion. Apply the style and tactics this season and get the whole club playing the same. The if we hit the play offs great, but normally takes 3 or 4 windows to get the players you need to fit a style.

This style of football is more akin to what succeeds in the Championship and as a result we might develop a player quickly that can be sold at a nice profit making summer 2 a better recruitment window.

With the style in place and a squad comfortable fitting within it, we have a better chance of survival in the Championship. Then we go again with squad development until it’s more towards the play offs. An actual plan. A middle term plan.

A more direct style might get us up this season but we’d be badly equipped for next season. I’m also thinking this is similar to what Swansea did with Brendan Shagnasty. They adopted a weird tactic for that time and stuck it out until their squad caught up and they succeeded
 
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