SwannDangerous
Well-known member
As if someone lifted their kid up so they were in the way of someone throwing a flare. Seriously bad parenting.
Probably lucky just to not get red eye.There's a huge difference between a flare and a smoke bomb. A flare is far more dangerous, but of course, throwing a smoke bomb or flare is incredibly stupid and dangerous.
As mentioned, sadly, it's not just about modern society. There was the ammonia incident, and missiles were regularly thrown over at the back of The Kop. In 1975 or 76, when Chelsea had been relegated to the Second Division, I was hit by a red pool ball thrown by a Chelsea fan. For some reason, I picked it up and took it home.
There's a huge difference between a flare and a smoke bomb. A flare is far more dangerous, but of course, throwing a smoke bomb or flare is incredibly stupid and dangerous.
I don’t think it would be too detrimental loosing posts Leon, but on the other hand, if we lost points then that could be very damaging.Brilliant. Another fine, most likely. Maybe we have to loose posts before these idiots learn. No wonder the club wants nowt to do with them.
Why? It’s not as if they’re actual football supporters who were there to watch the game. I’m sure they’ll find somewhere else to carry out their thuggery.I agree but a lifetime ban for a stupid youth is a bit harsh.
We have all done silly things in our youth which makes us gringe when we reflect some of our actions.
5 year ban yes but lifetime come on.
Basically because people change dramatically over the course of a lifetime and the people we are at 16-25 years old is not the same people we are at 25-35 years old, which is not the same people we are at 35-45 years old, which is not the same people as we are from 45 upwards (I can't speak for the rest, because I've not made it that far yet... but you get the point!!Why? It’s not as if they’re actual football supporters who were there to watch the game. I’m sure they’ll find somewhere else to carry out their thuggery.
There's a sliding scale of stupidity and throwing smoke bombs has to be closer to the 'must not do' end.Basically because people change dramatically over the course of a lifetime and the people we are at 16-25 years old is not the same people we are at 25-35 years old, which is not the same people we are at 35-45 years old, which is not the same people as we are from 45 upwards (I can't speak for the rest, because I've not made it that far yet... but you get the point!!
It's an idiotic thing to do and the lad needs to be dealt with, but at the same time, most of us have done some pretty stupid things in our youth.
It was a stupid thing to do, but in term of crimes against humanity (as it were) and causes for lifelong punishment, it sits at the 'teenage silliness' end of the spectrum.There's a sliding scale of stupidity and throwing smoke bombs has to be closer to the 'must not do' end.
and if it blinds somebody?......is that 'teenage silliness'?It was a stupid thing to do, but in term of crimes against humanity (as it were) and causes for lifelong punishment, it sits at the 'teenage silliness' end of the spectrum.
So a ban until they've 'grown up' a bit is punishment enough
It hasn't blinded anyone though... Although to answer your question, yes of course, teenage silliness can sometimes go horribly wrong.and if it blinds somebody?......is that 'teenage silliness'?
From the internet for those who feel a smoke bomb is acceptable both flares and smoke bombs are hazardous read on:It is stupid, but in law, there is no difference between either. These twonks have had their warnings, repeatedly. They need to be turned in and banned.
In fairness an apple can be dangerous if thrown in to a crowd of people.From the internet for those who feel a smoke bomb is acceptable both flares and smoke bombs are hazardous read on:
Flares burn at the melting point of steel and contain toxic chemicals. Designed for marine distress, they are deliberately difficult to extinguish. Smoke bombs also burn at high temperatures and are not designed for use in confined spaces. They can cause panic in a tightly packed crowd and trigger asthma attacks.
Common sense should tell this idiot and his friends they are not for throwing at football matches.
I personally don’t see any link whatsoever between throwing an apple into a crowded area and throwing a smoke bomb. According to your logic you would wait until someone is seriously hurt / blinded by a smoke bomb until we take it seriously. Oh dearIn fairness an apple can be dangerous if thrown in to a crowd of people.
Smoke Bombs and Flares can be used safely in crowded areas, if common sense is applied.
I happened to be at a Festival near Barcelona recently and these were being used in a Street Parade, with Police present and no problem at all.. They are also widely used by European supporters with no issue.
Throwing them is absolutely bloody stupid, but we’re also in danger here in the U.K. of being a bit of a nanny state where stuff like this is concerned.
Maybe treat people like grown ups and then they’ll act like it, is not a bad policy.
This doesn't make sense.In fairness an apple can be dangerous if thrown in to a crowd of people.
Smoke Bombs and Flares can be used safely in crowded areas, if common sense is applied.
I happened to be at a Festival near Barcelona recently and these were being used in a Street Parade, with Police present and no problem at all.. They are also widely used by European supporters with no issue.
Throwing them is absolutely bloody stupid, but we’re also in danger here in the U.K. of being a bit of a nanny state where stuff like this is concerned.
Maybe treat people like grown ups and then they’ll act like it, is not a bad policy.
Jesus Christ Almighty…I personally don’t see any link whatsoever between throwing an apple into a crowded area and throwing a smoke bomb. According to your logic you would wait until someone is seriously hurt / blinded by a smoke bomb until we take it seriously. Oh dear
yes read every single line.Jesus Christ Almighty…
Have you actually read anything that I’ve written above or are you just smashing your keyboard with your forehead?
I’m saying that by adopting a sensible ‘happy medium’ approach as happens abroad, rather than the typical British ‘wrap us all up in cotton wool’ approach, people might be less inclined to do something as daft as chucking these into the crowd.This doesn't make sense.
The flare thrower, in this scenario, was being treated like an adult in that he (she) had a flare on his (or her) possession inside the football stadium (treat them like adults).
They then proceeded to light the flare and throw it into a crowd of people where it burnt somebodies coat (not the actions of a responsible adult).
So treating them like adults doesn't work.
I too have witnessed the attitude to fireworks in Spain - it differs somewhat from our own and must cause many injuries. It's much more like what used to happen in the 1970's here. My own experience involved a guy on a quad bike with lit flares on the back deliberately driving into a crowd of people - no-one was hurt fortunately, 5 year old kids playing with bangers, a guy with a torch fire work flaring it at a child and many other dangerous activities. This was all part of a village parade as a part of a fiesta - it was quite crazy.
yes read every single line.
A fan got his hand blown off recently because somebody threw a firework into a crowd in a situation that was unregulated (unlike inside a stadium). So in a situation where they were free to do as they pleased someone ends up with life changing injuries. I am not sure that 'treat them like adults' works with everyone - particularly with those that have over indulged in drink and / or drugs.I’m saying that by adopting a sensible ‘happy medium’ approach as happens abroad, rather than the typical British ‘wrap us all up in cotton wool’ approach, people might be less inclined to do something as daft as chucking these into the crowd.
Lime everything else we just turn these things into stuff that kids want to do, just because they can’t.
Fair point ESBN, but I think my original point stands really... Idiots will do idiotic things and an object as innocent as an Apple can cause harm to someone if used inappropriately. The point being that it's the throwing of the object into the crowd or onto the pitch, which makes it dangerous.A fan got his hand blown off recently because somebody threw a firework into a crowd in a situation that was unregulated (unlike inside a stadium). So in a situation where they were free to do as they pleased someone ends up with life changing injuries. I am not sure that 'treat them like adults' works with everyone - particularly with those that have over indulged in drink and / or drugs.
As for it's better abroad;
Venezia and Milan fans clash at sea as flares and smoke bombs thrown from boats
Incredible footage has emerged of Venezia and AC Milan fans clashing at sea as they take a ferry to the Stadio Pierluigi Penzo ahead of their Serie A fixture on Sundaywww.dailystar.co.uk
Flares suspend Italy match
Flares thrown by fans temporarily suspended the European Qualifier between Italy and Croatia at the San Siro.www.skysports.com
and from a different era;
Vincenzo Paparelli: Death in the Terrace | The Laziali
Vincenzo Paparelli, 33-year-old father of two, a mechanic by trade and Laziale was in the stands for the match with his wife Wanda.thelaziali.com
etc. etc.
No one ever has an issue with them when their being set off every 5 minutes for 3 days at Galstonbury,even the BBC coverage makes a point of showing people setting flares off.In fairness an apple can be dangerous if thrown in to a crowd of people.
Smoke Bombs and Flares can be used safely in crowded areas, if common sense is applied.
I happened to be at a Festival near Barcelona recently and these were being used in a Street Parade, with Police present and no problem at all.. They are also widely used by European supporters with no issue.
Throwing them is absolutely bloody stupid, but we’re also in danger here in the U.K. of being a bit of a nanny state where stuff like this is concerned.
Maybe treat people like grown ups and then they’ll act like it, is not a bad policy.
No problem with actions having consequences, but banning youngsters for life, whether it's racial abuse, throwing a flare or any other kind of stupidity is utterly ridiculous and completely disproportionate. It's just a stupid thing to do and also completely unnecessary.I don't think you'll ever get consensus, but my opinion is that flares and smoke bombs arent being thrown by fans who care like most of us clearly do. I wouldn't do anything to hurt BFC and I wouldn't have when I was 16, 18 or any other age. This isn't the state, and watching Blackpool isn't a human right. It's a business, beloved by a great many people. The business in question has made it pretty clear that people throwing things, up to and including flares, are hurting BFC and they've asked pretty clearly for it to stop. If the punishment is a life ban, same as it is for racial abuse, then people make their choices and have to live with the consequences in my opinion. If we don't want a nanny state, surely we ask people to take responsibility for their actions, especially when the consequences are extremely clear to begin with.
Just my opinion.
That's your opinion and that's fine.No problem with actions having consequences, but banning youngsters for life, whether it's racial abuse, throwing a flare or any other kind of stupidity is utterly ridiculous and completely disproportionate. It's just a stupid thing to do and also completely unnecessary.
You're talking about preventing someone aged 80 from watching their Club, because of a minor misdemeanour when they were a kid ffs... Think about it... Whether the Club is your beloved or not, that's just silly. I mean how the hell would you even manage to enforce something like that in any case.
A ban of a few years is more than enough for a kid / young adult as a first caution for something like this.
I think you're also getting a bit supercilious with all of this beloved club and doing 'anything to hurt BFC' baloney too... Not everyone has the same start in life and also young kids aren't going to be interested in reading Club statements and what the FA have fined the Club etc... They're just being dickheads... They need educating and an opportunity to turn their lives around, not writing off and ostracising from the things they enjoy forever.
There was a process that used to be in place as far as I can remember, where bans were issued and then the Club subsequently got individuals to sign an "Acceptable Behaviour" type of order. That to me seems like a sensible and reasonable approach, especially where younger fans are concerned.That's your opinion and that's fine.
A mate of mines brother got a lifetime ban from Burnley. First time they were in the prem their fans had a little altercation with drogba who goaded them when he scored. This lad had been drinking all day and ran down the stand yelling abuse, and called him an unacceptable name. Burnley banned him for life and when I asked him about it, he was gutted but he said he brought it on himself, and he agreed with them.
Few years later he wrote to the club chairman and apologised, explained how he accepted he was wrong, wanted to make amends. The chairman to his credit, invited him to the club to make his case face to face, which he did and after agreeing to do some work in the community side of the club, he allowed him back, under warning that he wouldn't get a third chance. That seems a decent handling of unacceptable behaviour IMO.
Maybe that's the answer, life ban, go earn your redemption. I suspect most wouldn't, but if they do then great, I'm all for education. And I don't think it's supercilious, I'm definitely superior to flare throwers.
He was in his early 20's. We're not massive polls apart in view i don't think, however one small point, I have marginally more sympathy for the heat of the moment stupidity you describe to the entirely premeditated go and buy pyrotechnics with the express intension of bringing them to football with no regard for safety or potential negative affect on the club. I'm genuinely embarrassed by bad fan behaviour in the same way I was proud when we graced the Prem.There was a process that used to be in place as far as I can remember, where bans were issued and then the Club subsequently got individuals to sign an "Acceptable Behaviour" type of order. That to me seems like a sensible and reasonable approach, especially where younger fans are concerned.
I'm not sure how old your mate's brother was, but I'm guessing he wasn't 16-18 and so arguably it's a different circumstance.... If it was a 40 year old adult chucking flares into the Crowd, then I might think they deserved a harsh punishment (not banning for life though, because it's just daft).
You've highlighted there in your post though that adults (not just kids) can be prone to doing daft stuff... Whether they've had a few too many to drink, get caught up in a situation that escalates out of control, are having a bad day for some reason or whatever..
And of course, the Club needs to have a way to deal with these things, because many of them aren't criminal offences and even if they were they might be minor things.... So it makes sense to have proportionate sanctions and then people know where they stand and that as a Club you can reasonably apply and enforce.
I don't think it really matters why they are doing it... They're young lads who are doing stupid stuff... The sort of stuff that barring the saintly few like yourself, that most of us have done at one time or another. It may well be for likes or views on the internet and if so, they're hardly alone - everyone's at it these days.He was in his early 20's. We're not massive polls apart in view i don't think, however one small point, I have marginally more sympathy for the heat of the moment stupidity you describe to the entirely premeditated go and buy pyrotechnics with the express intension of bringing them to football with no regard for safety or potential negative affect on the club. I'm genuinely embarrassed by bad fan behaviour in the same way I was proud when we graced the Prem.
You may believe they're passionate young fans, whereas I don't at all, I think they're mostly doing it for Snapchat likes and I deeply wish them to do it somewhere else.
EDIT just found out Snapchat doesn't have likes, but I'm proud I didn't know that and the general point stands!
I don't think it really matters why they are doing it... They're young lads who are doing stupid stuff... The sort of stuff that barring the saintly few like yourself, that most of us have done at one time or another. It may well be for likes or views on the internet and if so, they're hardly alone - everyone's at it these days.
Why are you so combative? I'm allowed an opinion and I think I've expressed it in a reasonable fashion, and it is a view that every football club in the country shares btw, so not conclusively "daft" as you call it, yet you resort to things like "saintly few like you", seems like you're itching for a row, which is not why I come on this board. Also, I don't think "most" people do things that can get you banned from football or in trouble with the police when they are young, I think most people don't do that now, I think it's a tiny minority. I'm allowed my opinion, and if you disagree, fine.I don't think it really matters why they are doing it... They're young lads who are doing stupid stuff... The sort of stuff that barring the saintly few like yourself, that most of us have done at one time or another. It may well be for likes or views on the internet and if so, they're hardly alone - everyone's at it these days.
I just think that some of you come across as a bit pious, when handing out your life sentences to other people, that’s all.Why are you so combative? I'm allowed an opinion and I think I've expressed it in a reasonable fashion, and it is a view that every football club in the country shares btw, so not conclusively "daft" as you call it, yet you resort to things like "saintly few like you", seems like you're itching for a row, which is not why I come on this board. Also, I don't think "most" people do things that can get you banned from football or in trouble with the police when they are young, I think most people don't do that now, I think it's a tiny minority. I'm allowed my opinion, and if you disagree, fine.
Think that's my last post on the subject.
Getting your hand blown off is not tomfoolery. That actually happened to someone in our fan base as a result of the sort of behaviour you are seeking to excuse.
It sounds like on Saturday we were lucky someone wasn't burned. Someone who did get injured by this type of behaviour would in all likelihood win substantial compensation from the club. They should be able to attend a football match with out risk of injury. I can't believe that you are seemingly condoning this.
There was a process that used to be in place as far as I can remember, where bans were issued and then the Club subsequently got individuals to sign an "Acceptable Behaviour" type of order. That to me seems like a sensible and reasonable approach, especially where younger fans are concerned.
I'm not sure how old your mate's brother was, but I'm guessing he wasn't 16-18 and so arguably it's a different circumstance.... If it was a 40 year old adult chucking flares into the Crowd, then I might think they deserved a harsh punishment (not banning for life though, because it's just daft).
You've highlighted there in your post though that adults (not just kids) can be prone to doing daft stuff... Whether they've had a few too many to drink, get caught up in a situation that escalates out of control, are having a bad day for some reason or whatever..
And of course, the Club needs to have a way to deal with these things, because many of them aren't criminal offences and even if they were they might be minor things.... So it makes sense to have proportionate sanctions and then people know where they stand and that as a Club you can reasonably apply and enforce.
That's exactly why flares etc. are banned.So you can’t account for stupidity, regardless. Stupid people will always do stupid things…
Of course they are football supporters, don't spout absolute horse shiteWhy? It’s not as if they’re actual football supporters who were there to watch the game. I’m sure they’ll find somewhere else to carry out their thuggery.
I’m not sure I implied anything of the sort. I think you’ve chosen to overlay my words with your own interpretationThat's exactly why they are banned.
You implied earlier that you wanted to allow people to enter football grounds with flares and smoke bombs ('treat them like adults').
I don't think I'd go as far with it as a complete free for all though, but it might be possible to have certain 'approved individuals' allowed to let them off at certain times in a safe area for example.
2. Hand Held Flares and Smokers can be used safely in a Football Ground or other similar environment.
The fact that they are banned or illegal doesn’t mean that they can’t be used safely in that environment…it just means you’re not allowed to use them.No they can't. They are banned. It is illegal to take into a ground, or attempt to take into a ground; fireworks, smoke bombs, flares or any other pyrotechnics. As an arrestable offence, penalties can range from fines, banning orders or in worse cases imprisonment.
No matter what you think, it really is as simple as that. They are illegal.
Very well put. I totally agree with this and I’m now a member of the 60 plus mob. Done daft shit every decadeBasically because people change dramatically over the course of a lifetime and the people we are at 16-25 years old is not the same people we are at 25-35 years old, which is not the same people we are at 35-45 years old, which is not the same people as we are from 45 upwards (I can't speak for the rest, because I've not made it that far yet... but you get the point!!
It's an idiotic thing to do and the lad needs to be dealt with, but at the same time, most of us have done some pretty stupid things in our youth.
These rules and regs are all well and good. However, the value that the Club and well behaved fans get from these rules depends more on the degree to which they are implemented. In the North, standing and blocking gangways seems to be de rigeur. In which circumstance, the rules are meaningless. They come across more as 'nice to have' because stewards are disinclined to get involved in any meaningful way. I don't blame them either.. Authority and the ability to implement sanctions lie solely with the police. These days the police don't want to be stewards at football grounds and, in any case, aren't resourced to do it. So, clubs (not just ours), need to be more realistic about what they can do to manage unruly supporters.This is almost exactly what BFC already do. The club's ban policy is on their website and a link appears here. It has a graduated approach and makes a distinction between the behaviour of adults and minors.
It is a resource intensive process for the club, if they have any number of people who are in breach of minimum standards of behaviour ; this is a "hidden" cost over and above what they already incur when paying fines etc.
As has been said before - it really is up to us to help the club make this work.
I think the answer is probably the reverse... More Thicko's at the Rugby... Hence more compliance (The sheep mentality)Rugby doesn't seem to have as much (if any) trouble from it's supporters. What's the key difference. More thicko's at football?