Interesting article

i read the article then did five minutes of fact checking

Neil talking bollocks about cancer not Covid and German promise of tanks to poland

can’t believe that I even felt the need to check an Andrew Neil column for it’s factual content

can believe that Scara reads and then posts without engaging his brain
 
What a crap article.

I don't know where to start on that but the bit about instability in EU governments is up there. Kettle and pot come to mind.

The electric interconnectors transfer electric both directions and have historically had greater flow from France to UK. We are providing more electricity to France at the moment due to the French taking off-line a number of nuclear power stations for planned maintenance and the UK having excess capacity due to lower summer demand. As we go into winter, and colder weather, we will start drawing power from France (due to their high capacity of nuclear) particularly when UK wind power is low.

You have also got to ask the question that if things are so bad in the EU why Andrew Neil's primary residence is in France.
 
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Regarding the gas pipeline the UK imports 50 % of its natural gas. Imported gas comes mainly from Norway and about 15 % in LNG from ME/US. We are going to be importing more LNG and basically exporting that directly to the continent to help mitigate European reliance on Russian gas. Seems like a good thing to be doing and the UK energy companies will be making a margin from doing it. Can't really see where the story is on this one. Every time Norway pumps us more gas I don't see Andrew Neil commenting on it.
 
Recidivist3 said:
i read the article then did five minutes of fact checking

Neil talking bollocks about cancer not Covid and German promise of tanks to poland

can’t believe that I even felt the need to check an Andrew Neil column for it’s factual content

can believe that Scara reads and then posts without engaging his brain
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What brain???
 
I imagine all the haters that have replied are currently in politics at high degree seeing as you all seem so knowledgeable about absolutely everything that you disagree with. Of course it’s got nothing to do with the fact that the truth doesn’t suit your political natrative.
 
Recidivist3 said:
i read the article then did five minutes of fact checking

Neil talking bollocks about cancer not Covid and German promise of tanks to poland

can’t believe that I even felt the need to check an Andrew Neil column for it’s factual content

can believe that Scara reads and then posts without engaging his brain
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I thought I told you to DM me, if you want to have a private discussion away from the board I’m available.
 
Lost Seasider said:
Meanwhile, the French are deliberately and spitefully causing chaos in Dover just for the sake of it.

Let them freeze.
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Do you really believe that ?

Macron 'I know let's deliberately slow entry into France for all those UK holiday makers. That will really piss them off even though they make a signifcant contribution to the French tourism economy and may sack off visitng in future. That's a great idea'
 
bollieboy said:
Do you really believe that ?

Macron 'I know let's deliberately slow entry into France for all those UK holiday makers. That will really piss them off even though they make a signifcant contribution to the French tourism economy and may sack off visitng in future. That's a great idea'
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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/07/22/anti-britain-anti-brexit-minister-centre-dover-mayhem/

We know the French are causing it by not providing the border officials they were supposed to, they have form for this sort of behaviour in the past and all the indications are it's deliberate.

Do you have an alternative explanation for what's going on?
 
Lost Seasider said:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/07/22/anti-britain-anti-brexit-minister-centre-dover-mayhem/

We know the French are causing it by not providing the border officials they were supposed to, they have form for this sort of behaviour in the past and all the indications are it's deliberate.

Do you have an alternative explanation for what's going on?
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Whole load of reasons and lots of smoke and mirrors on both sides.

What I do know is that it is not in the interests of the French to piss off UK holidaymakers so can't see this being done deliberately. More likely to be a combination of incompetence, poor planning, equipment failures, etc.
 
Why are we exporting gas and importing it at the same time? Why don’t we build more U.K. gas storage facilities and pipe in cheaper gas when needed?
 
tangerine_neil said:
Why are we exporting gas and importing it at the same time? Why don’t we build more U.K. gas storage facilities and pipe in cheaper gas when needed?
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We are gas to Europe at moment to mitigate use of Russian gas. Europe needs to increase its capacity for receiving LPG ( via sea freight) and in the meantime UK is maxing its import of LPG and then pumping to Europe via pipeline.

The pipeline is used to strategically to help balance supply throughout Europe so can be used to to import gas to UK if for whatever reason UK required additional capacity.

Regarding gas storage facilities the government allowed Centrica to shut the Rough storage facility in 2013, a decision that was widely criticised at the time. That reduced UK gas storage capacity by approximately 70 % so that we can only store enough gas now for 4 or 5 winters days of demand. Not a great position to be in.
 
bollieboy said:
Whole load of reasons and lots of smoke and mirrors on both sides.

What I do know is that it is not in the interests of the French to piss off UK holidaymakers so can't see this being done deliberately. More likely to be a combination of incompetence, poor planning, equipment failures, etc.
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Since when have the French been bothered about p***ing off UK holidaymakers?

This has all the hallmarks of the usual French spite.
 
bollieboy said:
www.cityam.com

Govt rejects £33m proposal for more passport booths at Dover leaving longer queues more likely - CityAM

The UK cabinet office has rejected a £33m proposal to double the capacity for French government passport checks at Dover, dooming UK passengers to long delays at the border post-Brexit.
www.cityam.com www.cityam.com
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That's from 2020, and talks about doubling the number of booths from 5 to 10, this is from today: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/07/23/long-long-delays-expected-port-dover/

The long queues came despite all 10 French passport control booths being fully manned at the port, in contrast to Friday, when only four appeared to be operational.

Mr Bannister told the Telegraph: “Starting from five o’clock this morning, we had 12 French immigrations officers turn up. That enabled them to man all the booths – now, that is the big difference between yesterday and today.”

“And as we can see, the traffic is moving much, much better now.”

He noted that while the problem had been largely resolved at the port, the backlog and travel disruption on the motorways was still an issue.
 
Scaramanga said:
I imagine all the haters that have replied are currently in politics at high degree seeing as you all seem so knowledgeable about absolutely everything that you disagree with. Of course it’s got nothing to do with the fact that the truth doesn’t suit your political natrative.
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It certainly doesn't suit yours
 
Extracts below from todays BBC News online.
Yes the French immigration and customs posts may be understaffed today , but these long delays didnt happen in the past eg pre covid didnt have to check and stamp all passports as now. Theyve no obligation to heavily staff their ports . You will find our airports are like that for incoming overseas nationals.
If you wanted friction free movement to Europe then best not to have left the EU or the Single Market.
1.
"Holidaymakers have been facing long delays again today - but some predict they could become a regular feature for those heading for a European getaway.

From September, the EU will be introducing even more checks - with biometric testing at the border for non-EU nationals.

So, now we're not in the EU anymore, we'll see facial recognition and fingerprinting becoming the norm.

It's already prompting warnings of more delays."
2.
"This is what 'taking back control' means, says union
When Brexit voters thought they were "taking back control", the French actually took control of their own border, an union representative has told the BBC.

Lucy Moreton, professional officer for the ISU union that represents borders, immigration and customs staff, says the queues are "not upsetting the French particularly".

"This isn’t our border that we’ve taken back control of. In fact, France has taken back control of its border in this respect."
 
Lost Seasider said:
That's from 2020, and talks about doubling the number of booths from 5 to 10, this is from today: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/07/23/long-long-delays-expected-port-dover/

The long queues came despite all 10 French passport control booths being fully manned at the port, in contrast to Friday, when only four appeared to be operational.

Mr Bannister told the Telegraph: “Starting from five o’clock this morning, we had 12 French immigrations officers turn up. That enabled them to man all the booths – now, that is the big difference between yesterday and today.”

“And as we can see, the traffic is moving much, much better now.”

He noted that while the problem had been largely resolved at the port, the backlog and travel disruption on the motorways was still an issue.
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Those extra booths came into operation on Friday despite being requested in 2020. Sounds like the UK government has been sitting on its hands there.
 
bollieboy said:
Those extra booths came into operation on Friday despite being requested in 2020. Sounds like the UK government has been sitting on its hands there.
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They've presumably been there for some time, they just haven't needed to use them until now because traffic was lower.

This is 100% down to the French not sending enough staff to man the booths, almost certainly out of spite.
 
Lost Seasider said:
They've presumably been there for some time, they just haven't needed to use them until now because traffic was lower.

This is 100% down to the French not sending enough staff to man the booths, almost certainly out of spite.
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Well you've obviously made up your mind up. I'd like to see more info before apportioning blame and resorting to a simplistic reason based on national stereotypes.
 
Ffs the French have admitted it, what more facts do you need, they put 12 people on today to try and catch up.
 
bollieboy said:
Well you've obviously made up your mind up. I'd like to see more info before apportioning blame and resorting to a simplistic reason based on national stereotypes.
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What more information do you need?

Credible reports indicate that 4/10 booths were open yesterday, those booths can only be staffed by French Border officials, it is claimed by Dover Port that only 6 out of an expected 15 staff arrived on Friday, that is in line with the number of booths open (3 staff needed for 2 booths) and is therefore likely to be correct.

Are you disputing that the French sent too few staff to properly man the booths? If not the only question is whether this was due to incompetence on their part, or malice, I'm inclined to believe the latter.

And before you suggest the fault might've been with Dover, they knew this was going to be a busy day and would've requested that the booths be fully manned, I don't for one minute think that they tried to get away with manning only 4/10 or requested anything less than the 15 staff they claim they requested.
 
Lost Seasider said:
What more information do you need?

Credible reports indicate that 4/10 booths were open yesterday, those booths can only be staffed by French Border officials, it is claimed by Dover Port that only 6 out of an expected 15 staff arrived on Friday, that is in line with the number of booths open (3 staff needed for 2 booths) and is therefore likely to be correct.

Are you disputing that the French sent too few staff to properly man the booths? If not the only question is whether this was due to incompetence on their part, or malice, I'm inclined to believe the latter.

And before you suggest the fault might've been with Dover, they knew this was going to be a busy day and would've requested that the booths be fully manned, I don't for one minute think that they tried to get away with manning only 4/10 or requested anything less than the 15 staff they claim they requested.
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I'll repeat what I said previously.

You have obviously made your mind up that it was down to malice. I'd like to see more info before apportioning blame and resorting to a simplistic reason based on national stereotypes.
 
bollieboy said:
I'll repeat what I said previously.

You have obviously made your mind up that it was down to malice. I'd like to see more info before apportioning blame and resorting to a simplistic reason based on national stereotypes.
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Nothing to do with national stereotypes. just an observation that Macron, personally, has behaved like this in the past.

At least you seem to accept that it was France who failed to provide sufficient staff, what more information do you need to decide if this was malice or incompetence?
 
Lost Seasider said:
Nothing to do with national stereotypes. just an observation that Macron, personally, has behaved like this in the past.

At least you seem to accept that it was France who failed to provide sufficient staff, what more information do you need to decide if this was malice or incompetence?
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Most balanced reporting putting it down to a large extent to Brexit snd extra checks required. You and the rest voted to end free movement and leave the EU. This is part of it, our movement between countries involves more hassle, especially crossing at Dover. A handful of french immigration officers wont make much difference.
See the link below . https://www.facebook.com/1000010411...2ZgADhgEZT61TC9RMcX5xbnix3StJl/?sfnsn=scwspmo
 
The French Unions have been using Calais/Dover to cause chaos for years and years. I quite admire their direct action.

6 border guards are slow into work and we subsequently have carnage. Get ready for the air traffic control controllers to walk out next week, then we will have the fishermen pissed off about something and on it goes!

Brilliant, inconvenient, but brilliant.
 
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TSSeasider said:
The French Unions have been using Calais/Dover to cause chaos for years and years. I quite admire their direct action.

6 border guards are slow into work and we subsequently have carnage. Get ready for the air traffic control controllers to walk out next week, then we will have the fishermen opposed off about something and on it goes!

Brilliant, inconvenient, but brilliant.
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The French vulnerability is Eurostar, maybe we need to start f***ing around with that in return, also LHD vehicles take longer to process at Dover, so maybe we should prioritize RHD ones.

Essentially I think we have to end the reverse border arrangements at Dover, inconvenient I know, but if the French are going to abuse them it has to be done, if the French want to do the same with Eurostar and start sending over illegals then I think we'll just have to close down the tunnel.
 
Always tangerine said:
Most balanced reporting putting it down to a large extent to Brexit snd extra checks required. You and the rest voted to end free movement and leave the EU. This is part of it, our movement between countries involves more hassle, especially crossing at Dover. A handful of french immigration officers wont make much difference.
See the link below . https://www.facebook.com/1000010411...2ZgADhgEZT61TC9RMcX5xbnix3StJl/?sfnsn=scwspmo
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Any chance of a link to this "most balanced reporting"?
 
Lost Seasider said:
The French vulnerability is Eurostar, maybe we need to start f***ing around with that in return, also LHD vehicles take longer to process at Dover, so maybe we should prioritize RHD ones.

Essentially I think we have to end the reverse border arrangements at Dover, inconvenient I know, but if the French are going to abuse them it has to be done, if the French want to do the same with Eurostar and start sending over illegals then I think we'll just have to close down the tunnel.
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So your solution to the delays is escalation causing more delays. Brilliant.
 
🙄 Nah, the little englander just wants to close the channel tunnel

He simply longs for the days of pounds, shillings and pence, brown socks and sandals and weekends in Whitby
 
Lost Seasider said:
The French vulnerability is Eurostar, maybe we need to start f***ing around with that in return, also LHD vehicles take longer to process at Dover, so maybe we should prioritize RHD ones.

Essentially I think we have to end the reverse border arrangements at Dover, inconvenient I know, but if the French are going to abuse them it has to be done, if the French want to do the same with Eurostar and start sending over illegals then I think we'll just have to close down the tunnel.
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Why don't we just start a war with them? That'll sort it out!
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
Unlike the moderate 'let's close the channel tunnel' course of action that you suggested.
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The airlines are more than capable of replacing it, and I'm only suggesting it as a course of action if the French want to use it as a conduit for illegal migrants.

Ultimately, if the French want to dick around with the borders, they need to learn that it's not a cost free action.
 
Lost Seasider said:
The airlines are more than capable of replacing it, and I'm only suggesting it as a course of action if the French want to use it as a conduit for illegal migrants.

Ultimately, if the French want to dick around with the borders, they need to learn that it's not a cost free action.
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The point is that continually escalating things will just make things worse, which some on here seem to want. It would be better if we just got on with things in a spirit of cooperation as much as is possible with the current arrangements. Imagining a hostile motivation on the part of the French is pure speculation and an attempt to pass responsibility to somebody else. Border crossings will take longer now because every passport has to be stamped and checked - that is what we, the UK, asked for in our 'oven ready' deal. The French are implementing the rules which apply to anyone at an EU border with a third country. They are obliged to do this as an EU member. We asked for the current situation to be implemented and they are doing what we asked.

The migrants seem to be finding their way here via the English channel easily enough without using the channel tunnel, so I don't think that closing it would have the effect that you desire. It would, like Brexit, be damaging to British and French businesses and holidaymakers. The Rwanda policy, as I predicted, has made absolutely no difference to the numbers crossing and now Rwanda have declared that 120 million pays for 200 migrants only (£600,000 per migrant). What a colossal waste of public money. Are there actually any government policies that have been thought through properly?
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
The point is that continually escalating things will just make things worse, which some on here seem to want. It would be better if we just got on with things in a spirit of cooperation as much as is possible with the current arrangements.
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I'm not trying to escalate, but the existing border arrangements aren't working thanks to the French, so I think the custom checks for Dover need to go back to the arrivals side rather than the departures one, and if France wants to reverse the arrangement for Eurostar then I think the answer to that has to be that we're not willing to accept any arrivals via that route.
 
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