Interesting debate on the medias coverage on the racist incidents

JJpool

JJpool

Well-known member
Before anyone comes at me for having the audacity to mention this and post a video, any serious name calling will be reported.

Any abuse was disgusting and any individuals should be dealt with.

Most tweets came from abroad yet it was reported like it was a huge problem in society that isn't reflected by the facts, the Rashford mural was reported on as racist then the coverage when it wasn't was miniscule.

All the positive stuff from the euros was swept away, there's been a lot of community cohesion, like I personally have seen lots of minorities who I don't recall in the past being as involved, but wearing England shirts etc, which I think is fantastic to see that from these communities, football can bring people together.

Quite a fair debate on GB news about this, are many in the media whipping up more of a storm with their coverage?

 
So Paul Embery and Nigel Farage just agreeing with each other on a dedicated Right Wing TV channel is what constitutes “Quite a fair debate”?

It actually wasn’t a ‘debate’ at all, let alone a fair one.

The discussion itself shows a clear sense of bias and this is reflective of the posts that you have chosen to back up your own racially biased arguments.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
So Paul Embery and Nigel Farage just agreeing with each other on a dedicated Right Wing TV channel is what constitutes “Quite a fair debate”?

It actually wasn’t a ‘debate’ at all, let alone a fair one.

The discussion itself shows a clear sense of bias and this is reflective of the posts that you have chosen to back up your own racially biased arguments.
Click to expand...

BFC...................you will find racism in anything. Even if racism was completely eradicated you would find something to whine about. What about trying to focus on the positives for a change instead of keeping the divide going? Nice to see you started another thread to keep it going though, and I'm not referring to this one. 🤣 🤣 Anyway, I'm off on me bike now, ta ta.
 
I don’t find racism in everything at all…I’m simply stating that the clip isn’t a debate, that’s a fact. It was a discussion and a biased discussion at that.

If that’s what constitutes ‘debate’ these days, then it’s hardly surprising most are so closed minded.

Maybe watch some TV that challenges your opinions, rather than serves to reinforce them. Just a thought !
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
So Paul Embery and Nigel Farage just agreeing with each other on a dedicated Right Wing TV channel is what constitutes “Quite a fair debate”?

It actually wasn’t a ‘debate’ at all, let alone a fair one.

The discussion itself shows a clear sense of bias and this is reflective of the posts that you have chosen to back up your own racially biased arguments.
Click to expand...
Thought you'd be the first one along, think Paul made some very fair points.

Funny you attack the channel etc, other media is left wing, who won't discuss a lot of this and they aren't going to reflect on their own coverage are they.

I think its fair to say given the number of tweets was so tiny and from unknown places, to cover it like they did and overlook all other good news from the euros etc and the mis reporting of the rashford mural, lack of clarity on the tweets and their origins was a bit odd.

Its pretty clear to me the media has been irresponsible in their reporting and sensationalism.

I've already said anyone who was found to have made those comments should be dealt with and is disgusting, not sure what more I can say. Is there a real person yet caught?

But it seems people like you are towed along by the left wing media, they say jump, you say how high. I watch BBC, sky and gb.

Shouldn't you be questioning after reporting about the tweets maybe they also could have shown despite 5hw disgusting tweets, how much some communities have come together, surely that's a good thing and message.

Instead they seem to want to push this narrative as far as they can when a miniscule amount of unknown accounts made such tweets, most abroad, but the whole nation is brought down for days by it and tarnished and i think hes right, some people are waiting to jump on the bandwagon and perpetuate a race war a bit like on the US.

Funnily enough BLM when it started was a US thing, it didn't translate to over here in anything like the same way, the facts from the police told us this, but yet it came anyway.
 
southshorepool said:
Paul Emberry shared a platform with Farage as part of the Leave campaign. He's simply just invited his mate on knowing that he'll agree.
Click to expand...
He a regular on gb news on some sections and is a fair minded trade unionist who supported brexit.
 
JJpool said:
Thought you'd be the first one along, think Paul made some very fair points.

Funny you attack the channel etc, other media is left wing, who won't discuss a lot of this and they aren't going to reflect on their own coverage are they.

I think its fair to say given the number of tweets was so tiny and from unknown places, to cover it like they did and overlook all other good news from the euros etc and the mis reporting of the rashford mural, lack of clarity on the tweets and their origins was a bit odd.

Its pretty clear to me the media has been irresponsible in their reporting and sensationalism.

I've already said anyone who was found to have made those comments should be dealt with and is disgusting, not sure what more I can say. Is there a real person yet caught?

But it seems people like you are towed along by the left wing media, they say jump, you say how high. I watch BBC, sky and gb.

Shouldn't you be questioning after reporting about the tweets maybe they also could have shown despite 5hw disgusting tweets, how much some communities have come together, surely that's a good thing and message.

Instead they seem to want to push this narrative as far as they can when a miniscule amount of unknown accounts made such tweets, most abroad, but the whole nation is brought down for days by it and tarnished and i think hes right, some people are waiting to jump on the bandwagon and perpetuate a race war a bit like on the US.

Funnily enough BLM when it started was a US thing, it didn't translate to over here in anything like the same way, the facts from the police told us this, but yet it came anyway.
Click to expand...
Whether he made fair points or not is irrelevant… It isn’t a debate mate… It’s an echo chamber

Had that discussion taken place on the ‘left wing’ BBC, you would have had people with opposing views actually challenging each other’s opinion.

What’s the point in hearing one side of a story?
 
Last edited:
Lost Seasider said:
BBC headlining on racist online abuse directed at Hamilton after yesterday's GP win: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/57885011

No mention anywhere that almost certainly all of this came from accounts outside of the UK.
Click to expand...
Exactly, but come on you should know posting facts only leads to those labeling you on here.

You would think the virtue signalling posters on here who care so much would want to address this issue properly.

Yes call out the abuse and anyone involved is severely dealt with. But also call out the source of the tweets, the number, the accounts they come from, American and Italian anime accounts I believe last time, WTF is that all about, bots?

The media is a big part of the problem at times.

By not addressing it fully the left wing lot are only helping further the narrative that only leads to more division.

Surely that not what any genuine person wants.
 
JJpool said:
Yes call out the abuse and anyone involved is severely dealt with. But also call out the source of the tweets, the number, the accounts they come from, American and Italian anime accounts I believe last time, WTF is that all about, bots?
Click to expand...
The way we're reacting, it could well be Russian/Chinese state actors trying to make trouble.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Whether he made fair points or not is irrelevant… It isn’t a debate mate… It’s an echo chamber

Had that discussion taken place on the ‘left wing’ BBC, you would have had people with opposing views actually challenging each other’s opinion.

What’s the point in hearing one side of a story?
Click to expand...
So it matters not if someone makes fair points only of they appear on a channel you deemed ok? Gotcha.

The BBC won't even have the debate.

I posted a video on the other thread of a sky news interview with the met chief who put out facts about policing and how In his view BLM were distorting the truth at the time to create division. Got called racist for that, a post liked by you.
 
JJpool said:
He a regular on gb news on some sections and is a fair minded trade unionist who supported brexit.
Click to expand...
And some might argue that he's not fair minded (I don't know because I don't know enough about him)...but as BFC x3 has pointed out, we'll never know because they won't invite anyone on who might challenge their view. It could be argued that it was three people who have never experienced racial abuse giving views on this and that those views may or may not be vaild.
 
Last edited:
JJpool said:
So it matters not if someone makes fair points only of they appear on a channel you deemed ok? Gotcha.

The BBC won't even have the debate.
Click to expand...
That is nonsense, and you know it. The BBC gets it in the neck precisely BECAUSE it bends over backwards to be fair and allow all sides a voice.

I think you make a fair point about the media generally, and especially print media, most of which has an political axe to grind. But as far as social media is concerned - it is us who generate most of the content. If it is ignorant and nasty (much of it is), we have nobody to blame but ourselves. I know it is manipulated to some degree - which is why the point about reading more widely around topics you are interested in all the more important.
 
JJpool said:
So it matters not if someone makes fair points only of they appear on a channel you deemed ok? Gotcha.

The BBC won't even have the debate.

I posted a video on the other thread of a sky news interview with the met chief who put out facts about policing and how In his view BLM were distorting the truth at the time to create division. Got called racist for that, a post liked by you.
Click to expand...
If you are going to describe something as a 'debate' and it isn't by any sense of the definition 'a debate', then of course it matters not. How can it matter? He can sit there making the apparently 'fairest' points in the world, but without anyone sat there with a different view to challenge him, it simply isn't a debate...It's just a one sided, politically biased discussion.

Without two opposing opinions it is impossible for the viewing public to determine which argument / side of the debate they should give most weight to.

On the other post, you posted a set of distorted and racially biased facts to try and support a racially biased argument.

I think if anyone on here could benefit from a dose of left wing media, you are that man.
 
Last edited:
southshorepool said:
And some might argue that he's not fair minded (I don't know because I don't know enough about him)...but as BFC x3 has pointed out, we'll never know because they won't invite anyone on who might challenge their view. It could be argued that it was three people who have never experienced racial abuse giving views on this and that those views may or may not be vaild.
Click to expand...
I won't admit to knowing much about him, but I take the fair approach and listen to what he says and he seems fair enough to me.

But to me I hadn't actually thought about the media reaction this much, now I have it does seem way ott for a few unknown twitter accounts to bring the whole country into a state of race crisis. Also to not announce the tiny number of them and the fact most were abroad is not giving people the full message.

I'm sure there were some genuine tossers posting stuff, but also maybe bots with god knows what agenda and for whom.

It honestly wouldn't surprise me if the players mentioned Russia etc. Or even groups like Antifa or others to further create division and further their own goals.
 
Dollar Thief said:
As Michael Holding pointed out, there is even racism between black people.

But all we ever hear on the news is racism to black people from white people.

You never hear of racism from black on white or black on black.
Click to expand...
If your second paragraph is true. We’d never have heard the first paragraph.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
If you are going to describe something as a 'debate' and it isn't by any sense of the definition 'a debate', then of course it matters not. How can it matter? He can sit there making the apparently 'fairest' points in the world, but without anyone sat there with a different view to challenge him, it simply isn't a debate...It's just a one sided, politically biased discussion.

Without two opposing opinions it is impossible for the viewing public to determine which argument / side of the debate they should give most weight to.

On the other post, you posted a set of distorted and racially biased facts to try and support a racially biased argument.

I think if anyone on here could benefit from a dose of left wing media, you are that man.
Click to expand...
OK probably should have said discussion, still worth thinking about the incredibly negative way this has been handled without all the other info and good news of cohesion because of the football.

I've watched BBC loads, some of the stuff is fair some has their slant on it. But they aren't going to analyse their own coverage of the last few days and lack of info they failed to provide.

After stirring everyone up with the rashford mural graffiti was it ever undone when it was just some non racial abuse any player who misses a pen sadly gets.

Bad news spreads and sticks. Its a bit like when someone is accused of serious crimes by a paper, they may issue a retraction but hardly anyone reads it and the news is out there, they are always associated with that crime even if it was false.

As for that post I somehow drifted onto why this started and police so I though I better provide some figures I found to back it up. If accurate in part explained why some black people were disproportionately stopped in London. Because a large majority of black people live in London in the uk where stop and search is more frequent. Also because they committed nearly half of the car crime according to the stats.
 
JJpool said:
Thought you'd be the first one along, think Paul made some very fair points.

Funny you attack the channel etc, other media is left wing, who won't discuss a lot of this and they aren't going to reflect on their own coverage are they.

I think its fair to say given the number of tweets was so tiny and from unknown places, to cover it like they did and overlook all other good news from the euros etc and the mis reporting of the rashford mural, lack of clarity on the tweets and their origins was a bit odd.

Its pretty clear to me the media has been irresponsible in their reporting and sensationalism.

I've already said anyone who was found to have made those comments should be dealt with and is disgusting, not sure what more I can say. Is there a real person yet caught?

But it seems people like you are towed along by the left wing media, they say jump, you say how high. I watch BBC, sky and gb.

Shouldn't you be questioning after reporting about the tweets maybe they also could have shown despite 5hw disgusting tweets, how much some communities have come together, surely that's a good thing and message.

Instead they seem to want to push this narrative as far as they can when a miniscule amount of unknown accounts made such tweets, most abroad, but the whole nation is brought down for days by it and tarnished and i think hes right, some people are waiting to jump on the bandwagon and perpetuate a race war a bit like on the US.

Funnily enough BLM when it started was a US thing, it didn't translate to over here in anything like the same way, the facts from the police told us this, but yet it came anyway.
Click to expand...
You seem to have an agenda JJP and it's not one I'm liking the look of.
 
coppiceman said:
That is nonsense, and you know it. The BBC gets it in the neck precisely BECAUSE it bends over backwards to be fair and allow all sides a voice.

I think you make a fair point about the media generally, and especially print media, most of which has an political axe to grind. But as far as social media is concerned - it is us who generate most of the content. If it is ignorant and nasty (much of it is), we have nobody to blame but ourselves. I know it is manipulated to some degree - which is why the point about reading more widely around topics you are interested in all the more important.
Click to expand...
Well at times some stuff is ok, some they won't discuss, but they won't analyse their own coverage and lack of info they should have provided as context with it.

For me the news should have been reported but with the added info of tweets from abroad, tiny number, weird accounts etc. To give the full picture.

Also tell is about the success stories also.
 
Last edited:
1966_and_all_that said:
You seem to have an agenda JJP and it's not one I'm liking the look of.
Click to expand...
Whats that then? An agenda to see the truth about the situation maybe, small number of idiots, weird twitter accounts, most abroad.

News went absolutely mad for days with a big agenda not me.

If you cant see that then its worrying.

What part dont you agree with? BLM when it begun was a copycat to the us but without the same issues here in the police. The facts prove that.

Were nothing like the us for race.
 
Dollar Thief said:
As Michael Holding pointed out, there is even racism between black people.

But all we ever hear on the news is racism to black people from white people.

You never hear of racism from black on white or black on black.
Click to expand...
It does indeed happen but won't create the same headlines and frenzy, it wouldn't stay top of the news if it did get there as it doesn't fit the narrative the left media want to portray.
 
JJpool said:
Whats that then? An agenda to see the truth about the situation maybe, small number of idiots, weird twitter accounts, most abroad.

News went absolutely mad for days with a big agenda not me.

If you cant see that then its worrying.

What part dont you agree with? BLM when it begun was a copycat to the us but without the same issues here in the police. The facts prove that.

Were nothing like the us for race.
Click to expand...
Don't worry about me. I'm OK in my own skin. I have doubts when people seem to insist on having proof of things. I have doubts when people put so much effort into trying to disprove evidence of racial incidents. I repeat. You seem to have an agenda that I don't like.
 
JJpool said:
OK probably should have said discussion, still worth thinking about the incredibly negative way this has been handled without all the other info and good news of cohesion because of the football.

I've watched BBC loads, some of the stuff is fair some has their slant on it. But they aren't going to analyse their own coverage of the last few days and lack of info they failed to provide.

After stirring everyone up with the rashford mural graffiti was it ever undone when it was just some non racial abuse any player who misses a pen sadly gets.

Bad news spreads and sticks. Its a bit like when someone is accused of serious crimes by a paper, they may issue a retraction but hardly anyone reads it and the news is out there, they are always associated with that crime even if it was false.

As for that post I somehow drifted onto why this started and police so I though I better provide some figures I found to back it up. If accurate in part explained why some black people were disproportionately stopped in London. Because a large majority of black people live in London in the uk where stop and search is more frequent. Also because they committed nearly half of the car crime according to the stats.
Click to expand...
The defacing of the Rashford mural would have been reported either way. It was a really disgusting thing to do.

The police statement says that the actual defacement did not have any obviously racist language but they were keeping an open mind on the motivation. Unless there is supporting evidence, when the culprit is found, to prove otherwise then it is unlikely to be able to state that there was a racist intent or not.

The abuse of England players following the final defeat is a newsworthy story, notwithstanding the racist element. The abuse of Beckham in 1998 was certainly a major news item for a period of time.

I do wonder about the motives of people who seem to want to minimise the reporting of racist acts and their impacts. The reporting of it doesn't have any impact on myself (and I am sure the vast majority of the population) so why do some people seem to get so riled by it ?
 
l
JJpool said:
OK probably should have said discussion, still worth thinking about the incredibly negative way this has been handled without all the other info and good news of cohesion because of the football.

I've watched BBC loads, some of the stuff is fair some has their slant on it. But they aren't going to analyse their own coverage of the last few days and lack of info they failed to provide.

After stirring everyone up with the rashford mural graffiti was it ever undone when it was just some non racial abuse any player who misses a pen sadly gets.

Bad news spreads and sticks. Its a bit like when someone is accused of serious crimes by a paper, they may issue a retraction but hardly anyone reads it and the news is out there, they are always associated with that crime even if it was false.

As for that post I somehow drifted onto why this started and police so I though I better provide some figures I found to back it up. If accurate in part explained why some black people were disproportionately stopped in London. Because a large majority of black people live in London in the uk where stop and search is more frequent. Also because they committed nearly half of the car crime according to the stats.
Click to expand...
Of course it’s worth thinking about the immediate we incredible negative reaction. It’s also with thinking about how quickly that narrative has changed too.

I think the BBC has shown balance on the subject tbh. In fact I think they are generally the single most balanced broadcaster on the planet.

The Rashford mural has been covered more since the initial outrage than it was in the initial aftermath… It’s totally false to try and suggest that a correction hasn’t occurred…

I’m not sure the bad news has stuck at all… There was an initial outcry in response to the reporting and immediately after the final and things have since returned to equilibrium.

The reference to crime is racially biased. It views crime statistics through the prism of race alone, when a whole range of social and economic factors might come in to play….
 
1966_and_all_that said:
Don't worry about me. I'm OK in my own skin. I have doubts when people seem to insist on having proof of things. I have doubts when people put so much effort into trying to disprove evidence of racial incidents. I repeat. You seem to have an agenda that I don't like.
Click to expand...
So am I thanks.

What's wrong with proof, I know people like to push things on here but surely proof helps settle things? Or are we in a post fact world? If i claim something I try to back ot up with some facts.

I'm not trying to disprove, hence I said a tiny minority of idiots, which is true given how many watched that final.

But also according to Instagram themselves most accounts were abroad. Surely that's a relevant point.

Also as said some American and Italian anime accounts to tweeted apparently. That does seem a bit weird.

Has anyone actually been arrested? Identified? Any real peolle? Genuine question.

I'm not downplaying any genuine tweets from idiots, they will need sorting.

But I am concerned about the reaction from media for the scale fo the problem.

My worry is, its almost impossible to stop a random account tweeting and it only takes 1 and suddenly the headline x has suffered racist abuse.

It brings the players down, the black community and white community for different reasons, brings the fans down, 99.99% of whom are decent people, maybe with different political views, but decent.

If such a tiny tiny minority can ruin such a good football campaign and cause this outrage, it doesn't bode well going forward.

Which is why I think tracing those accounts is key and providing full disclosure on the scale of the problem.

If they are all genuine ok let's find out, if they are bots or whatever, a mix of all, I'd like to know.

I think it would be helpful to the whole country to know the real extent of the problem.

Its good that people want to eradicate racism, but its not good if some entity is stirring it up too and it could be impossible to stop.
 
bollieboy said:
The defacing of the Rashford mural would have been reported either way. It was a really disgusting thing to do.

The police statement says that the actual defacement did not have any obviously racist language but they were keeping an open mind on the motivation. Unless there is supporting evidence, when the culprit is found, to prove otherwise then it is unlikely to be able to state that there was a racist intent or not.

The abuse of England players following the final defeat is a newsworthy story, notwithstanding the racist element. The abuse of Beckham in 1998 was certainly a major news item for a period of time.

I do wonder about the motives of people who seem to want to minimise the reporting of racist acts and their impacts. The reporting of it doesn't have any impact on myself (and I am sure the vast majority of the population) so why do some people seem to get so riled by it ?
Click to expand...
As mentioned 3 days worth of reporting with the full facts of the tweets and their origins etc.

No good news of cohesion from the football which has happened.

Report it, but surely add in all info, but bad news sells more.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
l

Of course it’s worth thinking about the immediate we incredible negative reaction. It’s also with thinking about how quickly that narrative has changed too.

I think the BBC has shown balance on the subject tbh. In fact I think they are generally the single most balanced broadcaster on the planet.

The Rashford mural has been covered more since the initial outrage than it was in the initial aftermath… It’s totally false to try and suggest that a correction hasn’t occurred…

I’m not sure the bad news has stuck at all… There was an initial outcry in response to the reporting and immediately after the final and things have since returned to equilibrium.

The reference to crime is racially biased. It views crime statistics through the prism of race alone, when a whole range of social and economic factors might come in to play….
Click to expand...
People turned up protesting and covered it in messages, I dont remember them doing that for Gareth or Becks? They got slaughtered.

People thought he'd been targeted on the mural.

Of course its broken down through race, thats the point of the figures, to show crimes committed per group.

If you want to try to explain why one group gets stopped more than another and you say x group commits more crimes in this area, then its not really a surprise if they get stopped more.
 
JJpool said:
So am I thanks.

What's wrong with proof, I know people like to push things on here but surely proof helps settle things? Or are we in a post fact world? If i claim something I try to back ot up with some facts.

I'm not trying to disprove, hence I said a tiny minority of idiots, which is true given how many watched that final.

But also according to Instagram themselves most accounts were abroad. Surely that's a relevant point.

Also as said some American and Italian anime accounts to tweeted apparently. That does seem a bit weird.

Has anyone actually been arrested? Identified? Any real peolle? Genuine question.

I'm not downplaying any genuine tweets from idiots, they will need sorting.

But I am concerned about the reaction from media for the scale fo the problem.

My worry is, its almost impossible to stop a random account tweeting and it only takes 1 and suddenly the headline x has suffered racist abuse.

It brings the players down, the black community and white community for different reasons, brings the fans down, 99.99% of whom are decent people, maybe with different political views, but decent.

If such a tiny tiny minority can ruin such a good football campaign and cause this outrage, it doesn't bode well going forward.

Which is why I think tracing those accounts is key and providing full disclosure on the scale of the problem.

If they are all genuine ok let's find out, if they are bots or whatever, a mix of all, I'd like to know.

I think it would be helpful to the whole country to know the real extent of the problem.

Its good that people want to eradicate racism, but its not good if some entity is stirring it up too and it could be impossible to stop.
Click to expand...
They are still looking for the people who abused Southgate,Waddle,Lampard,Gerrade etc have Ince and Vassell ever played the racial abuse card at missing a penalty.
 
JJpool said:
Thought you'd be the first one along, think Paul made some very fair points.

Funny you attack the channel etc, other media is left wing, who won't discuss a lot of this and they aren't going to reflect on their own coverage are they.

I think its fair to say given the number of tweets was so tiny and from unknown places, to cover it like they did and overlook all other good news from the euros etc and the mis reporting of the rashford mural, lack of clarity on the tweets and their origins was a bit odd.

Its pretty clear to me the media has been irresponsible in their reporting and sensationalism.

I've already said anyone who was found to have made those comments should be dealt with and is disgusting, not sure what more I can say. Is there a real person yet caught?

But it seems people like you are towed along by the left wing media, they say jump, you say how high. I watch BBC, sky and gb.

Shouldn't you be questioning after reporting about the tweets maybe they also could have shown despite 5hw disgusting tweets, how much some communities have come together, surely that's a good thing and message.

Instead they seem to want to push this narrative as far as they can when a miniscule amount of unknown accounts made such tweets, most abroad, but the whole nation is brought down for days by it and tarnished and i think hes right, some people are waiting to jump on the bandwagon and perpetuate a race war a bit like on the US.

Funnily enough BLM when it started was a US thing, it didn't translate to over here in anything like the same way, the facts from the police told us this, but yet it came anyway.
Click to expand...

There's no left wing TV news, if there is can you let me know because I quite fancy watching it, thanks.
 
todayistheday said:
They are still looking for the people who abused Southgate,Waddle,Lampard,Gerrade etc have Ince and Vassell ever played the racial abuse card at missing a penalty.
Click to expand...
Ince has spoken at some length about the racist abuse he received, especially in Italy.

Sorry, 'played the racial abuse card'.
 
OK... I'll try one more time...

JJpool said:
People turned up protesting and covered it in messages, I dont remember them doing that for Gareth or Becks? They got slaughtered.

People thought he'd been targeted on the mural.
Click to expand...
So what is your point here? Do you not think there is a reason for that?

He was initially targeted for some online racist abuse and then someone defaced the mural with some 'non-racist' abuse. He's clearly well respected within his community and it's not difficult to understand why as te lad is a fantastic role model and has obviously been very influencial with the Childrens Lunch initiative. Becks wasn't particularly popular prior to his sending off and it was a different time in any case, not that he didn't go on to be universally loved in any case...

Like I say, I'm struggling to understand what point you are making.... Do you think it's OK for someone to be the subject of racist abuse on line as long as other people make up for it by decorating a mural to show their support?

JJpool said:
Of course its broken down through race, thats the point of the figures, to show crimes committed per group.

If you want to try to explain why one group gets stopped more than another and you say x group commits more crimes in this area, then its not really a surprise if they get stopped more.
Click to expand...

So do you think that any other factors might also come into play with regard to Black men in particular and crime or do you simply think that Black people have more of a propensity to crime than White people?

Do you think it might be reasonable to conclude perhaps that Black people might also figure disproportionately in areas such as poverty, broken family circumstances, poor housing & social conditions, low income, poor education etc...?

Do you not also recognise that figure like being 20-30 times more likely to be stopped and searched, when you are statistically no more likely to be found to have committed a crime than a white person, based upon stop and search statistics, might demonstrate a racial bias?

I've linked a couple of different videos for you HERE and HERE. I'm sure you couldn;t describe Jordan Peterson as 'Left Wing', though he does give some interesting insight into why young men, might behave in a certain way, based upon their socio-economic circumstances. The second is Akala... You might well spend some time listening to his address to the Oxford Union to perhaps gain a better insight into what the world might look like frm the perspective of young Black males.

What impact do you think that type of disproportionate targeting of Black Men for stop and search might have on relationships and attitudes between the Black Community and the Police?

What about acknowledged atatistics from the Ministry of Justice report that concluded that Black & Asian people were disproportionately committed to trial, when compared to whites. Black by some 60% and Asians more than double?


It seems to me that you are simply looking for excuses or reasons to reaffirm opinions that you have already formed..... I could be wrong of course, but I get that impression from your particular choice of media, which it seems to me reflects a fairly narrow scope of vision. I mean given your apparent political bias, GB News is really just going to tell you what you want to hear, as opposed to informing or challenging your opinions..... Of course you might not wish to challenge your opinions and be happy with them as they are and that's great, but I struggle to see the value in that.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
There's no left wing TV news, if there is can you let me know because I quite fancy watching it, thanks.
Click to expand...
I dunno, the BBC is left leaning.

But its quite funny though and shows our own biases we all have, as you get some on the left calling it right wing, lol, for all the times it had farage on for eg and you get the right calling it left.

I think though the way it sets its narrative is predominantly left.

Gb news must be doing something right with its content and being fair...

I say this because the worst attacks I've seen people throw at it were about ratings, poor quality production and boring.

When they are the insults you know its been pretty fair imo, otherwise they usualy get dogs abuse from certain sections.

The whole left right is divisive tbh, I just think common sense should prevail and being able to call things out without being labelled so quickly these days.

I think online helps that, as you wouldn't say something to someone so bluntly in person as much as people do online. Youd listen more and have a softer approach, put points across.

Whereas online you never know how something is said, it can depend how you read it sometimes.

Just my thoughts.
 
JJpool said:
I dunno, the BBC is left leaning.

But its quite funny though and shows our own biases we all have, as you get some on the left calling it right wing, lol, for all the times it had farage on for eg and you get the right calling it left.

I think though the way it sets its narrative is predominantly left.

Gb news must be doing something right with its content and being fair...

I say this because the worst attacks I've seen people throw at it were about ratings, poor quality production and boring.

When they are the insults you know its been pretty fair imo, otherwise they usualy get dogs abuse from certain sections.

The whole left right is divisive tbh, I just think common sense should prevail and being able to call things out without being labelled so quickly these days.

I think online helps that, as you wouldn't say something to someone so bluntly in person as much as people do online. Youd listen more and have a softer approach, put points across.

Whereas online you never know how something is said, it can depend how you read it sometimes.

Just my thoughts.
Click to expand...
GB News is just really bad and very obviously biased TV.... You only have to listen to the way the anchor's frame things to get a sense of where they are at...It's so biased it almost feels like satire

I do appreciate the criticism levelled at the BBC, but I don't think a Fox News equivalent is the answer....
 
The BBC is decried by the right and the left more or less equally. The Corbynista left and even the starmerites will give you chapter and verse on how the left doesn't get a fair hearing and narratives are constructed with bias. Just as claimed above but from the opposite perspective.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
OK... I'll try one more time...


So what is your point here? Do you not think there is a reason for that?

He was initially targeted for some online racist abuse and then someone defaced the mural with some 'non-racist' abuse. He's clearly well respected within his community and it's not difficult to understand why as te lad is a fantastic role model and has obviously been very influencial with the Childrens Lunch initiative. Becks wasn't particularly popular prior to his sending off and it was a different time in any case, not that he didn't go on to be universally loved in any case...

Like I say, I'm struggling to understand what point you are making.... Do you think it's OK for someone to be the subject of racist abuse on line as long as other people make up for it by decorating a mural to show their support?



So do you think that any other factors might also come into play with regard to Black men in particular and crime or do you simply think that Black people have more of a propensity to crime than White people?

Do you think it might be reasonable to conclude perhaps that Black people might also figure disproportionately in areas such as poverty, broken family circumstances, poor housing & social conditions, low income, poor education etc...?

Do you not also recognise that figure like being 20-30 times more likely to be stopped and searched, when you are statistically no more likely to be found to have committed a crime than a white person, based upon stop and search statistics, might demonstrate a racial bias?

I've linked a couple of different videos for you HERE and HERE. I'm sure you couldn;t describe Jordan Peterson as 'Left Wing', though he does give some interesting insight into why young men, might behave in a certain way, based upon their socio-economic circumstances. The second is Akala... You might well spend some time listening to his address to the Oxford Union to perhaps gain a better insight into what the world might look like frm the perspective of young Black males.

What impact do you think that type of disproportionate targeting of Black Men for stop and search might have on relationships and attitudes between the Black Community and the Police?

What about acknowledged atatistics from the Ministry of Justice report that concluded that Black & Asian people were disproportionately committed to trial, when compared to whites. Black by some 60% and Asians more than double?


It seems to me that you are simply looking for excuses or reasons to reaffirm opinions that you have already formed..... I could be wrong of course, but I get that impression from your particular choice of media, which it seems to me reflects a fairly narrow scope of vision. I mean given your apparent political bias, GB News is really just going to tell you what you want to hear, as opposed to informing or challenging your opinions..... Of course you might not wish to challenge your opinions and be happy with them as they are and that's great, but I struggle to see the value in that.
Click to expand...
Of course people see the tweet news and then that and thought clealry its racial.

But surely the news, once they knew it had been defaced, someone must have seen the words 'useless bastard' or whatever it was.

Surely then with proper reporting it should have been clear it wasn't racial from the off?

Maybe people just put 2 and 2 together and it spread without all the facts spreading, Idk.

"Like I say, I'm struggling to understand what point you are making.... Do you think it's OK for someone to be the subject of racist abuse on line as long as other people make up for it by decorating a mural to show their support?"

Not sure what your on about here I've never said that its ok anywhere. The players shouldn't have had to suffer anything.

Its brought them down, us down, is demeaning. Again love to know how big the problem is as with twitter etc its hard to tell.

Ahh so basically my choice of news of gb news, (BBC and sky remember also) is not as good as yours.

Actually they cover stuff others don't delve into, as said I watch and read BBC and sky. I read all sorts of articles that pop up doesn't matter really.

The point is not that there isn't reasons why that community, being dealt bad cards for years etc due to pre existing race issues with their parents generation in some cases maybe.

But that a community in an area, for whatever reason got them to this point, is now committing more crimes according to stats taken as facts, don't be surprised when they get stopped more.

Its very hard to break those cycles of poverty indeed.

I'm only saying what the police are saying that they respond to what's presented to them. If thats any certain group I really couldn't care, if white peolle wearing hoods in an area is the main threat for crime id expect all of such type to be stopped. Its how policing works. Hood wearers won't like it of course but you cant please everyone and keep them safe.

Its why its so hard now, as the ex chief said, officers soon realise dealing with some of the community can put their jobs at risk if they get labelled and he said they now largely leave Black knife crime alone because of it, which is a worrying statement if true given knife crime in London.

Its not an easy job and I think if we did it we'd realise.
 
JJpool said:
Of course people see the tweet news and then that and thought clealry its racial.

But surely the news, once they knew it had been defaced, someone must have seen the words 'useless bastard' or whatever it was.

Surely then with proper reporting it should have been clear it wasn't racial from the off?

Maybe people just put 2 and 2 together and it spread without all the facts spreading, Idk.
Click to expand...
OK.... So was any misunderstanding not corrected pretty quickly? I mean it certainly didn't go on for days...I'm pretty sure there were reports confirming that MR thing was non-racial as soon as the Police released the statement to that effect.

As I say I'm struggling to see what point you are trying to make...?
JJpool said:
Ahh so basically my choice of news of gb news, (BBC and sky remember also) is not as good as yours.

Actually they cover stuff others don't delve into, as said I watch and read BBC and sky. I read all sorts of articles that pop up doesn't matter really.
Click to expand...
Your choice is fine... I was merely observing that it is unlikely to force you to think, given it is essentially telling you what you already believe to be true.
JJpool said:
The point is not that there isn't reasons why that community, being dealt bad cards for years etc due to pre existing race issues with their parents generation in some cases maybe.

But that a community in an area, for whatever reason got them to this point, is now committing more crimes according to stats taken as facts, don't be surprised when they get stopped more.

Its very hard to break those cycles of poverty indeed.

I'm only saying what the police are saying that they respond to what's presented to them. If thats any certain group I really couldn't care, if white peolle wearing hoods in an area is the main threat for crime id expect all of such type to be stopped. Its how policing works. Hood wearers won't like it of course but you cant please everyone and keep them safe.

Its why its so hard now, as the ex chief said, officers soon realise dealing with some of the community can put their jobs at risk if they get labelled and he said they now largely leave Black knife crime alone because of it, which is a worrying statement if true given knife crime in London.

Its not an easy job and I think if we did it we'd realise.
Click to expand...

Sorry you've lost me here....

There have still been acknowledged disparities within the criminal justice system... So the reasons given for increased stop and search etc... do not stand up to scrutiny.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
GB News is just really bad and very obviously biased TV.... You only have to listen to the way the anchor's frame things to get a sense of where they are at...It's so biased it almost feels like satire

I do appreciate the criticism levelled at the BBC, but I don't think a Fox News equivalent is the answer....
Click to expand...
There has been some lesser news and some crap.

But I quite like the good news section, might not mean a lot in the wider world but some is good news for jobs, good stories that you dont always hear.

I dont think its as biased as you say.

Quite a few times I've though ahh its quite refreshing and you dont always see that covered and the previously dour BBC presenter or whoever is showing their personality and allowed to express their opinions.

Its amazing how many are more normal.
 
JJpool said:
There has been some lesser news and some crap.

But I quite like the good news section, might not mean a lot in the wider world but some is good news for jobs, good stories that you dont always hear.

I dont think its as biased as you say.

Quite a few times I've though ahh its quite refreshing and you dont always see that covered and the previously dour BBC presenter or whoever is showing their personality and allowed to express their opinions.

Its amazing how many are more normal.
Click to expand...
I suppose we've been very lucky in the UK with the overall quality of our broadcasters and the standards that they uphold. I've only been to the USA on one occasion and the lack of proper control over broadcasting standards was the one thing that stood out.... It literally is a free for all, where pretty much anything goes.

I'm just used to anchors and presenters being impartial and there being a sense of balance. I struggle to see what value there is in the kind of propagandist type of approach, but each to their own...I suppose you have to try and pick your way through it.
 
JJpool said:
I dunno, the BBC is left leaning.

But its quite funny though and shows our own biases we all have, as you get some on the left calling it right wing, lol, for all the times it had farage on for eg and you get the right calling it left.

I think though the way it sets its narrative is predominantly left.

Gb news must be doing something right with its content and being fair...

I say this because the worst attacks I've seen people throw at it were about ratings, poor quality production and boring.

When they are the insults you know its been pretty fair imo, otherwise they usualy get dogs abuse from certain sections.

The whole left right is divisive tbh, I just think common sense should prevail and being able to call things out without being labelled so quickly these days.

I think online helps that, as you wouldn't say something to someone so bluntly in person as much as people do online. Youd listen more and have a softer approach, put points across.

Whereas online you never know how something is said, it can depend how you read it sometimes.

Just my thoughts.
Click to expand...
I think in these digital times people follow the news they want to hear with the slant they like, so when they see the BBC it naturally feels in the opposite direction, it's pretty neutral and I wouldn't describe it as having left or right bias.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
I think in these digital times people follow the news they want to hear with the slant they like, so when they see the BBC it naturally feels in the opposite direction, it's pretty neutral and I wouldn't describe it as having left or right bias.
Click to expand...
It, certainly didn't want to leave the eu, has a lot of left wing comedy shows, have I got news for you is funny, but left leaning, there are lots of examples out there.

Watching shows on the BBC after brexit was like watching a funeral, you could see lots were shell-shocked.

BBC IS a platform for leftwingers - Study finds huge BBC bias in comedy shows | UK | News | Express.co.uk

AN in-depth study of comedy on the BBC has supported concerns that its taxpayer funded programs have become a platform for leftwingers.
www.express.co.uk www.express.co.uk

Weve had presenters sneering at the flag.

This is what I found in 10 minutes.

If even the BBC’s ‘bias investigator’ is biased, it's time they admitted what they are: A British CNN

www.rt.com

BBC confession: How broadcaster's director general ADMITTED 'massive left-wing bias' | UK | News | Express.co.uk

BBC BIAS has long been an accusation thrown from both sides of the political spectrum, but former director-general Mark Thompson revealed the extent of a 'left-wing bias' of the corporation in the past during an unearthed interview.
www.express.co.uk www.express.co.uk

www.independent.co.uk

John Humphrys accuses ‘thought police’ BBC bosses of pushing ‘liberal-left bias’ into coverage

Days after he bowed out from flagship ‘Today’ programme, BBC star lets loose on former bosses
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk

Nelson McCausland: Why left-wing bias at the BBC raises questions of transparency and balance at the broadcaster

The recent BBC Panorama programme, Has the Government failed to protect the NHS?, certainly provoked a lot of controversy, not so much about the NHS but about the BBC itself. The programme was built around a series of contributions from workers in the NHS and all the contributors were very...
m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk

www.thesun.co.uk

Why is the BBC spending £3.8billion of our licence fee money spreading fake left-wing news?

WITH its usual smugness, the BBC declared at the end of last year that it was on a mission “to counter fake news” by standing up “for trust, accuracy, and integrity.” Yet, when it comes to dodgy co…
www.thesun.co.uk

We know its certainly not right wing, that's plain to see, it may try and be centre and balanced but certainly can lean to the so more left than right for me.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
OK.... So was any misunderstanding not corrected pretty quickly? I mean it certainly didn't go on for days...I'm pretty sure there were reports confirming that MR thing was non-racial as soon as the Police released the statement to that effect.

As I say I'm struggling to see what point you are trying to make...?

Your choice is fine... I was merely observing that it is unlikely to force you to think, given it is essentially telling you what you already believe to be true.


Sorry you've lost me here....

There have still been acknowledged disparities within the criminal justice system... So the reasons given for increased stop and search etc... do not stand up to scrutiny.
Click to expand...
Erm.. it appeared to take 3 days, one look at the word would surely have told them.

Look at the timeline, the original was also on the 13th I think as the title changes now, but this tweet hasn't been.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1415044028673007617

3 days later... does it take 3 days to read the wall or find out what it said... come on....

https://twitter.com/x/status/1416049758616100866

Sorry i don't believe that's the best they can do.

About your last point I posted some figures I didn't invent them, there is reason but maybe thats part of why, maybe police have other reason, I've no idea, but to me the stats back up why it could happen, which is also the reason the police give, could be something else but occams razor comes to mind.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top