Is anybody keeping their eyes on the bill or is it irrelevant

Bisphamtang

Well-known member
I am no economist and have always considered myself left of centre,been in trade union etc but I'm having some issues with how this will be paid for
But labour and my union UNITE are getting me down - some examples

Extend furlough
Pay everyone with positive test £500
Cancel increase in council tax
Give public sector staff at least 5% increase ( I work in the NHS)
Increase foreign aid
Make significant temporary increases universal credit permanent
Increase support for business aviation etc etc but you get



Coupled with don't raise tax or national insurance

I can't vote Tory it's just the way I am wired and they have managed this crisis poorly at times and cost lives

But this is a unbelievable debt we and other countries are running up
I just don't know if this mantra of keep giving more is sustainable or helpful

I fully expect significant increases in personal taxation, VAT and corporation tax which is fine but when this is over ,and it will end ,will everyone be happy with this

Not trying to have a avftt spat and dont have a solution just musing

NB I think we should do all we can to save lives ,protect the NHS from going under but just when I constantly hear the party I am aligned to respond to every twist and turn with - spend more I scratch my my balding head
Also I worked through austerity and saw them clapping the bote not to raise nurses salaries- I know how low they can go

Could be I'm just becoming a grumpy old fella but I do wonder about the young more than my own age group
 
I am no economist and have always considered myself left of centre,been in trade union etc but I'm having some issues with how this will be paid for
But labour and my union UNITE are getting me down - some examples

Extend furlough
Pay everyone with positive test £500
Cancel increase in council tax
Give public sector staff at least 5% increase ( I work in the NHS)
Increase foreign aid
Make significant temporary increases universal credit permanent
Increase support for business aviation etc etc but you get



Coupled with don't raise tax or national insurance

I can't vote Tory it's just the way I am wired and they have managed this crisis poorly at times and cost lives

But this is a unbelievable debt we and other countries are running up
I just don't know if this mantra of keep giving more is sustainable or helpful

I fully expect significant increases in personal taxation, VAT and corporation tax which is fine but when this is over ,and it will end ,will everyone be happy with this

Not trying to have a avftt spat and dont have a solution just musing

NB I think we should do all we can to save lives ,protect the NHS from going under but just when I constantly hear the party I am aligned to respond to every twist and turn with - spend more I scratch my my balding head
Also I worked through austerity and saw them clapping the bote not to raise nurses salaries- I know how low they can go

Could be I'm just becoming a grumpy old fella but I do wonder about the young more than my own age group
You can rest assured that no way will the public sector get a 5% rise.

Think they've realised that a £500 payment simply can't be monitored and won't happen.
 
Yea don't worry about a large public sector pay rise.... My wife has had her salary frozen again.... But wait there is more.... The council have also said all staff have to take 3 days off without pay... In effect a pay cut....
 
Public sector workers are in secure jobs, unlike private sector where hundreds of thousands have lost their jobs.

The solution is simple; the worlds 10 richest increased their wealth by £400 billion last year, enough to pay for all the worlds vaccine and take everyone out of poverty. A one off tax, followed by an increase of just 1% tax would solve all financial problems.
 
Public sector workers are in secure jobs, unlike private sector where hundreds of thousands have lost their jobs.

The solution is simple; the worlds 10 richest increased their wealth by £400 billion last year, enough to pay for all the worlds vaccine and take everyone out of poverty. A one off tax, followed by an increase of just 1% tax would solve all financial problems.
Mates... They are not in safe jobs.... Bolton council also announced that 10% of staff( 286) were to lose there jobs as well as the freeze and pay cut for the remainder that I mentioned above....
 
Very good post, it is a significant worry in particular for younger generation. I am fortunate to be retired but i do worry for so many people. It has become a really frightening world.
 
Not sure if I intended for this to go into the private v public sector debate - I understand benefits of both sectors- ie. I could earn more in private sector but this offset by pension and other t&c

Think my issue was how is it going to be paid back and in particular the question aimed at those who believe we are not spending enough and should borrow more
 
Mates... They are not in safe jobs.... Bolton council also announced that 10% of staff( 286) were to lose there jobs as well as the freeze and pay cut for the remainder that I mentioned above....
I understand that, and most are doing incredible jobs, but I’m sure you agree, the private sector is much more insecure.
 
I understand that, and most are doing incredible jobs, but I’m sure you agree, the private sector is much more insecure.
The whole thing is a crap fest mates.... What has made it worse for Bolton Council is it and the 9 other Greater Manchester councils own Manchester Airport and normally receive circa 5 to 7 million each year in dividends... But the Airport has basicly been shut all year and hence no dividend leaving massive holes in all Gr Manchester Council finances.... Add in all the other cut backs and its a perfect storm...... Pretty demoralising really.
 
Yea don't worry about a large public sector pay rise.... My wife has had her salary frozen again.... But wait there is more.... The council have also said all staff have to take 3 days off without pay... In effect a pay cut....
They can't force staff to do that btw. It has to be voluntary
 
Rusty i told her to speak to the union and to check her contract....i was a union rep for 15 years but have been out of it for quite a while....so im not up to date.
I think you'll find it's a change in the terms and conditions of the contract so as the current contract stands, taking unpaid leave would have to be voluntary. But they could always do what some councils have done and rip up the current contract. Then give the staff a new contract with 90 days to sign it. If after 90 days you haven't signed, you're sacked. Believe me, it's been done.
 
I think you'll find it's a change in the terms and conditions of the contract so as the current contract stands, taking unpaid leave would have to be voluntary. But they could always do what some councils have done and rip up the current contract. Then give the staff a new contract with 90 days to sign it. If after 90 days you haven't signed, you're sacked. Believe me, it's been done.
if you have a spare minute...just put bolton council staff to have 3 days unpaid into search engine...it should show up...see what you think of article.
 
There's got to be a balance between austerity and investment. The post war era was one of belt tightening on an individual level but it came alongside significant investment in a wide range of projects, infrastructure, industry and healthcare.

What concerns me about Labour is they seem to be as reactive as Boris. I simply don't believe that Boris or the Tories really have a plan for post Brexit as it was, let alone post Brexit/post pandemic but worryingly, I see no major evidence that labour have either.

Even without the pandemic, I think we're hitting a serious point of economic challenge. Automation has hit. Even if we rebuilt the industry we had 60 years ago (not that that would be a good idea, but it illustrates a point) it would employ a fraction of the workforce. The sort of jobs we need now are simply not being supplied by a rigid education system that doesn't breed the sort of skills that we increasingly talk about (critical thinking, self motivation, flexibility, adaptability, creative thinking etc etc)

There's a huge amount for any government to do and a lot of long term thinking required and there's nothing at the moment in politics I feel speaks to me at all about these things. Some vague notions of 'going green' but no real vision about how we do it. Could be talking about either side there.

I really think we've got a problem in politics. We treat it as entertainment. We love to see them get knocked down. We love to see the Paxman style gotcha interview and the tabloid shaming, we berate them for their personality flaws (too boring, too old, too jolly, too young, too posh, too common, too staid, too radical) and then we wonder why it feels like the only people who go into politics are combative pugilistic schemers and spin merchants and why they all obsess with the short term and popular.
 
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Its not in any Governments interests to plan so far ahead, incase it doesnt get the praise when it comes to fruition after its term... & the costs to get it to that point are spent during its term
 
Public sector workers are in secure jobs, unlike private sector where hundreds of thousands have lost their jobs.

The solution is simple; the worlds 10 richest increased their wealth by £400 billion last year, enough to pay for all the worlds vaccine and take everyone out of poverty. A one off tax, followed by an increase of just 1% tax would solve all financial problems.
The days of public sector jobs being secure are well in the past.

You might not have noticed but constant cutting of public service budgets means that everything has been cut to the bone in the name of 'efficiencies'. That's why we have no resilience when anything out of the ordinary happens.

That's why we have Nightingale hospitals empty because you can fill a building with kit more or less instantly, but the staff to resource it takes training and that takes time.

Austerity as political dogma has knackered us and that's why we have the highest death rate per capita in the world.
 
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