Is Critch weak and not capable or am I missing the point?

Chesterbfc

Chesterbfc

Well-known member
After watching his tinkering over 1 third of the season I,m only asking this question based on observations in the flesh at games I have attended home and away.
There seems to be a committee of 3 on the touchline with him constantly tracking back to them if things go wrong. I don't include Banks who I've yet to see improve any goalkeeper he has trained. (Grimmy being a case in.pt).
Will he always be a coach ?
He doesn't seem to grip the "nettle" and act decisively. Subs are in most cases after 70 mins or so
Our best managers have worked with a small group encouraged direct attacking football from Billy A onwards .
I ask the question in hope that maybe I,m wrong
 
I'd say partly right wrong. In his first spell Critch was one of the best managers we've had. In terms of results at least. He built a decent Championship side on a top 7 L1 budget. And this season we have started better than we did in his promotion season.

He is methodical, thorough and ponderous rather than inspired or super talented. Works to sustain a happy group rather than find his best XI. It's not wrong or right. It's a bit tedious though. I enjoyed his first spell with us but I didn't really fancy a rerun. Better than Appleton and McCarthy, but not as interesting as other options. But Sadler was seeing his millions frittered so you can understand him going back.

He seems to know how to constructs some bits of a team better than others. There's a desire to control possession but we are often better when we don't. There's a fear of youth and inexperience. Too much so for me. There's a struggle to link midfield to attack. I'd much prefer us to be less cautious and attack teams, whatever the outcome. Our realistic ceiling is about half.way up the Championship, so we may as well just have fun with what we've got. It's only a game.
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
It's always been this way with Critchley

Tries to be too clever and rotates players for the sake of it

Very lazy appointment by Sadler, only got him back because he knew him and probably couldn't trust himself to get anybody better after that last two appointments
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I don't think he rotates for the sake of it, he rotates for reasons. I don't think Sadler was lazy, I think he was freaked by Appleton and McCarthy. And I'm not sure Critch tries to be too clever. What does that even mean?

I think your post is lazy and trying to be too clever. And you're just rotating your ideas. 😉😆
 
voyeur said:
I don't think he rotates for the sake of it, he rotates for reasons. I don't think Sadler was lazy, I think he was freaked by Appleton and McCarthy. And I'm not sure Critch tries to be too clever. What does that even mean?

I think your post is lazy and trying to be too clever. And you're just rotating your ideas. 😉😆
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I don't give two fucks what you think when it comes to Critchley as you are so entrenched in your views on him that you clearly won't see what's in front of you

Absolutely no point in me wasting my time discussing it with you
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
I don't give two fucks what you think when it comes to Critchley as you are so entrenched in your views on him that you clearly won't see what's in front of you

Absolutely no point in me wasting my time discussing it with you
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Jesus wept. Not slept well Phil?

Entrenched my arse. I didn't even want him back, as I said above. Try again.
 
voyeur said:
Jesus wept. Not slept well Phil?

Entrenched my arse. I didn't even want him back, as I said above. Try again.
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Ok it was a lazy appointment due to the last 2 blokes failing
Better the devil you know approach isn't really the way to appoint football managers

So yeah Lazy

As for the manager he rotates when he doesn't need to, Lavery and Dembele dropped from midweek was bizarre

And yeah he tries to be too clever all the time Connolly at left wing back for games this season and why the fuck was Oakley Booth brought in against a team like Peterborough?

He over thinks things so yeah he tries to be too clever by playing people out of position and by second guessing the opposition

Yet again we lose and it was down to the manager imo
 
I don’t think he’s weak or incapable, his first spell suggests that’s not the case. But I think there are two things holding us back atm:
He is cautious by nature, overly so in my opinion, and sets us up not to lose rather than to win.
His unwillingness to settle on his best 11, and give them a run of games to build rhythm and momentum.
I still think that given 2 full seasons he’ll get us promoted ( or very close to) out of this division
 
Qblock said:
I don’t think he’s weak or incapable, his first spell suggests that’s not the case. But I think there are two things holding us back atm:
He is cautious by nature, overly so in my opinion, and sets us up not to lose rather than to win.
His unwillingness to settle on his best 11, and give them a run of games to build rhythm and momentum.
I still think that given 2 full seasons he’ll get us promoted ( or very close to) out of this division
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We should be aiming for Promotion this season and to be frank anything less than promotion is failure
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
Ok it was a lazy appointment due to the last 2 blokes failing
Better the devil you know approach isn't really the way to appoint football managers

So yeah Lazy

As for the manager he rotates when he doesn't need to, Lavery and Dembele dropped from midweek was bizarre

And yeah he tries to be too clever all the time Connolly at left wing back for games this season and why the fuck was Oakley Booth brought in against a team like Peterborough?

He over thinks things so yeah he tries to be too clever by playing people out of position and by second guessing the opposition

Yet again we lose and it was down to the manager imo
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Yes it was shit. I never said it wasn't, I just disagreed with the things you said above and I still do.

Poor team selection. We seem to need to go two goals down to start playing the way we should be. Oh we're two nil down we'd better get Dembele on. It's tedious. And it's not working, not getting the best out of the resources we have. And not entertaining people. Coaching correctness gone mad. .
 
voyeur said:
Yes it was shit. I never said it wasn't, I just disagreed with the things you said above and I still do.

Poor team selection. We seem to need to go two goals down to start playing the way we should be. Oh we're two nil down we'd better get Dembele on. It's tedious. And it's not working, not getting the best out of the resources we have. And not entertaining people. Coaching correctness gone mad. .
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So you do agree with me then?
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
We should be aiming for Promotion this season and to be frank anything less than promotion is failure
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Yes we should be aiming for it, but I don’t think anything less is failure. By that definition 21 teams in our division will fail. When actually the margins in a lot of games are very fine
 
Qblock said:
Yes we should be aiming for it, but I don’t think anything less is failure. By that definition 21 teams in our division will fail. When actually the margins in a lot of games are very fine
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We were a Championship club last season and one of the only clubs to be relegated who didn't have financial constraints

Of course we should be aiming for promotion

And certainly should be higher than the majority of teams who weren't in the Championship last season

Your definition doesn't make any sense whatsoever
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
We were a Championship club last season and one of the only clubs to be relegated who didn't have financial constraints

Of course we should be aiming for promotion

And certainly should be higher than the majority of teams who weren't in the Championship last season

Your definition doesn't make any sense whatsoever
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I’ve agreed we should be aiming for promotion?
But let’s say we finish 4th and lose a play off final by one goal, does that represent failure? I don’t think so. I think it says that in football you don’t always get what you want, sometimes by a very fine margin.
When we were relegated if I’d have been offered promotion within two seasons I’d snap your hand off. History shows that relegated teams don’t often bounce back at the first attempt
 
Qblock said:
I’ve agreed we should be aiming for promotion?
But let’s say we finish 4th and lose a play off final by one goal, does that represent failure? I don’t think so. I think it says that in football you don’t always get what you want, sometimes by a very fine margin.
When we were relegated if I’d have been offered promotion within two seasons I’d snap your hand off. History shows that relegated teams don’t often bounce back at the first attempt
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Yes it does anything less the Promotion is failure and at the moment the manager is letting us down with ridiculous decisions
 
Qblock said:
I’ve agreed we should be aiming for promotion?
But let’s say we finish 4th and lose a play off final by one goal, does that represent failure? I don’t think so. I think it says that in football you don’t always get what you want, sometimes by a very fine margin.
When we were relegated if I’d have been offered promotion within two seasons I’d snap your hand off. History shows that relegated teams don’t often bounce back at the first attempt
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You either succeed or you fail. If not getting promotion isn't success then it's failure however that is couched.

There are no fine margins with heads or tails.
 
Sadler told us that he commissioned an independent report on managerial options and Critchley, unsurprisingly, came out as the best option. He is a manager that got a L1 club promoted and did very well in the Championship. If you're stating that it was a lazy appointment then I'd love to know who you think would have been a better appointment.
 
Seaseaseasider said:
Sadler told us that he commissioned an independent report on managerial options and Critchley, unsurprisingly, came out as the best option. He is a manager that got a L1 club promoted and did very well in the Championship. If you're stating that it was a lazy appointment then I'd love to know who you think would have been a better appointment.
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I have no idea who applied for the role or who was even interested in taking the job thus meaning it impossible to say who would have been a better appointment
 
voyeur said:
I'd say partly right wrong. In his first spell Critch was one of the best managers we've had. In terms of results at least. He built a decent Championship side on a top 7 L1 budget. And this season we have started better than we did in his promotion season.

He is methodical, thorough and ponderous rather than inspired or super talented. Works to sustain a happy group rather than find his best XI. It's not wrong or right. It's a bit tedious though. I enjoyed his first spell with us but I didn't really fancy a rerun. Better than Appleton and McCarthy, but not as interesting as other options. But Sadler was seeing his millions frittered so you can understand him going back.

He seems to know how to constructs some bits of a team better than others. There's a desire to control possession but we are often better when we don't. There's a fear of youth and inexperience. Too much so for me. There's a struggle to link midfield to attack. I'd much prefer us to be less cautious and attack teams, whatever the outcome. Our realistic ceiling is about half.way up the Championship, so we may as well just have fun with what we've got. It's only a game.
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Fear of youth and inexperience?

Casey (23)
Oakley Boothe (23)
Carey (22)
Thompson (23)
Kouassi (20)

Dembele (20)
 
I do think it’s possible that Simon went for him after having his fingers badly burnt with the two previous appointments, so in his opinion a safe pair of hands. I personally didn’t want him back, I don’t like his style of football, endlessly passing around the back, then hoofed up front, he’s cautious and negative, but again, I can understand Simon appointing him. He got us promoted, kept us in the championship and earned a fair wedge with Bowler, Yates etc.
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
I have no idea who applied for the role or who was even interested in taking the job thus meaning it impossible to say who would have been a better appointment
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Definitely not impossible. You would have to think who may have been interested due to either being out of work or currently in a job where coming to us would have been seen as a 'step up'. There weren't many attractive options at the time and Critchley was cleary the best option.
 
Seaseaseasider said:
Definitely not impossible. You would have to think who may have been interested due to either being out of work or currently in a job where coming to us would have been seen as a 'step up'. There weren't many attractive options at the time and Critchley was cleary the best option.
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How on earth do you know that he was 'clearly' the best option ?
 
voyeur said:
Well yeah ok but only Casey and Carey are really trusted of those. The rest get very few starts.
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He’s been rotating lots of younger players in and out … Morgan and Weir also, so whichever way you look at it, he’s putting faith in youth, because there’s always a good spread of them on the pitch at any one time.

He has started Oakley Boothe against the best two sides we’ve played recently (with him having never featured previously)…I’m not sure you could place more faith in youth and inexperience than that tbh…. A really brave choice too for those calling him a coward.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
He’s been rotating lots of younger players in and out … Morgan and Weir also, so whichever way you look at it, he’s putting faith in youth, because there’s always a good spread of them on the pitch at any one time.

He has started Oakley Boothe against the best two sides we’ve played recently (with him having never featured previously)…I’m not sure you could place more faith in youth and inexperience than that tbh…. A really brave choice too for those calling him a coward.
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Brave is one word for it. Chosen ahead of 20 year old Dembele. Morgan played regularly for Charlton. He's 23, not really a youth. Casey too.
 
Seaseaseasider said:
Sadler told us that he commissioned an independent report on managerial options and Critchley, unsurprisingly, came out as the best option. He is a manager that got a L1 club promoted and did very well in the Championship. If you're stating that it was a lazy appointment then I'd love to know who you think would have been a better appointment.
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Evett for 1,
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
He’s been rotating lots of younger players in and out … Morgan and Weir also, so whichever way you look at it, he’s putting faith in youth, because there’s always a good spread of them on the pitch at any one time.

He has started Oakley Boothe against the best two sides we’ve played recently (with him having never featured previously)…I’m not sure you could place more faith in youth and inexperience than that tbh…. A really brave choice too for those calling him a coward.
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I,m not calling him a coward I think Morgan and Dembele would maybe better starting options I for positivity and the other cos he,s non conventional
 
Chesterbfc said:
I,m not calling him a coward I think Morgan and Dembele would maybe better starting options I for positivity and the other cos he,s non conventional
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He’s been called cowardly though, which I really don’t think is fair.

It’s possible that Morgan and Dembele might have been better options, although Peterborough looked a very powerful side to me and it’s also possible those two might have been a bit powder puff early on in the game.

We obviously never get the chance to test all of the woulda, coulda, shoulda options. And so of course, the assumption is always going to be that “We’d have been much better if we’d done X than if we did Y”

As it stands, I’m yet to see a midfield 3 that I would consider to be stand out over the course of a full game tbh.
 
Chesterbfc said:
He doesn't seem to grip the "nettle" and act decisively. Subs are in most cases after 70 mins or so
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I don't know much about the new Cheltenham manager but I admired the cut of his gib last week when he made 4 changes at half time. Also noticed they won at Vale on Saturday. Always felt Critchley was over-cautious and to not have any changes at the break on Saturday spoke volumes.
 
I've said it a lot, but he wasn't the lazy option at all, that's bollocks, Sadler knew he'd get criticised for bringing him back when all along he had a ready made fan favourite in Dobbie sat waiting to go.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Because he’s the best manager who was available at the time. Simple as that really…

You need to start counting your blessings instead of moaning constantly.
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How do you know that?

Surely even for a Critchley fanboy like you, the time to judge is the end of the season

We are doing ok currently but nothing more or even less
 
TonyParrsDodgyMic said:
I don't know much about the new Cheltenham manager but I admired the cut of his gib last week when he made 4 changes at half time. Also noticed they won at Vale on Saturday. Always felt Critchley was over-cautious and to not have any changes at the break on Saturday spoke volumes.
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To be fair to Critchley, in his first home game he made 2 half time changes (Virtue off, Spearing on, Nuttall off, Gnando on). I can't remember when it was exactly but I remember praising Appleton for decisive early changes early in his reign.

Point is, same men then also got/get pelters for not making changes and it's often managers at the beginning of their tenure, before their ideas get firmed up about who they do/don't trust and how they want the team to play.

Fwiw, I agree with you that his changes feel tentative and often based on minutes on the pitch as opposed to the ebb and flow of the game, but Critch is Critch is Critch.
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
How do you know that?

Surely even for a Critchley fanboy like you, the time to judge is the end of the season

We are doing ok currently but nothing more or even less
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I know it because it is the case.

What are we judging ?

We’re making steady progress and there’s more to come. We have a happy and motivated squad and players rave about the dressing room and the manager… (in factwe attract good quality prospects because of the manager) contrast that to Appleton who could only attract loan signings!!

We’re scoring regularly, we’ve got a number of exciting younger players, the way we play is improving and despite a pretty average start, we’re right up there in the mix.

What’s the issue ?
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I know it because it is the case.

What are we judging ?

We’re making steady progress and there’s more to come. We have a happy and motivated squad and players rave about the dressing room and the manager… (in factwe attract good quality prospects because of the manager) contrast that to Appleton who could only attract loan signings!!

We’re scoring regularly, we’ve got a number of exciting younger players, the way we play is improving and despite a pretty average start, we’re right up there in the mix.

What’s the issue ?
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Yeah it's ok

Win some, lose some and draw some

All very vanilla
 
The biggest thing with Critchley is that he seems overly cautious. He seems to have the mentality that a draw is a point gained rather than being 2 points lost.
I could understand it in the first season in the championship whilst we get better players etc and evolve but we are in league 1 now and it bugs me that we are setting up fearing anybody.
Having said all that maybe it's simply the players aren't good enough to do what he is asking them to do. He often is waving them forward from the sidelines so maybe he has too much faith in some of his players and needs to drop them if they aren't doing it.
 
41% first time around and 47% current win percentage with us. Only Sam Allerdyce and Billy Ayre similar to that (And I'm not talking about anyone who managed a few games like Dobbie with a 50% record). So stats would say he's one of our most successful managers in at least the last 50 years.
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
Yeah maybe but we could and should be better imo
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We could also be a whole lot worse…. Last season gave us an insight into that.

As I’ve said countless times… We all have our own ‘imaginary solutions’ the players we would have played instead or differently, the changes to the formation etc.. When you read this board there’s a 1001 different opinions and each one (in their own heads at least) offers the perfect outcome.

Personally I’ve got absolute respect and admiration for any manager who can come in and deliver a decent set of results.

Critchley isn’t here to simply stop the rot or get instant success.. There’s much more to it than that… The club (owner) is also looking for him to implement a particular style at the same time… So it’s not a case of simply looking at the squad and finding the system that suits the current players …

He’s managing to achieve that transition (despite the fact that his squad aren’t all ideally suited) and achieve decent results at the same time… It’s where we end up that matters and he’ll get us there…
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
We could also be a whole lot worse…. Last season gave us an insight into that.

As I’ve said countless times… We all have our own ‘imaginary solutions’ the players we would have played instead or differently, the changes to the formation etc.. When you read this board there’s a 1001 different opinions and each one (in their own heads at least) offers the perfect outcome.

Personally I’ve got absolute respect and admiration for any manager who can come in and deliver a decent set of results.

Critchley isn’t here to simply stop the rot or get instant success.. There’s much more to it than that… The club (owner) is also looking for him to implement a particular style at the same time… So it’s not a case of simply looking at the squad and finding the system that suits the current players …

He’s managing to achieve that transition (despite the fact that his squad aren’t all ideally suited) and achieve decent results at the same time… It’s where we end up that matters and he’ll get us there…
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We are a league lower

Ffs man show some ambition
 
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