Is it now a game of poker between SS and fans?

LA1 Seasider said:
Personally I think NC has done a fair job of pulling us out of a freefall caused by Appleton. Recovering from relegation isn’t easy - look at Wigan !
We’ve been there or thereabouts all season. I think a rebuild and a refresh is necessary on the playing staff side and I think some character is desperately lacking.
But some outgoings and Championship contracts ending should give us some wriggle room to bring some fresh energy in and some players on an upward trajectory like first time around under Critchley.
I’m actually really positive for next season and given SS has said promotion has to happen this season or next to avoid failure - everyone knows exactly where they stand.
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I don’t see we were in free-fall. If you look at our squad last season and the talent, including very good loans, we should never have gone down. Sadly it was all down to the choice of manager and then not sacking him after Wigan, then compounded by another shocking appointment in McCarthy.

It wasn’t that we were total garbage, and we have to remember this is now 3rd tier. I don’t think we needed rescuing and we’ve seen the talent available this season, if used properly.

The relegation was avoidable, as is where we are now, looking towards next season.
 
TimperleyTangerine said:
SS has intimated strongly that NC will be with us next season.

Many fans are seriously considering ST renewal and if they can stomach another season of NC style football.

I consider myself a moderate, but football under NC is the most boring in 40 years of supporting Pool. What we’ve witnessed this season was evident in the second half of the season, in his first stint in charge. I see stubbornness and arrogance, things that I don’t envisage will change.

We’ve had many poor squads and much worse seasons, but for me, there has generally been a connection between fans & players. It feels to me, that the life has been sucked out of players & fans. Apathy is very evident and that is disastrous for any club and owner.

Sadly, SS made a huge error recently when he backed NC for next season. Where was the pressure for the manager to think again?

So, it’s now a game of poker and I don’t see fans blinking on ST purchases, unless NC is removed. Yes, there will be renewals, but not at the level he’s seen since buying the club. It won’t just be a few hundred.

We need hope ahead of next season, to get the feeling back. I have none at present.

Finally, I hope SS realises that the fans are behind him. The fact that fans haven’t been more vocal in the ground about NC is, in part, out of respect towards SS.
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'So, it's now a game of poker ...' and the sooner Critchley can be peruaded to shove his where the sun don't shine, the better!
 
Just read this thread. I am not a Critchley fan, for a number of reasons that I've elucidated on this site. However, Sadler is and it's his money. Whatever we think of Simon Sadler, he doesn't come across as the kind of guy who throws his money around for no good reason.
 
Sandgrown1 said:
Sad to say it mate but after 20 mins or so my daughter pointed out that she could actually read ARMFIELD easily from the north. And you could too. Loads of regulars missing. I also thought ‘not a chance’ that the crowd was 10K plus. It looks like there was 1000 or so absent. Maybe 200 on holiday? Figures plucked from thin air a bit but there’s already people staying away.
Or maybe they’d fuked off already.
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Even though, incredibly, it would appear the board (bored?) are are more than happy with the mind-numbing nature of the Critchley style of play currently on show, I find it hard to believe there isn't some element of disquiet at the impact the brand of football we're being exposed to at BR is having on: (a) the disastrous level of home attendance; and (b) the atmosphere - or lack there of - in evidence at Bloomers on matchday.

To the 'high-ups' at the club, all I would say is that while you may not be unduly bothered by the 'desparate showings' we are all being exposed to, by what is becoming an alarmingly dispirited team, during the course of a Saturday afternoon, surely the funereal atmosphere, created by the rapidly dwindling band of long-suffering home attendees, can't help but cause alarm bells to start ringing out, loud and clear.

Felt obliged to raise these points as I am seeing little, or no sign of these rather worrying developments being addressed.
 
Martonmosser said:
Will be a lot more than that in my opinion. If fans like myself are considering not buying one if that clown is still manager then I reckon sales will be massively down
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“If fans like myself … “ Call yourself a fan just cause you’re not happy with current manager. One of best teams at home in league this year, and a team who has scored a lot of goals. You don’t sound like much of a fan to me… more like a glory grabber.
 
Complete disagree with these snide shots at Sadler as I reckon without his him we would still be in some post Oyston mess - remember there were plenty,in here, who were crowing for the Fleetwood old lag to be running the show .

OK Critchley has fallen short of making the play offs ( I know mathematically they are still on but in reality.....) and as manager he has to take responsibility for that.

I do agree that too often the footy on offer has been boring ( not all the time) .I might be inviting pelters but I think many players have underperformed throughout the season .

I'll be there today but zero pre match excitement. I'm sure will get a bit of a lift when the game starts but hopefully not clockwatching as at Wycombe game
 
Bisphamtang said:
Complete disagree with these snide shots at Sadler as I reckon without his him we would still be in some post Oyston mess - remember there were plenty,in here, who were crowing for the Fleetwood old lag to be running the show .

OK Critchley has fallen short of making the play offs ( I know mathematically they are still on but in reality.....) and as manager he has to take responsibility for that.

I do agree that too often the footy on offer has been boring ( not all the time) .I might be inviting pelters but I think many players have underperformed throughout the season .

I'll be there today but zero pre match excitement. I'm sure will get a bit of a lift when the game starts but hopefully not clockwatching as at Wycombe game
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Problem is he does not take any responsibility and has learned nothing from defeats earlier in the season that set the trend.
Nearly all the team has, been signed whilst he has been in charge, so it sticks in the craw a little when he throws them under the bus.
 
TimperleyTangerine said:
No, they did, but they didn’t have the talent at their disposal.
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This is always my argument and it's like because it was so bad back then that because you show disquiet about the shite we are enduring now then you don't deserve to call yourself a fan.
If any of those shit managers under the stains had the equivalent funding for that time it most likely wouldn't be as poor as it was.
Imagine Crotchless working with the standard of players the club could attract back then.
The two can't be compared like for like.
 
Bisphamtang said:
Complete disagree with these snide shots at Sadler as I reckon without his him we would still be in some post Oyston mess - remember there were plenty,in here, who were crowing for the Fleetwood old lag to be running the show .

OK Critchley has fallen short of making the play offs ( I know mathematically they are still on but in reality.....) and as manager he has to take responsibility for that.

I do agree that too often the footy on offer has been boring ( not all the time) .I might be inviting pelters but I think many players have underperformed throughout the season .

I'll be there today but zero pre match excitement. I'm sure will get a bit of a lift when the game starts but hopefully not clockwatching as at Wycombe game
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I agree with much of that especially the Sadler comment and the players.
However, if the players have underperformed who is that down to?
Looking at him yesterday, he looks defeated to me Critchley and that is no way to go in to a new season. I really hope he resigns.
 
Altyseasider said:
Think you underestimate how many of the casual fans we have built up over the last few years will pack it in.
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Yes, quite a few blase “I’ll be here if you aren’t and you won’t be missed” types at our club. They prefer to support little old Blackpool… the tiny club that exists against all odds and can never expect to be competing well in any division that we happen to be in against “the big boys”
 
Nuttalls Mint Toes said:
I agree with much of that especially the Sadler comment and the players.
However, if the players have underperformed who is that down to?
Looking at him yesterday, he looks defeated to me Critchley and that is no way to go in to a new season. I really hope he resigns.
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Would be my preferred get rid option as well seeing as he’s stealing a living at the moment
 
TwelveAngryMen said:
Personally I can’t see Simon putting up with failure and let’s be right this season has been an abject failure with no attempt being made to improve things - rather the management team just ‘ rinse and repeat ‘ making the same mistakes over and over again
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It’s almost like they know they are secure financially if potted or have loads of time to steal their wages if he doesn’t pot them and they have taken the route of trolling the fans instead.
 
TimperleyTangerine said:
SS has intimated strongly that NC will be with us next season.

Many fans are seriously considering ST renewal and if they can stomach another season of NC style football.

I consider myself a moderate, but football under NC is the most boring in 40 years of supporting Pool. What we’ve witnessed this season was evident in the second half of the season, in his first stint in charge. I see stubbornness and arrogance, things that I don’t envisage will change.

We’ve had many poor squads and much worse seasons, but for me, there has generally been a connection between fans & players. It feels to me, that the life has been sucked out of players & fans. Apathy is very evident and that is disastrous for any club and owner.

Sadly, SS made a huge error recently when he backed NC for next season. Where was the pressure for the manager to think again?

So, it’s now a game of poker and I don’t see fans blinking on ST purchases, unless NC is removed. Yes, there will be renewals, but not at the level he’s seen since buying the club. It won’t just be a few hundred.

We need hope ahead of next season, to get the feeling back. I have none at present.

Finally, I hope SS realises that the fans are behind him. The fact that fans haven’t been more vocal in the ground about NC is, in part, out of respect towards SS.
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If folk don’t buy a season tickets they soon will if we win the first 5 games. Results on the pitch will set the crowd
 
JHNG said:
“If fans like myself … “ Call yourself a fan just cause you’re not happy with current manager. One of best teams at home in league this year, and a team who has scored a lot of goals. You don’t sound like much of a fan to me… more like a glory grabber.
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I think this is the problem isn't it. 3rd in the home form table but 12th in the away form. 6 wins from 21 games. Critchley must know Another 7 wins away from home and we'd have probably been promoted automatically. Easy to find those 7 games where we should be winning - when they sit down at the end of the season with that iPad, it's pretty obvious that the squad was good enough but the tactics on the road weren't.
 
Martonmosser said:
Anything less than 6th has got to be failure hasn’t it?
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Playing devil's advocate, would finishing 7th on goal difference be 'failure'? Or to put it another way, if your business goals for the 24/25 financial year are a 10% increase in revenue and 3% increase in margin and you achieve 9.7% revenue increase and 2.5% margin increase have you 'failed'? Would you close the business down or sack senior people because of the 'failure'?

Sledgehammer analogy to crack a nut, but the reality is, we've been close throughout the season without ever quite being good enough. I don't see SS as someone who looks at that scenario and decides to sack his head coach. Although, I'm fully agreed with the view that change is needed on the football side as it's not really doing anything to get people excited or interested in watching Blackpool FC.
 
straightatthewall said:
Playing devil's advocate, would finishing 7th on goal difference be 'failure'? Or to put it another way, if your business goals for the 24/25 financial year are a 10% increase in revenue and 3% increase in margin and you achieve 9.7% revenue increase and 2.5% margin increase have you 'failed'? Would you close the business down or sack senior people because of the 'failure'?

Sledgehammer analogy to crack a nut, but the reality is, we've been close throughout the season without ever quite being good enough. I don't see SS as someone who looks at that scenario and decides to sack his head coach. Although, I'm fully agreed with the view that change is needed on the football side as it's not really doing anything to get people excited or interested in watching Blackpool FC.
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personally, i don't think we've ever been close. We've never really challenged that top six. People come on here and say if we win those games and they lose their games blah blah blah. All about what we'd like to happen, hope that happens, when the reality is it hasn't.
 
20togo said:
personally, i don't think we've ever been close. We've never really challenged that top six. People come on here and say if we win those games and they lose their games blah blah blah. All about what we'd like to happen, hope that happens, when the reality is it hasn't.
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Well, we're close enough to still have a very slim chance of making the play offs with 4 games remaining. I don't think we will make them, but it's a fact that we're close whether people like it or not or whether it will bring success or not. My point isn't that everything is fine and nothing needs to change, it's that from a club perspective, while the season hasn't (or probably won't) bring the hoped for targets/goals, it has also been close enough to suggest some elements are positive and going in the right direction. Others definitely aren't. Reading some of the language used about players and performance etc. suggests that everything is negative.
 
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straightatthewall said:
Well, we're close enough to still have a very slim chance of making the play offs with 4 games remaining. I don't think we will make them, but it's a fact that we're close whether people like it or not or whether it will bring success or not. My point isn't that everything is fine and nothing needs to change, it's that from a club perspective, while the season hasn't (or probably won't) being the hoped for targets/goals, it has also been close enough to suggest some elements are positive and going in the right direction. Others definitely aren't. Reading some of the language used about players and performance etc. suggests that everything is negative.
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but as i basically said, it depends on us doing something we've not done all season and that's putting a string of winning games together. And we are relying on other teams to drop a significant number of points too! It's in peoples minds that we are close but it's pie in the sky. Some on here can't seem to see what's right before their very eyes. Poor performances, poor tactics, poor formations and poor team selection. Some people have been saying that for a long time now. Some are just naive enough to want to hang until it's mathematically impossible.
 
20togo said:
but as i basically said, it depends on us doing something we've not done all season and that's putting a string of winning games together. And we are relying on other teams to drop a significant number of points too! It's in peoples minds that we are close but it's pie in the sky. Some on here can't seem to see what's right before their very eyes. Poor performances, poor tactics, poor formations and poor team selection. Some people have been saying that for a long time now. Some are just naive enough to want to hang until it's mathematically impossible.
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How can it only be in people's minds that we're close when the table tells you otherwise? That's also not seeing what's right before your very eyes.

And don't get me wrong here, change is DEFINITELY needed for next season, but do those changes need to be wholesale? Lot's of players out, new coach, new style etc.? It's really not a stretch to argue that if we're THAT BAD, why are we 8th and heading for (about) 70 points from the season? Whichever way you want to see it, those metrics aren't the worst in the world and offer a platform to build on. As way of comparison. Morecambe were relegated from League 1 last season. They currently sit 10th in League 2. Are they failing or just not quite hitting the mark?
 
We haven’t been close all season we’ve not played well either, Stevenage have been close they stayed in there a good while we’ve not been close to penetrating that top six. My only hope is that Simon pulls the trigger early, the earlier the better and not this ten games then judge me nonsense. Lincoln have benefited from a change in manager but probably left it too late, deep down as a fan he must know that this isn’t going to work out as he thinks it will he needs to think with his head and not his heart.
 
straightatthewall said:
How can it only be in people's minds that we're close when the table tells you otherwise? That's also not seeing what's right before your very eyes.

And don't get me wrong here, change is DEFINITELY needed for next season, but do those changes need to be wholesale? Lot's of players out, new coach, new style etc.? It's really not a stretch to argue that if we're THAT BAD, why are we 8th and heading for (about) 70 points from the season? Whichever way you want to see it, those metrics aren't the worst in the world and offer a platform to build on. As way of comparison. Morecambe were relegated from League 1 last season. They currently sit 10th in League 2. Are they failing or just not quite hitting the mark?
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In my opinion they are failing, just like us. It’s been a p1ss poor season and personally I can’t wait for it to end
 
Martonmosser said:
In my opinion they are failing, just like us. It’s been a p1ss poor season and personally I can’t wait for it to end
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Genuine question, with no hidden agenda - do you think the same results provided by more exciting football would have left you more enthusiastic about the season?
 
straightatthewall said:
Genuine question, with no hidden agenda - do you think the same results provided by more exciting football would have left you more enthusiastic about the season?
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For me, there is a right way to lose and it's not what has happened away from home.

If he had set the team up to win and settle for a draw then all well and good with me.
But sets up for a draw and hopefully nick a win even against the worst team in the division.
Then when we go behind we as fans know the outcome every time. 😒
 
straightatthewall said:
Playing devil's advocate, would finishing 7th on goal difference be 'failure'? Or to put it another way, if your business goals for the 24/25 financial year are a 10% increase in revenue and 3% increase in margin and you achieve 9.7% revenue increase and 2.5% margin increase have you 'failed'? Would you close the business down or sack senior people because of the 'failure'?

Sledgehammer analogy to crack a nut, but the reality is, we've been close throughout the season without ever quite being good enough. I don't see SS as someone who looks at that scenario and decides to sack his head coach. Although, I'm fully agreed with the view that change is needed on the football side as it's not really doing anything to get people excited or interested in watching Blackpool FC.
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Straighters

You make good points there.

Lower than 6th has to be failure and I'm sure that some might say that failing to get promoted is failure as that was surely the goal at the start of the season and performance pay would surely be geared around that ?

As you suggest there are very fine lines between finishing 7th on goal difference and scoring a last minute goal in the last match of the season that gets you in to 6th on goals scored before going on to win the play-offs.

Of course, I am being very hypothetical and going down the long route to agree with your point that failing - finishing 7th on goal difference - in a season doesn't necessarily mean that the manager has to go.

I think I should have just said I agree with you !!!!!!!!!!
 
SEASIDE2020 said:
Straighters

You make good points there.

Lower than 6th has to be failure and I'm sure that some might say that failing to get promoted is failure as that was surely the goal at the start of the season and performance pay would surely be geared around that ?

As you suggest there are very fine lines between finishing 7th on goal difference and scoring a last minute goal in the last match of the season that gets you in to 6th on goals scored before going on to win the play-offs.

Of course, I am being very hypothetical and going down the long route to agree with your point that failing - finishing 7th on goal difference - in a season doesn't necessarily mean that the manager has to go.

I think I should have just said I agree with you !!!!!!!!!!
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Therein lies the problem. I don't think it's as straightforward as people think. It would be a lot easier if we were in the bottom half with a top 6 budget. As it is, we're in the top 10 with a (I'd guess) top 10 budget.
 
20togo said:
personally, i don't think we've ever been close. We've never really challenged that top six. People come on here and say if we win those games and they lose their games blah blah blah. All about what we'd like to happen, hope that happens, when the reality is it hasn't.
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Only time I felt it was after the Northampton game. The play-off door was fully open for us.

We turned up like it was a testimonial with zero urgency and desire to win.

It has gone by Wycombe but we did the same.

You can blame the players but if they keep letting us down and doing the same things wrong then that’s on the Manager. We’ve lost 8-9 away games in exactly the same fashion.
 
Dougall said:
I think this is the problem isn't it. 3rd in the home form table but 12th in the away form. 6 wins from 21 games. Critchley must know Another 7 wins away from home and we'd have probably been promoted automatically. Easy to find those 7 games where we should be winning - when they sit down at the end of the season with that iPad, it's pretty obvious that the squad was good enough but the tactics on the road weren't.
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Weren't the tactics the same but the players just didnt perform like they did at home ?

In saying that im not absolving NC from blame of course as its up to him to make the necessary changes.
 
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straightatthewall said:
How can it only be in people's minds that we're close when the table tells you otherwise? That's also not seeing what's right before your very eyes.

And don't get me wrong here, change is DEFINITELY needed for next season, but do those changes need to be wholesale? Lot's of players out, new coach, new style etc.? It's really not a stretch to argue that if we're THAT BAD, why are we 8th and heading for (about) 70 points from the season? Whichever way you want to see it, those metrics aren't the worst in the world and offer a platform to build on. As way of comparison. Morecambe were relegated from League 1 last season. They currently sit 10th in League 2. Are they failing or just not quite hitting the mark?
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For me our performance this season has to be measured against the competition, taking into account our playing budget. It can’t be right to accept a near miss, when some very average teams will finish above us. Outside the top 6 is a failure, and you only have to look at what we’ve achieved against the best teams to see that. Those better teams have come out and played football, which suits our style. The simple fact is that NC has been unable to counter the negative tactics employed regularly by weaker teams.

It’s a failure and it’s squarely down to NC. Had he been able to change, to keep opposition managers guessing, then I’d be more relaxed with a near miss. However, he’s demonstrated that he’s tactically inept and that gives me no hope for next season.

It’s a huge decision for SS, because if he gives NC more time, say until Christmas, then that’s yet another season gone. It looks like the challenge will be greater next year with the teams coming down / up. Teams well used to bouncing back and others full of optimism. Let’s not forget usually competitive teams that have been hit with points deductions. They will also be sniffing. It could seriously be lower mid-table and worse.

There will be a lot of in & outs in close season, but if you can’t get the best out of a squad, even big spending won’t matter. You’ve only got to read / listen to comments by QPR fans and NC’s interviews whilst there, to understand what he lacking.
 
20togo said:
but as i basically said, it depends on us doing something we've not done all season and that's putting a string of winning games together. And we are relying on other teams to drop a significant number of points too! It's in peoples minds that we are close but it's pie in the sky. Some on here can't seem to see what's right before their very eyes. Poor performances, poor tactics, poor formations and poor team selection. Some people have been saying that for a long time now. Some are just naive enough to want to hang until it's mathematically impossible.
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Agree and if we are ‘close’ it’s only down to how poor L1 is this season. With a few exceptions, even our home performances have been desperate, including games we’ve won. That says much about the quality of the opposition.
 
straightatthewall said:
How can it only be in people's minds that we're close when the table tells you otherwise? That's also not seeing what's right before your very eyes.

And don't get me wrong here, change is DEFINITELY needed for next season, but do those changes need to be wholesale? Lot's of players out, new coach, new style etc.? It's really not a stretch to argue that if we're THAT BAD, why are we 8th and heading for (about) 70 points from the season? Whichever way you want to see it, those metrics aren't the worst in the world and offer a platform to build on. As way of comparison. Morecambe were relegated from League 1 last season. They currently sit 10th in League 2. Are they failing or just not quite hitting
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Heard of the expression about being close but actually a million miles away?
 
TimperleyTangerine said:
For me our performance this season has to be measured against the competition, taking into account our playing budget. It can’t be right to accept a near miss, when some very average teams will finish above us. Outside the top 6 is a failure, and you only have to look at what we’ve achieved against the best teams to see that. Those better teams have come out and played football, which suits our style. The simple fact is that NC has been unable to counter the negative tactics employed regularly by weaker teams.

It’s a failure and it’s squarely down to NC. Had he been able to change, to keep opposition managers guessing, then I’d be more relaxed with a near miss. However, he’s demonstrated that he’s tactically inept and that gives me no hope for next season.

It’s a huge decision for SS, because if he gives NC more time, say until Christmas, then that’s yet another season gone. It looks like the challenge will be greater next year with the teams coming down / up. Teams well used to bouncing back and others full of optimism. Let’s not forget usually competitive teams that have been hit with points deductions. They will also be sniffing. It could seriously be lower mid-table and worse.

There will be a lot of in & outs in close season, but if you can’t get the best out of a squad, even big spending won’t matter. You’ve only got to read / listen to comments by QPR fans and NC’s interviews whilst there, to understand what he lacking.
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Timpers,

I actually agree with everything you're saying there. I also feel that we could have done a lot better than we have and I also feel that NC's refusal/inability to deviate from the original plan, is a clear error, which is basically shown by us never learning from our mistakes through the season. We've lost the same type of game in the same type of manner consistently. That's something that needs arresting in my opinion.

However, the big question is whether the board and senior football people (other than NC) see it our way or see it in another light i.e. we've been solid and have stabilised, but have just fallen short over this season. It could potentially (possibly easily) viewed that actually, this season, while not great, has also been not bad and sets us up well for next season.

And if the board do see it like that, then what next? Season ticket sales will fall whatever. That's a cyclical risk of football and I'd be amazed if the club would be surprised by a drop - of course they might be surprised by the size of the drop...

But for us as supporters, what do WE do if NC (as looks likely) is still in charge at the start of the 2024/2025 season? Do those that have renewed go in grumbling and with negative mindsets, waiting for failure so we can say I told you so? Or do we try and get back on the horse on be positive, knowing that HAS to offer some lift to the team?

A lot of very tricky and delicate situations to navigate.
 
straightatthewall said:
Timpers,

I actually agree with everything you're saying there. I also feel that we could have done a lot better than we have and I also feel that NC's refusal/inability to deviate from the original plan, is a clear error, which is basically shown by us never learning from our mistakes through the season. We've lost the same type of game in the same type of manner consistently. That's something that needs arresting in my opinion.

However, the big question is whether the board and senior football people (other than NC) see it our way or see it in another light i.e. we've been solid and have stabilised, but have just fallen short over this season. It could potentially (possibly easily) viewed that actually, this season, while not great, has also been not bad and sets us up well for next season.

And if the board do see it like that, then what next? Season ticket sales will fall whatever. That's a cyclical risk of football and I'd be amazed if the club would be surprised by a drop - of course they might be surprised by the size of the drop...

But for us as supporters, what do WE do if NC (as looks likely) is still in charge at the start of the 2024/2025 season? Do those that have renewed go in grumbling and with negative mindsets, waiting for failure so we can say I told you so? Or do we try and get back on the horse on be positive, knowing that HAS to offer some lift to the team?

A lot of very tricky and delicate situations to navigate.
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I agree, and I just hope that when judging the season, the Board adopts a critical approach. As you say, at face value it could be construed as quite positive and a near miss. Any degree of interrogation would suggest otherwise.

On your other good point, I guess many fans won’t renew and most will. For fans it’s a heart decision mixed with a high degree of optimism. What will make the difference this year is that optimism is low. For me it non-existent under NC, because I disliked it first time around in the 2nd half of the season.

It seems bizarre me typing that, about optimism, when I fell in love with the club in re-election year. Thing is, most years we’ve given it all, even when we were rubbish. We’ve always had a go, and that’s why I think many fans are struggling so much with this season, when clearly we could and should have done better.

SS will need to weigh up the financial threat of keeping NC, which will impact beyond this renewal cycle.
 
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