Is it now a game of poker between SS and fans?

AngelBFC said:
I do know it Mosser . Plenty of the games have been boring. When we’ve played decent sides less so .

I haven’t seen a particularly noticeable drop in attendance other than for valid reason not many have sat at home instead of going to the game .
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See my post number 50 Angel, maybe from your seats you can’t see as clearly as we can in the south
 
TimperleyTangerine said:
I’ve no doubt that some will, and we’ve seen previously that a good number are just happy to have a match to go to and chat with old mates.

However, since he took over, we’ve added many new & younger fans. We all want to look forward to match day and enjoy the experience, but really how many have recently? That does not mean winning every match and being promoted, but competing and doing the best we can. Ultimately, our enjoyment of football is about what happens on the pitch.

The North Stand support has died this season, not because fans can’t be bothered, but because there is so little to get excited about. That’s indicative of how bad things have become.
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Spot on.
It’s the young lads that we will lose and that will be a disaster for the club.
 
TimperleyTangerine said:
And sadly it looks like any change might be too late, as it was last season. I just see next season as being even more challenging, with the teams coming down and those coming up.

It’d be very interesting to know just how many ST holders didn’t bother. I think fans deserve great credit for still attending and not chanting for Critchley out. Afterall, what the situation now is what we thought it would be many months ago.

Biggest sign for me is the death in the atmosphere. It should set alarms bells ringing at Board level.
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I have 3 and for a month 2 haven't been used by my nephews. They all of a sudden have other things to do. I only go because "it's what I do" but this last weekend I went to Suffolk and wasted 90mins of my break watching turgid football
 
20togo said:
Yes, agree with a lot of that but i still come back to how we play which is slow laboured sideways, backwards,possession football which pretty much goes nowhere until the big hoof comes along , petty much just like saturday to two not big forwards being marked by two giant centre halves. We never put any teams under sustained pressure because it's all about keeping possession of the ball in areas which are never gonna hurt the opposition. Most matches this season just simply haven't been enjoyable. And I think a lot of fans agree with me.
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But I still go back to my original point 20's which not a single poster on here and believe me I've been asking for months what sides are playing entertaining football?

If it was only us which are as boring as fuck or a few sides then maybe, there all the same.

Wigan away the other week must have passed the ball around defence for 90% of possession stats and speaking to their fans after the game they find the whole thing boring as hell.

We are not alone.
 
Insider said:
I'm one of the die-hard 5,000 and I'm certainly not embarassed about it.
@20togo, who's seen (very nearly) as many seasons as me, makes a good point about the difference between sh1t teams playing poor football and boring football. I've definitely seen more of the former than the latter but not sure I'd put this season, as whole, at the top of the boring list. I agree, this season, when we are boring, we are very, very boring but particularly at home we have still put in some decent performances even if overall that's in the minority.
We've done the boycott thing when it really mattered and as a consequence we still have a Club and we aren't going through the Bury FC scenario, thankfully.
So going NAPM, just because Critch isn't delivering exciting football, isnt something I'll be doing.
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I'm the same as you and I have seen some terrible seasons. But people wouldn't be going NAPM, those who don't buy season tickets will still attend some games and as Seasiderone says if we are winning then they will come regularly and buy tickets for each game. If we have another season like this or worse then they won't come so it's a risk. I think the next 5 games will tell us a lot. win them all and scrape in or just miss out then he will still be here. Capitulate and get 3 or 4 points and the crowd against him then who knows, but I still think that whatever happens he will still be our manager next season.
 
poolseasider said:
But I still go back to my original point 20's which not a single poster on here and believe me I've been asking for months what sides are playing entertaining football?

If it was only us which are as boring as fuck or a few sides then maybe, there all the same.

Wigan away the other week must have passed the ball around defence for 90% of possession stats and speaking to their fans after the game they find the whole thing boring as hell.

We are not alone.
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it's the balance between getting the job done, ie results and playing some decent football. I'd say a good few others have got the balance right much better than us. Is it 17 or 18 games we've now failed to score in? That equates to 45% of games. Simply not good enough.
 
Well SS does get most things wrong when it comes to the football side of business

'SS has intimated strongly that NC will be with us next season.' I rest my case
 
Martonmosser said:
The north stand is sold out in blocks A, B and C I believe. Did you see how many empty seats there were in those blocks yesterday cos from where I sit in the south it was a hell of a lot more than has been all season
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Sad to say it mate but after 20 mins or so my daughter pointed out that she could actually read ARMFIELD easily from the north. And you could too. Loads of regulars missing. I also thought ‘not a chance’ that the crowd was 10K plus. It looks like there was 1000 or so absent. Maybe 200 on holiday? Figures plucked from thin air a bit but there’s already people staying away.
Or maybe they’d fuked off already.
 
poolseasider said:
But I still go back to my original point 20's which not a single poster on here and believe me I've been asking for months what sides are playing entertaining football?

If it was only us which are as boring as fuck or a few sides then maybe, there all the same.

Wigan away the other week must have passed the ball around defence for 90% of possession stats and speaking to their fans after the game they find the whole thing boring as hell.

We are not alone.
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Peterborough were the best team I’ve seen this season.

Wigan away were also miles better than us at keeping possession but agree not particularly entertaining.
 
Sven said:
I’m leaning towards binning him too but there’s no guarantee of success with a new guy, it’s a gamble either way and Simon might choose to ride it out a bit longer. If he does keep him I’ll back the decision but with considerably less patience than I’ve had this season, it’s currently wearing very thin.

We’ll see what happens with the ST sales. I’d expect a drop off for a second season in League One after a disappointing season and I imagine the club will too. It will likely be budgeted for and will ultimately come off the playing budget. Win a few games and they’ll come back like they always do and paying full whack for the privilege, we’re a fickle bunch.
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If he fails this season which is currently on course and there's no real signs of improvement, he may well go and possibly should.

There's no guarantee of success with someone new but imagine if a Dobbie like figure was appointed, a popular figure or someone else exciting, a buzz created, a ST deal done as suggested and we make some good signings and are all together bouncing into the new season with record ST sales and a real posivity.

Let's just do it for that for once, we have barely created a buzz since SS was really here bar coming back from covid and after being promoted, all other mangers have been buzz killers and we haven't capitalised on growing the club.

It's about time we went down that route, grew the fanbase, focused on making moves that excited people and yes building a good side too, but that sort of energy in the stands can translate onto the pitch. Keeping bring unpopular people back is disastrous, they have to succeed to win people over and get far less time and energy from fans.
 
poolseasider said:
The most boring season ever what utter horseshite I think people have been watching Sky sports too much.

I've constantly asked this question on here and not a single person has ever come back with an answer.

Name all these entertaining sides that you've seen live?
Peterborough aside I'm struggling as it's 3rd division what do you expect?

Season ticket sales where always going to go down as fans get bored with Lge 1 so change the manager I still don't think we'll sell as many as this season.
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We will be buying our 4 season tickets
 
Loads of people went away for Easter, so that could explain some of the empty seats.
I reckon we have about 4k die-hard ST holders, who will renew every year.
Of the remaining 6k, we could easily lose half of them with Critchley still in post. So that’s approx. 30% drop.

When we first got Critchley, everyone was behind him, win lose or draw and that was evident from the relationship with the supporters.

2nd time around, he’d lost some of that support, but most were still willing to give him a chance of redemption.

At this point in the season, that relationship is strained, bordering on broken.

If he’s still around at the start of next season, a few losses or crap performances, and I expect any remaining patience will evaporate pretty damn quickly.
 
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It’s a tough but fair town and coming to a game is both time with your mates and if you’re a sandgrownun memories of your childhood but it’s a treat and as well as money it’s part of your ever more precious non-refundable time. We don’t expect a win every time but we do expect effort and seeing players develop before our eyes. Critchley has cost the fans time and money, and cost the owner even more of those commodities. He has achieved nothing in an entire season and his inability to do so gives little hope for success next season.
 
poolseasider said:
I find the whole league boring not just us as I tend to take my Tangerine spectacles off whilst watching games live.

That's why I constantly ask the question which teams are entertaining in this league and I really struggle to name them.

Winning sides yes but entertaining no.

Bolton for example play 3 at the back and we've beaten them twice and lost by 1 goal at there's and haven't impressed.

Team managers have this brilliant idea with fancy formations copied from the PL with average 3rd division players and it makes the whole thing boring.

Compare it to the Championship and it's day and night in Lge 1 but I still love going but lower my expectations to the quality that's on offer and won't change my view until I see the other 23 sides blow me away, aside from Peterborough no one has.
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Interesting that you suggest Bolton don’t play exciting football . Presumably you would consider their five goals on Monday a bit of a bore fest . I suppose having scored 19 goals more than us is also an indication of negative tactics maybe .

Or maybe not .
 
poolseasider said:
But I still go back to my original point 20's which not a single poster on here and believe me I've been asking for months what sides are playing entertaining football?

If it was only us which are as boring as fuck or a few sides then maybe, there all the same.

Wigan away the other week must have passed the ball around defence for 90% of possession stats and speaking to their fans after the game they find the whole thing boring as hell.

We are not alone.
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I think that the modern day fixation on performance measuring data is partly to blame for the game going the way it has. If I am a midfielder and one of my main performance stats is pass completion rate then I will protect my job by meeting that data requirement, even if it means boring the crowd who help pay my wages.
 
Olliesoffhistrolley said:
Interesting that you suggest Bolton don’t play exciting football . Presumably you would consider their five goals on Monday a bit of a bore fest . I suppose having scored 19 goals more than us is also an indication of negative tactics maybe .

Or maybe not .
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Maybe having better players than us,two goal scorers who've scored 10 or more helps.
We put four past Reading so not really a good comparison.
 
Unless you have the quality in midfield and a setup up top to create chances (which we don’t) it’s boring.

I love possession football but we play it for the sake of playing it. Whenever they’re under pressure or a little bit of movement is needed they shit themselves and hoof it!
 
poolseasider said:
Maybe having better players than us,two goal scorers who've scored 10 or more helps.
We put four past Reading so not really a good comparison.
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Bolton play high tempo and press well of the ball , they are also prepared to take risks. It doesn’t always pay off but in the main serves them very well and so much better to watch .We are slow and lethargic and most definitely risk adverse in our style of play, which doesn’t serve us well and is truly a dreadful spectacle . We look so much better when we press as a team and really get in the oppositions faces . Unfortunately it rarely happens under Critchley. I would much prefer to see us adopt tactics similar to Bolton who have a squad similar in quality imo.
 
I've not had a season ticket since before covid due to a combination of health, family and career issues. Seriously thinking about getting one for next season but waiting to see who the manager is, if it's Critchley I'll support him and buy a ticket. If it's not, it just depends who we bring in and whether I think they're capable of doing the job of getting us promoted
 
Olliesoffhistrolley said:
Bolton play high tempo and press well of the ball , they are also prepared to take risks. It doesn’t always pay off but in the main serves them very well and so much better to watch .We are slow and lethargic and most definitely risk adverse in our style of play, which doesn’t serve us well and is truly a dreadful spectacle . We look so much better when we press as a team and really get in the oppositions faces . Unfortunately it rarely happens under Critchley. I would much prefer to see us adopt tactics similar to Bolton who have a squad similar in quality imo.
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I think our squad is bang average and no suprise our best striker is out injured we've stopped scoring goals as the other 3 look poor.
Our most creative player has an off day is marked or fowled out of the game that's it we offer nothing.
Morgan is our best free kick taker is out and at least has a shot from outside the box but can blow hot and cold.

Nope I'd say Bolton have a far superior squad.
 
April13th1970 said:
I've not had a season ticket since before covid due to a combination of health, family and career issues. Seriously thinking about getting one for next season but waiting to see who the manager is, if it's Critchley I'll support him and buy a ticket. If it's not, it just depends who we bring in and whether I think they're capable of doing the job of getting us promoted
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So you’re considering buying a ticket if Critchley’s in charge? Do you think he can get us promoted? 🤔🤔🤔
 
poolseasider said:
But I still go back to my original point 20's which not a single poster on here and believe me I've been asking for months what sides are playing entertaining football?

If it was only us which are as boring as fuck or a few sides then maybe, there all the same.

Wigan away the other week must have passed the ball around defence for 90% of possession stats and speaking to their fans after the game they find the whole thing boring as hell.

We are not alone.
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Maybe if you have enough time on your hands try trawling through other teams message boards then and see how many fans of other clubs are considering not renewing. Modern football is just boring as fcuk, let’s get a young attacking manager in with some fresh ideas
 
Bend it like Suddick said:
I don't own the Club or poured millions into it, but its blindingly obvious that Critchleys success was with a recognised No2, and without one he's distinctly poor as a Manager.

ST's will be affected if he stays, so Sadler has very few options available if he doesn't want to haemorrhage money... either get him a No2 with experience and bin the iPad boys or get rid of Critchley.

Personally Id bin Critchley
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If a good No.2 comes in we are purely masking over the basic problem. If the No.1 can not see it himself, it would be a pointless exercise.
 
poolseasider said:
I think our squad is bang average and no suprise our best striker is out injured we've stopped scoring goals as the other 3 look poor.
Our most creative player has an off day is marked or fowled out of the game that's it we offer nothing.
Morgan is our best free kick taker is out and at least has a shot from outside the box but can blow hot and cold.

Nope I'd say Bolton have a far superior squad.
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I hear what you say injury wise, but no matter who is available Critchley is clueless at getting the best out of his squad . We have a decent squad used atrociously imo. Bolton have similar but Evatt has them playing to their strengths as do most sensible managers . Critchley is living in cloud cuckoo land .
 
Martonmosser said:
Maybe if you have enough time on your hands try trawling through other teams message boards then and see how many fans of other clubs are considering not renewing. Modern football is just boring as fcuk, let’s get a young attacking manager in with some fresh ideas
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Couldn't agree more and we need to stop this constantly trying to copy what Man City or Liverpool are doing.
 
Most will still be there and the season ticket baseline will hold….but the younger element will start to flake away …as will the less than 10 games a season crowd. Critchley staying will have an effect on Sadler’s match day revenue if things don’t buck up.
 
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I remember the days not that long ago that I would have done anything to have a club to go and watch. I don't intend to give that up because of a bad season.
I'm not particularly anti Critch to be fair but recently I've been left bored stiff. I have a 9 year old son though and I have no intention of stopping him from watching his club either just because Im not fully onboard with critches tactics.
And Although hardly thrilling it certainly is not the worst football I've seen in the 32 years I've been watching pool. There's been some real dross!
 
I hope SS has had a good return recently and despite the c. £5 million per season, he’s put a few quid aside for a summer war chest.
If he shows intent and we sign a few quality first team ready players, then maybe those saying they won’t renew under Critchley will have a change of mind.
Many will hold back to see if we sign decent players before they commit to a ST.
There’s nothing we can do about Critchley being here next season, cos SS is trusting him to get it right next season.
It’s one of those scenarios that will drag on.
We need a good performance and 3 points on Saturday just to paper over the crap that we’ve been paying good money to watch.
A good start n early goal to get the north going, cos the atmosphere is dwindling with the performances.
With regards to Critchley being here I think an experienced number 2 is crucial.
 
Sadler is a dilemma for me. The non football stuff is all ticking along nicely, it's what I suppose is stuff that is easy to have put right and to omprove and I don't think anyone isn't thankful for what he has done and is doing in regards this. However, he seems to have absolutely no clue whatsoever in how to run the football side of things and he has not improved since he took over, in fact he seems to be getting worse. He is very much "my way or the highway" he is obstinate, prone to making the same mistakes over and over and likes to see the supporters as the enemy because he has a rice paper defence to criticism. 5 years now and we are going to finish 9th or 10th in league 1 with a terrible manager, a demotivated squad and supporters who are bored to tears. He is supposed to be a supporter, but he doesn't act like one or he would see what is going on isn't what should be,

I worry not only will we have Critchley for at least another season but that we will replace him, when the time comes with someone equally monotonous as that appears to be what he wants. He needs to stand back from the managerial recruitment process and let those with experience handle it. We're going to end up with a great TG and new stand and be playing in League 2 in front of 5,000.
 
TimperleyTangerine said:
So, it’s now a game of poker and I don’t see fans blinking on ST purchases, unless NC is removed. Yes, there will be renewals, but not at the level he’s seen since buying the club. It won’t just be a few hundred.
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It will be down but not enough to matter. The next two home games will be fascinating as fail to win both and I think fans might start to show their real feelings towards Critchley.
 
tangerine_neil said:
Loads of people went away for Easter, so that could explain some of the empty seats.
I reckon we have about 4k die-hard ST holders, who will renew every year.
Of the remaining 6k, we could easily lose half of them with Critchley still in post. So that’s approx. 30% drop.

When we first got Critchley, everyone was behind him, win lose or draw and that was evident from the relationship with the supporters.

2nd time around, he’d lost some of that support, but most were still willing to give him a chance of redemption.

At this point in the season, that relationship is strained, bordering on broken.

If he’s still around at the start of next season, a few losses or crap performances, and I expect any remaining patience will evaporate pretty damn quickly.
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The crowd was pretty decent for the last home game considering, nearly 10k hoke fans announced... when people aren't exactly feeling it right now, but a bank holiday made sure it held up.

Shame we weren't going well and looking good or it could have been a real bumper crowd.
 
No. It is Critchley has next year to win promotion. Miss it by anything more than a whisker or underperform again and he will be gone.
 
For all the talk on here I can’t see ST sales being any more than 15-20% down.

That’s 1200-1600 tickets at an average of £350 (generous) a pop.

That’s just over £500k.

In SS‘s world that’s not going to impact his thinking.

The difference between this season being disastrous in some eyes and successful seems to be approximately 15 points. So it’s not unlikely SS has every faith in NC to achieve that next season.

He’s certainly not going to spend that 500k many times over to sack the man he’s building a long term plan with to bring in someone else and start the whole thing over again.

He‘ll also be conscious those same 1200-1600 fans (plus more) will be back paying higher prices on a game by game basis should we have a decent run.

This idea that SS is going to bow down to fan disenchantment after a slightly disappointing season is genuinely bizarre.
 
LA1 Seasider said:
For all the talk on here I can’t see ST sales being any more than 15-20% down.

That’s 1200-1600 tickets at an average of £350 (generous) a pop.

That’s just over £500k.

In SS‘s world that’s not going to impact his thinking.

The difference between this season being disastrous in some eyes and successful seems to be approximately 15 points. So it’s not unlikely SS has every faith in NC to achieve that next season.

He’s certainly not going to spend that 500k many times over to sack the man he’s building a long term plan with to bring in someone else and start the whole thing over again.

He‘ll also be conscious those same 1200-1600 fans (plus more) will be back paying higher prices on a game by game basis should we have a decent run.

This idea that SS is going to bow down to fan disenchantment after a slightly disappointing season is genuinely bizarre.
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It’s not about bowing down, it’s about doing the right thing for the team. It’ll get him nowhere putting it off, because ultimately he will sack him.
 
LA1 Seasider said:
Im not convinced changing things would be best for the team tbh.
Stability and consistency is needed.
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Yeh, I do agree. It is though putting off the inevitable, particularly as SS has stated the clear intention for next season. Under NC I just don’t see any chance of us being better than mid-table next season, as it will be tougher. Do we want to waste another season in false hope that NC can change his style. I think SS will stick with him for at least the first quarter of the season.
 
TimperleyTangerine said:
Yeh, I do agree. It is though putting off the inevitable, particularly as SS has stated the clear intention for next season. Under NC I just don’t see any chance of us being better than mid-table next season, as it will be tougher. Do we want to waste another season in false hope that NC can change his style. I think SS will stick with him for at least the first quarter of the season.
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Personally I think NC has done a fair job of pulling us out of a freefall caused by Appleton. Recovering from relegation isn’t easy - look at Wigan !
We’ve been there or thereabouts all season. I think a rebuild and a refresh is necessary on the playing staff side and I think some character is desperately lacking.
But some outgoings and Championship contracts ending should give us some wriggle room to bring some fresh energy in and some players on an upward trajectory like first time around under Critchley.
I’m actually really positive for next season and given SS has said promotion has to happen this season or next to avoid failure - everyone knows exactly where they stand.
 
I’d love to have stability and consistency, but not where stability equates to boring, and the only consistency is our inconsistency.

You build it around a manager worth the effort and reward with loyalty. Someone who has many positive qualities. That isn’t Critchley and never will be.
 
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