It appears that the Guardian/Observer is always right.

Curryman

Well-known member

I hate to say it, but Britain's doing OK. Even Germany envies us...​


For those of us who like to talk Britain down, all this good news is hard to take. The vaccination figures are shocking. Nearly 20 million first doses administered. A forward-thinking procurement plan. The leading large nation, far ahead of the US and, more gallingly for us frothing Remoaners, miles ahead of Europe. Nothing could be more depressing for the honest self-loathing liberal Brit. You know the type. Recycle assiduously but fly once a fortnight.

We can’t say we haven’t had a good run. The past few years have been wonderful. Any positive stories could be written off as a fluke or a statistical aberration. There has been abundant bad news to confirm what we already knew: Britain is a sad, grey little Plague Island in the Atlantic, incapable of relinquishing its past glories and heading full tilt towards irrelevance. Brexit has been Gloomster Glastonbury.

The early days of the pandemic were promising, too. We had the dithering over lockdown, the PPE fiasco and the Barnard Castle drive-by. All reinforced our narrative of total incompetence. A simple eye-roll was usually enough to convey your membership of the told-you-so club. What do you expect from 10 years of Tory rule? The turkeys voted for Christmas. It’s our children and grandchildren I’m worried about.
The self-loathers hadn’t had it so good since Suez. But this year life is increasingly bewildering. The test-and-trace fiasco was comforting. It proved that when the Tories combine public money with private businesses, an orgy of cronyism ensues. Yet the vaccine programme has turned out to be a slick collaboration between hard-nosed businesspeople, big pharma and the academic establishment. It’s almost as confusing as Gillian Anderson playing Margaret Thatcher. Even Private Eye conceded that they’d been “harsh” on vaccine tsar Kate Bingham.

It turns out it might not only be vaccinations that Britain is excelling at. An article in the Economist, not normally given to jingoism, pointed out the UK’s success in cutting carbon emissions. For several months last year the UK burned no coal. It looks likely that soon it won’t burn any at all. You might argue we’ve outsourced emissions to China, but so has everyone else. The bitterest pill is that we’re beating Germany. Germany, the nation self-loathing Brits revere more than any other. Germany, which welcomes every immigrant, has sensible governments, and has only ever craved peaceful European integration.
It transpires that several of the dozen or so vaccines Germany thought to order have been ensnared in red tape. Surely the pandemic can’t have exposed shortcomings in having a pan-continental uber-bureaucracy?

Related: How the EU’s vaccine effort turned into a crisis – podcast
Wasn’t all that technik meant to lead to a bit of vorsprung? The front page of Bild, one of Germany’s main tabloids, last Wednesday read “Britain, We Envy You”. While Eeyorish Mrs Merkel warns of yet another lockdown, with less than 10% of her population vaccinated, our flaxen-haired prime minister leads his nation towards a summer of Weimar excess. Mutti, how could you forsake your fans in Islington like this?

The American economics professor Tyler Cowen, in a blog about the Economist piece, said Britain was “grossly underrated”, also pointing out our performance in AI and London’s enduring appeal as a global city. Our bond yields are substantially higher than Germany’s, indicating that hopes of recovery are better advanced. At the time of writing it looks as though the European Football Championships, originally to be played across the continent, will be held solely in England, a neat metaphor for this confusing year.
There are glimmers of light for gloomsters. Amsterdam has taken over as Europe’s share-trading capital? Tell me more. Lorry delays and export nightmares? Give it to me neat. But everywhere we look there are questions without easy answers. Does Ed Davey deserve some credit? Is Matt Hancock not the literal devil? Is the UK actually… good?

We must be thankful for the cricketers. Presumably reading about the vaccination rates from their bubble in Gujarat, they took the trouble to engineer one of their most craven defeats in memory. When everything else is looking up, it’s nice to have failures you can rely on.

Ed Cumming. 28/02/2021.
 
We do some things better than other countries and we do some other things worse than in other countries - that is a balanced view. The trouble with the sort of article that you have posted is that it crosses the line from balanced comment into nationalism / jingoism and a seeming hatred of Germany (for some reason). Not everything is perfect here, just as not everything is perfect in Germany. I have noticed on here and in the article above, that anyone who makes a valid criticism of the UK is somehow painted as a traitor of some sort. For me this is a very dangerous mode of thinking and one that should be challenged.

Personally speaking I think that one of the greatest things about this country is that we have always rejected extreme governments either from the left or the right. Historically we have never had anything more left wing than a centre left government and we have never had anything more right wing than a centre right government. That has lead to a kind of stability that makes the UK a great place to do business which in turn has lead to great wealth for our country an people. However, we currently have a sort of nationalist government which if left unchecked could ultimately be a very bad thing for the UK economically because it is ideologically driven rather than pragmatically driven (the British way is usually a pragmatic approach, hence our success in business). IMO this type of political leadership is not really truly a 'British government' in a historical context. Nationalism, for me at least, is always a bad thing whether it be Hitler, Mussolini, the SNP, or the current boosterism that we are seeing. They are all cut from the same cloth of nationalism / jingoism and I for one do not want a UK government of this type.
 
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The O/P falls into the simple trap - conflating legitimate criticism of the government with criticism of Britain per se. It is a tried and tested way of population control by populist governments and their shills in the press.

Populism, in all its flag-waving glory, relies on people like you to believe any criticism is in some way unpatriotic. Have you noticed it is now de rigueur for any government minister to have the Union flag as a back-drop as a signifier of `patriotism`. You are being groomed not to think critically, and to doff cap and touch forelock at the sight of the flag.

There is a problem with this type of patriotism; it starts with country-dancing and ends up with barb-wire and guns.

Then it is called nationalism.

And to be clear, Britain is a fantastic place to live; we can acknowledge that and still criticise the institutions.

I see the O/P has already managed to confuse some of the more challenged posters - Mates can`t understand who has written it, and Scara has no grasp of irony, and is already frothing over the title.

Easy isn`t it to whip up a frenzy from the hard of thinking, eh?
 
I think it's an article that decided what the bottom line and the "twist" were, and then worked backwards.

Of course we are doing well on vaccination - it's about the only thing that is COVID related that Government Ministers haven't interfered with, which helps. And the EU have struggled, by comparison. But a day will come quite soon when vaccination is done, the mutual back-slapping stops and the wider economic reality starts to bite. It might start as early as Wednesday, actually.

I'm also proud that we are setting a good example on carbon emissions. Unfortunately we are merely mitigating the excesses of far bigger and more influential nations than ourselves, who are going in the opposite direction. So while we should acknowledge our efforts in putting our finger in the dyke, it isn't going to stop anyone getting wet.

I do genuinely fear for the country's future. The decision to leave the EU will harm us economically and strategically. It may even make us less safe. At home, our population gets progressively less well educated, and our poorer classes fall further and further behind. We need strong and enlightened political leadership to steer us out of the difficulties we face. We have Boris Johnson and the sorriest excuse for a Cabinet I've seen in my lifetime. You have to wave the Union Jack pretty hard to compensate for all that.
 
Good post Curryman. Most people would read that article and realise it's a humorous and slightly irreverent dig at the po-faced socialists who derive pleasure from any hint of failure experienced by their country. But the reactions remain the same. Still po-faced, still desperate for Boris to make a mess of governing the country. You can almost feel the bile in some of the above responses. Makes me wonder if these people could ever muster a smile in their sad little lives.
 
Good post Curryman. Most people would read that article and realise it's a humorous and slightly irreverent dig at the po-faced socialists who derive pleasure from any hint of failure experienced by their country. But the reactions remain the same. Still po-faced, still desperate for Boris to make a mess of governing the country. You can almost feel the bile in some of the above responses. Makes me wonder if these people could ever muster a smile in their sad little lives.
A rather asinine and bilious post for one decrying the same in others.
 
What an idiot you are. Tell me how my first post can pay any attention to your figures when at that point you hadn't even posted them! And FY8 just jumps on the Cat bandwagon because it's what he does.
There you go again, to easily triggered.
 
In the UK, I don't think so. A quick google helps.
If wanting to keep the Royal family, the class system and the nepotism and inherited wealth that goes with it is the only way to be classed as a patriot in this country then it's not for me.
Fortunately that isn't the case, so I will keep a smile on my face as enjoy a bit of sunshine in the garden and get on with my sad little life.
Enjoy your sunny Sunday everyone whatever your political leanings may be.
 
OH, I did enjoy reading that it made so much sense. It is not always perfect the Cummings incident was a prime example which did not help anyone. As the article shows we have so much to be proud about, for example, leading the world in vaccinating against Covid is an achievement to marvel at. There are indeed a small number of our population who loathe this country and all its wonderful achievements, they are quick to highlight the bad things and always unwilling to acknowledge any successes . It has even been argued on this board that a few such posters are amongst us. It must be a miserable life if all you can do is hate.
 
OH, I did enjoy reading that it made so much sense. It is not always perfect the Cummings incident was a prime example which did not help anyone. As the article shows we have so much to be proud about, for example, leading the world in vaccinating against Covid is an achievement to marvel at. There are indeed a small number of our population who loathe this country and all its wonderful achievements, they are quick to highlight the bad things and always unwilling to acknowledge any successes . It has even been argued on this board that a few such posters are amongst us. It must be a miserable life if all you can do is hate.
I was called asinine and bilious when I said the same. Still, it might be worse. We could be misanthropic, cynical, fatalistic lugubrious, melancholy, despairing left wing nut jobs.
 
‘Our bond yields are substantially higher than Germany’s, indicating that hopes of recovery are better advanced’

That’s not how bond yields work. Higher bond yields = higher cost of government borrowing, reflecting lower confidence in public finances/economy
 
‘Our bond yields are substantially higher than Germany’s, indicating that hopes of recovery are better advanced’

That’s not how bond yields work. Higher bond yields = higher cost of government borrowing, reflecting lower confidence in public finances/economy
That can't be correct, the Observer is right. It's a good job it wasn't from the Mail on Sunday or else I would have had a ton by now.😲
 
I was called asinine and bilious when I said the same. Still, it might be worse. We could be misanthropic, cynical, fatalistic lugubrious, melancholy, despairing left wing nut jobs.
Don't cry, apparently it was fine for you to call people bilious, po-faced and sad with no provocation.
 
It would also appear that 20s is the only poster on this thread telling people what they're allowed to believe in.
Cat can believe in what he wants but as much as he throws out the accusations of right wing, racists and suchlike it's equally reasonable to throw the accusations back at him regarding his extreme left wing views as proven by his use of the communist symbol.
 
I do genuinely fear for the country's future. The decision to leave the EU will harm us economically and strategically. It may even make us less safe. At home, our population gets progressively less well educated, and our poorer classes fall further and further behind. We need strong and enlightened political leadership to steer us out of the difficulties we face. We have Boris Johnson and the sorriest excuse for a Cabinet I've seen in my lifetime. You have to wave the Union Jack pretty hard to compensate for all that.

It's unbelievable that an educated person can come out with nonsense like that. Leaving the EU will harm us strategically? Go on then, enlighten us as to the strategic suffering we're going through as a result of the decision to leave the EU. As for making us less safe, that would be because the self-styled guardians of Europe in their cosy offices in Brussels are intentionally withholding information on terrorist activities as well as on convicted murderers and rapists roaming freely in England. Justify that for us as the decision of an enlightened organisation. While you're at it tell us about the population of this country getting progressively less well educated. Less educated than whom? The people of Dublin? The people of Czechia? And the poorer classes are falling further behind whom exactly? Those in Lithuania? Latvia? Poorer class in this country means only having an iPhone 12, only owning a 65 inch OLED tv and only going on holiday to Florida once a year. Ever thought, as the OP says, the UK might actually be good?
 
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Ed Cumming, sometime media advisor to Evgeney Lebedev, Boris’s bestie and a Russky to boot. Hmmm, has Boris been dipping into his pocket money again
 
No, it's bullying of other posters that does that.
Not bullying at all. If it was bullying then I'd consider myself up there with anyone else for being bullied considering my support of BSA and my family over the last ten years plus. Oh, that was something you brought up a week or so ago and others have done within the last week or so. You nasty bully.
 
Not bullying at all. If it was bullying then I'd consider myself up there with anyone else for being bullied considering my support of BSA and my family over the last ten years plus. Oh, that was something you brought up a week or so ago and others have done within the last week or so. You nasty bully.
Which is just a little different than constantly calling a poster a liar every time they post.

Obviously you don't consider yourself a bully and to be fair Cat doesn't seem to care that much about your attempts.
 
Which is just a little different than constantly calling a poster a liar every time they post.

Obviously you don't consider yourself a bully and to be fair Cat doesn't seem to care that much about your attempts.
You're right it is a little different. I'm just one poster whereas I had a pack including yourself coming at me.
 
Says who? All the free thinkers who aren't communists? Telling communists what they can and can't do. From their democracies that provide freedom of choice?

This might be the first ever link to the Morning Star on this site...
 
Says who? All the free thinkers who aren't communists? Telling communists what they can and can't do. From their democracies that provide freedom of choice?

This might be the first ever link to the Morning Star on this site...
says me.....you asked the question so I assume you wanted an answer/opinion? I have never met a socialist who I would regard as a Patriot
 
I've never met Clement Atlee, but I've got to assume he was patriotic in some way. And relatively socialist.
Fought at Gallipoli in WW1, worked closely with Churchill as deputy PM during WW2, led the government that created the NHS.

Clearly not a patch on Blood's patriotic record though (gets a bit teary when the Queen is on TV).
 
Funnily enough, I've never met a fan of Ant and Dec who I would credit with fully-formed views on concepts such as socialism and patriotism. 😀
 
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