Its impossible to please Labour

T

Threepeaksphil

Well-known member
I find the labour front bench rather depressing!! Ok they suggested the windfall tax so fine to try to get credit for that but why not welcome what is a big package of messages from Rishi. People do get fed up with this Yah Bo politics.
 
Threepeaksphil said:
I find the labour front bench rather depressing!! Ok they suggested the windfall tax so fine to try to get credit for that but why not welcome what is a big package of messages from Rishi. People do get fed up with this Yah Bo politics.
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Because Labour and the Libdems have been told by the Tories for weeks that it was not possible, they all voted against it only LAST WEEK. Now they are supposed say, "well done, old man?".

Sure it had nothing to do with getting Partygate off the front pages? Cos I'm not.
 
Threepeaksphil said:
I find the labour front bench rather depressing!! Ok they suggested the windfall tax so fine to try to get credit for that but why not welcome what is a big package of messages from Rishi. People do get fed up with this Yah Bo politics.
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I think they do. In interviews I've seen, they've welcomed the adoption of their idea.. It's the fact that Johnson has given the go ahead because he's in the shit rather than because he thinks it's the right thing to do that's annoying. There was no way this package would have happened quite so quickly if the Sue Gray report hadn't have been released.
 
Generally I support the measures but I do have slight reservations about this sort of thing. People will need support this winter but it does seem to be a bit of a blunt instrument, with many very rich people getting help which they don't really need. And it is always very easy to give money but stopping it again is always problematic. It could also add to inflationary pressures creating more need for further measures later on. I hope that Sunak doesn't get addicted to this sort of thing.
I thought Labour and Lib Dems (and SNP) had generally welcomed the package in a - I told you so - kind of way
 
southshorepool said:
I think they do. In interviews I've seen, they've welcomed the adoption of their idea.. It's the fact that Johnson has given the go ahead because he's in the shit rather than because he thinks it's the right thing to do that's annoying. There was no way this package would have happened quite so quickly if the Sue Gray report hadn't have been released.
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🤣 see you next season, our politics are miles apart but you are a top bloke 👍🏻
 
When did the Tories introduce anything that didn't involve a complete u-turn or picking up on another party's policy?

Too long in power leads to a complete dearth of ideas.
 
There's something badly wrong with a political system in which the parties not in power automatically disagree with every government policy just because 'that's what the opposition does'. The latest package of measures is way more generous than all the opposition parties envisaged but they still moan about it. I don't care who is in power at any given time, party politics should be better than that.
 
tommytwojags said:
There's something badly wrong with a political system in which the parties not in power automatically disagree with every government policy just because 'that's what the opposition does'. The latest package of measures is way more generous than all the opposition parties envisaged but they still moan about it. I don't care who is in power at any given time, party politics should be better than that.
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Too true, it all get's a bit too much like school playground arguments at times, that's why I show very little interest in these things.
 
tommytwojags said:
There's something badly wrong with a political system in which the parties not in power automatically disagree with every government policy just because 'that's what the opposition does'. The latest package of measures is way more generous than all the opposition parties envisaged but they still moan about it. I don't care who is in power at any given time, party politics should be better than that.
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Way more? It's exactly what the Labour Party asked for five months ago, and that this lot voted against only last week, as impossible to do as it would stifle investment.

An obvious deflection tactic from the cluster fuck that is their shambolic, law breaking administration.
 
tommytwojags said:
There's something badly wrong with a political system in which the parties not in power automatically disagree with every government policy just because 'that's what the opposition does'. The latest package of measures is way more generous than all the opposition parties envisaged but they still moan about it. I don't care who is in power at any given time, party politics should be better than that.
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It’s called politics and it’s ridiculous
 
Oh, yes, well done Rishi, take tax from energy companies, pass on to customers to pay .......... Energy companies. Its three card shuffle.

In other news, would you like Labour to commend the Prime Minister for changing the Ministerial code so that a) a Minister does not need to resign if caught lying and b) he can only be investigated himself if he agrees, despite assuring his Ethics Czar that he could investigate whatever he wanted last year.

We slip closer and closer to Fascism. Protesting illegal, gerrymandering seats, threatening MPs, corruption on a scale never seen in the UK before, bungs to Newspapers to support the Government. It is left to all those decent Tory voters to make their feelings known to their MP, two more years of this and I can see the GE being postponed indefinitely. If any of you haven't seen it, there is a passionate video from a SNP MP, Mhairi Black on the slip towards the F word. Ignore her politics and sense check the content.

Don't mention the F word
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
Generally I support the measures but I do have slight reservations about this sort of thing. People will need support this winter but it does seem to be a bit of a blunt instrument, with many very rich people getting help which they don't really need. And it is always very easy to give money but stopping it again is always problematic. It could also add to inflationary pressures creating more need for further measures later on. I hope that Sunak doesn't get addicted to this sort of thing.
I thought Labour and Lib Dems (and SNP) had generally welcomed the package in a - I told you so - kind of way
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It's good the £400 comes off the bill from autumn unlike the £650 which will be paid into bank accounts July and Autumn. There will be the new TV temptation fuelling inflation but I think that is a very small danger in terms of inflation.

What people forget is this basically hasn't dealt with the current crisis but will kick in with the next price increase in October, meaning it will probably cover that rise and not impact on recent rises. So if households were feeling it in April they'll feel the same (and food inflation ) worse in the autumn.

These payments will see the energy companies regroup and go hell for leather to get the price cap increased by more than they had wanted initially under the guise of investment.

This should have been done when Labour suggested and implemented from Spring.
 
To be honest I think we’re all looking for a sincerity in politics that doesn’t often exist.
With regards to the Tories as is, I think we all know the lies and duplicity this government is capable of. Unfortunately the electorate seem able to tolerate this.

Questions have to be asked why this is. I don’t think the majority of us are being hoodwinked. I think the majority still dont trust a Labour government.
 
Tangerinemoss said:
Oh, yes, well done Rishi, take tax from energy companies, pass on to customers to pay .......... Energy companies. Its three card shuffle.

In other news, would you like Labour to commend the Prime Minister for changing the Ministerial code so that a) a Minister does not need to resign if caught lying and b) he can only be investigated himself if he agrees, despite assuring his Ethics Czar that he could investigate whatever he wanted last year.

We slip closer and closer to Fascism. Protesting illegal, gerrymandering seats, threatening MPs, corruption on a scale never seen in the UK before, bungs to Newspapers to support the Government. It is left to all those decent Tory voters to make their feelings known to their MP, two more years of this and I can see the GE being postponed indefinitely. If any of you haven't seen it, there is a passionate video from a SNP MP, Mhairi Black on the slip towards the F word. Ignore her politics and sense check the content.

Don't mention the F word
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Thanks for that. Yes, that speech is bang on the money.
 
Not sure I entirely agree with the OP.

The Labour Party members were very cross with Keir Starmer for not being more 'against' HMG during Covid.

I think we are seeing normality return as a result of the life and death phase of Covid passing.

Regarding this proposal; I'm really concerned with it for a lot of reasons - one of them being the impact of subsidising private companies with public money, and not giving equitable payments across the board. It is absolutely inevitable that people in low/middle pay will resent the fact that the UC recipients are getting a pre-Christmas £650 no strings attached windfall (which is about £1000 before tax and NI) for not working, whilst they get nothing but the bill.

We are in a very sticky place and I can see it getting ugly.
 
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TSSeasider said:
Not sure I entirely agree with the OP.

The Labour Party members were very cross with Keir Starter for not being more 'against' HMG during Covid.

I think we are setting normality return as a result of the life and death phase of Covid passing.

Regarding this proposal; I'm really concerned with it for a lot of reasons - one of them being the impact of subsidising private companies with public money, and not giving equitable payments across the board. It is absolutely inevitable that people in low/middle pay will resent the fact that the UC recipients are getting a pre-Christmas £650 no strings attached windfall (which is about £1000 before tax and NI) for not working, whilst they get nothing but the bill.

We are in a very sticky place and I can see it getting ugly.
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You paint UC as if it is only paid to the unemployed. It isn't. You also, intentionally, paint a picture of unemployed people getting this 'windfall' and shouting "hey lads hey, let's party." Which is far from the reality. I sense a certain bitterness about poor people being helped out in straightened times.
 
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1966_and_all_that said:
You paint UC as if it is only paid to the unemployed. It isn't. You also, intentionally, paint a picture of unemployed people getting this 'windfall' and shouting "her lads hey, let's party." Which is far from the reality. I sense a certain bitterness about poor people being helped out in straightened times.
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Sorry 66 but sometimes ‘ hey lads let’s party!’ is what happens in situations like this. It’s not always far from reality.

Sometimes yes, but sometimes no.

It isn’t always about bitterness either. It’s about the reality of life, it’s about when people start to decide that work doesnt always pay. That’s when we get in deeper on the dependency train. I was speaking to somebody yesterday who falls into the 650 and 400 bracket who said about the 650, that’s Christmas sorted then !

A cynical viewpoint isn’t always an inaccurate, bitter or selfish viewpoint.Balance is needed.
 
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Lala said:
Sorry 66 but sometimes ‘ hey lads let’s party!’ is what happens in situations like this. It’s not always far from reality.

Sometimes yes, but sometimes no.

It isn’t always about bitterness either. It’s about the reality of life, it’s about when people start to decide that work doesnt always pay. That’s when we get in deeper on the dependency train. I was speaking to somebody yesterday who falls into the 650 and 400 bracket who said about the 650, that’s Christmas sorted then !

A cynical viewpoint isn’t always an inaccurate, bitter or selfless viewpoint.Balance is needed.
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I was referring to the way that TSSeasider phrased his post. This windfall is being shared out universally - to rich and poor alike. Sunak pointed out that this approach keeps the cost of distribution down. Obviously some will have the, 'let's party' attitude but for millions it will be a Godsend.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
I was referring to the way that TSSeasider phrased his post. This windfall is being shared out universally - to rich and poor alike. Sunak pointed out that this approach keeps the cost of distribution down. Obviously some will have the, 'let's party' attitude but for millions it will be a Godsend.
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Yes, but the 650 isn’t universally distributed which was TS’s point.

For me l am personally over the moon with the 400 paid directly onto my energy account. It will make a big difference this winter, especially as I have a daughter currently working from home bumping up the bills. I’m not on the cusp of going under, but some who work, don’t recieve UC and are on that cusp seem to lose out to me.
They are the ones with a reasonable viewpoint that they are working for nothing.
Its balance and the bigger picture that may/will cause bitterness here.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
You paint UC as if it is only paid to the unemployed. It isn't. You also, intentionally, paint a picture of unemployed people getting this 'windfall' and shouting "hey lads hey, let's party." Which is far from the reality. I sense a certain bitterness about poor people being helped out in straightened times.
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@Lala seems to appreciate the point I was making better than you have.

You've absolutely no idea about my personal circumstances but choose to add a whole load of emotional motivation to what I posted when there really isn't any.

At a time when people who are not earning a great deal feel that those not earning (and by implication not contributing) are getting treated 'better' than them, there is going to an element of "what's the point?"

At that stage, there is going to be problems.
 
TSSeasider said:
@Lala seems to appreciate the point I was making better than you have.

You've absolutely no idea about my personal circumstances but choose to add a whole load of emotional motivation to what I posted when there really isn't any.

At a time when people who are not earning a great deal feel that those not earning (and by implication not contributing) are getting treated 'better' than them, there is going to an element of "what's the point?"

At that stage, there is going to be problems.
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I stand by my interpretation of your post. I also think Lala's point is overstated. This move will help millions in a time of great difficulty. If some see it as a cheap way of pissing it up a wall then that is their issue. The principle and the intent of the awards are sound.
 
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Tangerinemoss said:
Oh, yes, well done Rishi, take tax from energy companies, pass on to customers to pay .......... Energy companies. Its three card shuffle.

In other news, would you like Labour to commend the Prime Minister for changing the Ministerial code so that a) a Minister does not need to resign if caught lying and b) he can only be investigated himself if he agrees, despite assuring his Ethics Czar that he could investigate whatever he wanted last year.

We slip closer and closer to Fascism. Protesting illegal, gerrymandering seats, threatening MPs, corruption on a scale never seen in the UK before, bungs to Newspapers to support the Government. It is left to all those decent Tory voters to make their feelings known to their MP, two more years of this and I can see the GE being postponed indefinitely. If any of you haven't seen it, there is a passionate video from a SNP MP, Mhairi Black on the slip towards the F word. Ignore her politics and sense check the content.

Don't mention the F word
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Johnson’s changing of the Ministerial code should set alarm bells ringing! especially referring to his move to remove all references to integrity, objectivity, accountability, transparency, honesty and leadership in the public interest.
Whist he comes across as he always has done as a likeable buffoon, in reality he’s a rather dangerous man. Whether in an interview or in the Commons, the disarming smirk crosses his face, a notable trait of a manipulative person, or even a despot already in the making.
 
TSSeasider said:
Not sure I entirely agree with the OP.

The Labour Party members were very cross with Keir Starmer for not being more 'against' HMG during Covid.

I think we are seeing normality return as a result of the life and death phase of Covid passing.

Regarding this proposal; I'm really concerned with it for a lot of reasons - one of them being the impact of subsidising private companies with public money, and not giving equitable payments across the board. It is absolutely inevitable that people in low/middle pay will resent the fact that the UC recipients are getting a pre-Christmas £650 no strings attached windfall (which is about £1000 before tax and NI) for not working, whilst they get nothing but the bill.

We are in a very sticky place and I can see it getting ugly.
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Two thirds of UC recipients are working on low pay.
 
td53 said:
What would you replace it with?
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PR.
Then you get the best from each party it works in other countries the Jocks have it up the road so why not, this two party system in this country is rubbish we know the result of the next election before it's run red or blue.
Why can't Greens or Libs for example be involved in running the country so when you go to the ballot box your vote counts it doesn't in this country most MP's are in safe seats so what we end up is the shower of shite we currently have on the front benches awful.
 
poolseasider said:
PR.
Then you get the best from each party it works in other countries the Jocks have it up the road so why not, this two party system in this country is rubbish we know the result of the next election before it's run red or blue.
Why can't Greens or Libs for example be involved in running the country so when you go to the ballot box your vote counts it doesn't in this country most MP's are in safe seats so what we end up is the shower of shite we currently have on the front benches awful.
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The liberals were involved in running the country from 2010-15. That went well 😀.
 
poolseasider said:
PR.
Then you get the best from each party it works in other countries the Jocks have it up the road so why not, this two party system in this country is rubbish we know the result of the next election before it's run red or blue.
Why can't Greens or Libs for example be involved in running the country so when you go to the ballot box your vote counts it doesn't in this country most MP's are in safe seats so what we end up is the shower of shite we currently have on the front benches awful.
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Yep. I think we desperately need political/democratic reform.
 
Threepeaksphil said:
I find the labour front bench rather depressing!! Ok they suggested the windfall tax so fine to try to get credit for that but why not welcome what is a big package of messages from Rishi. People do get fed up with this Yah Bo politics.
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Because they are the desperate party and have been for ages. Bit like most of the desperate and constant sniping from the usual suspects on here. Completely tiresome and incapable of saying well done to anything that goes against their dyed in the wool political views.
 
Scaramanga said:
Because they are the desperate party and have been for ages. Bit like most of the desperate and constant sniping from the usual suspects on here. Completely tiresome and incapable of saying well done to anything that goes against their dyed in the wool political views.
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Says a usual suspect.
 
Please Labour supporters on here ? No no have fun and piss them off big time knowing that their votes will count for nothing at the 2024 GE as the Tories win again. Even they know that is their destiny HA ! HA !😜😜😜😜😜🤣🤣🤣
 
Trammo said:
Please Labour supporters on here ? No no have fun and piss them off big time knowing that their votes will count for nothing at the 2024 GE as the Tories win again. Even they know that is their destiny HA ! HA !😜😜😜😜😜🤣🤣🤣
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If you think another Tory victory is good for anyone, let alone the country, you seriously need to seek medical assistance.

This country is being completely destroyed by these corrupt idiots.
 
Wizaard said:
If you think another Tory victory is good for anyone, let alone the country, you seriously need to seek medical assistance.

This country is being completely destroyed by these corrupt idiots.
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I'm no fan of Johnson and his bunch of clowns. Possibly only Sunak gives me a modicum of optimism, and it isn't very much at all.
Then I look at the opposition benches and get the same sinking feeling. I think Starmer has been a huge disappointment.
It's a pitiful looking bunch in UK politics at the moment. I'm pretty much done with politics as it stands and I can't see me voting at the next GE
 
RUSTY_2_STANDS said:
I'm no fan of Johnson and his bunch of clowns. Possibly only Sunak gives me a modicum of optimism, and it isn't very much at all.
Then I look at the opposition benches and get the same sinking feeling. I think Starmer has been a huge disappointment.
It's a pitiful looking bunch in UK politics at the moment. I'm pretty much done with politics as it stands and I can't see me voting at the next GE
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You're right in no one is inspiring, but theres obvious evidence that this current bunch are causing great damage. He may be uninspiring, but Starmer will be working for the country and not himself like the current charlatan.
 
Wizaard said:
You're right in no one is inspiring, but theres obvious evidence that this current bunch are causing great damage. He may be uninspiring, but Starmer will be working for the country and not himself like the current charlatan.
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Sorry but I'm not convinced Starmer would be. I just don't trust or have any faith in any of them.
I think Starmer would be a bit more 'statesmanlike' than bumbling Johnson, but I also think my cat would be so that isn't saying much.
Time will tell if my pessimism is wrong. One things for sure, Starmer will never have a better chance of becoming PM.
He needs to up his game and grab that chance with both hands.
 
RUSTY_2_STANDS said:
Sorry but I'm not convinced Starmer would be. I just don't trust or have any faith in any of them.
I think Starmer would be a bit more 'statesmanlike' than bumbling Johnson, but I also think my cat would be so that isn't saying much.
Time will tell if my pessimism is wrong. One things for sure, Starmer will never have a better chance of becoming PM.
He needs to up his game and grab that chance with both hands.
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And this is Boris' tactics. They're all as bad as each other, so carry on voting for me because I'm a character.

Except all politicians are NOT the same. This one is an absolute liar, presiding over a complete shambles and taking away democratic rights every day by stealth. He's dangerous.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
I stand by my interpretation of your post. I also think Lala's point is overstated. This move will help millions in a time of great difficulty. If some see it as a cheap way of pissing it up a wall then that is their issue. The principle and the intent of the awards are sound.
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Well you're utterly wrong.

Given my 3 siblings are on UC, my brother in law is on UC and my late sister and mother were entirely dependent on the state for their incomes, I am not in the slightest bit bitter about them receiving £1000 extra on top of the last two year's extras. I also know which of them will spend it wisely and which of them will essentially piss it up the wall.

But I'm in a better position than most; there will be plenty who just miss out and will feel an element of resentment as they are having the same extra costs (more if your include the NI rise) and they've not been given it, but know they will have to pay extra long term for it.
 
TSSeasider said:
Well you're utterly wrong.

Given my 3 siblings are on UC, my brother in law is on UC and my late sister and mother were entirely dependent on the state for their incomes, I am not in the slightest bit bitter about them receiving £1000 extra on top of the last two year's extras. I also know which of them will spend it wisely and which of them will essentially piss it up the wall.

But I'm in a better position than most; there will be plenty who just miss out and will feel an element of resentment as they are having the same extra costs (more if your include the NI rise) and they've not been given it, but know they will have to pay extra long term for it.
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Well said. Once again the Tory lie that ALL benefit recipients are feckless chancers being writ large.

Two thirds of recipients of UC are working, being paid minimum wage and getting a top up to a meagre standard of living that has been deliberately eroded by policies such as freezing benefit rates or uprating well below inflation.

We've had a decade of deliberately reducing the value of benefits, that include payments to the most vulnerable in society, whether that be the disabled, or pensioners.
 
TSSeasider said:
Well you're utterly wrong.

Given my 3 siblings are on UC, my brother in law is on UC and my late sister and mother were entirely dependent on the state for their incomes, I am not in the slightest bit bitter about them receiving £1000 extra on top of the last two year's extras. I also know which of them will spend it wisely and which of them will essentially piss it up the wall.

But I'm in a better position than most; there will be plenty who just miss out and will feel an element of resentment as they are having the same extra costs (more if your include the NI rise) and they've not been given it, but know they will have to pay extra long term for it.
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What do you mean miss out? It's a universal benefit.
 
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