I've said all along

Insider

Well-known member
I think our wage bill looks "realistic" and even if not accurate perhaps indicative.
Of course it further dispells the myth that Critch has had money thrown at him to build a squad. The top earners are pre-Critch and the fact that the wages under Critch are "less generous" would also suggest that someone at Board level took the wage cap at least semi-serious.
 

Seasider3610

Well-known member
It's a weak, weak league and given the squad of players the club has assembled promotion was a realistic expectation

Brilliant performance again today against what was a tough team on paper

Just goes to show how good we can look when the shackles are loosened and shows again what a fantastic job Simon Sadler has done in backing the coach with considerable investment

With so many players out injured we are now seeing the benefits of Sadler’s spending power

We really are lucky to have him

I don't think we have ever had such investment from our owner

Was told today from someone in the know that we have the 3rd highest wage budget in the league

Isn't it fabulous

Utp ..

Ton up Phil 🏏
 

Chunkylad

Well-known member
I’d rather read Phil’s observations than anything you have to offer Tango1953. At least he has an opinion and understands Football, I invariably agree with him.
Lol damming praise indeed!
Does Phil think Yates is overrated as well?
 

B_Side_The_C_Side

Well-known member
I would take some of these figures with a pinch of salt as they still have players who left their clubs last season, still being paid by their original clubs....

Supposedly Mesut Ozil is still playing at Arsenal and David Nugent is on £12,000 a week and one of the highest paid players at PKE...... 🤔

I would (guess) they get football clubs P&L sheets which show the wage bill.
They divide the amount on the balance sheet with the number of players.....and then just even it out depending on where that player is in his career or where they have been before...

I mean......C.J. Hamilton is on £1,400 a week...£73k a year......🤔.....really
He came from Mansfield and according to the same site, 50% of those players are on £2,000pw - £3,000pw and that's League 2.....🙄
Would he have really gone up a league and taken a 50% pay cut...?
 

Eternaloptimist

Well-known member
I have no idea to be honest the season isn't over

He's certainly doing better now, but given the investment and the fact we have an ambitious millionaire Blackpool fan as the owner i would say we are probably about par in what the seasons target was
Having a millionaire owner (that also supports the club) who is willing to invest heavily has nothing to do whatsoever with a managers ability. History has proven that millions can be spent on players but if the right man isn’t in charge then they will get nowhere.
Sadler brought Critchley in because he believed in his ability (which you have never done) and despite the poor start to the season he kept his belief which is now paying dividends.
And your comment about it being a weak, weak League is utter nonsense.
And even if it was a weak league it is the same for every team in there and they still have to perform well to win.
Yesterday was a great example of how good we are (which is down to Critchley)
Gillingham were a very physical team. Height wise they were considerably taller and yet we made them look second rate in every area of the park.
Considering you are a supporter Phil you never appear to post anything that is just positive.
 

Plumbs

Well-known member
Here's an article on Sunderland's wage bill.

Elliot Embleton is shown as earning £4,300 pw !!
Some people on an inflation busting pension wouldn't stay in bed for that.

Great thread and the OP in fine form

*drinks break*
 

Plumbs

Well-known member
And you're in love with yourselves.
Well we would if we took ourselves seriously. Surely no one on here has ever done that or indeed felt there was an importance in having a long thread?

*knocks up another single*
 

voyeur

Well-known member
Well we would if we took ourselves seriously. Surely no one on here has ever done that or indeed felt there was an importance in having a long thread?

*knocks up another single*
I can't imagine why anyone would value a long thread, no. It's not a dick waving competition this football fan thing, is it?
 

seasiderjohn

Well-known member
You do know the salary cap was scrapped just over a week after Stewart signed he could be on a higher wage.
always said salary cap was a legal minefield.
players who would be out of contract forced to take a pay cut to resign wouldve been found illegal methinks if taken to court think thats one of the reasons it was scrapped
 

voyeur

Well-known member
always said salary cap was a legal minefield.
players who would be out of contract forced to take a pay cut to resign wouldve been found illegal methinks if taken to court think thats one of the reasons it was scrapped
Squad size limits still in place. Reversion to rules that link wages to turnover. League One is 60%. League Two 50%.

"An independent arbitration panel ruled the cap must be withdrawn after the Professional Footballers’ Association argued it was “unlawful and unenforceable”. Clubs voted in August to implement caps, set at £1.5m in League Two and £2.5m in League One, but will revert to rules that link player-related expenditure to turnover, under which Bury went bust. Clubs will meet on Thursday and the agreed squad limits remain in place. Clubs understand the PFA’s reluctance to adopt a “hard” salary cap but believe there is an urgent need for restrictive measures during the coronavirus crisis. “Some clubs really are on the brink,” said one League One chairman. “We are at a crucial point. Having some sort of salary cost management and control was a way of alleviating pressure somewhat.”

What are the rules now?​

The two leagues will revert to the previous Salary Cost Management Protocol (SCMP). In League Two, clubs can spend up to 50 per cent of turnover on player-related expenditure, which excludes players under the age of 21.
They receive sanctions for exceeding the SCMP requirement or late submission.
In League One, this rises to 60 per cent of turnover, or 75 per cent of turnover in the year following relegation from the Championship.
Equity can be used to support the turnover, but has to be injected up front.

 
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SEASIDE2020

Well-known member
Perhaps too many are more interested in attacking anything Phil says no matter what that may be rather than considering what he actually says and then reacting appropriately - I think playing the man and not the ball is what it's called on here ?

I thought Phil was over critical of Critchley at the start of the season myself and to be honest I still think that's the case but do our improved results mean that everything Phil suggested was wrong ?

Let's consider a hypothetical example, a side is 4-0 down at half time and somebody criticises their performance during the interval.

Should the side comeback to win the match 5-4, does that consider the half-time criticism to be ridiculous ?

Some might suggest that the half-time criticism becomes more relevant after the second half performance ?
 

Insider

Well-known member
Perhaps too many are more interested in attacking anything Phil says no matter what that may be rather than considering what he actually says and then reacting appropriately - I think playing the man and not the ball is what it's called on here ?

I thought Phil was over critical of Critchley at the start of the season myself and to be honest I still think that's the case but do our improved results mean that everything Phil suggested was wrong ?

Let's consider a hypothetical example, a side is 4-0 down at half time and somebody criticises their performance during the interval.

Should the side comeback to win the match 5-4, does that consider the half-time criticism to be ridiculous ?

Some might suggest that the half-time criticism becomes more relevant after the second half performance ?
I agree I'd rather discuss Critchley than Phil.
Phil's just a facilitator to get us posting (Oh and he likes a run chase as well 😉 )
The thing with Phil is ............... 😆
 

SEASIDE2020

Well-known member
I agree I'd rather discuss Critchley than Phil.
Phil's just a facilitator to get us posting (Oh and he likes a run chase as well 😉 )
The thing with Phil is ............... 😆

Absolutely.

He loves the Mighty and he's passionate about associated issues.

He's Welsh but nobody is perfect.
 

Insider

Well-known member
What I've learned from this thread is it's fine to have given Kaikai grief but not Critch.
I think the problem is if you rate Kaikai/Critchley and someone else offers a different opinion you will think it's criticism.
That's not necessarily the case. I still criticise Kaikai but I actually think he's probably our most naturally talented player so I set higher standards for him than I do for others.
 

voyeur

Well-known member
What I've learned from this thread is it's fine to have given Kaikai grief but not Critch.
Completely different. Kaikai has underperformed most of his time at the club. He looks a different character right now, for the last few games. Someone found the light switch. Critch hasn't under-performed at all in reality, and certainly not since the first few games of a new season with a new set of players.
 

td53

Well-known member
Completely different. Kaikai has underperformed most of his time at the club. He looks a different character right now, for the last few games. Someone found the light switch. Critch hasn't under-performed at all in reality, and certainly not since the first few games of a new season with a new set of players.
As I say, I've learned it.

You can't criticise the manager for misusing Kaikai but you can criticise Kaikai for being misused.

I'm clear on that.
 

voyeur

Well-known member
As I say, I've learned it.

You can't criticise the manager for misusing Kaikai but you can criticise Kaikai for being misused.

I'm clear on that.
But you can criticise the manager. Why even suggest that you can't?

This isn't about anyone being perfect is it? It's about people saying the manager is a novice and not what we need at the club etc. He was given a very hard time for a while and a few still seem to be struggling to acknowledge the great job he is doing out of sheer stubbornness.
 

clappers

Well-known member
But you can criticise the manager. Why even suggest that you can't?

This isn't about anyone being perfect is it? It's about people saying the manager is a novice and not what we need at the club etc. He was given a very hard time for a while and a few still seem to be struggling to acknowledge the great job he is doing out of sheer stubbornness.
He was a novice at first team professional football management though. He’s learned a lot by that baptism of fire. There are many many people who don’t.
 

voyeur

Well-known member
He was a novice at first team professional football management though. He’s learned a lot by that baptism of fire. There are many many people who don’t.
So was Larry when he started with us. I think it's a massively overstated point. Spot ability - give it a job. Allow a bit of time for adjustment, reap the rewards. Is that too difficult to grasp? Apparently yes.
 

poolseasider

Well-known member
Giving someone a hard time on a football forum is a bit different to real life it's only words no one is going to read it, in the ground different animal.
 

Insider

Well-known member
As I say, I've learned it.

You can't criticise the manager for misusing Kaikai but you can criticise Kaikai for being misused.

I'm clear on that.
That's not true but I am starting think you're either Sullay, his Dad or his partner. 😉
 

voyeur

Well-known member
Giving someone a hard time on a football forum is a bit different to real life it's only words no one is going to read it, in the ground different animal.
Of course. But a really negative vibe can be created across social media that is less than helpful, IMO. I criticise people myself, this notion that we are not allowed to say anything critical is just ridiculous, of course we are. But give people a friggin chance. Like more than 9 games or so.
 

td53

Well-known member
So was Larry when he started with us. I think it's a massively overstated point. Spot ability - give it a job. Allow a bit of time for adjustment, reap the rewards. Is that too difficult to grasp? Apparently yes.
There's plenty of 'able' and vaunted novices who crash and burn. It is to Critchley's immense credit that he doesn't seem to be one of them. The switch from coach to top man often doesn't work out. In this case, it appears it is working and working very well now.

It also is to his credit that he's finally worked out that leaving the best player stood on the touchline isn't the way to go. The way he rejigged 442 to enable the wide men to come inside recently is also very clever. I will give him every credit for that, but I also will question how he's used Sullay to this point.

Critchley is doing an excellent job but some of what he has tried hasn't worked and that has meant, sometimes, some players, getting stick as a result with Sullay being the obvious one. If you want me to be truly objective about it, I'd say, in the long run, he might well have done Sullay some good as he seems a more disciplined player now and to be timing and choosing his forays more selectively as well as tracking more effectively.

I think the narrative that Sullay just 'didn't give a fuck' and now magically he's 'playing really well' is simplistic and doesn't take into account what he's instructed to do. I've sad this before but it's like asking Dan Ballard to play right back. It's only a shuffle across the pitch, but for a player with Ballard's attributes, it would probably, eventually result in a loss of form and confidence and criticism.

As I say, I think in the long run, it might have made Sullay a better player overall - I just object to the notion that Sullay is simply some workshy loafer who doesn't care in the slightest, when actually, I think to a certain extent, he's been doing what he's told to do (even when it runs against his natural skills - i.e. playing Dan Ballard as a wing back) in a side whose rigidity was a defining hallmark. Now the side is less rigid, Sullay looks much better. The problem was earlier in the year, if he tried something and it went wrong, he got stick for 'not being in position' - but then simultaneously, if he had a quiet game, he got stick for 'not trying things'

@Insider - none of the above... Imagine if it turned out I was Sullay tho. That would be turn up.

Here's a fact I bet no one knows. His actual mum once stood for election on a women's rights ticket in Sierra Leone: https://www.ayvnewspaper.com/uncategorized/slpp-s-navo-kaikai-confidence-of-winning-election/
 

td53

Well-known member
I'll also gladly accept, having above credited Critchley for inverting wingers in a 442 (which seems insane on paper really), I've been fairly consistent in hating inverted wingers and it goes to show what I know...
 

voyeur

Well-known member
There's plenty of 'able' and vaunted novices who crash and burn. It is to Critchley's immense credit that he doesn't seem to be one of them. The switch from coach to top man often doesn't work out. In this case, it appears it is working and working very well now.

It also is to his credit that he's finally worked out that leaving the best player stood on the touchline isn't the way to go. The way he rejigged 442 to enable the wide men to come inside recently is also very clever. I will give him every credit for that, but I also will question how he's used Sullay to this point.

Critchley is doing an excellent job but some of what he has tried hasn't worked and that has meant, sometimes, some players, getting stick as a result with Sullay being the obvious one. If you want me to be truly objective about it, I'd say, in the long run, he might well have done Sullay some good as he seems a more disciplined player now and to be timing and choosing his forays more selectively as well as tracking more effectively.

I think the narrative that Sullay just 'didn't give a fuck' and now magically he's 'playing really well' is simplistic and doesn't take into account what he's instructed to do. I've sad this before but it's like asking Dan Ballard to play right back. It's only a shuffle across the pitch, but for a player with Ballard's attributes, it would probably, eventually result in a loss of form and confidence and criticism.

As I say, I think in the long run, it might have made Sullay a better player overall - I just object to the notion that Sullay is simply some workshy loafer who doesn't care in the slightest, when actually, I think to a certain extent, he's been doing what he's told to do (even when it runs against his natural skills - i.e. playing Dan Ballard as a wing back) in a side whose rigidity was a defining hallmark. Now the side is less rigid, Sullay looks much better. The problem was earlier in the year, if he tried something and it went wrong, he got stick for 'not being in position' - but then simultaneously, if he had a quiet game, he got stick for 'not trying things'

@Insider - none of the above... Imagine if it turned out I was Sullay tho. That would be turn up.

Here's a fact I bet no one knows. His actual mum once stood for election on a women's rights ticket in Sierra Leone: https://www.ayvnewspaper.com/uncategorized/slpp-s-navo-kaikai-confidence-of-winning-election/
Fair enough, I don't hugely disagree with that. But KK hasn't had the same attention that Critch has had, for one thing. Plus he has not looked particularly interested out on the pitch for long spells either. He is visibly working much harder at the minute, now that things have clicked for him. (without Madine in the side! 🤣)

He didn't seem to have the motivation to do the press or make the runs until recently. And how out of position was he played? There have been games when he's been out on the left with space to attack and come inside etc and he's hardly touched the ball or looked like he wanted to. I'm not anti-KK, I'm loving seeing his new found enthusiasm, confidence and he's fantastic to watch in this form, I just wish he'd looked more interested when he was played possibly slightly out of position. I suspect it's mostly about confidence, and it's not a personal thing I have with him, it's simply a case of discussing whether somebody should be starting games or not. But I also accepted that NC selected him and was obviously giving him the opportunity to play himself back to form. which has happened. Well done both men. Let's applaud the development and the skills involved.
 

clappers

Well-known member
I’d just like to say that on the issue of Sullay Kaikai, Phil was right all along. He was banging the Kaks Drum on his own at one point!
 

clappers

Well-known member
I would protest at that, but yes.
Protests at something we all agree on is so very AFVTT! I lost count of the people who told me I wanted Critchley out when I never once said it. I wasn’t convinced and voiced criticisms clearly, yes. That’s what the board is for. As it turned out he’s probably now set us up for a lot of success.....with assistance from Calderwood 😌
 

BFC_53

Well-known member
With Kaikai, it's about being given the freedom to move about the pitch. He's played wide left for weeks now but in that time he's had good games and bad. On Monday, his third goal was from inside right after starting the move in his wide left position. Off the ball movement and freedom for our creative players and we've started scoring.
 

Insider

Well-known member
I can see all sides of the argument on Sullay but one thing's for sure that was an absolute screamer he scored on Monday.
Just one point on the "lazy" player accusation, a lot of people said that about Gnanduillet and it was even mentioned again very recently.
I never thought that but there are quite a few players who's "body language" often gives that impression.
Debates like this are of course what football is all about and hopefully soon we'll be able to have them pre-match again in the ground.
I'll be looking out for TD53 in his Blackpool shirt with Kaikai 10 on the back.
UTMP
 

Macseasider

Well-known member
Let's consider a hypothetical example, a side is 4-0 down at half time and somebody criticises their performance during the interval.

Should the side comeback to win the match 5-4, does that consider the half-time criticism to be ridiculous ?

Some might suggest that the half-time criticism becomes more relevant after the second half performance ?

I'm guilty of this every game! And as Tde said - people that don't "sail with the wind" during football matches are weird. If you want to moan then moan. Football is a release for many people twice a week. To stick rigidly to supporting the manager and the lads without moaning or passing criticism is weird. I love it when you think or say a particular player is absolutely shite then they go and score a worldy. It's the brilliant nature of football.
 

td53

Well-known member
I can see all sides of the argument on Sullay but one thing's for sure that was an absolute screamer he scored on Monday.
Just one point on the "lazy" player accusation, a lot of people said that about Gnanduillet and it was even mentioned again very recently.
I never thought that but there are quite a few players who's "body language" often gives that impression.
Debates like this are of course what football is all about and hopefully soon we'll be able to have them pre-match again in the ground.
I'll be looking out for TD53 in his Blackpool shirt with Kaikai 10 on the back.
UTMP

I said the same about Armand as I do Sullay.

Some fans want to see some bullet headed tough lads getting physical. That's up to them, but I like the odd flicker of enigmatic brilliance and misunderstood genius thrown in there alongside the Kevin Stewart and Jay Spearing sorts.

It's all very well venerating effort but I've seen a lot of players sweat around Bloomfield Road trying very hard and achieving not a lot

Might get a tattoo with Kaikai 10 on my back...
 

Phil_bfc deux

Well-known member
Having a millionaire owner (that also supports the club) who is willing to invest heavily has nothing to do whatsoever with a managers ability. History has proven that millions can be spent on players but if the right man isn’t in charge then they will get nowhere.
Sadler brought Critchley in because he believed in his ability (which you have never done) and despite the poor start to the season he kept his belief which is now paying dividends.
And your comment about it being a weak, weak League is utter nonsense.
And even if it was a weak league it is the same for every team in there and they still have to perform well to win.
Yesterday was a great example of how good we are (which is down to Critchley)
Gillingham were a very physical team. Height wise they were considerably taller and yet we made them look second rate in every area of the park.
Considering you are a supporter Phil you never appear to post anything that is just positive.
I completely disagree with most of that but take particular issue with the last sentence

Being positive is having ambition, striving for improvement and wanting success in a results business

That comes across in my posts

Being negative is just being happy to except mediocrity, that comes across in your posts

Maybe you should change the user name 🤔
 

coppiceman

Well-known member
I completely disagree with most of that but take particular issue with the last sentence

Being positive is having ambition, striving for improvement and wanting success in a results business

That comes across in my posts

Being negative is just being happy to except mediocrity, that comes across in your posts

Maybe you should change the user name 🤔

You don't have ambition though. You just wish for the moon on the stick, change your mind like you change your underwear and make no attempt to put anything into context. It's just childish, and most of us have grown out of it.

Your judgement has always been off like on the Jerry Yates thread, and this stuff about it being a weak league is complete bollocks. The bottom eight or so, maybe, not the rest.
 
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