Joey Barton-Female football pundits row.

WIZARD OF TANGERINE said:
Just pointing out that football is more complicated these days . I do think the bird who sits in the sky studio on a Saturday is pretty good at her job , but the rest just say the obvious.
Click to expand...
Flip side is the pundits have a million times more data. Motion used to do all his own prep and research. He discovered all the weird 'actually, it's only the third time these teams have played on a Tuesday since 1923' facts. Now they just get fed opta stats and prepared graphics and packages of replays that have had teams of producers working in them.

The game is marginally more complex, but then the investment in the production (which is partly about preparing presenters with information and 'talking points' has increased vastly more.
 
What about staging a Women V Mens match? Top level of course
Let's see how even that comes out.
 
Last edited:
Barton is a 🔔🔚 but he is right about the force feeding of female pundits on tv. Female presenters are good in the main but pundits are all shockingly bad and with respect have no idea about the pressures on men’s football at the highest level.
 
td53 said:
I suppose it depends on what you see the job as.

From the point of view of Sky or TNT having 'a bit of eye candy' is a legitimate presentation tactic that is used in the media everywhere and anywhere. I agree with you. It's poor but as I've said on another post of my own, the days of Jimmy Hill and football being a thing that was basically for football fans is long, long, long gone.

Top level football is an entertainment product. Hollywood actors are essentially there at least in part for their looks. The idea of a big budget film having two brilliant but ultimately minging leads is almost impossible to imagine.

The theory goes that people want to see attractive people on their entertainment shows. Football on TV is now an entertainment product first and foremost, a glossy soap opera of rich and glamorous people, funded by global billions.

Personally give me Barry Davies on his own on a crackly line with Jimmy Hill and Bob Wilson any day - but that was another era, when football wasn't courting an audience of global Investors and advertisers.

In short, I couldn't agree with you more - but it's not about woke or PC (not that you said it was!) - it's about the marketing gloss that a global entertainment is expected to have.
Click to expand...
And a very sad state of affairs because of it all Matt☹️
Let's just enjoy today's victory 👍🏻
 
Davepick said:
What about staging a Women V Mens match? Top level of course
Let's see hoe even that comes out.
Click to expand...
There's no point, as many top women sides have lost heavily to many clubs youth sides, containing 15, 16 year olds. That's not really the point being made, but it does highlight the differences when comparing the games.
 
he's now gone full tin foil hat, ranting about being discriminated against for being white and insinuating female pundits shagged their way into a role. even naming names. Next will be vaccines and climate change.
 
Threads like this leave me scratching my head. Being a top player doesn’t make you a top pundit. And being a top pundit doesn’t mean you have to have been a top player - although there’s obviously overlapping skills and knowledge. BUT being a top pundit does likely require media training, some journalism experience, a fair and balanced view free (to an extent) of bias, and the ability to empathise with the average fan - these are skills far more important than having actually kicked a ball around for a living (but obviously out of work ex players who happened to enjoy a drink and a flutter in the bookies probably wouldn’t want you to think that - as if their ‘experience’ wasn’t the be all and end all their skills and therefore earning potential is limited once they’ve retired, been found to be not cut out for coaching and their savings have dwindled)
The vast majority of female presenters likely have those skills that the average ex footballer does not. Few made a living professionally and most have degrees and an experience of the game that comes from a love of the game and not a fat pay cheque - which makes them more relatable to fans. Also unlike the men they don’t have the attachment to a team they need to adhere to or shake off and can therefore be more neutral
 
I’m not a fan of female pundits. It feels forced and smacks of tokenism. The last couple of episodes of Stick to Football without Jill Scott have flowed a lot better and have a more authentic vibe.
The point that plenty of male pundits are awful is valid, nor is it correct that someone needs to have played at a high to be able to talk about it. But that doesn’t justify giving women jobs to fill quota’s or push someone’s agenda.
All that said, I’d rather listen to any female pundit than Robbie Savage. He is truly the worst. Absolutely stealing a living.
 
It’s the same argument as “does one have had to be a top, top player to become a great manager”?

Arsene Wenger would say “No”.
Carlo Ancelotti would say “Yes”.
It’s all down to individuals.
 
I agree with a lot of what he was trying to say, pity he said it in a very immature and unprofessional manner
 
Dr Hfuhruhurr said:
BBC innit. The woman just reads the fact from her list. But she is pretty and a person of colour so....if anything it's patronising to her and women in general (though I'm not a woman so that's not for me to say 🫡) as she is just being used as eye candy.
Click to expand...
The draw was on ITV, but carry on with your critique😉
 
I think posters on this thread are getting mixed up between female presenters(no one has an issue with) and female pundits who are brought in to give their experience and expert analysis which is often poor and wrong.
 
LA1 Seasider said:
The vast majority of female presenters likely have those skills that the average ex footballer does not. Few made a living professionally and most have degrees and an experience of the game that comes from a love of the game and not a fat pay cheque - which makes them more relatable to fans
Click to expand...
What a load of nonsense 🤣

There’s no proper football fan who thinks Karen Carney or Izzy are more relatable than Graeme Souness or Roy Keane etc.

This is actually the perfect example of what Barton was saying. People making up complete nonsense to suit the agenda.
 
That female with strange hair do is pain in the Arse.
Every time she moves her head the hair stays as it is.
Enough lacquer to 'float a boat'.☹️
 
Adams Kebab said:
What a load of nonsense 🤣

There’s no proper football fan who thinks Karen Carney or Izzy are more relatable than Graeme Souness or Roy Keane etc.

This is actually the perfect example of what Barton was saying. People making up complete nonsense to suit the agenda.
Click to expand...

Barton is misunderstanding what football broadcasting actually is though. It's not the serious thing he thinks it is and it's not just for 'proper football fans.' It's a commercial enterprise that is interested in selling the game to the broadest audience. He's speaking about it like it's some kind of scientific importance - that 'people are getting things wrong on television and it's got to stop...' (that bit, I don't necessarily disagree with - I get his point that if you've got me or I dunno, Nelly Furtado or someone else who hasn't played at the level going 'oh, you should have done x or y' then it will grate, I do appreciate that) and it's all down to 'wokeness' - it really isn't - it's down to commercial enterprises pursuing an agenda - the agenda of selling the game to the broadest possible audience and therefore having a range of people that appeals to diverse audiences (because global audiences are, indeed, diverse and English football is global - It's like getting a strop on about how the judges on the voice aren't expert enough or something like that. Who gives a fuck about that? It's just some daft entertainment show - and like it or not, that's what football now is - a global glamorous soap opera that requires camera friendly figureheads.

You just have to look at the way Keane, Richards and Neville and so on are turned into 'personalities' by the clipping up of them to see that it's really not about football analysis. You honestly can't imagine the football coverage of the 80s having 'at home with Elton Welsby' shit going on can you? Now we get to see Roy Keane walking his dog and everyone having mad bants and laughing with each other - the actual football is secondary to the 'brand building' exercise that is going on. It's natural that these TV companies are going to go 'ah, there's 50% of the population we can reach here' - because, like in shit like X factor, the actual performance is secondary to the moment of judgement - you can see how on twitter, a Roy Keane rant will get more traction than the actual goals from the game or what the manager says... they're building the Simon Cowells of football and it's perfectly natural they want to also chuck in a few Sharon Osborne's or that awful woman who cheated on Les Dennis. Can't remember her name. Les Dennis is great. she isn't.

This is my problem with ascribing everything to 'wokeness' - there is doubtless some mentalism that goes on in the name of 'inclusion and diversity' but there's plenty other social forces at play - and the last 250 years are characterised largely by the pursuit of profit and the idea that somehow everything is now a 'box ticking' exercise where profit is suddenly secondary is weird as fuck. Female pundits are also likely cheaper and more bidable not having the profile and ego that comes with being Keane or Ferdinand or whoever. The values of wokeness/not wokeness are argued about as if they are somehow the force that makes everything tick and that's all there is to the world. A bunch of woke folk and a bunch of not woke folk and the winner gets the keys (and Gray) to the world - I think there's more going on than that personally.
 
Adams Kebab said:
What a load of nonsense 🤣

There’s no proper football fan who thinks Karen Carney or Izzy are more relatable than Graeme Souness or Roy Keane etc.

This is actually the perfect example of what Barton was saying. People making up complete nonsense to suit the agenda.
Click to expand...
The point - - - - - - - - - - - - >

Your head. X
 
Wow. Joey Barton has lost the plot on X. Taking on allcomers. Now he's accusing black people of being racists and is going to sort the whole issue out on his new podcasts.

Being unemployed is doing him no favours. Not sure he's well. The female pundit thing is one thing, now he's going for everything he considers "woke".
 
Davepick said:
What about staging a Women V Mens match? Top level of course
Let's see how even that comes out.
Click to expand...
I would love to see Man City or Liverpool men V women as it would be spectacularly one-sided due to physical performance (speed/Strength etc) nothing against the skill but women just cant run as fast or jump as high as a man so are at a massive disadvantage. It would be a cricket score.

On the other hand I fear Man Utd men may well get beat by the women at the moment! LOL
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top