Joseph v Beesley

C

crunchtime

Well-known member
Who should be the prefered first choice to partner Rhodes up front.
Both are very hard workers and close down well. Beesley's better in the air but is a bit slower and one paced. I like the fight and energy of Joseph so he's for me.
 
i thought yesterday we could have done with Joseph's energy and ability to put opposition defensive and def mids under pressure, maybe sitting just behind bees who did a decent job chasing and harrying second half, but lacked support.
 
Costero Poderoso said:
i thought yesterday we could have done with Joseph's energy and ability to put opposition defensive and def mids under pressure, maybe sitting just behind bees who did a decent job chasing and harrying second half, but lacked support.
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Difficult call once we were down to ten men. Dembele wins plenty of free kicks at home & can produce a bit if magic. Norburn & Byers protecting the back three. Joseph ended up being like for like with Bees, just chasing lost causes. Had we conceded then I think he'd have been on earlier to support Beesley.
 
Joseph so much technically better and yesterday Beesleys first touch was pretty abysmal. His very first touch in the 1st minute he got a simple pass of about three yards wrong hitting it straight to their player. They both work very hard for the team. But Joseph just doesn't look like scoring although shoving out wide like Critch does with some players doesn't help. When Beesley is on form he looks capable of scoring and getting on the end of things. But i still see Beesley as a being one good game every five or so and at the top end of this division that isn't good enough. So a tough conundrum but in the long term I hope Joseph comes good in terms of goal scoring because he's more potential to go higher than Beesley.
 
Beesley and Joseph work well together and either is a good partner for Rhodes who, i think, should have his red card rescinded tomorrow.
The way hubby went off I can’t see him being fit for Tuesday so I assume Casey will drop in there then pretty much the same as yesterday.
 
20togo said:
Joseph so much technically better and yesterday Beesleys first touch was pretty abysmal. His very first touch in the 1st minute he got a simple pass of about three yards wrong hitting it straight to their player. They both work very hard for the team. But Joseph just doesn't look like scoring although shoving out wide like Critch does with some players doesn't help. When Beesley is on form he looks capable of scoring and getting on the end of things. But i still see Beesley as a being one good game every five or so and at the top end of this division that isn't good enough. So a tough conundrum but in the long term I hope Joseph comes good in terms of goal scoring because he's more potential to go higher than Beesley.
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Unfortunately, given Joseph's career record to date there's nothing to suggest his goals per game ratio will improve much on his 1 in 5.
 
20togo said:
Joseph so much technically better and yesterday Beesleys first touch was pretty abysmal. His very first touch in the 1st minute he got a simple pass of about three yards wrong hitting it straight to their player. They both work very hard for the team. But Joseph just doesn't look like scoring although shoving out wide like Critch does with some players doesn't help. When Beesley is on form he looks capable of scoring and getting on the end of things. But i still see Beesley as a being one good game every five or so and at the top end of this division that isn't good enough. So a tough conundrum but in the long term I hope Joseph comes good in terms of goal scoring because he's more potential to go higher than Beesley.
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I think Beesley's stop/start season through a couple of lengthy injuries has prevented him building up any momentum. Could see Joseph playing the Dembele role with his better control & knack of getting past opposing players.
 
Willie Mcgrotty said:
I think Beesley's stop/start season through a couple of lengthy injuries has prevented him building up any momentum. Could see Joseph playing the Dembele role with his better control & knack of getting past opposing players.
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yes perhaps but i just don't see him technically good enough. But whoever scores for us regularly should rightfully play and as long as someone does then i'm not bothered who it is. And that includes Lavery too.
 
Joseph for me is the better player but Beesley has the better goal record. If I had to choose I'd go with Joseph as he offers more in the game and I do think the goals will come. It's a tough call though as Beesley seems to have the knack of getting a goal but his technique is often found wanting.
It's like the striker version of if you did Ekpiteta or Casey. One a better footballer the other a better defender. Which do you value most in your game.
 
Devonshire said:
Joseph needs to be given a run of games, the mob on this site not so long ago decided Hardy wasn’t good enough so they were happy when we off loaded him to Plymouth 🤔 Beesley is proving to be a decent back up option but Joseph must be the way forward, but lord give him a chance.
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I think k he will get his extended chance but it might be next season. He's already got his own chant and is well regarded by most fans I think. I'd just say that as things stand, Beez has been more effective this season. Particularly like it when he partners Rhodes, whose workrate, skill set and experience should help improve any striker.
 
In the short term Beesley because he's getting goals. But longer term Joseph will prove to be the better and more valuable player.

Case in point yesterday - Beesley getting through on goal and a really poor first touch prevented a proper goal scoring opportunity. Joseph would have taken a better touch and given us a better opportunity because of it. He also has very good vision and passing ability - it was his through ball that led to our 4th against Bolton, and that isn't the first time he's assisted with good vision and a perfectly weighted pass. That kind of quality I dont think Beesley has. He will score goals too eventually I think.
 
The more I see of Joseph, the more I wonder whether he is an out-and-out striker.

He seems much more of a creative player and that is highlighted by his his lack of selfishness that you see in the best strikers, he seems more inclined to offload the ball even when an opportunity to score is on - twice off the top of my head he's done that in a prime position, where he'd have been better off taking the chance himself.

He does seem great little passes, has decent footwork and has assisted more than he's scored in his time here. I haven't seen much in him to suggest he'll be a prolific goal scorer, but he looks to have other abilities.
 
Bottom line is we are lucky to have them and will need both in the run in - as well as Shane and Rhodes once his red card is (hopefully) rescinded.
 
Both are part of the squad and are of equal importance. If the Rhodes red card is rescinded though I'd go for a Rhodes/Joseph partnership. Beesley looked knackered when he was subbed on Saturday. We need as many fresh players as we can on Tuesday.
 
crunchtime said:
Who should be the prefered first choice to partner Rhodes up front.
Both are very hard workers and close down well. Beesley's better in the air but is a bit slower and one paced. I like the fight and energy of Joseph so he's for me.
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You’ve started a good debate here but I think you need to look at Beez a bit closer. Tall/long legged. So, with each stride he’s going further than the small player.
I’ll go with the majority: Beez scores more often than Joseph = starter. But that doesn’t stop me liking Joseph. I’m sure he’ll improve his goals tally.
 
They're both currently bog standard league one players. One has more potential than the other but that's not saying much.
 
65 & Counting said:
Agreed. Joseph with 1 league goal in 21 appearances is far from a successful big money buy so far.
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How many of those 21 appearances are starts playing as a striker? He has 4 assists compared to Hamilton's 6. And has played less than 65% of the same minutes.

Coming back from a nasty injury, substantially better than CJ or Beesley will ever be and if you can't see that from watching him then football isn't for you.
 
SeasideKurt said:
How many of those 21 appearances are starts playing as a striker? He has 4 assists compared to Hamilton's 6. And has played less than 65% of the same minutes.

Coming back from a nasty injury, substantially better than CJ or Beesley will ever be and if you can't see that from watching him then football isn't for you.
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Look at his career record bonehead.
 
65 & Counting said:
Look at his career record pal.
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I don't need to. I have eyes and I can see when someone's a good footballer and I can see when players aren't good footballers.

And Beesley and CJ are not good footballers and the fact they've played so much this season is a pretty good reason why we're 8th.
 
SeasideKurt said:
I don't need to. I have eyes and I can see when someone's a good footballer and I can see when players aren't good footballers.

And Beesley and CJ are not good footballers and the fact they've played so much this season is a pretty good reason why we're 8th.
You need your eyes testing pal.
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If you think Jake Beesley and CJ Hamilton are better footballers than Kyle Joseph football isn't a sport you have any idea about.
 
You wouldn't know a footballer if you fell over one, whereas I reached a level way beyond anything you've experienced. Get back to your blow football.
 
Stony Hill said:
You’ve started a good debate here but I think you need to look at Beez a bit closer. Tall/long legged. So, with each stride he’s going further than the small player.
I’ll go with the majority: Beez scores more often than Joseph = starter. But that doesn’t stop me liking Joseph. I’m sure he’ll improve his goals tally.
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Neither are blessed with great pace but it's the initial burst of speed from an almost standing start that's important and Joseph wins there.
 
Joseph will play at higher levels throughout his career and command higher transfer fees than both Beesley and CJ simply because he's much better than either with the ball at his feet. I can't really fathom why some are saying Joseph is poor, because his quality is obvious to me. Sure, he hasn't been scoring, but he has been contributing to goals. So have CJ and Beesley to be fair, but I'd argue that Joseph's better skill and closer control will make him more difficult to defend against when coming up against the better defenders.
I can certainly see why we were keen to sign him before he went to Swansea. If he stays fit, he'll prove a good signing.

There are some interesting stats on transfermkt that show that in league games only:
Joseph - played 1,071 minutes, 1 goals, 6 assists. A goal contribution every 153 minutes.
CJ - played 2,946 minutes, 4 goals, 8 assists. A goal contribution every 245 minutes.
Beesley - played 1,360 minutes, 6 goals, 1 assist. A goal contribution every 194 minutes.

It isn't a direct comparison because there are other considerations like the fact CJ has played wingback mostly, so you could say his scoring record is decent vs the other two. But Joseph has contributed well, and I think the goals will come.
 
Great OP. I think some people, rather than comparing Beez and Joseph, are comparing Beez now with our expectations of Beez at the beginning of the season. Beesley has come on leaps and bounds and I'm more than happy to see him starting alongside Rhodes. Joseph is the better player though, by a country mile.
 
BFC_53 said:
Joseph will play at higher levels throughout his career and command higher transfer fees than both Beesley and CJ simply because he's much better than either with the ball at his feet. I can't really fathom why some are saying Joseph is poor, because his quality is obvious to me. Sure, he hasn't been scoring, but he has been contributing to goals. So have CJ and Beesley to be fair, but I'd argue that Joseph's better skill and closer control will make him more difficult to defend against when coming up against the better defenders.
I can certainly see why we were keen to sign him before he went to Swansea. If he stays fit, he'll prove a good signing.

There are some interesting stats on transfermkt that show that in league games only:
Joseph - played 1,071 minutes, 1 goals, 6 assists. A goal contribution every 153 minutes.
CJ - played 2,946 minutes, 4 goals, 8 assists. A goal contribution every 245 minutes.
Beesley - played 1,360 minutes, 6 goals, 1 assist. A goal contribution every 194 minutes.

It isn't a direct comparison because there are other considerations like the fact CJ has played wingback mostly, so you could say his scoring record is decent vs the other two. But Joseph has contributed well, and I think the goals will come.
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It's the 1 goal and his career to date ratio of 1 in 5/6 which worries me and others.
 
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