Manchester refuses to accept Tier 3

Giro said:
Robbie,
Neither have I. I walked passed him, a few years ago, on the way back from the buffet car on a London to Glasgow train. The fact he was sat in standard class speaks volumes for his integrity.
He’s also got a lot of political nouse. It sure won’t help Boris, in the north, if he imposes a tier change.
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They need to stop using the North as guinea pigs with these tier 3 lock downs , having put Liverpool in tier 3 , why dont they put that there London in tier 3 as the cases there are growing at an alarming rate ?
There will be then both North and South to compare if the so called tier solution works .
Or is it a case of ruining the future livelyhoods of the North ? i dread to think the damage that will be caused to the young in the northern areas if the govt continue to use northern cities/towns with there games.
its either tier whatever for all or none 😡
 
There is far too much "Ooh, the poor North" stop being so parochial, it's the North, because that is where the highest case are. I will go with whatever the Government bring in. If they have a circuit break for 2 to 4 weeks country wide, then we just get on with it, but please stop giving us the poor us bullshit. The whole country is struggling, the whole world is struggling, haven't you noticed?

I live down southpaw and in an area that is low, we have 10 Covid cases in Addenbrooks at the moment which is really low. We also have one of the biggest student populations in the country and we aren't getting the numbers of Covidcases there...... why?

Like I said, do the whole country if you want, if not then selected areas need to be restricted more if the numbers dictate it. This is a problem caused by people not following the guidelines, it's as simple as that. Londonhas raised to tier 2 and I would say the majority of people who used to travel into London to work are still working from home. The City is pretty much deserted and the trains are empty. Essex has also gone up a level but this isn't a competition between areas or picking on the the North and letting the South get away with it.

AB is doing what he thinks is right, he is principled, whether he is right or not, like Robbie said, he is sticking his neck out. The trouble with that is it can sometimes get chopped off.

We are in this for months to come yet and we need to be strong and patient. It's shit, shit, shit but it is deadly virus so lets not forget that.
 
hertfordseasider said:
There is far too much "Ooh, the poor North" stop being so parochial, it's the North, because that is where the highest case are. I will go with whatever the Government bring in. If they have a circuit break for 2 to 4 weeks country wide, then we just get on with it, but please stop giving us the poor us bullshit. The whole country is struggling, the whole world is struggling, haven't you noticed?

I live down southpaw and in an area that is low, we have 10 Covid cases in Addenbrooks at the moment which is really low. We also have one of the biggest student populations in the country and we aren't getting the numbers of Covidcases there...... why?

Like I said, do the whole country if you want, if not then selected areas need to be restricted more if the numbers dictate it. This is a problem caused by people not following the guidelines, it's as simple as that. Londonhas raised to tier 2 and I would say the majority of people who used to travel into London to work are still working from home. The City is pretty much deserted and the trains are empty. Essex has also gone up a level but this isn't a competition between areas or picking on the the North and letting the South get away with it.

AB is doing what he thinks is right, he is principled, whether he is right or not, like Robbie said, he is sticking his neck out. The trouble with that is it can sometimes get chopped off.

We are in this for months to come yet and we need to be strong and patient. It's shit, shit, shit but it is deadly virus so lets not forget that.
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Wow -touched nerve >

Firstly Manchester is stones throw away from Liverpool so there will be an element of cross infection happening that's inevitable, be it through travel,work or social activities , what i'm saying is distance the theory that tier 3 will work (according to the PM) as opposed to keeping it local in the north. No poor bullshit at all , if you look back the spread of the epidemic back in March is started in the south , so there should be now no focus purely on areas north of Birmingham. Just maybe it would be good idea , to trial tier 3 in the south before it gets out of hand there ?????
There are low areas in Lancashire but looks like a blanket tier 3 will be effected in this area very soon !
I dont have issues with any circuit breaks nor tiered lock downs as long as they are consistent throughout England/Uk.
e are in it for months possibly years i agree but national decisions not regional ones need to be enforced , if you watch the regional news up here you would probably have more understanding of the position pubs,gyms, restaurants hospitality, hotels etc are in with the youth facing losing their jobs in droves .
but dont worry as long as you're ok that's fine .
 
Professional said:
Wow -touched nerve >

Firstly Manchester is stones throw away from Liverpool so there will be an element of cross infection happening that's inevitable, be it through travel,work or social activities , what i'm saying is distance the theory that tier 3 will work (according to the PM) as opposed to keeping it local in the north. No poor bullshit at all , if you look back the spread of the epidemic back in March is started in the south , so there should be now no focus purely on areas north of Birmingham. Just maybe it would be good idea , to trial tier 3 in the south before it gets out of hand there ?????
There are low areas in Lancashire but looks like a blanket tier 3 will be effected in this area very soon !
I dont have issues with any circuit breaks nor tiered lock downs as long as they are consistent throughout England/Uk.
e are in it for months possibly years i agree but national decisions not regional ones need to be enforced , if you watch the regional news up here you would probably have more understanding of the position pubs,gyms, restaurants hospitality, hotels etc are in with the youth facing losing their jobs in droves .
but dont worry as long as you're ok that's fine .
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You e completely missed my point and proved my point, so thank you for that. I am not interested in North v Seouth, I’m concerned that some, like yourself, clearly are. Stop being a victimy victim,of course it started in London, but now it not as bad as some other areas but could be if the rates keep rising, but if you don’t need to lock down the whole country then it would be foolish to do so just because areas that get put in tier 3 don’t think it’s fair. It’s not lockdown as we had before but if they did it nationally for a short period of time then I think it should be.

I am alright, but I won’t be if I catch it. These areas will change regularly and it will be the more highly populated counties and cities that will suffer the most, once it has reduced in Lancashire it will probably be London and places like Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire that will be up to tier 3. If it continues to rise across the country even with this system then the only option will be a full lockdown as before. This was all predicted and it’s happening.
 
Tangerinemoss said:
By going public after the Government threatened him?

You mean by telling his residents that the Government wants to shut them all down despite lack of financial support , and effectively warning the rest of the country of the same?

Seems like he's looking after his folks pretty well. Let the light of publicity shine forth.
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Yes he says he’s looking after his folks, saying he’s protecting jobs and businesses, but he didn’t mention protecting lives. Let’s hope his actions, which seem to me to be political, don’t lead to unnecessary loss of lives.
 
I see AB has now joined Gary Neville in the campaign for sustainable football, is this a genuine interest, or another political move to raise his profile?
 
hertfordseasider said:
There is far too much "Ooh, the poor North" stop being so parochial, it's the North, because that is where the highest case are. I will go with whatever the Government bring in. If they have a circuit break for 2 to 4 weeks country wide, then we just get on with it, but please stop giving us the poor us bullshit. The whole country is struggling, the whole world is struggling, haven't you noticed?

I live down southpaw and in an area that is low, we have 10 Covid cases in Addenbrooks at the moment which is really low. We also have one of the biggest student populations in the country and we aren't getting the numbers of Covidcases there...... why?

Like I said, do the whole country if you want, if not then selected areas need to be restricted more if the numbers dictate it. This is a problem caused by people not following the guidelines, it's as simple as that. Londonhas raised to tier 2 and I would say the majority of people who used to travel into London to work are still working from home. The City is pretty much deserted and the trains are empty. Essex has also gone up a level but this isn't a competition between areas or picking on the the North and letting the South get away with it.

AB is doing what he thinks is right, he is principled, whether he is right or not, like Robbie said, he is sticking his neck out. The trouble with that is it can sometimes get chopped off.

We are in this for months to come yet and we need to be strong and patient. It's shit, shit, shit but it is deadly virus so lets not forget that.
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I agree hertford. This whole north/south divide argument is pathetic. And I don't doubt party politics are playing a part in it. It's dangerous and divisive and doesn't do anyone any good.
The country is in the middle of a pandemic and you would hope that the leaders and politicians would put their differences aside and pull together for the good of the country. But no, that's obviously too much to ask.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Yet their hospitals are full to bursting and loads of older people affected??
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Because, as has been recorded by scientists, the ripple effect into the local community e.g. shops and transport.

No different in say Blackpool, with infections imported by visitors and then spread in the community and back to other visitors.

It’s why we needed a short national breaker last month, when infections were lower, with people told not to travel, including uni students. Bit late now, but still necessary.
 
TimperleyTangerine said:
Because, as has been recorded by scientists, the ripple effect into the local community e.g. shops and transport.

No different in say Blackpool, with infections imported by visitors and then spread in the community and back to other visitors.

It’s why we needed a short national breaker last month, when infections were lower, with people told not to travel, including uni students. Bit late now, but still necessary.
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It's too early for any significant 'Ripple Effect' from the student population though... And the reson Liverpool are first in to Tier 3 has nothing to do with them "being in the North", "having high infection rates among students" etc... It is because the area is in a state of emergency as far as the virus is concerned and if they don't take drastic action then the NHS is likely to be overwhelmed.

I'm not really sure what the point of a "Circuit Breaker" would have been last month or any month to be perfectly honest. They have no idea whether it will work, though as they have since admitted "The virus takes longer to come down than it does to go up"... So any idea of gaining 28 Days from a 2 week break is absolute drivvle!

What we need is measures that are sustainable over the much longer term and localised efforts to contain the virius where it is at the highest levels. The idea of dragging areas which have low infection levels into this ridiculous circuit break is just, well, ridiculous!!
 
RUSTY_2_STANDS said:
I agree hertford. This whole north/south divide argument is pathetic. And I don't doubt party politics are playing a part in it. It's dangerous and divisive and doesn't do anyone any good.
The country is in the middle of a pandemic and you would hope that the leaders and politicians would put their differences aside and pull together for the good of the country. But no, that's obviously too much to ask.
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Absolutely. Party politics should be completely put aside here on all sides and they should work together and take more notice of the experts and stop trying to score political points and feathering their own nest at the cost to lives which is shameful.
 
hertfordseasider said:
Absolutely. Party politics should be completely put aside here on all sides and they should work together and take more notice of the experts and stop trying to score political points and feathering their own nest at the cost to lives which is shameful.
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You clearly haven’t been watching or listening. AB is supported cross-party on this, including by prominent and respected Tory Graham Brady, Chair of the 1922 Backbench Committee.

Just to record again, AB is asking for a National circuit-break. Why, because the local Tier 3 won’t work and Manchester will ultimately get hit twice financially.

It’s only BJ’s stubbornness that is preventing what will happen - a national circuit-break. The longer he leaves it, the more it will be a lockdown.
 
This is all about politics and Burnham trying to raise his profile.
He is going down a very dangerous path which could have massive repercussions.
And if so I hope he is prepared to fall on his sword.
 
I was listening to someone on pm on the radio yesterday. Sorry can’t remember his name. I think it was a former Tory MP ex financial secretary to the treasury, or something similar, and an economist.
Anyway he had a lot of support for AB’s position and his basic point was that it is a no brainier for the government to put in the extra support for Tier 3 areas now as it is going to cost them a whole lot more in benefits, lost taxes, economic fall out etc down the line if they don’t do it.
I think the Government probably needs to back down, and redo the Maths, but I guess AB, and all the others, have now put them in a position where they will now feel politically that they cannot do so.
 
glasshalffull said:
it is a no brainier for the government to put in the extra support for Tier 3 areas now as it is going to cost them a whole lot more in benefits, lost taxes, economic fall out etc down the line if they don’t do it.
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But then we don't know what support the government offered in the first place.

AB rejected it, but would he have rejected virtually anything just for the sake of it? I have a strong suspicion the answer is yes.
 
hertfordseasider said:
We also have one of the biggest student populations in the country and we aren't getting the numbers of Covidcases there...... why?
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Could it be that the student accommodation in Cambridge is somewhat different to that found in other cities? More spread out, less communal facilities etc?

Just guessing.
 
Lost Seasider said:
But then we don't know what support the government offered in the first place.

AB rejected it, but would he have rejected virtually anything just for the sake of it? I have a strong suspicion the answer is yes.
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You might be right I don’t know. Personally I don’t buy the AB doing this solely for his own political gain argument. I think he has done with Westminster anyway. He may have been leading the charge but plenty of others, and from other sides, are behind him now, and he risks being eaten alive by the press.
 
glasshalffull said:
You might be right I don’t know.
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It follows a pattern of local politicians, usually from opposition parties, complaining about what the government does no matter what they do, it's starting to look organised and politically motivated rather than fair comment.

In extremis, in Middlesbrough there's evidence of the Mayor asking for specific restrictions one day then complaining about them when they're announced the next day.
 
Lost Seasider said:
It follows a pattern of local politicians, usually from opposition parties, complaining about what the government does no matter what they do, it's starting to look organised and politically motivated rather than fair comment.

In extremis, in Middlesbrough there's evidence of the Mayor asking for specific restrictions one day then complaining about them when they're announced the next day.
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If he was a lone voice on this one your argument might have more substance. Personally I have never liked the idea of appointing local mayors in the first place for exactly this reason.
Anyway it is what it is. We are all between a rock and a hard place now. Good luck to all of them in sorting it out in the best way they can for all of us.
 
deary said:
Is tier 3 not for areas with mainly 3rd class Citizens? 🤪

Simples way of looking at it.
This has little to do with social standing or wealth btw but EVERYTHING to do with ATTITUDE towards the pandemic.

1st class citizens are very concientious about spreading the virus and follow the guidelines to keep infection levels down.👍

2nd class citizens are on the whole doing most things right but could do better as they are slacking in some key areas🤞

3td class citizens tend not to give a fook, will live their life how they want and have scant regards for the possible consequences to others.👎

3rd class citizens could be youngsters as the virus 'doesnt affect us' Middle aged 'I fkin know best' types or even some of the deluded or 'when its my time. its my time' elderly?

Areas that have more 3rd class citizens around will get 3rd tier restrictions.

simple
Its hardly rocket science
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So you are coming on a Blackpool fans site telling us that we are 3rd class citizens?
 
Lost Seasider said:
He's a labour party member, a former labour MP and cabinet minister under Brown, there is every reason to question his bona fides and doubt his motivation.

First off, it looks like he's trying to boost his standing within the party, possibly for a subsequent return to parliament and perhaps even an eye to challenging for the leadership.

Secondly, it looks like he's playing politics with the lives of the people he's supposed to represent to give the labour party a gain at the national level.

Finally, there is no way the government can allow itself to be held to ransom like this, it would set a precedent that every other city would follow if they had to raise the lockdown level.

Frankly disgusting behaviour from Mr Burnham and the labour party in general
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Lost Seasider said:
But then we don't know what support the government offered in the first place.

AB rejected it, but would he have rejected virtually anything just for the sake of it? I have a strong suspicion the answer is yes.
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Really? Or perhaps he's doing his best to look after the needs of local businesses.
 
I understood that the support was two thirds and that AB wanted the 80% previously given. Not much difference in reality.
 
Righty DC breaks the Rules, the Left go mental.

Lefty AB breaks the rules, the Left applaud.

classic double standards. For clarity I support AB approach on this.
 
tommytwojags said:
I understood that the support was two thirds and that AB wanted the 80% previously given. Not much difference in reality.
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Support is only if your business is forced to close. If it isn't forced to close but suffers as a result of the measures you get nothing
 
Scaramanga said:
Righty DC breaks the Rules, the Left go mental.

Lefty AB breaks the rules, the Left applaud.

classic double standards. For clarity I support AB approach on this.
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Must've missed that one. What rules has he broken? As far as I'm aware all he has done is said to the government if you want to close my town down then you have to pay for it. Didn't realise that was a crime
 
So if he refuses to accept T3 due to not getting the funds he wants then he’s breaking the law. Quite simple really
 
tommytwojags said:
I understood that the support was two thirds and that AB wanted the 80% previously given. Not much difference in reality.
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Not unless you're one of those having to survive on 66% of your expected income. For many 80% made life very difficult and now with debts still to clear after being furloughed are likely to find themselves with a near impossible task.
It's far too easy for the unaffected to overlook the harsh reality for a lot of people.
 
Udo_onwere said:
Not unless you're one of those having to survive on 66% of your expected income. For many 80% made life very difficult and now with debts still to clear after being furloughed are likely to find themselves with a near impossible task.
It's far too easy for the unaffected to overlook the harsh reality for a lot of people.
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100% of wages = even better
 
TheSpiritOf53 said:
So you are coming on a Blackpool fans site telling us that we are 3rd class citizens?
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🧐 Are Blackpool in tier 3?
If so yes we either have too many acting like '3rd class citizens' or an influx 3rd class visitors.
The word 'class' in this instance is used to state how seriously people class the threat of the pandemic & not about social status or demographics.
 
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Watching want AB actually said might enlighten a few (and then again.......)

When London was approaching the same sort of numbers of cases, the rest of the country wasn't. The whole country was shut down, 80% furlough, etc etc etc. Manchester. Liverpool and Tyne at similar levels, derisory support, no money left, do as you are told. What he is calling for is a nationwide lockdown again.

Now, you can agree or disagree about the effectiveness or otherwise of lockdowns, national or regional. What you cannot argue with is that support for these cities is nothing like it was when London was the infection's epicentre in the UK

Oh, and why are Conservative Lancashire allowed Gyms but Labour Liverpool aren't? Is it any wonder people are claiming that they are confused?
 
Tangerinemoss said:
When London was approaching the same sort of numbers of cases, the rest of the country wasn't.
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The difference between then and now is testing, we simply did not know who had the virus back in March, we have a much better idea now.

There's every chance of London ending up back in level 3 BTW, and they'll no doubt get the same support as everywhere else.
 
So Lancs county agrees to go into Tier 3 and has been paid millions extra by the Govt to cover people’s lost income. But the Govt does not want to do an equal deal, pro rata, with AB’s Manchester. I wonder why? Well, it must be that damn politics again...

Lancs has a population of 1,498,300
There are 11 Tory-held constituencies out of 16.

Greater Manchester has a population of 2,682,500
There are 9 Tory-held constituencies out of 27. The other 18 are Labour-held.

Frankly, we know that the Tories throw money into constituencies that they hold, in order to prop up their vote, whereas they scorn the big cities since they feel unable to bribe the electorate to turn their way. So why waste the money? Hence all the big cuts in large town and city council services.

Lancs has only about half the population and less poor who qualify for the support, so it will cost the Govt much less than GtrMC, while being able to blame AB for the impasse. I am not surprised AB is going public, if only to show up these shysters for what they are. There is no point in arguing in a closed room with those who hold the purse strings.
 
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To be fair the testing is a joke ,the test and trace is a joke, who knows if you can be reinfected and we are no nearer to a vaccine...I am not sure how much we have learned about this virus at all
 
Recently, Robert Jenrick (Communities Sec) and Jake Berry (his deputy) have been found out in “independently” nominating towns in each other’s Tory-held constituencies for a £25 million Govt grant each. Darwen and Newark respectively. Talk about “you scratch my back and I’ll scratch yours”.
 
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Tangerinemoss said:
The whole country was shut down, 80% furlough, etc etc etc. Manchester. Liverpool and Tyne at similar levels, derisory support, no money left, do as you are told.
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It seems that there's a strong element of disinformation and confusion about what's going on with Manchester.

Wages and other grants to businesses are part of the Job Support Scheme, which is centrally funded and centrally administered, it has nothing at all to do with the individual Mayors or local authorities.

What Mr Burnham therefore seems to be demanding is more money for himself, to spend on whatever he wants, and which is likely to be of very minimal benefit if any to local businesses.

Hence why the relatively small amounts of extra funding being granted are actually far more generous than they might seem at first glance.

In fact there's an argument that Mr Burnham may be harming local businesses who can't open because there's no customers, but don't qualify for JSS because the region is not in tier 3.
 
Lost Seasider said:
It seems that there's a strong element of disinformation and confusion about what's going on with Manchester.

Wages and other grants to businesses are part of the Job Support Scheme, which is centrally funded and centrally administered, it has nothing at all to do with the individual Mayors or local authorities.

What Mr Burnham therefore seems to be demanding is more money for himself, to spend on whatever he wants, and which is likely to be of very minimal benefit if any to local businesses.

Hence why the relatively small amounts of extra funding being granted are actually far more generous than they might seem at first glance.

In fact there's an argument that Mr Burnham may be harming local businesses who can't open because there's no customers, but don't qualify for JSS because the region is not in tier 3.
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As has been pointed out, and you have chosen to ignore, Andy Burnham has cross party support for his stance, including from Graham Brady, the chair of the Tory 1922 backbench committee.

Various politicians of all persuasions in Lancashire are also quite clear that they were bullied by Central Government into accepting the Lancs deal.

In short it’s not a party political matter despite your attempts to paint it as such. The only ones attempting to make it party political are you and the usual suspects on here.

I suggest you stick to your home produced graphs and made up statistics about Covid 19. At least they provide some amusement.
 
“This is Manchester. We do things differently here.”.... Tony Wilson

At least AB is sticking up for the people and businesses that live and work in GM and not like Lancashire following the party line.... Keep it up Andy
 
Mr Tangerine Man said:
“This is Manchester. We do things differently here.”.... Tony Wilson

At least AB is sticking up for the people and businesses that live and work in GM and not like Lancashire following the party line.... Keep it up Andy
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And to repeat my earlier point, people and businesses are supported out of a central fund, it has nothing at all to do with AB or the money he wants for himself.
 
What next? Andy Burnham is now saying the government is exaggerating the impact of Coronavirus. Better tell that to the tens of thousands of bereaved families Andy.
 
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