Masks again.

Insider

Insider

Well-known member
This article gives an interesting opinion.
www.spectator.co.uk

Do face masks work? A note on the evidence

Should we, or should we not be compelled to wear face masks during a virus epidemic? It sounds a simple enough question. Indeed the answer seems so obvious to many, including the Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, that they are questioning why this measure is not already mandatory. Surgeons wear them...
www.spectator.co.uk www.spectator.co.uk
 
The Centre for Disease Control website in the US has some useful tips for making your own face masks
 
If a viral particle or virion is capable of surviving outside a living host long enough to be passed by airborne transmission as they keep saying it does then you would assume these virions are extremely small making these masks micron sizes useless to keeping out such small particles.Also dont they also say any mucus surface of your body can be infected from these droplets? So thats your nose and your eye's that would need protection.
 
Must say I'd feel happier if others wore masks on transport - I'll also be wearing disposable gloves as soon as I'm back on the tram.
 
Seems to me the sensible advice is if you're going in a really crowded area like a tram or bus then wear one but if you're sat alone in your car and have one on (as I have seen countless times) you will look like an utter plum!
 
This Chinese scientific study of an actual Coronavirus incident is worth a read, if you haven’t seen it already or are considering using public transport... then note section at the end: none of those passengers who wore face masks were infected. There you go....
 
tangerine_neil said:
This Chinese scientific study of an actual Coronavirus incident is worth a read, if you haven’t seen it already or are considering using public transport... then note section at the end: none of those passengers who wore face masks were infected. There you go....
Click to expand...
Well there's a surprise! 😳
 
tangerine_neil said:
www.scmp.com

Coronavirus can travel twice as far as official ‘safe distance’, study says

Health authorities advise people to stay 1-2 metres apart, but researchers found that a bus passenger infected fellow travellers sitting 4.5 metres away.
www.scmp.com www.scmp.com
Click to expand...
That article doesn't say whether 'A' touched anything on the bus which could have transmitted the desease, nor does it say who wore masks.

But it dies conclude
“Our advice is to wear a face mask all the way [through the bus ride],” they added.
 
It’s also telling the people immediately next to and also in front of the infected carrier passenger, within 0.5m did not catch it. Yet someone at the far end of the bus (4.5m) without a mask, did catch it.

“The researchers also found that none of those passengers in the two buses who wore face masks were infected.”
 
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I don’t go on public transport. Will I have to wear one in my car when I’m on my own like I see some idiots now?
 
Will wear one if I ever go in a public indoor area.

To add to wearing them in the car I've seen a few people wearing them out for a walk in total solitude with no other people in sight which seems a bit unnecessary.
 
I'm not sure that "A few people caught it of a bloke on a bus" who was sat more than 1-2 metres away is a particularly scientific study TBH.

Interesting Article which I missed at the weekend below...It seems we are likely to have a competing scientific advisory group....

www.theguardian.com

Public's trust in science at risk, warns former No 10 adviser

Ex-chief scientific adviser sets up rival panel of experts over Covid-19 ‘lack of transparency’
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
If anyone is a key worker and needs masks I have a contact for them. Presently selling them to nursing homes.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I'm not sure that "A few people caught it of a bloke on a bus" who was sat more than 1-2 metres away is a particularly scientific study TBH.

Interesting Article which I missed at the weekend below...It seems we are likely to have a competing scientific advisory group....

www.theguardian.com

Public's trust in science at risk, warns former No 10 adviser

Ex-chief scientific adviser sets up rival panel of experts over Covid-19 ‘lack of transparency’
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
Click to expand...
It was a scientific study by team of Chinese epidemiologists, from Hunan Provincial Centre for Disease Control and Prevention, using reconstruction and closed circuit television cameras. The paper was published in peer-review journal Practical Preventive Medicine.
So not to be dismissed lightly.
 
tangerine_neil said:
It was a scientific study by team of Chinese epidemiologists, from Hunan Provincial Centre for Disease Control and Prevention, using reconstruction and closed circuit television cameras. The paper was published in peer-review journal Practical Preventive Medicine.
So not to be dismissed lightly.
Click to expand...
It doesn’t sound like it has been peer reviewed neil?

When you say reconstructed, what did they do?

Did they take a bus and reconstruct the journey or did they watch the actual journey back on CCTV?

Did they monitor all passengers prior to accessing the bus?

Was the bus subject to complete disinfection prior to the study?

Was the bus swabbed after the study to determine possible alternative method of transmission?

Was the Air Conditioning recycling air and if so what were the inlet and outlet positions?

What measures were used to confirm the distance travelled by the virus in the air in droplet aerosol form? Or is this assumption simply based on position of passengers?

What measures to determine length of time in atmosphere ? Or assumption based on second set of passengers?

How is conclusion written?

Do they unequivocally conclude or do they state that ‘there is a possibility’?
 
I don’t think there’s much debate on whether wearing a mask in a more crowded, enclosed area helps prevent spread - it’s common sense. I guess the reason this hasn’t been fully endorsed by our government is because they’re frightened to death that every fecker will buy them up and leave less available for the people who need them and know how to use them properly like health workers.

When you see people walking outside alone with nobody anywhere near them, or driving alone wearing masks then you understand why the Government are reluctant to fully endorse them with some of the morons in our country.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
It’s been retracted

Click to expand...
Looks like it’s been retracted for the same sort of concerns you have added above. It’s still worth reiterating that no-one wearing a face mask was infected, including those sitting the closest and potentially subject to aerosol.
It might also be worth considering the retraction is due to the concerns that any social distancing measures of more than 2m are completely unworkable, especially on public transport.
 
pooljimbo said:
I don’t think there’s much debate on whether wearing a mask in a more crowded, enclosed area helps prevent spread - it’s common sense. I guess the reason this hasn’t been fully endorsed by our government is because they’re frightened to death that every fecker will buy them up and leave less available for the people who need them and know how to use them properly like health workers.

When you see people walking outside alone with nobody anywhere near them, or driving alone wearing masks then you understand why the Government are reluctant to fully endorse them with some of the morons in our country.
Click to expand...
The Government must think we are complete idiots.
On one hand they are telling us that PPE must be prioritised to PROTECT the front line NHS staff, then on the other, they are telling us they won’t offer any protection for the public and to keep distancing and washing our hands.

Can’t have it both ways.

The truth of the matter is that the protection goes both ways: it stops an infected person spreading the virus as easily, and it helps to prevent everyone else from catching it.
 
tangerine_neil said:
Looks like it’s been retracted for the same sort of concerns you have added above. It’s still worth reiterating that no-one wearing a face mask was infected, including those sitting the closest and potentially subject to aerosol.
It might also be worth considering the retraction is due to the concerns that any social distancing measures of more than 2m are completely unworkable, especially on public transport.
Click to expand...

It's worth noting, but that may be down to the mask preventing face touching rather than aerosol inhalation. Whichever way you look at it, a small observational study with no proper control measures is not a basis to form a 'scientific' conclusion. In fact, when you look at where the person was sat on the bus, it seems that transmission would most likely have occured through face touching.... The infected person would have passed pretty much all seats and so droplets may have been on the floor, on various touch points etc..

There's arguments that masks (in unqualified hands) can be a source to harbour infection and perhaps increase viral load by concentrating virus inhalation on someone already infected. Masks may also prevent us from being 'contaminated' with virus and bacteria that helps maintain a healthy immune system.

For me, the jury is out and I feel that masks are possibly best restricted to certain settings, rather than being used on a widespread basis.
 
Oh, there’s definitely ways a mask can be an issue.
Wrong sizes. Badly fitted. Face touching. Saturated. Re-using. False sense of security.
But that’s when education & instruction should come into it. Wouldn’t take much to upskill people on the correct fitting, removal and safe disposal of a face mask using the many multi-media sources. The Government have spent enough money on hand washing information.
 
There's also the issue of disposal... When I've been out and about recently the number of disposable gloves littering the streets is pretty grim. All of which presents a potential infection hazzard.
 
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