Nerys Hughes is turning in her grave

You need to try working 12 hour shifts often including weekends without a pay rise for years and then get offered peanuts and expected to accept it because your public sector.
Why should anyone accept a pittance of a pay rise when inflation is at a 40 year high at 11.1% and the mortgage rate expected to rise yet again today?
Energy suppliers and fuel companies making eye watering profits and prices still shooting up yet these people are expected to just turn over and accept it?
Why do we have food banks in this country in the 21st century?
Well done to everyone currently on strike as they are doing it for a reason such a shame some can’t see that.
If Baroness Mone hadn’t milked away millions on PPE maybe there would be a few more quid in the pot?
I was only reading in the paper yesterday a £25m order for PPE with a company in China was cancelled as it was deemed as not fit for purpose so £25m just tossed into the wind as it was written off yet some people are moaning about a decent pay for Nursing staff. 🤷‍♂️
 
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Jaffa_The_Hut said:
You need to try working 12 hour shifts often including weekends without a pay rise for years and then get offered peanuts and expected to accept it because your public sector.
Why should anyone accept a pittance of a pay rise when inflation is at a 40 year high at 11.1% and the mortgage rate expected to rise yet again today?
Energy suppliers and fuel companies making eye watering profits and prices still shooting up yet these people are expected to just turn over and accept it?
Why do we have food banks in this country in the 21st century?
Well done to everyone currently on strike as they are doing it for a reason such a shame some can’t see that.
If Baroness Mone hadn’t milked away millions on PPE maybe there would be a few more quid in the pot?
I was only reading in the paper yesterday a £25m order for PPE with a company in China was cancelled as it was deemed as not fit for purpose so £25m just tossed into the wind as it was written off yet some people are moaning about a decent pay for Nursing staff. 🤷‍♂️
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And the £30bn Truss/Kwarteng fuck up.
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
You need to try working 12 hour shifts often including weekends without a pay rise for years and then get offered peanuts and expected to accept it because your public sector.
Why should anyone accept a pittance of a pay rise when inflation is at a 40 year high at 11.1% and the mortgage rate expected to rise yet again today?
Energy suppliers and fuel companies making eye watering profits and prices still shooting up yet these people are expected to just turn over and accept it?
Why do we have food banks in this country in the 21st century?
Well done to everyone currently on strike as they are doing it for a reason such a shame some can’t see that.
If Baroness Mone hadn’t milked away millions on PPE maybe there would be a few more quid in the pot?
I was only reading in the paper yesterday a £25m order for PPE with a company in China was cancelled as it was deemed as not fit for purpose so £25m just tossed into the wind as it was written off yet some people are moaning about a decent pay for Nursing staff. 🤷‍♂️
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Well put.
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
You need to try working 12 hour shifts often including weekends without a pay rise for years and then get offered peanuts and expected to accept it because your public sector.
Why should anyone accept a pittance of a pay rise when inflation is at a 40 year high at 11.1% and the mortgage rate expected to rise yet again today?
Energy suppliers and fuel companies making eye watering profits and prices still shooting up yet these people are expected to just turn over and accept it?
Why do we have food banks in this country in the 21st century?
Well done to everyone currently on strike as they are doing it for a reason such a shame some can’t see that.
If Baroness Mone hadn’t milked away millions on PPE maybe there would be a few more quid in the pot?
I was only reading in the paper yesterday a £25m order for PPE with a company in China was cancelled as it was deemed as not fit for purpose so £25m just tossed into the wind as it was written off yet some people are moaning about a decent pay for Nursing staff. 🤷‍♂️
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The pay review board met last year when inflation was at 2% and offered 3%, so that is what this lot are sticking to. Seems eminently fair🙈
 
TotallyTangerine said:
As a nurse, the idea of striking has always been an anathema to me. Enough is enough though and I’m behind this action 100 percent. Safe practice is the very fundament of nursing….
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And TT - if it wasn't plainly obvious, there's plenty who are wholeheartedly behind you. Disgraceful treatment of nurses and other public sector workers against a backdrop of wasted money, contracts for friends and no action against energy companies who are making billions on the back of a war.

The sad thing is, a lot of the braindead in the country won't be able to see that. Just the inevitable bad news story that will no doubt follow...
 
Nurses deserve a decent pay rise, but to ask for 19% is beyond all common sense.

I remember in the 70's when inflation was rife and the Miners at that time were striking for pay rises above 20%, they were awarded around 26/27% from memory, which The then Government gave them. They were back two years later wanting more, resulting in the three day week, and eventually the year of discontent. Inflation kept on rising and ended with the, 'well loved on here' ,Iron Lady as PM.

We cannot afford to go back to those days and my solutions would be as follows:

1. Trainee Nurses, who presently have to attain a University Degree at their own expense, should be awarded a Bursary;
2. The lower paid should be given a decent pay rise, amount to be agreed by both sides, for the next two years, hopefully inflation will be back under control after that period;
3. Higher paid Nurses, according to the Jeremy Vine show on Radio Two yesterday, can earn up to £90,000 per annum. These nurses although obviously well qualified should not expect the same increase as those at the lower end of the profession;
4, Hospital Trusts should look at where money can be saved by cutting some of the 'non' jobs, using less consultancies (not surgeons) form outside the NHS;
5 The Government should consider buying out the contracts signed by the previous Labour Government when building new hospitals, which appear to eat money from the NHS purse;
6. As it is every persons right to be a member of a trade union, and as they charge an annual subscription for the right, they should be self funding and not rely on full time officials being paid for by the general taxpayer, I know this suggestion will go down like a lead balloon.

No doubt I will be vilified for sticking my nose into an area that should not concern me, but something has to be done, and done quickly.

Retreats for his daily shower with tin helmet in place.
 
Curryman said:
Nurses deserve a decent pay rise, but to ask for 19% is beyond all common sense.

I remember in the 70's when inflation was rife and the Miners at that time were striking for pay rises above 20%, they were awarded around 26/27% from memory, which The then Government gave them. They were back two years later wanting more, resulting in the three day week, and eventually the year of discontent. Inflation kept on rising and ended with the, 'well loved on here' ,Iron Lady as PM.

We cannot afford to go back to those days and my solutions would be as follows:

1. Trainee Nurses, who presently have to attain a University Degree at their own expense, should be awarded a Bursary;
2. The lower paid should be given a decent pay rise, amount to be agreed by both sides, for the next two years, hopefully inflation will be back under control after that period;
3. Higher paid Nurses, according to the Jeremy Vine show on Radio Two yesterday, can earn up to £90,000 per annum. These nurses although obviously well qualified should not expect the same increase as those at the lower end of the profession;
4, Hospital Trusts should look at where money can be saved by cutting some of the 'non' jobs, using less consultancies (not surgeons) form outside the NHS;
5 The Government should consider buying out the contracts signed by the previous Labour Government when building new hospitals, which appear to eat money from the NHS purse;
6. As it is every persons right to be a member of a trade union, and as they charge an annual subscription for the right, they should be self funding and not rely on full time officials being paid for by the general taxpayer, I know this suggestion will go down like a lead balloon.

No doubt I will be vilified for sticking my nose into an area that should not concern me, but something has to be done, and done quickly.

Retreats for his daily shower with tin helmet in place.
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I agree that 19% is unrealistic and that some nursing staff are well paid. For me, the issue isn’t about the money (I certainly didn’t enter the profession for the financial rewards) rather the fact that the staffing levels are dire and consequently unsafe.
 
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TotallyTangerine said:
I agree that 19% is unrealistic and that some nursing staff are well paid. For me, the issue isn’t about the money (I certainly didn’t enter the profession for the financial rewards) rather the fact that the staffing levels are dire and consequently unsafe.
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Why weren't the unions similarly exercised earlier in the year when Sajid Javid was threatening to sack ~20% of the (unvaccinated) frontline workforce? That one went right to the wire but I don't recall the unions getting involved.

For most, I think it is about money, which is fair enough but maybe the % asked for is too much.
 
rockontommy said:
Why weren't the unions similarly exercised earlier in the year when Sajid Javid was threatening to sack ~20% of the (unvaccinated) frontline workforce? That one went right to the wire but I don't recall the unions getting involved.

For most, I think it is about money, which is fair enough but maybe the % asked for is too much.
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The percentage looks crazy in an isolated context, less so against year after year of below inflation offers. Plus you have to go in strong to get something genuinely worthwhile. They've been abused for too long and it needs to end.

Wonder how much was spent on those Nightingale hospitals that never got used?
 
rockontommy said:
Why weren't the unions similarly exercised earlier in the year when Sajid Javid was threatening to sack ~20% of the (unvaccinated) frontline workforce? That one went right to the wire but I don't recall the unions getting involved.

For most, I think it is about money, which is fair enough but maybe the % asked for is too much.
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Agree with your last para.
 
straightatthewall said:
The percentage looks crazy in an isolated context, less so against year after year of below inflation offers. Plus you have to go in strong to get something genuinely worthwhile. They've been abused for too long and it needs to end.

Wonder how much was spent on those Nightingale hospitals that never got used?
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The one expense that was fully justified imho. I am firmly of the belief that if we did absolutely nothing more than let the Nightingales fill up, there'd be less dead people overall, more money, better outcomes all around. A bit radical for many to digest at this stage but I've been right about everything else so feel free to bookmark 🤪

Agree about the % asked for. They definitely deserve the full amount even if they are being dishonest framing it around patient safety. The government is currently trying to unscramble their own omelette around inflation. They might as well give the raise because the other strikes are going to continue regardless until Labour get in.
 
It's called negotiations, workers ask for something, you talk, an offer is made, then you talk etc etc. This government is not prepared to negotiate and therein lies the problem.
 
Curryman said:
Nurses deserve a decent pay rise, but to ask for 19% is beyond all common sense.

I remember in the 70's when inflation was rife and the Miners at that time were striking for pay rises above 20%, they were awarded around 26/27% from memory, which The then Government gave them. They were back two years later wanting more, resulting in the three day week, and eventually the year of discontent. Inflation kept on rising and ended with the, 'well loved on here' ,Iron Lady as PM.

We cannot afford to go back to those days and my solutions would be as follows:

1. Trainee Nurses, who presently have to attain a University Degree at their own expense, should be awarded a Bursary;
2. The lower paid should be given a decent pay rise, amount to be agreed by both sides, for the next two years, hopefully inflation will be back under control after that period;
3. Higher paid Nurses, according to the Jeremy Vine show on Radio Two yesterday, can earn up to £90,000 per annum. These nurses although obviously well qualified should not expect the same increase as those at the lower end of the profession;
4, Hospital Trusts should look at where money can be saved by cutting some of the 'non' jobs, using less consultancies (not surgeons) form outside the NHS;
5 The Government should consider buying out the contracts signed by the previous Labour Government when building new hospitals, which appear to eat money from the NHS purse;
6. As it is every persons right to be a member of a trade union, and as they charge an annual subscription for the right, they should be self funding and not rely on full time officials being paid for by the general taxpayer, I know this suggestion will go down like a lead balloon.

No doubt I will be vilified for sticking my nose into an area that should not concern me, but something has to be done, and done quickly.

Retreats for his daily shower with tin helmet in place.
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Just two points.
1. The nurses on £90k+ are Directors of nursing at health trusts. Not all of those posts offer salaries of £90k.
2. Full time union officials are not paid by the general tax-payer. This misinformation relates solely to trades unions operating in the public sector, and it does not involve the payment of wages or salaries. What happens is that elected trades union representatives are given facility time to perform their TU duties. These representatives are entitled to carry out these duties during work time and whilst they are being paid for doing their contracted work. The same provision is made for TU members to attend Annual General Meetings and for delegates to attend conferences. The amount of facility time is strictly controlled.
 
Curryman said:
Nurses deserve a decent pay rise, but to ask for 19% is beyond all common sense.

I remember in the 70's when inflation was rife and the Miners at that time were striking for pay rises above 20%, they were awarded around 26/27% from memory, which The then Government gave them. They were back two years later wanting more, resulting in the three day week, and eventually the year of discontent. Inflation kept on rising and ended with the, 'well loved on here' ,Iron Lady as PM.

We cannot afford to go back to those days and my solutions would be as follows:

1. Trainee Nurses, who presently have to attain a University Degree at their own expense, should be awarded a Bursary;
2. The lower paid should be given a decent pay rise, amount to be agreed by both sides, for the next two years, hopefully inflation will be back under control after that period;
3. Higher paid Nurses, according to the Jeremy Vine show on Radio Two yesterday, can earn up to £90,000 per annum. These nurses although obviously well qualified should not expect the same increase as those at the lower end of the profession;
4, Hospital Trusts should look at where money can be saved by cutting some of the 'non' jobs, using less consultancies (not surgeons) form outside the NHS;
5 The Government should consider buying out the contracts signed by the previous Labour Government when building new hospitals, which appear to eat money from the NHS purse;
6. As it is every persons right to be a member of a trade union, and as they charge an annual subscription for the right, they should be self funding and not rely on full time officials being paid for by the general taxpayer, I know this suggestion will go down like a lead balloon.

No doubt I will be vilified for sticking my nose into an area that should not concern me, but something has to be done, and done quickly.

Retreats for his daily shower with tin helmet in place.
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I listened to Jeremy Vine on radio 2 on Thursday. It was interesting what the nurses who aren’t striking had to say.
Civil servants next. Not sure where it will all end or what is the right course of action as most public workers have had a below inflation payrise for years. Will we all get the same public support ? Hope so.
 
As public sector wage rises are only indirectly inflationary, we do still have huge inflationary pressures mounting elsewhere. As private sector workers attempt to close the gap on public sector earnings we will have entered a spiral of rising costs. Despite public sector wage restraint over recent years the gap still hasn’t closed (Source: ONS). Which just goes to show how shit wage conditions have become the norm in the private sector. Nevermind all the additional public sector benefits and pensions.
 
The NHS staff do need to be realistic in their demands for increased pay. The current 19% is obviously their starting point for the negotiations.
The big issue appears to be the terribly low staffing levels.
Perhaps the NHS should clear our the hugely overpaid senior administrators, & woke staff and use the savings to employ front line resources?
I laugh each year, when I see MP's getting paid well above inflation rises, and respond by saying - "we have to accept it, as it's from an independent pay body" i.e. their chums! In fairness, a few do have principles and decline the rise.
 
rockontommy said:
The one expense that was fully justified imho. I am firmly of the belief that if we did absolutely nothing more than let the Nightingales fill up, there'd be less dead people overall, more money, better outcomes all around. A bit radical for many to digest at this stage but I've been right about everything else so feel free to bookmark 🤪

Agree about the % asked for. They definitely deserve the full amount even if they are being dishonest framing it around patient safety. The government is currently trying to unscramble their own omelette around inflation. They might as well give the raise because the other strikes are going to continue regardless until Labour get in.
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Perhaps it could be perceived (by the cynically minded!) as dishonesty, framing the strike action around patient safety. The additional responsibility though as a result of low staffing levels is incredibly stressful.. I’m having a break from practice at the moment due to family commitments but have maintained my registration and would love to return to work at some stage but will definitely be swayed by the staffing levels..
 
TotallyTangerine said:
Perhaps it could be perceived (by the cynically minded!) as dishonesty, framing the strike action around patient safety. The additional responsibility though as a result of low staffing levels is incredibly stressful.. I’m having a break from practice at the moment due to family commitments but have maintained my registration and would love to return to work at some stage but will definitely be swayed by the staffing levels..
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It's definitely dishonesty. If you can show me where the unions piped up earlier this year when Javid was threatening to decimate the NHS front line, I'm all ears. It's entirely about money which is fine. If it was purely about staffing levels, the unions and professional bodies would be on their hands and knees grovelling to their unvaccinated members begging them to return to practice and apologising for the recent mandates.
 
Curryman said:
Nurses deserve a decent pay rise, but to ask for 19% is beyond all common sense.

I remember in the 70's when inflation was rife and the Miners at that time were striking for pay rises above 20%, they were awarded around 26/27% from memory, which The then Government gave them. They were back two years later wanting more, resulting in the three day week, and eventually the year of discontent. Inflation kept on rising and ended with the, 'well loved on here' ,Iron Lady as PM.

We cannot afford to go back to those days and my solutions would be as follows:

1. Trainee Nurses, who presently have to attain a University Degree at their own expense, should be awarded a Bursary;
2. The lower paid should be given a decent pay rise, amount to be agreed by both sides, for the next two years, hopefully inflation will be back under control after that period;
3. Higher paid Nurses, according to the Jeremy Vine show on Radio Two yesterday, can earn up to £90,000 per annum. These nurses although obviously well qualified should not expect the same increase as those at the lower end of the profession;
4, Hospital Trusts should look at where money can be saved by cutting some of the 'non' jobs, using less consultancies (not surgeons) form outside the NHS;
5 The Government should consider buying out the contracts signed by the previous Labour Government when building new hospitals, which appear to eat money from the NHS purse;
6. As it is every persons right to be a member of a trade union, and as they charge an annual subscription for the right, they should be self funding and not rely on full time officials being paid for by the general taxpayer, I know this suggestion will go down like a lead balloon.

No doubt I will be vilified for sticking my nose into an area that should not concern me, but something has to be done, and done quickly.

Retreats for his daily shower with tin helmet in place.
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Excellent post.
 
1. There is a link between pay and recruitment/retention but this strike isn’t primarily about patient safety.
2. The nhs workers do merit a greater pay rise than the mere two or three percent recommended by the pay review body. Inflation has soared since the pay review body met. There needs to be a middle ground pay award.
3. It should be illegal to strike in certain roles eg ambulance workers. It’s morally wrong to put lives at risk in order to bargain for a pay rise.
4. The nhs has never had so much money spent on it. And arguably it’s never been in such a mess. That situation can’t go on. It’s needs huge reform.
5. I didn’t clap for the nhs. I admired the front line workers who were on the covid wards etc. But I didn’t agree with the shutting of many services for the supposed good of our health. Failing to diagnose and treat cancer due to a complete overreaction to covid was setting the nhs up to fail. Now we are reaping what we sowed. We were told to stay at home to protect the nhs and save lives. That couldn’t have been further from the truth. The covid countermeasures have screwed the nhs for a generation if not longer.
6. Getting back to the strikes - and more generally the wider strikes across the rail network etc., there is a real case for a sizeable rise for the lower paid. However there’s no justifying huge rises for the higher paid at this time. Let’s protect the lower paid from the cost of living but for those on £50k or much much higher? Well they can take the hit and forego a rise to help their lower paid colleagues get by.
 
Liz Truss crashed the economy by 30 billion. Track and trace an unmitigated disaster another 30 billion. 10 billion on useless PPE, some of which appears to be sitting in the offshore Jersey accounts of Tory Peers.
They can't afford to pay the nurses and ambulance drivers a decent wage, because that 10 billion needs to go to frontline services like.....nurses and ambulance drivers ?
Those nasty unions and ordinary working people wanting a piece of our pie ? Sorry lads the working classes are finally on to you and your FCUKED.
 
rockontommy said:
Why weren't the unions similarly exercised earlier in the year when Sajid Javid was threatening to sack ~20% of the (unvaccinated) frontline workforce? That one went right to the wire but I don't recall the unions getting involved.

For most, I think it is about money, which is fair enough but maybe the % asked for is too much.
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This is just an observation but the most pro lockdown, vaccination obsessives at my place of work are also the union fanatics who never question it and are like religious zealots.
The union cannot be doubted, stop everything because of covid was and is their mantra!
 
gjr69 said:
This is just an observation but the most pro lockdown, vaccination obsessives at my place of work are also the union fanatics who never question it and are like religious zealots.
The union cannot be doubted, stop everything because of covid was and is their mantra!
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Dangerous people. Never wrong.
 
E
Halifax71 said:
Shockingly misleading article on the BBC.
www.bbc.co.uk

Care workers paid £8,000 less than NHS equivalents in England - study

Social care workers earn about £8,000 a year less than NHS staff, a study suggests - with some relying on food parcels.
www.bbc.co.uk

Band 3 on £27k????

Only in London FFS.

Mrs H was a the top of the scale with 15+ years seniority and earned just shy of £23k.

She's now doing her training but what the hell is the BBCs agenda here.
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Either sack the researcher or as you say a hidden agenda.
 
Killingmesoftly said:
19% is ridiculous..even as a starting point to negotiate….absolute greed…
Every worker in the country is in the same boat…
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It's to make the point that public sector workers have borne the brunt of the austerity years with zero pay rises rising to 1 or 2% at the most. Even when inflation was low, public sector wages didn't keep pace, so the cumulative effect for most is more than 19% to break even.

The other factor is that they are chronically understaffed, in effect doing more than one person's job, so should be recompensed accordingly, despite that Tory MP on the news saying they stand around drinking tea and chatting all day.
 
I blame the Thatcher bitch.

Her mantra was private sector good, public sector bad - I wonder where she got that from?

The Tories have been playing to their bigoted supporters ever since, including the usual suspects on here. The Labour Government went some way, to redressing the imbalance, but the last 12 years have seen a further erosion of public services.

What they'd really like is for EVERYTHING to be privatised- think of the billions they and their friends could make then, and forget any semblance of service in the future.

Just look across the Atlantic to see the nightmare.
 
I don't think that the nurses expect to get 19%.
It's a starting point, you never start low.
I think about 9/10% will eventually be agreed.
Good luck to them.
Where would we be without them?
 
Davepick said:
I don't think that the nurses expect to get 19%.
It's a starting point, you never start low.
I think about 9/10% will eventually be agreed.
Good luck to them.
Where would we be without them?
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Agree. They are worth every penny of the 19% working ungodly shifts with no breaks for Xmas and bank holidays mopping up peoples piss and shite.

As you say David we desperately need our nurses. And to do that they need to be paid well.

This government can spunk 30 billion overnight on a whim but are not willing to spend less than a third of that to pay nurses a proper wage.
 
I'm of the opinion that anyone should be entitled to fight against a real terms decrease in their wage, and support the nurses in doing so.
However, public support is crucial in these disputes and I can't see support for strike action lasting very long against a demand for a 19% increase when the private sector is looking at around 6% on average. People sometimes cite that public sector workers are doing worse than private sector, and while that's true in the medium term, in the immediate aftermath of these shocks it's actually the private sector workers that bear the brunt much more severely. So it isn't a simple comparison.

The government is delaying because they know public support will wane, but I'd far rather they agreed a deal quickly, even if it costs the taxpayer a bit extra, in order for people's lives to not be put at risk.
Can I also mention that care workers are worth their weight in gold and I believe (though I don't know this as fact) get paid less than nurses - that's not an argument against nurses btw, more an argument for care workers to get better pay. Hopefully someone can enlighten me if that isn't true, but there are some truly amazing people working in that sector.
 
The public will give their support, I'm convinced of it. The penny is dropping that we've been shafted by self serving, wealthy toffs and when the public are less well off the mood shifts considerably. The tories are not reading this situation well, they think they can kick this continually into the long grass hoping support wanes or the strikes break.
 
It’s a worthy cause but how much have we donated to Ukraine in aid and weapons? That money tree can get a real good snaking when they want it to
 
Based on last year's offer by the pay review board, 50% above inflation then I think this time they are in the right ballpark asking for a 18% increase, roughly 50% above current inflation rate.
 
BFC_53 said:
I'm of the opinion that anyone should be entitled to fight against a real terms decrease in their wage, and support the nurses in doing so.
However, public support is crucial in these disputes and I can't see support for strike action lasting very long against a demand for a 19% increase when the private sector is looking at around 6% on average. People sometimes cite that public sector workers are doing worse than private sector, and while that's true in the medium term, in the immediate aftermath of these shocks it's actually the private sector workers that bear the brunt much more severely. So it isn't a simple comparison.

The government is delaying because they know public support will wane, but I'd far rather they agreed a deal quickly, even if it costs the taxpayer a bit extra, in order for people's lives to not be put at risk.
Can I also mention that care workers are worth their weight in gold and I believe (though I don't know this as fact) get paid less than nurses - that's not an argument against nurses btw, more an argument for care workers to get better pay. Hopefully someone can enlighten me if that isn't true, but there are some truly amazing people working in that sector.
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I’ve worked alongside many wonderful Healthcare Assistants/Support Workers for whom their role is all encompassing and truly a labour of love (even coming in on days off to provide support if needed.) They definitely deserve all the plaudits that come their way.. oh and better pay too, yes….
 
BFC_53 said:
I'm of the opinion that anyone should be entitled to fight against a real terms decrease in their wage, and support the nurses in doing so.
However, public support is crucial in these disputes and I can't see support for strike action lasting very long against a demand for a 19% increase when the private sector is looking at around 6% on average. People sometimes cite that public sector workers are doing worse than private sector, and while that's true in the medium term, in the immediate aftermath of these shocks it's actually the private sector workers that bear the brunt much more severely. So it isn't a simple comparison.

The government is delaying because they know public support will wane, but I'd far rather they agreed a deal quickly, even if it costs the taxpayer a bit extra, in order for people's lives to not be put at risk.
Can I also mention that care workers are worth their weight in gold and I believe (though I don't know this as fact) get paid less than nurses - that's not an argument against nurses btw, more an argument for care workers to get better pay. Hopefully someone can enlighten me if that isn't true, but there are some truly amazing people working in that sector.
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As you say, private sector rises running around 6%. The rest of the public sector aside of the health side have had 2% imposed. No negotiation, just you're getting 2% because we've accidentally fucked the economy. To say the private sector bears the brunt is not all true.

We're all getting shafted.
 
The public sector is littered with idle layabouts taking bogus sick leave milking the system leaving other hardworking civil servants to pick up the pieces

Govt departments wasting absolute fortunes on failed projects and whilst the private sector earns billions through their incompetence .

The problem is the lack of accountability . Waste millions and just get moved to another department to waste some more .

Nurses do an incredible job in the main in difficult circumstances and are a credit to the public sector .

They should be paid far more than the pen pushers in Whitehall but can’t be because of others waste

Absolute disgrace
 
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Wizaard said:
As you say, private sector rises running around 6%. The rest of the public sector aside of the health side have had 2% imposed. No negotiation, just you're getting 2% because we've accidentally fucked the economy. To say the private sector bears the brunt is not all true.

We're all getting shafted.
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I think the government's line of using the 'independent' recommendation and sticking to the 2% or whatever it is incredibly bad, and insulting. Just because it's independent (which really it isn't), doesn't mean it's correct and the Tories need to understand that you can't just use it as an excuse to give workers a massive real terms pay cut, and expect them to just accept it. It's ridiculous and the two parties need to get round a table. They won't get 19%, but they should end up with something much better than what is on offer. They both know that they'll have to meet somewhere in the middle, and the sooner they do that and put an end to the standoff, the better.
I think your point about the economy is right in that listening to the Tories now, you wouldn't think the last six months had ever happened. They may not want us to, but we'll still remember at the next GE about what they did this year. Their membership voting for Truss I think is a large part of why there is now such a distance between the demand and the offer. It's also why a Prime Minister should always be elected via a GE, but that's probably for another debate!

Just on the last point, I didn't say the private sector bear the brunt overall, just that they often do in the immediate aftermath of an economic shock. As an example, public sector pay growth was higher than private sector almost continually between 2009-2013 after the banking crisis. However from 2013 the trend was reversed until Covid came along. The point really was just to say that it isn't an easy, straightforward comparison between public and private pay which I think is often what people try to do when these disputes occur. It really depends how far back you look. But ultimately yes, in the end everyone gets shafted by poor management of the economy.
 
Wizaard said:
It's to make the point that public sector workers have borne the brunt of the austerity years with zero pay rises rising to 1 or 2% at the most. Even when inflation was low, public sector wages didn't keep pace, so the cumulative effect for most is more than 19% to break even.

The other factor is that they are chronically understaffed, in effect doing more than one person's job, so should be recompensed accordingly, despite that Tory MP on the news saying they stand around drinking tea and chatting all day.
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This … plus as anyone with family in the NHS knows, they have their fair share of dodgers who go missing when the pressure is on, leaving others with a massively unfair burden and resulting stress (including and I would say especially during Covid)
 
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