BIG_BERTHA_3
Well-known member
Like I said I don't know if that's true ,it seems a good return if true.
New Training Ground announcement?
- Thread starter Blackpool Are Back!
- Start date
JJpool
Well-known member
How would a training ground make that much?
Certainly not during the last 18 months
BIG_BERTHA_3
Well-known member
No idea
JJpool
Well-known member
Well was curious how that would be possible.
Charging people for 5 a side won't generate huge sums.
A bar will bring in a bit, function room maybe.
Obviously the players developed and the fees you get for being a better academy bring money in but are far from guaranteed.
Brett&Murphs.
Well-known member
Probably worth it, the tins of quality street in them days must of been massive.
todayistheday
Well-known member
Has poolfoot got a swimming pool ?
Insider
Well-known member
I've had a look at the Group accounts of which it appears Poolfoot is a part.
There's not a lot of detail but I think a profit of £1m is wide of the mark alhough of course Covid will have impacted
PS
Never realised the company name for Fleetwood Town is actually "Fleetwood Wanderers Ltd".
There's not a lot of detail but I think a profit of £1m is wide of the mark alhough of course Covid will have impacted
PS
Never realised the company name for Fleetwood Town is actually "Fleetwood Wanderers Ltd".
SirHarryThomson
Well-known member
Poolfoot must have earned a bit when they show the England games on the big screen outside. I think if pool could build something similar it would be a good earner.
JJpool
Well-known member
Yep could do it there but also could at the club for big games and events, could probably sell both out.
LA1 Seasider
Well-known member
AFC Fylde charge best part of £50 an hour for a 5aside pitch and £200+ for a match on their full size pitch. You can see that turning over at least £1k per night in total probably closer to £2k. Fleetwood with a greater number of pitches, a restaurant / sports bar that’s usually got a steady flow of customers would likely bring in even more. So £1 million profit seems a lot but not impossible.
Once you take out the initial investment for the pitches themselves the actual running of the football pitches doesn’t require a huge number of staff and if you have a football club and a training ground you already employ the key grounds staff and own the equipment already. So that cost is pretty low. Runnning a bar / restaurant with a captive audience is always a fairly easy way to make money - and with football clubs already having deals in place with breweries, in house catering staff etc again it’s very much simplified and helps reduce costs.
Apply that same logic to things like a Gym, Conferencing facilities etc and a training ground with community facilities which essentially mirror the business you already run as a football club and as a going concern on match days becomes a fairly straight forward way of making money 365 days a year.
Once you take out the initial investment for the pitches themselves the actual running of the football pitches doesn’t require a huge number of staff and if you have a football club and a training ground you already employ the key grounds staff and own the equipment already. So that cost is pretty low. Runnning a bar / restaurant with a captive audience is always a fairly easy way to make money - and with football clubs already having deals in place with breweries, in house catering staff etc again it’s very much simplified and helps reduce costs.
Apply that same logic to things like a Gym, Conferencing facilities etc and a training ground with community facilities which essentially mirror the business you already run as a football club and as a going concern on match days becomes a fairly straight forward way of making money 365 days a year.
tangerine_neil
Well-known member
I got it.Angelo Saxon…
I’ll leave that one with you
Allmodcons
Well-known member
£12 million pounds sounds an awful lot of money. Or the price of 2 Gary Madines' at his peak..... just saying 
tangerine_neil
Well-known member
I have it on good authority that our TG will be at least as good as Poolfoot. I’m only guessing, but on that basis it could very well have an indoor pitch as well.
IlProfessore
Well-known member
Bristol City, separately from Bristol Bears Rugby - also has a multi-million pounds training facility - the Robins High Performance Centre - which opened earlier this year.Timely article in The Times on what twelve million squid gets you in a training facility. The indoor space is key, which seems to be what Pilleyfoot might be lacking. Of course we could just put an Oyston-style Portakabin next to a dog turd-strewn, overgrown pitch, which is what some people seem to think is acceptable. After all, how could Leicester City, Bristol Bears, Simon Sadler and Neil Critchley possibly know more than some rando on AVFTT?
Turmeric, giant bean bags and ‘love’ – inside Bristol Bears’ £12m training base
Club’s enviable, world-class High Performance Centre underscores their desire to be considered among the leading teams in Europe, not simply the Premiership
Sinckler, the England prop, works out in Bristol’s state-of-the-art gym. “The owner put no limitations on us when we were building that,” says Kevin Geary, the club’s head of strength and conditioning
ROGAN THOMSON/JMP
Rugby clubs usually have a fairly standard set of requirements when they look for a new director of rugby: the CV of a hopeful candidate should include a proven leadership record, a clearly defined playing style and plenty of experience in recruiting high-quality players. What is not usually mentioned in the job spec is a flair for architecture and an eye for grand designs. Since arriving at Bristol Bears four years ago, however, Pat Lam has not only been building a squad capable of competing at the top of the Gallagher Premiership, he has been laying the foundations for the club’s long-term future by overseeing the development of their new High Performance Centre in Abbots Leigh, five miles west of the city centre.
Players such as Kyle Sinckler, Semi Radradra and Harry Randall now spend their working days at a sleek, futuristic, two-storey wood-panelled building, complete with adjoining indoor training barn and two outdoor pitches, nestling behind trees on a hill looking down towards the Clifton Suspension Bridge. Lam cannot claim credit for choosing the panelling or applying the paintwork, but he was passionately committed to ensuring the facility helped nurture the standards of professionalism he was trying to instil, the expansive style he wanted to play and the working environment — “a culture based on love” — that he was striving to create.
“It was all just land when I got here, the building hadn’t started,” Lam said. “I saw the plans, I came to the site and I arrived just in time to influence the plans. I was able to talk to the architects. Fair play to Chris [Booy, the chairman] and Steve [Lansdown, the owner] for giving me that opportunity.”
The Bears have been in their £12 million training ground for just over a year, having relocated from their makeshift base at Clifton Rugby Club, and the players and staff believe it is no coincidence that the team made such huge strides last season, finishing top of the Premiership table for the first time. This season has started with three defeats in their first four games, but the new base is designed to keep them towards the top of the English game in the longer term.
Lam, the director of rugby, left no detail unattended when designing the facility in Abbots Leigh
ROGAN THOMSON/JMP
Upgrading training facilities is on the agenda for a number of clubs. Wasps recently moved to a new facility at Henley-in-Arden, Gloucester are building a base next to Kingsholm and Sale Sharks moved next door from their previous quarters in Carrington to Manchester City’s former training ground. The recent investment into Saracens, meanwhile, came with the intention to build a new training hub. But a new standard has clearly been set by Bristol, who have been a steadily rising force in the Premiership since they were promoted in 2017-18, Lam’s first season, and are now seeking to entrench themselves among the country’s leading clubs.
The first thing that Lam sought to do after he cast eyes on the plans was to change the name. “It was originally down as the Bears’ Training Ground, but I asked Steve Lansdown if we could change it to High Performance Centre,” Lam said. “I’m constantly saying to the guys that this isn’t a normal rugby club, you have to earn the right to be here. We’re all judged on our performance. If I don’t do a good job, I’m gone, so I wanted to make sure we had the facilities to aid high performance. The old place worked fine, but at times we were running through mud, there were lumps and bumps everywhere and we couldn’t train. The two hybrid pitches we’ve got here now are world class, and identical to our home ground at Ashton Gate.
“The changing rooms were originally split into four parts, I said I wanted that to be one big one, like American sports, that’s the hub of the players’ connections. I pushed hard for the barn, too. At the old place, the take-up for extra skills sessions at 7.15am was great when it was sunny, not so great when it wasn’t. It’s much better now we’ve got the barn. The whole facility was geared towards the programme and how we run things, rather than just taking over a building and making it work.”
The squad take advantage of the indoor training barn
Turmeric, giant bean bags and ‘love’ – inside Bristol Bears’ £12m training base
Rugby clubs usually have a fairly standard set of requirements when they look for a new director of rugby: the CV of a hopeful candidate should include a provenwww.thetimes.co.uk
JJpool
Well-known member
Had a look next door to where it might be, play football Blackpool, looked to be in the 30 to 55 per hour range.
Another site said 50 for big pitch so 200 seems a bit steep.
Here's poolfoot prices.
Book a Pitch - Poolfoot Farm
hit the pitch this week TAKE A LOOK at our free slots this week & book a pitch today BOOK A PITCH pitches free for block booking from 1st july 2022 tuesday 8-9pm 5 A SIDE ARENAS: JOHAN CRUYFF ARENA ALLIANZ ARENA Book Now WEDNESDAY 8-9pm 5 A SIDE ARENAS JOHAN CRUYFF ARENA ALLIANZ ARENA … Book a...
www.poolfootfarm.co.uk
Also if the TG is there next to these pitches already, then you already have the 3g pitches in that area.
I dont know the demand but you have to have a lot of pitches booked out multiple times per night most days a year to make serious cash.
Of course with events, bars, restaurant, gym, pool maybe etc you could certainly make money with a supportive fanbase.
The Garstang road location is fine, however it'd make even more if it was somewhere in a real central location like they wanted, but just isn’t possible in Blackpool.
Matesrates
Well-known member
Just buy up all those run down dosser b & bs in cent Blackpool, knock them down and build a special TG and community facility. Two problems solved for the price of one.Had a look next door to where it might be, play football Blackpool, looked to be in the 30 to 55 per hour range.
Another site said 50 for big pitch so 200 seems a bit steep.
Here's poolfoot prices.
Book a Pitch - Poolfoot Farm
hit the pitch this week TAKE A LOOK at our free slots this week & book a pitch today BOOK A PITCH pitches free for block booking from 1st july 2022 tuesday 8-9pm 5 A SIDE ARENAS: JOHAN CRUYFF ARENA ALLIANZ ARENA Book Now WEDNESDAY 8-9pm 5 A SIDE ARENAS JOHAN CRUYFF ARENA ALLIANZ ARENA … Book a...
Also if the TG is there next to these pitches already, then you already have the 3g pitches in that area.
I dont know the demand but you have to have a lot of pitches booked out multiple times per night most days a year to make serious cash.
Of course with events, bars, restaurant, gym, pool maybe etc you could certainly make money with a supportive fanbase.
The Garstang road location is fine, however it'd make even more if it was somewhere in a real central location like they wanted, but just isn’t possible in Blackpool.
LA1 Seasider
Well-known member
By big pitch I mean their 11 a side first team training pitch. Last time I saw it was £10 per player (per team) and that included use of changing rooms and I believe they also provided a ref. So it’s probably £250/300Had a look next door to where it might be, play football Blackpool, looked to be in the 30 to 55 per hour range.
Another site said 50 for big pitch so 200 seems a bit steep.
Here's poolfoot prices.
Book a Pitch - Poolfoot Farm
hit the pitch this week TAKE A LOOK at our free slots this week & book a pitch today BOOK A PITCH pitches free for block booking from 1st july 2022 tuesday 8-9pm 5 A SIDE ARENAS: JOHAN CRUYFF ARENA ALLIANZ ARENA Book Now WEDNESDAY 8-9pm 5 A SIDE ARENAS JOHAN CRUYFF ARENA ALLIANZ ARENA … Book a...
Also if the TG is there next to these pitches already, then you already have the 3g pitches in that area.
I dont know the demand but you have to have a lot of pitches booked out multiple times per night most days a year to make serious cash.
Of course with events, bars, restaurant, gym, pool maybe etc you could certainly make money with a supportive fanbase.
The Garstang road location is fine, however it'd make even more if it was somewhere in a real central location like they wanted, but just isn’t possible in Blackpool.
There’s a lot of money to be made if you can run a good 5aside league. Get the youth teams and pub teams down using the facilities and also attract other sports too.
Tangerine Tractor
Well-known member
TinyTractor does a session run by KFC Fylde there at 7pm on a Friday evening. There are no public users of the facilities, only AFC Fylde junior teams training on the big pitch. There are parents standing watching. There's a bar/coffee area which is empty. Bradleys Sport Bar at the ground is closed.
Tangerine Tractor
Well-known member
People will drive their kids anywhere for football, within reason, if the right activities are available. Poolfoot is usually busy, and it can't just be kids from Thornton.
Wizaard
Well-known member
Land will be dearer in Blackpool than around Burn Naze
LA1 Seasider
Well-known member
I regularly play there on a Tuesday and Wednesday evening and most pitches are full before, during, and afterwards snd the hockey pitch is always in use too. I know covid hit them pretty hard and I’ve never been in any of Fylde’s bars or restaurants but the point is if Fylde can do it in a tiny town like Kirkham and Fleetwood in Thornton then Blackpool could really do well given the huge population difference, the general good feeling and the fact that these facilities aren’t there to financially prop up a vanity project but to exist alongside a well run football club and hopefully break even / pay for itself over time.
BIG_BERTHA_3
Well-known member
One thing for sure there will be more money coming in than there is now ,I can see it being an asset to the community and club as a whole .
LA1 Seasider
Well-known member
The facts are this.
Blackpool desperately need a new training facility.
The club want to bring the first team, the development squad and the academy together. The club also ideally want to aim for a Cat 2 or even Cat 1 academy. The club also want to be positioned relatively centrally within the community so they can serve the community and share facilities too.
In order to do the above a facility at least the same size of Poolfoot (if not bigger) is required. That was built the best part of a decade ago on cheaper land when costs were cheaper too.
We’re a Championship clubs with ambitions of reaching the Premier League again one day. Our owners and board are ambitious. Blackpool and the Fylde and Wyre is our target audience and that’s a much greater population than Fleetwood or Fylde could realistically target (as big as their ambitions may be).
£12 million pounds on a facility seems pretty reasonable and is consistent with what other clubs have and are building. It’s also likely able to make much more money than that at Fylde or Fleetwood based purely on the fact it’s to be built in an area serving a much larger population.
It wouldn’t actually surprise me if £12 million quid was an under estimate. Either way I’m pretty surprised Blackpool fans can’t see the need for such a facility or how such expenditures could possibly be justified.
Oystons really done a number on our fan base ! Small time thinking is rampant.
Blackpool desperately need a new training facility.
The club want to bring the first team, the development squad and the academy together. The club also ideally want to aim for a Cat 2 or even Cat 1 academy. The club also want to be positioned relatively centrally within the community so they can serve the community and share facilities too.
In order to do the above a facility at least the same size of Poolfoot (if not bigger) is required. That was built the best part of a decade ago on cheaper land when costs were cheaper too.
We’re a Championship clubs with ambitions of reaching the Premier League again one day. Our owners and board are ambitious. Blackpool and the Fylde and Wyre is our target audience and that’s a much greater population than Fleetwood or Fylde could realistically target (as big as their ambitions may be).
£12 million pounds on a facility seems pretty reasonable and is consistent with what other clubs have and are building. It’s also likely able to make much more money than that at Fylde or Fleetwood based purely on the fact it’s to be built in an area serving a much larger population.
It wouldn’t actually surprise me if £12 million quid was an under estimate. Either way I’m pretty surprised Blackpool fans can’t see the need for such a facility or how such expenditures could possibly be justified.
Oystons really done a number on our fan base ! Small time thinking is rampant.
carlmb1966
Well-known member
The £1m profit quoted for Pool foot is an interesting number. Not sure where Pool Foot sits within Pilley's empire and accounting structure. It may be that Pool Foot sits outside Fleetwood FC accounting wise, and therefore the income may be derived from Pool Foot charging Fleetwood FC rent to use the facilities. I am not sure what other income generating activities it has.
Maybe someone who has the time to review the accounting structure could tell where Pool foot sits ?
Maybe someone who has the time to review the accounting structure could tell where Pool foot sits ?
JJpool
Well-known member
Not sure Oystons done a number on many, certainly not me.
I'm really looking forward to the announcement.
We've not had someone show belief in the club and the project before.
Just was a little surprised it may cost the amounts mentioned but tbh I hadn't given it much thought.
There is the old argument though of do we invest in this facility or lets imagine we invested in the team, we bought a 3 million quid striker and 3 million midfielder.
That might get us to the prem and then the facility is easily funded even more.
They could go the route of a phased development, if more was to be invested in the side for eg.
Obviously if it's part funded by the council or loans etc that may not be needed.
Shouldn't be long until we find out the plans.
Tangerine Tractor
Well-known member
Or a decent academy and facilities attracts a better quality of player for the club to develop and sell on at a profit.
JJpool
Well-known member
It would be good to see, may take some time to see the fruits.
Investment in the team is more immediate.
Both wouldn't be bad.
I wonder what the timescale is if it's announced in a week or so. How long to build etc.
Seasider1953
Well-known member
I take it you mean AFC Fylde , thought they may have got chicken nuggets at half time
fcblackpool
Well-known member
Good potential will go to the bigger clubs and in one example I know of one Club, not too far away, relocated the player and the family buying them an expensive house which was theirs come what may, just so the player felt settled. So why spend over not to compete?
You can do overkill at our level and as such I'd rather have good facilities and money for the first team and decent facilities (if they have to be different) for juniors. It all hinges on two things for me. One, a player has to see that younger players get first team chances, and two, having a proper academy manager/scout who has good relationships with the bigger clubs and will be able to get the nod on good players being released at the 18,19,20 yo ages- sometimes good players get released because the team is 'full' in that position, not necessarily because they are the worst player.
I don't believe in the 'build a TG that costs mills and they will come' model.
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Insider
Well-known member
There's a holding company, Jaymel Ltd, that is the parent of a small group of companies one being the football club, (Fleetwood Wanderers Ltd), Poolfoot Sports Complex Ltd and Commercial Power Ltd.
In the latest account submitted to 30.06.2020 the group turnover was £13.7m, which was made up of Commercial Power £8.9m, Football Club £4.4m and Poolfoot £0.4m.
The Group made an overall loss of £2.9m.
fcblackpool
Well-known member
I'm assuming that the 400k is in part made up of FT renting the facility? If so, it's not profitable.
If Pilley goes boobies up in court, then poolfoot is just a white elephant....going cheap.
CalderwoodCritchleyWon’t
Well-known member
Absolutely fantastic post. Anyone who isn’t plain stupid, has a lack of ambition or is just a miserable fart can see why this needs to happen.
Insider
Well-known member
I think the £400k must be genuine income otherwise it would disappear in the consolidated accounts. Poolfoot is covered by the small compsnies exemption so you don't get a P&L. I just worked it out!!
fcblackpool
Well-known member
Fairy snuff
BFC_BFC_BFC
Well-known member
There's going to be running costs associated with the facility though, so it's by no means a big money spinner. I mean £400K won't cover the interest on £12M.
Insider
Well-known member
Don't forget though there's probably at least 3 months of covid closedown in those accounts.
LA1 Seasider
Well-known member
A facility is needed regardless. Spending more in the short term to build a facility which can be used by the community guarantees income for the long term which otherwise wouldn’t be coming in.
BFC_BFC_BFC
Well-known member
Yes, but it's hardly the huge money spinner that some are claiming... It just about washes its face....
Tangerine Tractor
Well-known member
We call it KFC Fylde because that's the only thing worth going to Mill Farm for.I take it you mean AFC Fylde , thought they may have got chicken nuggets at half time
BFC_BFC_BFC
Well-known member
You could invest the money in a Hedge Fund and get an income return for the long term and (in that case) it's actually SS's core business and he knows it.
To my mind the training ground requirements ought to be based on the needs of the club from a development perspective.... These ideas about it somehow being a source of revenue seem to lack credibility... And if you are looking for a revenue source, then there are other options with better returns....
When Simon Sadler met the fans at the Fans Forum he spelt out how important the Community Trust and the TG are going forward and I will stand corrected but I think he stated 6/8 million for the TG,
JJpool
Well-known member
So we've gone from potentially 1m a year to 400k, is that poolfoot charging Fleetwood town rent?
Obviously we're a much bigger club than Fleetwood and can earn more from the fanbase and also player development, plus we need the facility.
We need to see the details from the club and that'll tell us their ambitions and give us an idea of what they think they can achieve.
Obviously we're a much bigger club than Fleetwood and can earn more from the fanbase and also player development, plus we need the facility.
We need to see the details from the club and that'll tell us their ambitions and give us an idea of what they think they can achieve.
Insider
Well-known member
I'm sure the plan for the training ground wasn't as a Revenue source from pitch fees etc. that's just a welcome bonus.
Seaside Aggro
Well-known member
The Burnley one cost around 10 million and was state of the art when built. I’ve been around it a couple of times and it is impressive. They had the luxury of already having the land.