New variant in South Africa

Let me just add a bit of info about masks to the mix and the theatre of it....


'Standard face coverings are just "comfort blankets" that do little to reduce the spread of Covid particles, a scientist has said.

Dr Colin Axon, who has advised the government on minimising the risk of cross-infection in supermarkets, accused medics of presenting a "cartoonish" view of how how tiny particles travel through the air.
He warned some cloth masks have gaps which are invisible to the naked eye, but are 5,000 times the size of viral Covid particles.
"The small sizes are not easily understood but an imperfect analogy would be to imagine marbles fired at builders' scaffolding, some might hit a pole and rebound, but obviously most will fly through," he told The Telegraph.

Dr Axon said the public need to be offered a wider view of the science behind face masks, rather than the "partial view" of information being pushed by medics over their effectiveness.

"Medics have this cartoonised view of how particles move through the air - it's not their fault, it's not their domain - they've got a cartoonish view of how the world is," he said.
"Once a particle is not on a biological surface it is no longer a biomedical issue, it is simply about physics. The public has only a partial view of the story if information only comes from one type of source. Medics have some of the answers but not a whole view."
Dr Axon, Brunel University's senior lecturer in engineering, said that the true mechanisms involved are best evaluated through science.
"When the particle enters another body it returns to a biomedical issue but the mask debate is about the particle journey," he said.
"Masks can catch droplets and sputum from a cough but what is important is that SARS CoV-2 is predominantly distributed by tiny aerosols."


Dr Axon said that medics were "unable to comprehend" the miniscule elements at play, adding: "A Covid viral particle is around 100 nanometres, material gaps in blue surgical masks are up to 1,000 times that size, cloth mask gaps can be 5,000 times the size."


So masks are largely theatre to make people feel safe and so the government can be seen to be doing something.

I think this bloke is talking bollox. I’m not sure why you believe him to be honest.

If face masks don’t work why do doctors and nurses where face masks 😷 in hospital and the operating theatre then?
 
“Dr Angelique Coetzee – who is also board chairperson of the SA Medical Association (SAMA) and in a private practice in Pretoria – said, although the situation might change, the symptoms had not been serious so far.

"This is not only my own account. I consulted with other doctors in Atteridgeville, Midrand and so on, and they're seeing exactly what I am seeing. The symptoms are mild, and that's the most important message,"

Adding that things "might change", Coetzee said for now there seemed to be no serious symptoms being presented by patients.

She added

“We are not even admitting them, they're at home and they get better within two to three days after we have seen them. Nothing spectacular at this stage, and there really is no need to panic.”

So don’t panic yet.

Can someone let Boris know 🙄
 
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SA seems to be a right breeding ground for these new variants... Have they actually got a proper health system over there to try and get the situation under control??? What's the situation with vaccination etc..?
 
“Dr Angelique Coetzee – who is also board chairperson of the SA Medical Association (SAMA) and in a private practice in Pretoria – said, although the situation might change, the symptoms had not been serious so far.

"This is not only my own account. I consulted with other doctors in Atteridgeville, Midrand and so on, and they're seeing exactly what I am seeing. The symptoms are mild, and that's the most important message,"

Adding that things "might change", Coetzee said for now there seemed to be no serious symptoms being presented by patients.

She added

“We are not even admitting them, they're at home and they get better within two to three days after we have seen them. Nothing spectacular at this stage, and there really is no need to panic.”

So don’t panic yet.

Can someone let Boris know 🙄
The theory is that we have a much older population, but yes, I’ll let him know, oh, and all the other countries banning South Africana.
 
Herts

I refer you to my response to South Shore (above).

I was generalising but if you wan't a specific name, I will give you Susan Michie - thanks Kebab.

I am of the opinion that there are far too many people who are perfectly happy to sit at home and get paid - be it 80% or their full whack if they are lucky enough.

I am not stating anybody specifically on here and getting personal but in my opinion there are plenty - both in and out of AVFTT world - that don't want to move on.

If I am wrong, I am wrong but I don't think I'm on my own in holding such an opinion ?

Michie is one of the Indie Sage lot, a member of the Communist party for 40 years, and will say the government is wrong no matter what they do.

I think this is the wider problem, too many in the media are using Covid to try to score political points against the government, essentially refighting the Brexit battle by proxy.
  • If the government locks down experts will be found to say it's not needed, if they don't lock down then other experts will be found to say the opposite;
  • if the government mandates masks experts will say they don't work, if masks are optional then the message will instead be that masks are vital;
  • if the government imposes border restrictions the stories will be about the damage to the airline industry, if borders are open the story is about new variants;
and so on about any possible issue. The media have essentially gone out of their way to sow as much confusion about as many issues as possible and I think they've done a great deal of damage as a result.
 
I think this bloke is talking bollox. I’m not sure why you believe him to be honest.

If face masks don’t work why do doctors and nurses where face masks 😷 in hospital and the operating theatre then?
Masks work for droplets, coughs sneezes etc which is initially how it was thought to be spread as thats how colds etc largely spread.

It's now widely understood, as those radio etc adverts keep telling us that it lingers in the air like smoke. Tiny particles.

So if the particles are way smaller than the holes in masks what can't you understand?

Not to mention evwn more importantly the holes around the mask between the face, nose etc, a cm here a mm there are huge gaps for this, the breath just takes the path of least resistance. Probably half who wear them wrong isn't worth wearing and those who do so correctly still have those gaps. I get the best face coverage from by bfc mask rather than a medical one which has many gaps at the sides, but the bfc is double cloth. Largely useless probably.

It's probably a tiny benefit from wearing them, which then promotes a false sense of security, causes issues with breathing, communication, people with hearing issues.

We're also meant to be living with this its not going to go away it'll keep mutating but should still remain largely covid so we may catch it as the spike protein changes but the immunity from serious disease should remain.
 
SA seems to be a right breeding ground for these new variants... Have they actually got a proper health system over there to try and get the situation under control??? What's the situation with vaccination etc..?

It seems that SA are doing a lot more genetic sequencing than most, so they tend to find the new variants when they emerge, something that other countries aren't doing.
 
Apparently people with this variant do not lose sense of smell. Sometimes these mutations weaken the virus, so maybe too early to panic
Looks like other countries are panicking, Netherlands closing hospitality at 17.00 for the next three weeks. I bet that’ll go down a bomb with restaurants which had Christmas bookings.
 
The previous lockdowns were a nightmare for kids. The better schools made an effort to actually remote teach and provide a structured day.

Unfortunately a significant number of schools didn’t. My friend was sat at home for most of the lockdown- she’s a primary school teacher and basically did no teaching for weeks on end and then was asked to go in one day a week to cover the frontline worker kids that were at the school.
She was paid full salary throughout though so she loved lockdown 👍
 

Covid has made people re-evaluate existing virus spread and its likely they spread via aerosols too.

'The authors conclude that most of the respiratory viruses, including SARS-CoV-2, spread via aerosols at both short and long ranges.'

Talking, breathing, coughing, and sneezing can all produce aerosols, but because talking and breathing are regular, these activities transfer more of the virus than more occasional coughing and sneezing.

Aerosols carry more of the virus and can penetrate deeper into the lung tissue than droplets, which are too large to reach the lower respiratory tract.'
 
Complete omnishambles, i see it affects people in shops and on public transport but not pubs restaurants and the work place. Fuck off.
When does this mask rule start as currently on a pretty full train been around a few shops and hardly mask in sight.
I think rightly so people are completely fucked off with the shambles.

I'm off to the pub without a poxy mask.
 
Masks work for droplets, coughs sneezes etc which is initially how it was thought to be spread as thats how colds etc largely spread.

It's now widely understood, as those radio etc adverts keep telling us that it lingers in the air like smoke. Tiny particles.

So if the particles are way smaller than the holes in masks what can't you understand?

Not to mention evwn more importantly the holes around the mask between the face, nose etc, a cm here a mm there are huge gaps for this, the breath just takes the path of least resistance. Probably half who wear them wrong isn't worth wearing and those who do so correctly still have those gaps. I get the best face coverage from by bfc mask rather than a medical one which has many gaps at the sides, but the bfc is double cloth. Largely useless probably.

It's probably a tiny benefit from wearing them, which then promotes a false sense of security, causes issues with breathing, communication, people with hearing issues.

We're also meant to be living with this its not going to go away it'll keep mutating but should still remain largely covid so we may catch it as the spike protein changes but the immunity from serious disease should remain.

Ok if that’s what you think but you didn’t explain the doctors and nurses wearing masks?
 
I’m in the pub now without a 😷. A couple just left and put their masks on to walk out of the pub and then took them off as soon as they got outside. What’s that all about?
 
Ok if that’s what you think but you didn’t explain the doctors and nurses wearing masks?
They only started wearing masks at the beginning of pandemic the majority didn't wear them before only in surgery and if someone is contagious for example then they wear PPE and a Fit Mask not the crap bit of paper.

It's all for show as my wife tells me in Hospital they don't work unless a proper one is used.
 
And here we go again with all the moaning and querying every decision.

Maybe they have allowed no masks in the pubs and restaurants so that people can have a choice of whether they go or not. Shopping and public transport is a necessity for lots of elderly and vulnerable people so if a mask helps just a little bit then we should do all we can to protect them.

Small measures coming in that may help us to avoid a future lockdown all whilst it gives the scientists more time to assess the threat of this new strain.
 
Tbh, when we had to wear a mask to go into a pub, that was it, 10 feet wearing a mask, sit down, take it off.

It would make sense if staff, especially in restaurants wore masks, after all , they’re stood over you, either while you’re ordering, placing your food, or clearing the table.
 
SA seems to be a right breeding ground for these new variants... Have they actually got a proper health system over there to try and get the situation under control??? What's the situation with vaccination etc..?
Many of the variants seem to eminate from countries where the AZ vaccine originally got tested. Perhaps the virus was forced to mutate in order to survive in the face of the vaccine protection?

Anyway it is good news so far with this latest strain in that the affects so far appear to only be tiredness and headaches. If it ends up being the easiest to spread whilst having the weakest affect, then it might turn out to be what the world needs.
 
Many of the variants seem to eminate from countries where the AZ vaccine originally got tested. Perhaps the virus was forced to mutate in order to survive in the face of the vaccine protection?

Anyway it is good news so far with this latest strain in that the affects so far appear to only be tiredness and headaches. If it ends up being the easiest to spread whilst having the weakest affect, then it might turn out to be what the world needs.
Yes hoping if effects are mild it becomes the predominant strain throughout the world, then we can all move on.
Apparently no hospitalised victims of this strain.
 
Many of the variants seem to eminate from countries where the AZ vaccine originally got tested. Perhaps the virus was forced to mutate in order to survive in the face of the vaccine protection?

You're really scraping the bottom of the barrel with that comment, and of course AZ wasn't the only vaccine being tested in those countries.

Most likely, to the extent that there may be any value in your observation whatsoever, the trials took place in those countries because they have reasonably well developed health systems, something that would also indicate the ability to carry out the sort of gene sequencing that allows them to detect new variants.
 
Yes hoping if effects are mild it becomes the predominant strain throughout the world, then we can all move on.
Apparently no hospitalised victims of this strain.

Problem: the median age in SA is 27, in the UK it is 40, we don't know the age profile of the patients seen in SA, but we do know that the virus is most dangerous to older people so we don't know what effect it'll have on a more vulnerable population.

Fundamentally, we know very little about this new variant at this stage, so to describe it as "good news", "mild" or "weak" is dangerously misguided.
 
Problem: the median age in SA is 27, in the UK it is 40, we don't know the age profile of the patients seen in SA, but we do know that the virus is most dangerous to older people so we don't know what effect it'll have on a more vulnerable population.

Fundamentally, we know very little about this new variant at this stage, so to describe it as "good news", "mild" or "weak" is dangerously misguided.
Or positively optimistic, viruses have always diminished with time if they got worse we would have died out years ago, and we haven't so this is probably good news.
 
Or positively optimistic, viruses have always diminished with time if they got worse we would have died out years ago, and we haven't so this is probably good news.

So the strains we had in March last year don't have names, they're just numbered, but Alpha came along towards the end of last year and was twice as infectious as the legacy strains and quickly replaced them, then Delta came along and was twice as infectious again and quickly replaced Alpha.

I am not aware of any evidence that Delta is any less deadly than the original strains, so my question is why do you think this new strain might be different?
 
So the strains we had in March last year don't have names, they're just numbered, but Alpha came along towards the end of last year and was twice as infectious as the legacy strains and quickly replaced them, then Delta came along and was twice as infectious again and quickly replaced Alpha.

I am not aware of any evidence that Delta is any less deadly than the original strains, so my question is why do you think this new strain might be different?
I often wonder quite how these strains keep getting more and more infectious TBH....

I mean eventually if this continues we're going to have a strain of Covid that can travel (on it's own) by plane from South Africa into Hethrow, ride a penny farthing (none handed) from London to Manchester, jump off the bike, complete a triple salchow, squeeze through your letter box, fly up your arsehole and infect you.
 
I hope the UK are just erring on the side off caution and we can lift restrictions in a few weeks…as an aside I assume this will help push along the booster uptake……

The UK shutting down of all flights to Southern Africa overnight has destroyed the upcoming tourist season for Christmas plus Jan/Feb etc.

After hard lockdowns over the last year or so this was definitely not needed for the tourist industry.

Boris and his clowns are not following the science at all. The variant has been in the UK and Europe since the 11th November at least. It didn’t just turn up on Thursday night 🙄

Edit: it didn’t just turn up on Thursday riding Bfcx3’s bike 🚲
 
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So the strains we had in March last year don't have names, they're just numbered, but Alpha came along towards the end of last year and was twice as infectious as the legacy strains and quickly replaced them, then Delta came along and was twice as infectious again and quickly replaced Alpha.

I am not aware of any evidence that Delta is any less deadly than the original strains, so my question is why do you think this new strain might be different?
Because eventually viruses run out of steam or humans would've died out years ago, unless this one is different in which case we are probably doomed.
Personally I am going to crack on as normal as far as the authorities will allow, or I can get away with.
I see very few people out and about in shops, pubs, football stadiums that look like they are living in fear that tells me all i need to know.
Eventually something will carry me, you and everyone else away from this life and if it is something that sounds like a villan from an episode of Dr Who so be it, I feel much of the panic, control, interference and for some stress has gone on too long now.
 
The UK shutting down of all flights to Southern Africa overnight has destroyed the upcoming tourist season for Christmas plus Jan/Feb etc.

After hard lockdowns over the last year or so this was definitely not needed for the tourist industry.

Boris and his clowns are not following the science at all. The variant has been in the UK and Europe since the 11th November at least. It didn’t just turn up on Thursday night 🙄

Edit: it didn’t just turn up on Thursday riding Bfcx3’s bike 🚲
I was hoping to use the Bike ( hope it’s a Tandem) to zoom across to Sharm 2nd week in January with my good lady….if not..it’s tyre’s are getting popped…..
 
Because eventually viruses run out of steam or humans would've died out years ago, unless this one is different in which case we are probably doomed.

Not true: https://theconversation.com/will-coronavirus-really-evolve-to-become-less-deadly-153817

The trade-off model is now widely accepted. It emphasises that each host-pathogen combination must be considered individually. There is no general evolutionary law for predicting how these relationships will pan out, and certainly no justification for evoking the inevitability of decreased virulence.


And to repeat, why is Delta no less virulent than earlier strains, and why do you think this new strain would be any different?
 
Not true: https://theconversation.com/will-coronavirus-really-evolve-to-become-less-deadly-153817

The trade-off model is now widely accepted. It emphasises that each host-pathogen combination must be considered individually. There is no general evolutionary law for predicting how these relationships will pan out, and certainly no justification for evoking the inevitability of decreased virulence.


And to repeat, why is Delta no less virulent than earlier strains, and why do you think this new strain would be any different?
I'm being optimistic and forming my opinion on the basis that we aren't extinct, if I'm wrong and a virus can keep changing into more deadly forms then so be it, you have been proved right and the human race could be in serious trouble. Can't say that day to day living makes me feel that great danger is all around us but I do get things wrong from time to time.
 
Many of the variants seem to eminate from countries where the AZ vaccine originally got tested. Perhaps the virus was forced to mutate in order to survive in the face of the vaccine protection?

Anyway it is good news so far with this latest strain in that the affects so far appear to only be tiredness and headaches. If it ends up being the easiest to spread whilst having the weakest affect, then it might turn out to be what the world needs.
If the symptoms are tiredness and a headache how will I know if my wife actually has it or not???
 
I'm being optimistic and forming my opinion on the basis that we aren't extinct, if I'm wrong and a virus can keep changing into more deadly forms then so be it, you have been proved right and the human race could be in serious trouble. Can't say that day to day living makes me feel that great danger is all around us but I do get things wrong from time to time.

I'm just following the evidence.

In the long run it's not in a virus's interest to wipe us all out, but the idea that this new version is somehow weaker is wild speculation at best.
 
I'm just following the evidence.

In the long run it's not in a virus's interest to wipe us all out, but the idea that this new version is somehow weaker is wild speculation at best.
Well it's not wild speculation, wild speculation would be to suggest this new strain makes your ears drop off.

It's taking a punt using evidence from previous pandemics, specifically Spanish Flu, which is the closest historical example, that's still about, now just another strain of flu, still potentially nasty but not likely to kill you within 48 hours anymore.

But it's still a guess.
 
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Apparently South Africa have some of the top scientists and virologist checking for COVID variations on an ongoing basis. This is why they have identified this strain.

For the last few months South Africa have had 200 to 300 infections per day while the UK has 42,000 per day for months.

Boris’s scientists haven’t been looking for any variations or ……maybe they have and they kept it quiet 🤫
I doubt SA has only had 200 to 300 infections per day! They don’t test like we do! It’ll be all over the townships poor buggers!
 
Well it's not wild speculation, wild speculation would be to suggest this new strain makes your ears drop off.

It's taking a punt using evidence from previous pandemics, specifically Spanish Flu, which is the closest historical example, that's still about, now just another strain of flu.

But it's still a guess.
Hell, if you’re ears dropped off and you need glasses, you’d be f@cked
 
I doubt SA has only had 200 to 300 infections per day! They don’t test like we do! It’ll be all over the townships poor buggers!
It's probably been doing the rounds for a while now, has SA had an increase in hospitalisation? I've no idea...

Good on the SA authorities for the reporting and sharing of info though.
 
I'm guessing, but I don't think this new strain is going to be as dangerous as previous, just based on 'How Viruses Work 101'.

I'm not on SAGE or owt like...
Maybe you should tell the media that...wild excitement at a new strain across all news outlets.
 
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