No thread on underprivileged white boys.

Giro said:
On this occasion, Curryman. You have brought race into the conversation, with the totally unnecessary comment, White Lives Matter.
I never thought I’d hear you using the “woke” word.😱
Click to expand...
I’m a bit confused, so black lives matter is ok, but white lives matter is racist.
 
Curryman said:
Read the bloody papers, listen to the news, I have not brought race into this, it is an official report that has been released and is being openly discussed on radio and television. Wake up from your woke opinions, if it doesn't suit your agenda then just say nothing. Unbelievable.

I was looking for opinions from our teachers on here, not people up their own arseholes.
Click to expand...
Having seen your last sentence, Wilf, I guess you want me to say something.
“Black lives matter”...... we’ll all say it: every life matters.
“Underprivileged white children”. Yes they do underperform! And in my humble opinion, the answer is well publicised: Show me a bad student and I’ll show you a bad parent.
Religious divisions are as prevalent and probably more complex when you think they should be the most tolerant and “eyes open” of divisive groups.

I could go on forever. I made my humble effort for near 40 years. At worst, I suppose, 5 of my students went on to be jailed “At her majesty’s pleasure“ ie they will never be released. (Murder) Didn’t do much of a good job with them, did I? On the other hand, 6 of my students did go on to play RL for GB.

My extended family includes both Asian and West Indian heritage, as do my friends. All I can say is treat people as you would wish to be treated by them.

As for the “Woke” brigade, are they trying to prove their tolerance or dodge guilt trips from history before they are accused? Take my advice. Do as the previous para. You’ll be fine and anyone with issues will deem you as decent.

Sorry if this is not as you might hope, Wilf but it’s how I see it. I’m expecting flak. Can’t please all the people all of..........
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kip
Memphisboy said:
I don’t really get the problem here as GCSEs are incredibly easy and A levels are easily achievable with a modicum of revision. Therefore doesn’t really matter what the state education is like, absolutely crap by the way but that’s another debate, as you’ll be 18 by the time you’ve finished your A levels and able to think for yourself. It’s also pretty impossible not to get into a university if you want to, 3 Ds will do it, so there’s no excuses. Not like my day when barriers were put in your path if you wanted to carry on in education nowadays you’re wet nursed from day one.
Click to expand...
C'mon Memphis I was there

No £9K a year debt
Grant's not loans and I got help with some rent through housing benefit


Not mentioning subsidised halls of residence nowadays £450 a month on 12 month contract
Subsidised bars etcetc

Hard times ???
No a great 3 years off my but half the time
Had to work a few weeks in the summer in Blackpool as well
 
A simplistic take.

Non white students are more culturally aware of the barriers that face them and the need to overcome them. That's arguably a question of background/family etc and also, wider society has improved in acknowledging those factors.

White working class students face barriers but society overlooks those barriers. It doesn't discuss them.

Why? Because the answers require reflection on the structure of society that run deeper than an 'awareness raising session' and are uncomfortable. That runs far deeper than teachers and schools.
 
Curryman said:
Read the bloody papers, listen to the news, I have not brought race into this, it is an official report that has been released and is being openly discussed on radio and television. Wake up from your woke opinions, if it doesn't suit your agenda then just say nothing. Unbelievable.

I was looking for opinions from our teachers on here, not people up their own arseholes.
Click to expand...
Haha an official report. When did the tories give a toss about white working class? Is this part of the culture war that is fuelling people like you to lap it up in spades?
 
Curryman said:
Thank you to those who have added to the debate and not gone for the jugular on race. I'm particularly interested in the comments of the teachers, past and present and their take on the subject.

I had a couple of pubs in Bradford on the 1980,s one of which was next to two large estates. There were some nice people who lived on both but also a greater number of older whites who had lost their jobs and due to poor education were now receivers of benefits. Crime in the area was high, and the kids who were being brought up in these conditions mimicked their elders, which finished up with the school next door being gutted by fire after one of the kids from such a family set it ablaze. I said at the time, what future do these kids have to look forward to.

The situation has not been resolved by successive governments and unless something is done quickly I believe the situation will deteriorate even further.

Unfortunately there is now a white underclass as well as young Asian youths forming gangs, which if not tackled will end up in more trouble between the communities.

I have two grandchildren of mixed race, who I love dearly, and both are doing well at school, but do have occasional problems with bullying from both whites and Asians. Fortunately they just walk away, as they have been told to do.

Action is needed now, to prevent another explosion of riots due to those affected being envious or are pure hateful of their opposites.

So, for your information that is how I see things.
Click to expand...
The white underclass are now voting tory. That says a lot about the state of affairs, the tories have morphed into ukip/national front. That's the scary part for me.
 
Bloodtangerine said:
Good chase Curryman, wish I’d seen the potential 👍🏏
Click to expand...
Blood, run chase was the last thing on my mind. I came on expecting to see a discussion about the report. But there wasn't one. So after a shaky start, I feel we got there and there have been some great contributions from all sides of the political spectrum. Thank you all.
 
Stony Hill said:
Having seen your last sentence, Wilf, I guess you want me to say something.
“Black lives matter”...... we’ll all say it: every life matters.
“Underprivileged white children”. Yes they do underperform! And in my humble opinion, the answer is well publicised: Show me a bad student and I’ll show you a bad parent.
Religious divisions are as prevalent and probably more complex when you think they should be the most tolerant and “eyes open” of divisive groups.

I could go on forever. I made my humble effort for near 40 years. At worst, I suppose, 5 of my students went on to be jailed “At her majesty’s pleasure“ ie they will never be released. (Murder) Didn’t do much of a good job with them, did I? On the other hand, 6 of my students did go on to play RL for GB.

My extended family includes both Asian and West Indian heritage, as do my friends. All I can say is treat people as you would wish to be treated by them.

As for the “Woke” brigade, are they trying to prove their tolerance or dodge guilt trips from history before they are accused? Take my advice. Do as the previous para. You’ll be fine and anyone with issues will deem you as decent.

Sorry if this is not as you might hope, Wilf but it’s how I see it. I’m expecting flak. Can’t please all the people all of..........
Click to expand...
Seems reasonable.
 
td53 said:
A simplistic take.

Non white students are more culturally aware of the barriers that face them and the need to overcome them. That's arguably a question of background/family etc and also, wider society has improved in acknowledging those factors.

White working class students face barriers but society overlooks those barriers. It doesn't discuss them.

Why? Because the answers require reflection on the structure of society that run deeper than an 'awareness raising session' and are uncomfortable. That runs far deeper than teachers and schools.
Click to expand...

My simplistic take would be that ...

Non- White Students / Families (to different degrees) place a much greater emphasis on education and seem to value academic achievement. Using my own finger in the air, I'd say that Asians in particular seem to place a high value on education. Combine that with what is possibly a much more cohesive 'community' where family values exist / persist, despite issues with poverty and it's not hard to see why they out-perform their white counterparts.

By comparison, I think that White British kids and families do not really value education and see academic achievement as something to sneer at and certainly something that isn't particularly cool. I think to that extent it's easy for kids from a range of economic backgrounds to get dragged down and pefroem at a lower level as a result.

Of course, I also think that there are much wider issues to do with education that might go some way to addressing these issues.... Let's face it... It's 2021 and our education system probably still marginalises huge numbers of kids, many of whom will have much potential (just not academic) should the system seek to focus on developing talent (whatever it may be).'
 
There is also another separate debate to be had about how intelligence seems to be valued very highly indeed but it is only one of many qualities that people may have. What about the person who isn’t highly intelligent but is...

Kind
Courageous
Caring
Loyal
Selfless
Empathetic
Creative

etc etc.

All great qualities that one could argue are much more valuable than just “intelligence”......Chairman Mao was probably “intelligent”
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
My simplistic take would be that ...

Non- White Students / Families (to different degrees) place a much greater emphasis on education and seem to value academic achievement. Using my own finger in the air, I'd say that Asians in particular seem to place a high value on education. Combine that with what is possibly a much more cohesive 'community' where family values exist / persist, despite issues with poverty and it's not hard to see why they out-perform their white counterparts.

By comparison, I think that White British kids and families do not really value education and see academic achievement as something to sneer at and certainly something that isn't particularly cool. I think to that extent it's easy for kids from a range of economic backgrounds to get dragged down and pefroem at a lower level as a result.

Of course, I also think that there are much wider issues to do with education that might go some way to addressing these issues.... Let's face it... It's 2021 and our education system probably still marginalises huge numbers of kids, many of whom will have much potential (just not academic) should the system seek to focus on developing talent (whatever it may be).'
Click to expand...
A different question is what is “education” for?

Is it all about giving you the skills to acquire a vocation/job? Obviously very, very important. Not just so that you can “contribute” (whatever that is). But also so that you can acquire some self worth; raise a family; and maybe find a purpose to your life.

But is it only about acquiring the skills so you are employable? And can work “productively”? Or is it something more?

As I get older I realise more and more how many closed rooms there are for me. I know fcuk all about art, poetry and, say, classical music. I know even less about electrical engineering or bricklaying. But when I look back our fathers and mothers were forever going to adult education lessons in the evening. My father and father in law were both great painters (pictures not houses) and my mum learnt sign language.

They had a hunger to learn. How many of us can say that now? Something seems to have been lost.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
A different question is what is “education” for?

Is it all about giving you the skills to acquire a vocation/job? Obviously very, very important. Not just so that you can “contribute” (whatever that is). But also so that you can acquire some self worth; raise a family; and maybe find a purpose to your life.

But is it only about acquiring the skills so you are employable? And can work “productively”? Or is it something more?

As I get older I realise more and more how many closed rooms there are for me. I know fcuk all about art, poetry and, say, classical music. I know even less about electrical engineering or bricklaying. But when I look back our fathers and mothers were forever going to adult education lessons in the evening. My father and father in law were both great painters (pictures not houses) and my mum learnt sign language.

They had a hunger to learn. How many of us can say that now? Something seems to have been lost.
Click to expand...
It's a good question Mex and I think it's for different things to different people really... Of course, I think developing the ability to 'contribute' and therefoire aquire a sense of self-worth is important. I'd also say that the ability to develop the ability to think critically is also important in order to enable an indiviual to develop a sense of who they are, what they stand for and why etc..

I agree that some people may have lost the hunger to learn, but I also wonder whether our education system is particularly engaging in terms of the way we learn... Particularly at 'Secondary School' level... I mean kids have a whole load of shit going on at that age and 'education' is maybe not quite as sexy as certain other pursuits?
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
It's a good question Mex and I think it's for different things to different people really... Of course, I think developing the ability to 'contribute' and therefoire aquire a sense of self-worth is important. I'd also say that the ability to develop the ability to think critically is also important in order to enable an indiviual to develop a sense of who they are, what they stand for and why etc..

I agree that some people may have lost the hunger to learn, but I also wonder whether our education system is particularly engaging in terms of the way we learn... Particularly at 'Secondary School' level... I mean kids have a whole load of shit going on at that age and 'education' is maybe not quite as sexy as certain other pursuits?
Click to expand...
Yes to the last couple of sentences. Which is why so many people took to adult education like ducks to water. I may be wrong but I can’t see the same hunger “for education”. Nor, to be fair, the same opportunities in terms of classes or free time. Maybe when jobs were more “9 to 5” than they are now and there weren’t 2000 channels on TV, people were more open to further education?
 
Mexboroseasider said:
Yes to the last couple of sentences. Which is why so many people took to adult education like ducks to water. I may be wrong but I can’t see the same hunger “for education”. Nor, to be fair, the same opportunities in terms of classes or free time. Maybe when jobs were more “9 to 5” than they are now and there weren’t 2000 channels on TV, people were more open to further education?
Click to expand...
If you mean more mature people, then I suspect they satisfy their quest for learning in different ways perhaps.... I mean the internet has opened up a whole new world in that respect and it's possible to seriously fast track your learning and development in that respect...
 
Mexboroseasider said:
A different question is what is “education” for?

Is it all about giving you the skills to acquire a vocation/job? Obviously very, very important. Not just so that you can “contribute” (whatever that is). But also so that you can acquire some self worth; raise a family; and maybe find a purpose to your life.

But is it only about acquiring the skills so you are employable? And can work “productively”? Or is it something more?

As I get older I realise more and more how many closed rooms there are for me. I know fcuk all about art, poetry and, say, classical music. I know even less about electrical engineering or bricklaying. But when I look back our fathers and mothers were forever going to adult education lessons in the evening. My father and father in law were both great painters (pictures not houses) and my mum learnt sign language.

They had a hunger to learn. How many of us can say that now? Something seems to have been lost.
Click to expand...
I think that decline might have started when Community Colleges had to start charging for courses and must be certificated. The college I worked at used to have a good selection of free and cheap courses aimed at the community. Even opened the canteen on a Saturday morning so that the elderly had access to a cheap meal and social dance group. Sadly, those days are now gone.
 
Wizaard said:
Utter, utter shite. The students today work far harder than I ever did. I swanned about for 7 years through O and A levels and still got through.

Today's kids have to put the effort in to get the grades they do.
Click to expand...
OK, Wiz explain this...................I studied horticulture after I was made redundant, irrespective of my academic ability I had to begin at Level 1, no choice, I was fortunate enough to progress far enough to be offered a job as a technician at the college.. Just as an example I will describe the plant ID procedure. We studied a set of plants for a couple of weeks, we then had to ID them as part of the qualification. This involved a portion of the plant be it a leaf, a twig or a flower placed on a table. This deteriorated to ID'ing the plant in situ with the numbers swapped around to eventually leaving the numbers the same as the study (because students were complaining it was too hard) to allowing the student to use a mobile with a photo and name of the plant to be ID'd. A pre-requisite for a higher level was dropped and was instead based on a perceived academic level and believe me some special needs students produced better practical work than those who jumped straight in at level 3. And that's not to mention the cut and paste they were allowed to get away with. This was over a period of about 30 years, so Wiz, do not tell me I'm talking utter shite, I've seen it happen. Obviously, I can only speak from my own experience, but I heard the same kind of complaints from other departments. Targets and league tables and budget control I believe, are partly to blame. I retired eight years ago so things may have improved since then, I doubt it though.
 
Last edited:
EagleDay said:
OK, Wiz explain this...................I studied horticulture after I was made redundant, irrespective of my academic ability I had to begin at Level 1, no choice, I was fortunate enough to progress far enough to be offered a job as a technician at the college.. Just as an example I will describe the plant ID procedure. We studied a set of plants for a couple of weeks, we then had to ID them as part of the qualification. This involved a portion of the plant be it a leaf, a twig or a flower placed on a table. This deteriorated to ID'ing the plant in situ with the numbers swapped around to eventually leaving the numbers the same as the study (because students were complaining it was too hard) to allowing the student to use a mobile with a photo and name of the plant to be ID'd. A pre-requisite for a higher level was dropped and was instead based on a perceived academic level and believe me some special needs students produced better practical work than those who jumped straight in at level 3. And that's not to mention the cut and paste they were allowed to get away with. This was over a period of about 30 years, so Wiz, do not tell me I'm talking utter shite, I've seen it happen. Obviously, I can only speak from my own experience, but I heard the same kind of complaints from other departments. Targets and league tables and budget control I believe, are partly to blame. I retired eight years ago so things may have improved since then, I doubt it though.
Click to expand...
Forgive me for saying but that's a niche aspect of the educational process that doesn't ring true with anything I'm seeing right now in my house with my 18 year old daughter and her friends, or my older teacher daughter and what she puts in.
 
Wizaard said:
Forgive me for saying but that's a niche aspect of the educational process that doesn't ring true with anything I'm seeing right now in my house with my 18 year old daughter and her friends, or my older teacher daughter and what she puts in.
Click to expand...
Believe it or believe it not, Wiz, that's your prerogative. But I'm not really taking a hit at the younger students, just the system that was applied at the college I worked at, many things were wrong. I've no idea about other organisations.
 
EagleDay said:
Believe it or believe it not, Wiz, that's your prerogative. But I'm not really taking a hit at the younger students, just the system that was applied at the college I worked at, many things were wrong. I've no idea about other organisations.
Click to expand...
I'm talking about literally millions of students who are categorised as being given qualifications they don't deserve by people who have literally no idea of what they do. It's prejudice of the worst kind.
 
So let's just say....Those that did......Horticulture 🙄 got away with being thick and were given the answers.....
What's the worst that could happen...you get your Ageratum houstonianum mixed up with your Philodendrons
But what about the other 1,659 education courses available in the UK......any idea......?........Network management....Hotel Management.....Maths..?

At lest I know who to ask when my Begonias look a bit wilted.....or what compost to use on my Rhododendrons......
 
B_Side_The_C_Side said:
So let's just say....Those that did......Horticulture 🙄 got away with being thick and were given the answers.....
What's the worst that could happen...you get your Ageratum houstonianum mixed up with your Philodendrons
But what about the other 1,659 education courses available in the UK......any idea......?........Network management....Hotel Management.....Maths..?

At lest I know who to ask when my Begonias look a bit wilted.....or what compost to use on my Rhododendrons......
Click to expand...
Who said they were thick? And would you want somebody who was not properly qualified to look after the turf at Bloomers or on your local golf course?
 
Curryman said:
Do White boys not garner the same interest as Black, Asian or Chinese boys?

The report about the disadvantage at school of this group is not before time by the look of it, and I was expecting to see a thread on here, but no. Come on people WLM (White Lads Matter).
Click to expand...

I consider myself an underprivileged white boy, but I can tell you it’s a completely different kettle of fish from being BAME. I’ve had to earn everything myself, in a foreign country, but I can at least pretend to be privileged and it gets me jobs that Moroccans etc. simply cannot get here in Holland
 
Thegoalmachine said:
Ignore Giro he is just a troll☹️ People read into things what they want . The likes of giro and that hospital toilet cleaner will have seen the headline this morning and hastily skipped past it cos it is not what they want to hear as it does not fit their left wing agenda.
Click to expand...
Who's the 'hospital toilet cleaner'?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top