Now hear me out...

BobHatton

BobHatton

Well-known member
I'm just putting this out there..

I've followed the mighty for over 50 years now; thick and thin, ups and downs. The Oyston period was a few chapters in our history that I'd rather forget about. I loved the Allan Brown days and the Billy Ayre days and grew up watching Green, Suddick, Walsh, Hatton et al. So, what's gone wrong? What's my gripe?
Is NC the right man for the job? Are the bunch of players the right ones? The right mix? I'm not sure at this stage. My overall feeling is that NC may have bitten off more than he could chew and possibly should have cut his managerial teeth on an easier assignment. We're a proud club with great expectations (and somewhat fickle fans at times I must admit) and we expect success. Will we get it with NC? Or indeed with this group of players? I'm not sure what needs attention at this point in time but it needs to start to turn around that's for sure. Yes, I know it's very early days in the tenure and I do solemnly hope that things improve.

It's just that, for me, something just doesn't feel right....
 
I have similar feelings, maybe it is just the amount of change in such a short time. NC seems a decent bloke and his coaching credentials are beyond doubt but as we all know, a good coach doesn't necessarily make a good manager.

Are we playing better football? Yes
Do we have a clear strategy as a club? Yes
Are we signing the right players? Yes and no, I'm happy we have signed good young potential but there needs to be a better balance of experience and leadership
Will we improve? Yes, well we'd struggle not to

I hate losing nor am I the most patient during and immediately after a game but we have to back Sadler, Critchley and the new players to turn things around. Whilst it has been a poor start, 4 games isn't the time to judge too harshly. If things haven't improved after 10-12 games, then alarm bells should be ringing. Whilst there are niggling doubts I'm sure they will fade if we can pick up a couple of wins quickly after the international break.
 
I said from the beginning we would have a slow start to the season.
Of course the posts would have been different if we had won 2-1 but that would have been based on playing out the last 9 minutes in a bit more experienced manner.
It was those 9 minutes when the lack of experience showed, when we cried out for an Evo at the back or Keith Southern in midfield or even Armand Gnanduillet up front.
I talked yesterday about "investing" in players. Critchley is clearly going to invest in HIS signings and rightly so. Like the rest of the BFC world however I just think the spine of CB, CM & CF are lacking a bit of nous.
 
I think I probably WOULD have posted similar even we'd ran out 2-1 winners.
As I said, something just doesn't feel right - maybe it's me?
 
Whether he is good or not - if we are in or around that bottom 3 at Christmas time there is no doubt that SS will be twitching over his significant investment. That's football.

The amount of naive and wishful thinking on AVFTT is staggering. Talk of NC having 4 year plans etc. If we remain at the foot of the table NC will be toast.
 
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BobHatton said:
Is NC the right man for the job? My overall feeling is that NC may have bitten off more than he could chew and possibly should have cut his managerial teeth on an easier assignment. We're a proud club with great expectations and we expect success. Will we get it with NC? I'm not sure what needs attention at this point in time but it needs to start to turn around that's for sure. Yes, I know it's very early days in the tenure and I do solemnly hope that things improve.
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Come on, Bob, what was wrong with

‘This is ** shit ** learn critchley or fuck off. You have not got a clue’
 
Insy nails it for me.
Sure we need to give it time to allow the players to get used to the way the manager wants to play. And sure, we need to back the manager. But that doesn't mean we can't voice or share our concerns. It's puzzling why the manager can't see what pretty much everyone else can. That to date, we are giving so many goals away through poor defending in the middle at the back. Why hasn't he addressed this problem? The only reason I can think of, is that he's got a certain player in mind and he's waiting for him to become available. The two centre halves are the biggest concern for me and yesterday I thought Husband proved he probably should only play in a back three in the middle, not in a back two. Don't think he's tall enough to be one of two.
I like Robson but we are missing that creative player alongside him and up front Yates still has a lot to do to convince me he's someone who can get the goals from playing down the middle. At times yesterday in the second half his touch was poor and apart from one effort where he cut in from wide right and curled one just wide, I thought he was pretty anonymous.
We are still a work in progress of course but I still come back to the point that if your two centre halves aren't good enough now, they perhaps are never going to be.
 
Yes and no.

For the first time yesterday, I questioned what he said after the game. He rightly said we were decent first half. We were and we had a really good long spell of attacking.

Second half he said we didn't go forward enough. True. But it wasn't the players who elected to play with no striker and an extra defensive midfielder.

But... It does no good speculating about getting rid. What he's done, presumably with backing and the knowledge of Sadler is start again. Go to year zero. He's essentially chosen to let go or not use the following players who are mostly perfectly acceptable league 1 players (I'm not saying their promotion winners, but they have their strengths and can broadly cut it) - Fonz, Spearo, Edwards, MacDonald, Feeney, Madine, Thorniley and perhaps Hardie.

That's 8 players who've either given us or another club at a higher or similar level decent service.

On any individual, I probably agree with his decisions, but to change every single position apart from the keeper and RB (and presumably Gabriel will come in) is a massive undertaking and is almost certainly going to lead to some issues. Could he have worked some of that experience or existing qualities in? Maybe.

If Sadler is a proper football fan, he'll know that. You never get away with changing everything in one year. It *always* takes time. If he's sanctioned a full clear out, then he needs to stick with Critchley for a while cos if we're not careful, next year we'll be having another one as someone else comes in with new ideals and needs their players etc.

That works more often in the premier league as you've constantly got 100s of millions coming in so you can find it and the standard technically is higher so players can adapt quicker but in league one you've got to build a team and you can't keep trying to be build it from scratch every season.

What we've done is risky. It might go wrong. Then again, where we were, required a risk as overall the squad as was would not get out the league. I'm loathe to condemn someone for being 'too brave' as otherwise we're back to accepting we're a limited league one side, getting men behind the ball and a draw being a good result.

I want Critch to double down on attacking football and not get the jitters about what he's trying to do. It's too late for that now, so just ** go for it.

Death or Glory, not bringing on Williams on 70 minutes all the time. What I think doesn't feel quite right is we're not actually seeing that all out, attack, constant blitzkrieg that I thought we would.

Accy is an interesting prospect, it will be intriguing to see what he does.
 
20togo said:
Insy nails it for me.
Sure we need to give it time to allow the players to get used to the way the manager wants to play. And sure, we need to back the manager. But that doesn't mean we can't voice or share our concerns. It's puzzling why the manager can't see what pretty much everyone else can. That to date, we are giving so many goals away through poor defending in the middle at the back. Why hasn't he addressed this problem? The only reason I can think of, is that he's got a certain player in mind and he's waiting for him to become available. The two centre halves are the biggest concern for me and yesterday I thought Husband proved he probably should only play in a back three in the middle, not in a back two. Don't think he's tall enough to be one of two.
I like Robson but we are missing that creative player alongside him and up front Yates still has a lot to do to convince me he's someone who can get the goals from playing down the middle. At times yesterday in the second half his touch was poor and apart from one effort where he cut in from wide right and curled one just wide, I thought he was pretty anonymous.
We are still a work in progress of course but I still come back to the point that if your two centre halves aren't good enough now, they perhaps are never going to be.
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Very fair.
 
20togo said:
Insy nails it for me.
Sure we need to give it time to allow the players to get used to the way the manager wants to play. And sure, we need to back the manager. But that doesn't mean we can't voice or share our concerns. It's puzzling why the manager can't see what pretty much everyone else can. That to date, we are giving so many goals away through poor defending in the middle at the back. Why hasn't he addressed this problem? The only reason I can think of, is that he's got a certain player in mind and he's waiting for him to become available. The two centre halves are the biggest concern for me and yesterday I thought Husband proved he probably should only play in a back three in the middle, not in a back two. Don't think he's tall enough to be one of two.
I like Robson but we are missing that creative player alongside him and up front Yates still has a lot to do to convince me he's someone who can get the goals from playing down the middle. At times yesterday in the second half his touch was poor and apart from one effort where he cut in from wide right and curled one just wide, I thought he was pretty anonymous.
We are still a work in progress of course but I still come back to the point that if your two centre halves aren't good enough now, they perhaps are never going to be.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't disagree with any of that. The 2 centre half issue has been said every week and yet nothing. Also agree about a creative midfielder who can pick a pass and link up play. As for Yates he does continue to frustrate. I've noticed that when he get's possession he weaves in and out of players with the ball in close control but never lifts his head or makes a simple pass to a colleague. I really think he's become desperate for a goal and his body language seems one of a man who is totally frustrated.

It's an oxymoron though because at times the football is sublime. It just needs to be sublime and effective. The worry is there seem to be a lot of elements lacking in order to be effective. And if we don't get two centre halves and stop other teams scoring the most ridiculously soft goals - then we will not win games.
 
Your always going to have problems when you bring so many players in it's a whole new team every club usually does and we've a crap defence to boot.
I dislike the 4-3-3 formation also NC is admiant with sticking with as we don't have that player who sits in to let you go to a back 3 which would help out our poor centre half's and free up your wing backs to bomb forward to join the attack pushing your front 3 closer and giving Yates someone to work with.

Hopefully NC now goes for a bit of experience to bolster the squad up not inexperienced youth in the coming week.
 
As much as there is some sublime football, there is still an awful lot of long ball stuff too, trying to release Hamilton. That's not to say it's not effective because it can be. I just wish Husband had tried it yesterday rather than dilly dally on the ball.
 
Insider said:
I said from the beginning we would have a slow start to the season.
Of course the posts would have been different if we had won 2-1 but that would have been based on playing out the last 9 minutes in a bit more experienced manner.
It was those 9 minutes when the lack of experience showed, when we cried out for an Evo at the back or Keith Southern in midfield or even Armand Gnanduillet up front.
I talked yesterday about "investing" in players. Critchley is clearly going to invest in HIS signings and rightly so. Like the rest of the BFC world however I just think the spine of CB, CM & CF are lacking a bit of nous.
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Spot on (Geddit!?). Total lack of experience where you said. And a captain.
 
We haven't signed a player to play left centre back. Nottingham was filling in, then Husband got a turn. It's obviously one position we are trying to fill but haven't found the right player. We need a central striker, IMO. Midfield I'm uncertain about, it's looked good in some games and less so in others, but it's early days. Playing Ward and Anderson together doesn't work in some games, they are not pure midfield players. But we have quite a few options and time will work things out. We haven't had Virtue yet, and Sarkic has been injured and not used in midfield either.
 
I think that the arguments about Critchley are sensible.
Someone said about his coaching at Liverpool was good etc.
My point is that, at L'pool he didn't suddenly have a full, new team all at once. They came 1 by one, maybe 2 by 2 in to his training methods.
He didn't get 20+ players all at once.
It's much harder than at L'Pool.
 
Have only commented on a couple of threads recently football wise and each one has been the same....... why can’t NC see that the centre halves are our problem? We can all see it can’t we 👍🏼
 
td53 said:
But... It does no good speculating about getting rid. What he's done, presumably with backing and the knowledge of Sadler is start again. Go to year zero. He's essentially chosen to let go or not use the following players who are mostly perfectly acceptable league 1 players (I'm not saying their promotion winners, but they have their strengths and can broadly cut it) - Fonz, Spearo, Edwards, MacDonald, Feeney, Madine, Thorniley and perhaps Hardie.
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There are some very valid points but of the list of players above almost all were derided by a large proportion of fans at least on here. Fonz had an occasional good game but largely flattered to decieve, Spearing was a calming influence in a side that was very defense minded, but in an attacking side he would break the flow up too much, can see why he was let go. Mcdonald and feeney personally not sure why we let them go, feeney to me was a plan b, but then who would be on the end of crosses coming in early. Mcdonald always impressed me, good defensively and decent going forward. Madine is still with us but last year looked uninterested, his last two subs appearances hes looked the part and im really surprised he didnt come on yesterday. Hardie played a couple of times and was always on the end of abuse and Thorniley is something of an enigma, he looks class one moment, his positional sense and interceptions then just completely loses the plot a couple of minutes later by being either completely immobile or in completely the wrong place.

There are obviously things that need to be worked on. Defensively we are all over the place, as a comparison, so were Swindon, so were Lincoln yesterday and plymouth who we breached enough times to have run out comfortable winners but our final pass, shot were off. Gillingham really didnt have to defend they just fell down whenever a white shirt came close to them. I think, but i dont know that there is so much focus on possession and getting forward that i think some basics are not being covered. Set-peices are awful, there isnt a corner or a freekick that has worried our opponents yet, and we are terrible when defending them.

This team is definitely better than last year, even accounting for the defensive liabilities. Saying that last year we had a very defensive set up and would leak goals 1.3 per game or thereabouts with very few clean sheets, but looking at the table that wasnt unusual teams at this level concede goals. We would also average very little possession and very few shots on goal which i think was everyones big problem.

Im not sure we have found the best combinations of players and formations yet, I think we are close and critchley is definitely learning. Pre-season our defenders were messing around with the ball in their own penalty area and losing it which by the time we played our first proper game that had been stamped out. Even when we go longer now we tend to find a pool player much more often than we dont. When we kick off now I have the anticipation that we are going to do something, wheras last year I hoped we would do something.

Our forward play isnt quite gelling the way it should be, we are seeing it in bits and pieces, but it is that last pass or shot that isnt quite making the mark. i think it will come.
 
I believe Critchley is the right man for the job and he will prove it in the long term. His possession based football is the right way to go and when it all fits into place league one teams will not fancy playing us when they know they will be chasing the ball for long periods. It is and always was going to take time. Defence is a problem and will be whatever system is adopted. The two centre halfs are not good enough for this league. Its a shame Husband tired so much and got himself sent off, I thought he was an immediate improvement. I would like to see Thorniley given a chance can he do any worse ? Is Heneghan still available ? I would play two holding midfielders due to this problem one certainly being Robson. AM would go to Ward ( there is a very decent footballer there. ) The excellent CJ Hamilton on the right and I would move Yates to the left a position he has played before ( its only a matter of time before he is on score sheet) . Centre forward would go to Madine and I would make him captain. We have appeared niave at times . Madine is skilful, will score goals and is aggressive and streetwise, well versed in the dark arts. His experience and knowledge will rub off on others. I am not certain he will be a prolific scorer but can certainly envisage CJ and Yates sharing that responsibility.
 
I would also not be against putting Yates in the attacking midfield role ( Ward then the other defensive midfielder )
 
It’s simple really. We are lacking experience and role models in all vital areas of the pitch. I’m not very keen on having a goalkeeper as captain. It just doesn’t work for me.
You’ve got young players still learning the game and players stepping up a level. They should be surrounded and nurtured by cool heads and experienced pros. This is not the sort of thing that can be resolved easily in training. It comes with time in the game played at preferably a higher level.
 
I don't know about needing GRANDULET up front!!!!!!!!!!After yesterday's disaster at every corner or cross into the box, we could do with him back for just corners against us.
 
Martonmosser said:
Have only commented on a couple of threads recently football wise and each one has been the same....... why can’t NC see that the centre halves are our problem? We can all see it can’t we 👍🏼
Click to expand...
At this moment in time this team is definitely not better than the team that finished last season
 
20togo said:
Insy nails it for me.
Sure we need to give it time to allow the players to get used to the way the manager wants to play. And sure, we need to back the manager. But that doesn't mean we can't voice or share our concerns. It's puzzling why the manager can't see what pretty much everyone else can. That to date, we are giving so many goals away through poor defending in the middle at the back. Why hasn't he addressed this problem? The only reason I can think of, is that he's got a certain player in mind and he's waiting for him to become available. The two centre halves are the biggest concern for me and yesterday I thought Husband proved he probably should only play in a back three in the middle, not in a back two. Don't think he's tall enough to be one of two.
I like Robson but we are missing that creative player alongside him and up front Yates still has a lot to do to convince me he's someone who can get the goals from playing down the middle. At times yesterday in the second half his touch was poor and apart from one effort where he cut in from wide right and curled one just wide, I thought he was pretty anonymous.
We are still a work in progress of course but I still come back to the point that if your two centre halves aren't good enough now, they perhaps are never going to be.
Click to expand...
Good point about waiting for a specific target, maybe a Prem loan, which could happen after tomorrow's deadline.
 
20togo said:
Insy nails it for me.
Sure we need to give it time to allow the players to get used to the way the manager wants to play. And sure, we need to back the manager. But that doesn't mean we can't voice or share our concerns. It's puzzling why the manager can't see what pretty much everyone else can. That to date, we are giving so many goals away through poor defending in the middle at the back. Why hasn't he addressed this problem? The only reason I can think of, is that he's got a certain player in mind and he's waiting for him to become available. The two centre halves are the biggest concern for me and yesterday I thought Husband proved he probably should only play in a back three in the middle, not in a back two. Don't think he's tall enough to be one of two.
I like Robson but we are missing that creative player alongside him and up front Yates still has a lot to do to convince me he's someone who can get the goals from playing down the middle. At times yesterday in the second half his touch was poor and apart from one effort where he cut in from wide right and curled one just wide, I thought he was pretty anonymous.
We are still a work in progress of course but I still come back to the point that if your two centre halves aren't good enough now, they perhaps are never going to be.
Click to expand...
Waiting for this weekend and the prem teams to sort there squads out
 
BobHatton said:
I think I probably WOULD have posted similar even we'd ran out 2-1 winners.
As I said, something just doesn't feel right - maybe it's me?
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It may be that football is leaving our generation. Maybe it's becoming too manufactured, too money-centred, too reliant on 'big names' to feed the football PR industry cashcow. Perhaps this happens to every generation. Just a thought.
 
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