Players missing yesterday

voyeur

Well-known member
See my reply to TTP. To expand. I think we've got serious problems with the centre of our defence. As much as we've got problems with our front three, not necessarily the personnel there, but how to get the best out of them, it's different with the heart of defence. The basic skills of a a central defender are about positional sense and awareness. We are conceding soft goals and chances and that needs addressing asap. Basically, I think it's much easier to slot in a central defender than a midfield or forward player. I know it's an extreme example but it's the point I'm making, if we signed a 10 million pound centre half because it was needed, you'd put him straight in. You wouldn't wait a month for him to train and get used to the players and the system. So if Ballard and Greta are good enough, get 'em in.
I think what NC is saying is that Ballard is ready to go in, but was away on international duty and got back early hours Thursday. We will see him soon, and rightly so. Gretarsson needs to adapt and will be broken in gradually. It all seems sensible to me. The criticism of NC seems over the top. He is trying to piece together a team from many hastily assembled pieces. The quality is affected to a large degree by the budget, which is subject to a pretty tight salary cap. I think Marv is doing ok and getting better each game - he exemplifies the right approach - don't panic, allow players to get used to the system and colleagues. We have been using stop gaps at LCB all season, Nottingham, Husband, Turton. Not great obviously. Ballard may have to play on the left at first, when he normally plays on the right. Is that the best thing to do? We have to trust NC when he says that Gretarsson needs to acclimatise. It isn't hard to understand that this would be the case, it's a big change moving from the Norwegian League to League One. We saw Gabriel and Garbutt last week get put straight in and struggle, and they are used to playing in English football on grass etc. I think NC was wrong to do that, and said so at the time, before the game kicked off even. Look at the 4 ipswich goals.
 

20togo

Well-known member
especially you

The one thing you don’t mention is we’re in extreme times where players have not had a preseason because of the window closing late .So players who have been without clubs are not fit.
....and of the four new players we have, who were without clubs?
 

TANGERINETOWERPOWER

Well-known member
I think what NC is saying is that Ballard is ready to go in, but was away on international duty and got back early hours Thursday. We will see him soon, and rightly so. Gretarsson needs to adapt and will be broken in gradually. It all seems sensible to me. The criticism of NC seems over the top. He is trying to piece together a team from many hastily assembled pieces. The quality is affected to a large degree by the budget, which is subject to a pretty tight salary cap. I think Marv is doing ok and getting better each game - he exemplifies the right approach - don't panic, allow players to get used to the system and colleagues. We have been using stop gaps at LCB all season, Nottingham, Husband, Turton. Not great obviously. Ballard may have to play on the left at first, when he normally plays on the right. Is that the best thing to do? We have to trust NC when he says that Gretarsson needs to acclimatise. It isn't hard to understand that this would be the case, it's a big change moving from the Norwegian League to League One. We saw Gabriel and Garbutt last week get put straight in and struggle, and they are used to playing in English football on grass etc. I think NC was wrong to do that, and said so at the time, before the game kicked off even. Look at the 4 ipswich goals.
Some balanced and fair comments Voy but when are we going to get a settled side? I see it as a long way off because the players picked yesterday wont be the manager's first choices once everyone is up to speed. A poor pre season has come home to roost and I can see changes every game which is not ideal. People were very quick to condemn Gabriel last week when he was up against possibly the best player in the division (scored again yesterday) and yet the same people are purring about Turton who was running in treacle having lost his man yesterday. In an ideal world our defensive issues would have been sorted pre season and we would now have a settled back 4/5 playing week in week out but that is not where we are at. I guarantee at least two changes on Tuesday and more chopping and changing in the weeks to come. I agree we have to trust NC but he must accept he is under the microscope and all his decisions will be heavily scrutinised as he has made mistakes. To make no changes in the second half yesterday was naïve and a mistake tactically.
 

20togo

Well-known member
I think what NC is saying is that Ballard is ready to go in, but was away on international duty and got back early hours Thursday. We will see him soon, and rightly so. Gretarsson needs to adapt and will be broken in gradually. It all seems sensible to me. The criticism of NC seems over the top. He is trying to piece together a team from many hastily assembled pieces. The quality is affected to a large degree by the budget, which is subject to a pretty tight salary cap. I think Marv is doing ok and getting better each game - he exemplifies the right approach - don't panic, allow players to get used to the system and colleagues. We have been using stop gaps at LCB all season, Nottingham, Husband, Turton. Not great obviously. Ballard may have to play on the left at first, when he normally plays on the right. Is that the best thing to do? We have to trust NC when he says that Gretarsson needs to acclimatise. It isn't hard to understand that this would be the case, it's a big change moving from the Norwegian League to League One. We saw Gabriel and Garbutt last week get put straight in and struggle, and they are used to playing in English football on grass etc. I think NC was wrong to do that, and said so at the time, before the game kicked off even. Look at the 4 ipswich goals.
I understand that and agree to a certain extent. Ekpiteta is getting better. And I accept and agree with your point about certainly Carbutt not looking match or even fit. But the role of a full back or wing back is so much more demanding fitness wise than that of a central defender. A full/wing back has to mark his man, he has to get forward to help. In other words, he's more or less permanently on the move. A central defenders role is totally different. And why I think the risk is far less great than anywhere else on the pitch. We need a central defender in there and the sooner the better.
 

20togo

Well-known member
Dougall, and Garbutt !
The four new players were Ballard, Greta, Woodburn and Dougall. Garbutt was already here. And I thought we'd signed Dougall from Barnsley. If we did, then he'd have been training with them.
 

voyeur

Well-known member
Some balanced and fair comments Voy but when are we going to get a settled side? I see it as a long way off because the players picked yesterday wont be the manager's first choices once everyone is up to speed. A poor pre season has come home to roost and I can see changes every game which is not ideal. People were very quick to condemn Gabriel last week when he was up against possibly the best player in the division (scored again yesterday) and yet the same people are purring about Turton who was running in treacle having lost his man yesterday. In an ideal world our defensive issues would have been sorted pre season and we would now have a settled back 4/5 playing week in week out but that is not where we are at. I guarantee at least two changes on Tuesday and more chopping and changing in the weeks to come. I agree we have to trust NC but he must accept he is under the microscope and all his decisions will be heavily scrutinised as he has made mistakes. To make no changes in the second half yesterday was naïve and a mistake tactically.
I understand what you are saying but I just don't really agree, and I mean that respectfully. We have completely changed the squad and only signed several players in the last week. So evolution is inevitable. My point is that we should keep a pretty stable team and introduce players gradually. I think that is completely obviously the right approach, and don't understand all the panic tbh. Fans criticise subs one week and then no subs the next week. Everyone thinks they know what's right (including me). But I like to give the manager the time to work things out rather than criticise every 5 minutes. My main criticism of NC to date was the defensive changes last week. Other than that, I have not really had a problem. I wouldn't do exactly what he has done in every game, but I accept that I'm in my house watching on iFollow and haven't been at training all week etc. Let the guy do his job, there are enough positive signs for me. Given all the changes. He's new to the job too, give the guy a chance. He seems a bright fella to me, and a good man. I wish him well.
 

tangerine_neil

Well-known member
Think the most disappointing aspect for me is that I thought we had an excellent pre season and looked ready to start the season for the first time in ages. Turned out to be a false start, because we clearly weren’t ready and the multiple changes have taken a toll on results. Suppose we will have to be patient.
 

voyeur

Well-known member
The four new players were Ballard, Greta, Woodburn and Dougall. Garbutt was already here. And I thought we'd signed Dougall from Barnsley. If we did, then he'd have been training with them.
Dougall was released by Barnsley in June.
 

voyeur

Well-known member
I understand that and agree to a certain extent. Ekpiteta is getting better. And I accept and agree with your point about certainly Carbutt not looking match or even fit. But the role of a full back or wing back is so much more demanding fitness wise than that of a central defender. A full/wing back has to mark his man, he has to get forward to help. In other words, he's more or less permanently on the move. A central defenders role is totally different. And why I think the risk is far less great than anywhere else on the pitch. We need a central defender in there and the sooner the better.
And Ballard will be.
 

20togo

Well-known member
Dougall was released by Barnsley in June.
Ok, then fair enough with him. Strange then if he was on our radar why it's took so long. Not really that important or relevant though. As long as Critchley thinks he can add something.
 

20togo

Well-known member
I said it out of frustration with your snipe at Critchley tbh. "so he's got to adapt to training on grass but looked really good in training."

As FessParker righty replied, Blimey. Nitpicking at it's finest.
I see Harrogate adapted quite well yesterday to playing on grass.
 

voyeur

Well-known member
Ok, then fair enough with him. Strange then if he was on our radar why it's took so long. Not really that important or relevant though. As long as Critchley thinks he can add something.
He's been playing in the Championship on Championship wages so was probably holding out for a better deal.
 

20togo

Well-known member
I think NC was wrong to do that, and said so at the time, before the game kicked off even. Look at the 4 ipswich goals.

Got ya! So your criticisms of the manager are valid and you are allowed to say so. But others with a different viewpoint to you are not.
 

62years&counting

Well-known member
Well, he threw the Forest lad in last week and that turned out well didn't it...............
Critch is on a hiding to nothing.

I really hope Oystain can get another club and all the serial moaners can go and support them and then you can really have something to moan about.
🤔🤬🤬🤬
It remains to be seen whether the most recent recruits improve the team. In Gabriel's case it would appear not. In Garbutt's case his lack of fitness and resultant injury make you wonder. Ballard is only 21, with just a handful of senior games to his name, is talented but inexperienced. Gretarsson in his mid 20's has games under his belt but not in the EFL. Woodburn, with several recent injuries and just 2 goals in 35 appearances, may or may not be the answer to our attacking midfield issues. Dougall another who had a bad injury isn't match fit but is highly thought of. Hopefully he'll make his mark in time.
If some of these players do strengthen the team then we may become a more cohesive unit. Where the goals will come from remains an issue. Lack of a goalscorer may well blight our season and leave us also rans.
 
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