Protestor intrusion on Keir Starmer

EPM46 said:
To all those contributors to this post who are making negative comments about the Labour Party, come back after the forthcoming election, when we have won a landslide and the Tories are destined to spend a generation in the wilderness where they belong!
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Well keep the red flag flying comrade 🚩
 
Wizaard said:
She is an Independent having had the whip taken away earlier this year. See also Jeremy Corbyn
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Yeah I know

That's why I keep saying the Labour party isn't aligned

What do you make of Lammy and his comments against Israel when Starmer has quite clearly said that they stand with Israel

Until your lot sort out stuff like that then you will be judged no better than the Conservatives who you obviously hate
 
The sad thing is, in this two party system, is whoever gets elected nearly always fail on their manifesto promises.
They get lambasted by opposition supporters whilst in power over how they've failed, opposition get elected to make good the shitshow from the previous party, they don't, and the circus starts all over again.

And I've voted Tory, Labour and Liberal Democrats over the years.
With just the two parties to choose from nowadays with no realistic alternative, I genuinely think that the country is goosed.
 
Wizzerboy said:
The sad thing is, in this two party system, is whoever gets elected nearly always fail on their manifesto promises.
They get lambasted by opposition supporters whilst in power over how they've failed, opposition get elected to make good the shitshow from the previous party, they don't, and the circus starts all over again.

And I've voted Tory, Labour and Liberal Democrats over the years.
With just the two parties to choose from nowadays with no realistic alternative, I genuinely think that the country is goosed.
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Yep bang that

If you dare to criticise Labour you are deemed a Tory as evidenced on this very thread

It really isn't that black or white

Btw Starmer has just spoken really well on the Israel situation
 
Goldfinger said:
I think Labour will form the next government by default.
Like Trump becoming president, they wouldn't necessarily have voted for him but the opponent was Hilary Clinton and they refused to vote for her.
Same will apply here with the Tories and Labour.
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Yep that's how I see it
 
Members of any political party don’t have to be aligned on everything, they can have different opinions on certain matters.

Look at the Conservative Party for the last 13 years ffs.
 
seasideone said:
Any form of large amounts of money given to political funding normally comes with a caveat!!!!

Therefore, using money to influence a political outcome.

Both sides are at it!
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Depends what they want for their money.

A seat in the House of Lords is far more influential than hoping for some policy change to benefit your members.

I'm not disagreeing with you, by the way, but it's all nuanced
 
Wizaard said:
Depends what they want for their money.

A seat in the House of Lords is far more influential than hoping for some policy change to benefit your members.

I'm not disagreeing with you, by the way, but it's all nuanced
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I’m not sure a seat in the House of Lords is that influential - you are one person - get a political party to agree with you who may well be in power is powerful.

Glad we agree though it’s all bent!
 
Goldfinger said:
I think Labour will form the next government by default.
Like Trump becoming president, they wouldn't necessarily have voted for him but the opponent was Hilary Clinton and they refused to vote for her.
Same will apply here with the Tories and Labour.
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Hillary Ciinton actually polled nearly three million more votes than Trump did in 2016.

So if they "refused to vote for her", I'm not sure what that says about him.
 
seasideone said:
Any form of large amounts of money given to political funding normally comes with a caveat!!!!

Therefore, using money to influence a political outcome.

Both sides are at it!
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You're not this obtuse and you're only grasping on to this comparison for argument's sake.
 
basilrobbie3 said:
Hillary Ciinton actually polled nearly three million more votes than Trump did in 2016.

So if they "refused to vote for her", I'm not sure what that says about him.
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"They" being the undecided with no real affinity to any party.
(Plus Clinton " won" a lot of postal votes which of course according to Trump were rigged)😂
 
Wizzerboy said:
The sad thing is, in this two party system, is whoever gets elected nearly always fail on their manifesto promises.
They get lambasted by opposition supporters whilst in power over how they've failed, opposition get elected to make good the shitshow from the previous party, they don't, and the circus starts all over again.

And I've voted Tory, Labour and Liberal Democrats over the years.
With just the two parties to choose from nowadays with no realistic alternative, I genuinely think that the country is goosed.
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The Labour Governments of 1997-2010 promised:
* To introduce the minimum wage. They introduced the minimum wage.
* To increase the numbers of police on the streets and to cut crime. They introduced 14,000 new police officers and cut crime by 32%.
* They promised to improve literacy and numeracy in schools. They achieved what were then, record levels of literacy and numeracy in schools.
* They promised to increase the number of people of in work. They achieved record levels of employment at that time.
* They promised to increase front line medical staff. They introduced 89k new nurses and 44k new doctors.
* They promised to introduce devolution in Scotland and Wales. Powers were devolved to the Scottish Parliament and the Welsh Assembly.
* They promised to restore City-wide Government to London. This was done.
* They promised to introduce and deliver Sure Start. It was introduced with 2,200 centres and was a huge success.
* They promised to lift vulnerable people out of poverty. 1 million pensioners and 600k children were lifted out of relative poverty.
* They promised to significantly increase the number of school teachers. They increased teacher staffing numbers by 36k and introduced 274k support staff and teaching assistants.
* They vowed to work towards peace in Northern Ireland. Together with senior Northern Ireland, Republic and American leaders they achieved the Belfast agreement, bringing peace to the streets of Northern Ireland.

The list goes on and on: Long-term youth unemployment cut by 75%, free TV licences for over 75s, deaths from heart disease cut by 150k, deaths from cancer reduced by 50k, free nursery places for every 3-4 year old, 3 million plus child trust funds set up, achieving the cleanest rivers, beaches, drinking water and air since before the industrial revolution., bringing 1 million+ social houses up to standard, reducing in-patient waiting lists by 500k.

Being cynical and deriding politicians is easy. The current Government provides easy targets. But it's also worth remembering just what a truly reforming Government can achieve.
 
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1966_and_all_that said:
The Labour Governments of 1997-2010 promised:
* To introduce the minimum wage. They introduced the minimum wage.
* To increase the numbers of police on the streets and to cut crime. They introduced 14,000 new police officers and cut crime by 32%.
* They promised to improve literacy and numeracy in schools. They achieved what were then, record levels of literacy and numeracy in schools.
* They promised to increase the number of people of in work. They achieved record levels of employment at that time.
* They promised to increase front line medical staff. They introduced 89k new nurses and 44k new doctors.
* They promised to introduce devolution in Scotland and Wales. Powers were devolved to the Scottish Parliament and the Welsh Assembly.
* They promised to restore City-wide Government to London. This was done.
* They promised to introduce and deliver Sure Start. It was introduced with 2,200 centres and was a huge success.
* They promised to lift vulnerable people out of poverty. 1 million pensioners and 600k children were lifted out of relative poverty.
* They promised to significantly increase the number of school teachers. They increased teacher staffing numbers by 36k and introduced 274k support staff and teaching assistants.
* They vowed to work towards peace in Northern Ireland. Together with senior Northern Ireland, Republic and American leaders they achieved the Belfast agreement, bringing peace to the streets of Northern Ireland.

The list goes on and on: Long-term youth unemployment cut by 75%, free TV licences for over 75s, deaths from heart disease cut by 150k, deaths from cancer reduced by 50k, free nursery places for every 3-4 year old, 3 million plus child trust funds set up, achieving the cleanest rivers, beaches, drinking water and air since before the industrial revolution., bringing 1 million+ social houses up to standard, reducing in-patient waiting lists by 500k.

Being cynical and deriding politicians is easy. The current Government provides easy targets. But it's also worth remembering just what a truly reforming Government can achieve.
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You've forgotten the most important one

Taking the country to war based on a lie which caused nearly a million deaths 👍
 
Goldfinger said:
"They" being the undecided with no real affinity to any party.
(Plus Clinton " won" a lot of postal votes which of course according to Trump were rigged)😂
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It's funny that, isn't it? In the run up to the 2016 election Trump repeatedly refused to say he would accept the result - if he lost - and hinted it might be rigged.

In many ways, it was a far more implausible path to victory for him that it ever was for Biden four years later. He got very, very lucky with the way the votes fell in the Rust Belt. And funnily enough, all his doubts melted away - when he won.

He's never won a popular vote though. It must sting a bit.

As to unaffiliated voters (voting for non-mainstream Parties) - proportionally, there are far fewer of them in the USA than there are here. They have a marginal impact on results at best.
 
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Phil_bfc deux said:
You've forgotten the most important one

Taking the country to war based on a lie which caused nearly a million deaths 👍
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How did I guess you were going to produce that one? My post was in reply to one saying that on the whole Parties of all colours fail to deliver on their manifesto promises. I agree that sending troops to fight in Iraq was a failure of foreign policy. But that does not invalidate the list of achievements, based on manifesto promises and intentions. Your modus operandi is usually to find fault - whatever the subject - as if point scoring is the purpose of debate. That is not how I perceive it.
 
seasideone said:
Wrong - big donations come with expectations, whoever they are from.

You’re not this obtuse are you?
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It's not a donation, it's funding that's existed since and is responsible for the Labour party's inception, it's not a secret, Labour should be representing the working man in parliament, the clue is in the name, it does this through democratically organised unions. The members elect their leaders who represent their interests to the Labour party who then forward these in Westminster. This principal runs through the heart of the party, or is supposed to.

Suggesting that unions may have influence over Labour is lie suggesting that water gets you wet.

A fair comparison would be if the Tories announced they were created to further the interests of those who could pay the biggest bribes, maybe they were, I've no idea what they represent, I bet they haven't either.
 
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1966_and_all_that said:
The Labour Governments of 1997-2010 promised:
* To introduce the minimum wage. They introduced the minimum wage.
* To increase the numbers of police on the streets and to cut crime. They introduced 14,000 new police officers and cut crime by 32%.
* They promised to improve literacy and numeracy in schools. They achieved what were then, record levels of literacy and numeracy in schools.
* They promised to increase the number of people of in work. They achieved record levels of employment at that time.
* They promised to increase front line medical staff. They introduced 89k new nurses and 44k new doctors.
* They promised to introduce devolution in Scotland and Wales. Powers were devolved to the Scottish Parliament and the Welsh Assembly.
* They promised to restore City-wide Government to London. This was done.
* They promised to introduce and deliver Sure Start. It was introduced with 2,200 centres and was a huge success.
* They promised to lift vulnerable people out of poverty. 1 million pensioners and 600k children were lifted out of relative poverty.
* They promised to significantly increase the number of school teachers. They increased teacher staffing numbers by 36k and introduced 274k support staff and teaching assistants.
* They vowed to work towards peace in Northern Ireland. Together with senior Northern Ireland, Republic and American leaders they achieved the Belfast agreement, bringing peace to the streets of Northern Ireland.

The list goes on and on: Long-term youth unemployment cut by 75%, free TV licences for over 75s, deaths from heart disease cut by 150k, deaths from cancer reduced by 50k, free nursery places for every 3-4 year old, 3 million plus child trust funds set up, achieving the cleanest rivers, beaches, drinking water and air since before the industrial revolution., bringing 1 million+ social houses up to standard, reducing in-patient waiting lists by 500k.

Being cynical and deriding politicians is easy. The current Government provides easy targets. But it's also worth remembering just what a truly reforming Government can achieve.
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All the gains on that list have objectively been lost under this lot. That's a fact. Deliberately so in the name of profit in many cases, eg water.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
It's not a donation, it's funding that's existed since and is responsible for the Labour party's inception, it's not a secret, Labour should be representing the working man in parliament, the clue is in the name, it does this through democratically organised unions. The members elect their leaders who represent their interests to the Labour party who then forward these in Westminster. This principal runs through the heart of the party, or is supposed to.

Suggesting that unions may have influence over Labour is lie suggesting that water gets you wet.

A fair comparison would be if the Tories announced they were created to further the interests of those who could pay the biggest bribes, maybe they were, I've no idea what they represent, I bet they haven't either.
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Unions have undue influence over the Labour Party!

You may not like that - but it is correct.
 
seasideone said:
Unions have undue influence over the Labour Party!

You may not like that - but it is correct.
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Big business has undue influence over the Tories & not for the good of ordinary people. Union’s have some influence over today’s Labour Party as it was founded to look after us common folk & came out of the union’s.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
No, you don't understand, I do like it, because they're supposed to have.

I'm not sure how else to explain this?
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Funny that - neither do I.

I’ll try again.

Unions have an unfair advantage at stipulations Labour policy.

There - maybe you get it now 👍

Ps I couldn’t care less why they were formed - it’s about today!!
 
Sooty59 said:
Big business has undue influence over the Tories & not for the good of ordinary people. Union’s have some influence over today’s Labour Party as it was founded to look after us common folk & came out of the union’s.
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I’m not defending that either 👍
 
How many calling Blair out on Iraq were all for war at the time?
Or were they part of the 1.5 million protesting in London 2003 ?
 
seasideone said:
Funny that - neither do I.

I’ll try again.

Unions have an unfair advantage at stipulations Labour policy.

There - maybe you get it now 👍

Ps I couldn’t care less why they were formed - it’s about today!!
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It's not unfair, it's why Labour were formed.

You also seem to be equating unions with Russian oligarchs, which is a little bit silly.
 
Kurtan said:
How many calling Blair out on Iraq were all for war at the time?
Or were they part of the 1.5 million protesting in London 2003 ?
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I personally thought Blair must have had concrete information about WOMD but seemingly he just pampered to bush. The longer it went on the less convinced I became. Then the war machine got under way & we were spoon fed with the usual black & white goodies & baddies. The power had really got to Blair by this time. ☹️
 
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