Rail strikes

Newholland said:
👍 Do you want Labour to back the RMT strike and further escalation to a National strike? If so why?
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Why have you thrown a National Strike in as last of the mix? They should back the RMT yes, if a national strike happens then Labour sitting on the fence makes no difference to that outcome.

If it happens then Labour irrelevantly sitting on the fence will leave them out in the cold.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
Why have you thrown a National Strike in as last of the mix? They should back the RMT yes, if a national strike happens then Labour sitting on the fence makes no difference to that outcome.

If it happens then Labour irrelevantly sitting on the fence will leave them out in the cold.
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My reference to a National strike is taken from an increasing number of unions making strong overtures as to their position... Aslef... teachers ... barristers and more... this board also shows there is an appetite. Sir Kier knows full well this would be a backwards step for his election prospects. Whist he fully , and justifiably supports the desire for people to maintain living standards, it’s simply not possible in today’s financial climate, ensuring those in most need don’t fall further into real poverty has to be the priority of a true socialist... any strike, however it may be justified, does exactly the opposite. The Tory party are prodding the wasps nest of the militants, they know it is their only weapon now... Sir Kier is ahead of them and desperately treading a fine line... it’s up to you guys whether you tow his line. That’s obviously my opinion... if Sir Kier gets this right he gets my centre right blue tinged vote 👍
 
Newholland said:
My reference to a National strike is taken from an increasing number of unions making strong overtures as to their position... Aslef... teachers ... barristers and more... this board also shows there is an appetite. Sir Kier knows full well this would be a backwards step for his election prospects. Whist he fully , and justifiably supports the desire for people to maintain living standards, it’s simply not possible in today’s financial climate, ensuring those in most need don’t fall further into real poverty has to be the priority of a true socialist... any strike, however it may be justified, does exactly the opposite. The Tory party are prodding the wasps nest of the militants, they know it is their only weapon now... Sir Kier is ahead of them and desperately treading a fine line... it’s up to you guys whether you tow his line. That’s obviously my opinion... if Sir Kier gets this right he gets my centre right blue tinged vote 👍
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How is he relevant? Mixed messages that most of his party don't support makes him look weak, he has NO policy at all, or have I missed it?
 
Newholland said:
My reference to a National strike is taken from an increasing number of unions making strong overtures as to their position... Aslef... teachers ... barristers and more... this board also shows there is an appetite. Sir Kier knows full well this would be a backwards step for his election prospects. Whist he fully , and justifiably supports the desire for people to maintain living standards, it’s simply not possible in today’s financial climate, ensuring those in most need don’t fall further into real poverty has to be the priority of a true socialist... any strike, however it may be justified, does exactly the opposite. The Tory party are prodding the wasps nest of the militants, they know it is their only weapon now... Sir Kier is ahead of them and desperately treading a fine line... it’s up to you guys whether you tow his line. That’s obviously my opinion... if Sir Kier gets this right he gets my centre right blue tinged vote 👍
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If you like him so much how come you keep spelling his name wrong?😂
 
Junior_BentsPlatformShoes said:
Piss off Tommy, and return when you know what you are talking about re teachers.
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I know exactly what I'm on about so don't try and rewrite things. I said fair play to those that worked through; if that includes you then please pipe down. The teachers were getting tonnes of stick through the pandemic and the blame was put on the unions for being militant, not individual teachers (fair enough) which is why I added my caveat. I've got very little time for any of the unions for playing their part in this cost of living shit. I was marching last year and received ridicule and abuse. It was called an anti-lockdown march but you can call it a prevent a cost of living crisis march if you like...
The reality is the unions let everyone down by allowing the government to close everything down/creating essential and non-essential roles. Teachers should've been on the front line of the fight (kids not being at risk and transmission not being any different to any other workplace) imho.
Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.
 
rockontommy said:
I know exactly what I'm on about so don't try and rewrite things. I said fair play to those that worked through; if that includes you then please pipe down. The teachers were getting tonnes of stick through the pandemic and the blame was put on the unions for being militant, not individual teachers (fair enough) which is why I added my caveat. I've got very little time for any of the unions for playing their part in this cost of living shit. I was marching last year and received ridicule and abuse. It was called an anti-lockdown march but you can call it a prevent a cost of living crisis march if you like...
The reality is the unions let everyone down by allowing the government to close everything down/creating essential and non-essential roles. Teachers should've been on the front line of the fight (kids not being at risk and transmission not being any different to any other workplace) imho.
Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.
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Where were teachers getting 'Tonnes of stick?' From what I experienced, parents were fully behind the school and teachers during the pandemic and lock-downs. No rest or 'downing tools' from myself or staff (no furlough either) who worked tirelessly to ensure the children and families in our care continued to get educational and social provision. It seems you think the nurses are worthy but teachers not so, interesting. You clearly don't understand what happened in schools, as we were on the 'front-line', working with hundreds of children at close quarters (infants who happily share bodily fluids around, with other children and staff)whilst trying to keep the risk of everyone getting infected as minimal as possible.
It's clear you have an agenda against teachers, so take your pipe and stick it up your arse, smoking or not.
 
Junior_BentsPlatformShoes said:
Where were teachers getting 'Tonnes of stick?' From what I experienced, parents were fully behind the school and teachers during the pandemic and lock-downs. No rest or 'downing tools' from myself or staff (no furlough either) who worked tirelessly to ensure the children and families in our care continued to get educational and social provision. It seems you think the nurses are worthy but teachers not so, interesting. You clearly don't understand what happened in schools, as we were on the 'front-line', working with hundreds of children at close quarters (infants who happily share bodily fluids around, with other children and staff)whilst trying to keep the risk of everyone getting infected as minimal as possible.
It's clear you have an agenda against teachers, so take your pipe and stick it up your arse, smoking or not.
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Who has a pipe these days, never seen one for years, last one I encountered was when I visited my doctor in 1979, he was sat there stinking the surgery out
 
Junior_BentsPlatformShoes said:
Where were teachers getting 'Tonnes of stick?' From what I experienced, parents were fully behind the school and teachers during the pandemic and lock-downs. No rest or 'downing tools' from myself or staff (no furlough either) who worked tirelessly to ensure the children and families in our care continued to get educational and social provision. It seems you think the nurses are worthy but teachers not so, interesting. You clearly don't understand what happened in schools, as we were on the 'front-line', working with hundreds of children at close quarters (infants who happily share bodily fluids around, with other children and staff)whilst trying to keep the risk of everyone getting infected as minimal as possible.
It's clear you have an agenda against teachers, so take your pipe and stick it up your arse, smoking or not.
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He had an agenda against anyone who thought lockdown served a purpose, as his libertarian approach would have seen us ignoring any kind of preventative measure against covid.

And this was pre vaccine.
 
Newholland said:
Whist he fully , and justifiably supports the desire for people to maintain living standards, it’s simply not possible in today’s financial climate, ensuring those in most need don’t fall further into real poverty has to be the priority of a true socialist..
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With respect, that is what theTories and RW media would have you believe. Can you please explain why CEO pay and shareholder profits are more important than lower paid workers surviving a pay cut? 1% for a CEO on £500000 is £5k, I'm sure most workers would accept that. BA gave all their staff a 10% pay cut last year. Management have had it reinstated on their salaries, less paid workers have been offered it as a one off payment, in reality meaning a 10% pay cut next year. If we are all in it together, stuff percentages and start giving everyone flat pay increase across the board. Why on earth should Universal Credit and Food Banks make up for businesses underpaying staff whilst paying dividends?
 
Tangerinemoss said:
With respect, that is what theTories and RW media would have you believe. Can you please explain why CEO pay and shareholder profits are more important than lower paid workers surviving a pay cut? 1% for a CEO on £500000 is £5k, I'm sure most workers would accept that. BA gave all their staff a 10% pay cut last year. Management have had it reinstated on their salaries, less paid workers have been offered it as a one off payment, in reality meaning a 10% pay cut next year. If we are all in it together, stuff percentages and start giving everyone flat pay increase across the board. Why on earth should Universal Credit and Food Banks make up for businesses underpaying staff whilst paying dividends?
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I agree couldn’t agree more... but there is nothing I as a voter I can do at the moment but I do feel very strongly that strikes will be counter productive. The UK economy is in a mess, the last thing the Labour leader wants is for it to be worse. Levelling up of pay can be examined once in power, just my opinion 👍
 
Tangerinemoss said:
With respect, that is what theTories and RW media would have you believe. Can you please explain why CEO pay and shareholder profits are more important than lower paid workers surviving a pay cut? 1% for a CEO on £500000 is £5k, I'm sure most workers would accept that. BA gave all their staff a 10% pay cut last year. Management have had it reinstated on their salaries, less paid workers have been offered it as a one off payment, in reality meaning a 10% pay cut next year. If we are all in it together, stuff percentages and start giving everyone flat pay increase across the board. Why on earth should Universal Credit and Food Banks make up for businesses underpaying staff whilst paying dividends?
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Hear, hear!
 
Newholland said:
I agree couldn’t agree more... but there is nothing I as a voter I can do at the moment but I do feel very strongly that strikes will be counter productive. The UK economy is in a mess, the last thing the Labour leader wants is for it to be worse. Levelling up of pay can be examined once in power, just my opinion 👍
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I recognise your position and its sincerity but your argument is not with TM. The railway workers are being taken to the cleaners by employers who have given them nothing for two years and who now demand redundancies. So far, you will agree with their case. When it comes to strike action though the employers' hands are tied because behind the scenes they are being told how far they can't go by the Government. I'm sure that with a decent funding settlement for the network the employers would be more conciliatory.
 
Meanwhile, as workers get very concerned about pay , understandably, at a Tory fundraiser attended by Johnson, someone paid 120k for dinner with his fatness, and another 150k for dinner with him, May and Cameron. Different world, another planet ? (And I thought he said recently we were moving towards a high wage economy ?)
 
Always tangerine said:
Meanwhile, as workers get very concerned about pay , understandably, at a Tory fundraiser attended by Johnson, someone paid 120k for dinner with his fatness, and another 150k for dinner with him, May and Cameron. Different world, another planet ? (And I thought he said recently we were moving towards a high wage economy ?)
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The world of celebrities, sports stars etc etc ... it’s not and never will be a fair world.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
I recognise your position and its sincerity but your argument is not with TM. The railway workers are being taken to the cleaners by employers who have given them nothing for two years and who now demand redundancies. So far, you will agree with their case. When it comes to strike action though the employers' hands are tied because behind the scenes they are being told how far they can't go by the Government. I'm sure that with a decent funding settlement for the network the employers would be more conciliatory.
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The Government are looking for a fight with the Unions, no doubt about it . I don’t know enough about the RMT strike , my concerns are for the damage further widespread action will do and the affect on the most vulnerable.
 
Newholland said:
The Government are looking for a fight with the Unions, no doubt about it . I don’t know enough about the RMT strike , my concerns are for the damage further widespread action will do and the affect on the most vulnerable.
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Absolutely nowhere near the damage being delivered by Johnson, Sunak, Truss and Patel.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
But those of u

But those of us who oppose that - I include you - should shout about it.
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I do and so does my father, Tory voter all his life, emails to our MP on a regular basis. BJ is the gift that keeps on giving to Labour... KS knows it and I believe is playing BJ at his own game... my opinion is too much industrial unrest, however justified, will not help him. Again just my opinion.
 
Newholland said:
I do and so does my father, Tory voter all his life, emails to our MP on a regular basis. BJ is the gift that keeps on giving to Labour... KS knows it and I believe is playing BJ at his own game... my opinion is too much industrial unrest, however justified, will not help him. Again just my opinion.
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And I do see it honestly. But the audience that Johnson can play his '70s Union barons' to is vanishingly small. You might well be right in that it will play against Labour but I'm trying to be honest and say that this strike is necessary.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
And I do see it honestly. But the audience that Johnson can play his '70s Union barons' to is vanishingly small. You might well be right in that it will play against Labour but I'm trying to be honest and say that this strike is necessary.
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As I said, I don’t know enough about the rail strike, so I accept your opinion on it and hope a satisfactory outcome can be found quickly... I think we can agree that would be in all our interest.
 
Wizaard said:
He had an agenda against anyone who thought lockdown served a purpose, as his libertarian approach would have seen us ignoring any kind of preventative measure against covid.

And this was pre vaccine.
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Mostly accurate 👍🏻
 
Always tangerine said:
Meanwhile, as workers get very concerned about pay , understandably, at a Tory fundraiser attended by Johnson, someone paid 120k for dinner with his fatness, and another 150k for dinner with him, May and Cameron. Different world, another planet ? (And I thought he said recently we were moving towards a high wage economy ?)
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He also said levelling up, so I’m inviting him for dinner with me for a benchmark £120,000
 
So here’s the thing. Strikes on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday that made all the big summer events a nightmare for travel. Me and Mrs SATW then head out today to go into London for a gig and there’s engineering works and replacement buses....
 
Labour's strategy here is concerning. They need to come out in support of all the public servants, rail workers and barristers. There has been massive under-investment down the years whilst the fat-cats and financial services have been encouraged to flaunt their bonuses and wealth. Labour should be saying that it's time the workers had their day in the sun.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
Labour's strategy here is concerning. They need to come out in support of all the public servants, rail workers and barristers. There has been massive under-investment down the years whilst the fat-cats and financial services have been encouraged to flaunt their bonuses and wealth. Labour should be saying that it's time the workers had their day in the sun.
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Yep, we’re not of the same political views on some issues, but I agree with you on this. The sight of young traders throwing expensive champagne around with their million pound bonuses is just wrong
 
Matesrates said:
Ah bless, poor things, up until November I worked in a bank as a customer service advisor, I was responsible for peoples money, sorting out fraud, dealing with bereavements, power of attorney and many other sensitive issues. My salary was £18,600 full time, so forgive me if I have no sympathy for ticket inspectors on £33k
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Am I right in thinking that your monday to friday 9-5, paid bank holidays off, job will have benefited from not only an annual pay rise, negotiated on your behalf by your union, but also cash and/or share option bonus' ?
 
seasideone said:
If everyone stood in the way of technology we would still be in or before the stone age.
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Agreed, however, you will be aware that unions exist to protect the interests of their members, both collectively and individually, which is what they are doing now.
 
CCFskiver said:
Agreed, however, you will be aware that unions exist to protect the interests of their members, both collectively and individually, which is what they are doing now.
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The interests of their members run contrary to the interests of everyone else, which is to say rail users who have to pay higher fares and taxpayers who subsidise the whole thing.
 
Lost Seasider said:
The interests of their members run contrary to the interests of everyone else, which is to say rail users who have to pay higher fares and taxpayers who subsidise the whole thing.
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Tax payers are subsidising profits paid to shareholders by the operators, this money could be spent on the railways instead.
There is a good argument to bring rail back into public ownership.
 
Lost Seasider said:
The interests of their members run contrary to the interests of everyone else, which is to say rail users who have to pay higher fares and taxpayers who subsidise the whole thing.
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It is in the interests of the whole of the country for people to be in good quality, well paid jobs. Isn't that Johnson's mantra. Perhaps he's being selective in who he wants to be well paid and in what jobs.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
Tax payers are subsidising profits paid to shareholders by the operators, this money could be spent on the railways instead.
There is a good argument to bring rail back into public ownership.
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Bring rail back into public ownership and then every strike really is the government's fault, and if you think the old British Rail was any better than what we have today, then you must have some strongly rose-tinted spectacles on.

There's a strong argument for banning trade unions IMO, or at least severely limiting their ability to take industrial action.
 
Lost Seasider said:
Bring rail back into public ownership and then every strike really is the government's fault, and if you think the old British Rail was any better than what we have today, then you must have some strongly rose-tinted spectacles on.

There's a strong argument for banning trade unions IMO, or at least severely limiting their ability to take industrial action.
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Here we go again....nationalisation must mean old rolling stock in grubby stations because that's what we had in the 1970s. There's an unwillingness amoung some people to look beyond the past in order to see the possibilities of the future. Capitalism was on its knees in the 1920s and 30s. Do we hear those same naysayers implore us to do away with capitalism because it failed badly in a major recession? No, of course not. But I do wish they would give over with this nonsense about " we all remember what nationalisation was like."
 
Lost Seasider said:
Bring rail back into public ownership and then every strike really is the government's fault, and if you think the old British Rail was any better than what we have today, then you must have some strongly rose-tinted spectacles on.

There's a strong argument for banning trade unions IMO, or at least severely limiting their ability to take industrial action.
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British Rail was poor from memory but we are now in a different time.
When the line I used was taken from Stagecoach (I think) and managed by the public sector for a few years it improved massively. It has now been franchised off again.
 
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