Relaxed Christmas rules

Levi501 said:
Wonder if the Government are going to take on board what the editors of the BMJ & HSJ have written saying, ‘ We believe the Government are going to blunder into another major error that will cost many lives, and if they fail to take swift and decisive action, they can no longer claim to be ‘protecting’ the NHS. The ‘5 days of Christmas’ definitely needs to be urgently reviewed.
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That language reads like it was written by Labour HQ.

Also note that BMJ and HSJ have the same editor.
 
As well as Christmas the New Year celebrations are just as likely to see folk flocking together at parties, more so this year with pubs and the main venues out of action.
5 days of Christmas more likely to be best part of 10 days.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
This isn't true in my experience

I know many people who follow government advice very closely regardless of whether it makes sense or not.
I also know some who try to behave reasonably but break the rules from time to time (most of us)
And there are a few I know, mainly young people, who ignore the rules and do as they please

I know that you are the Oracle on all things Covid but it is possible that the whole population of the Uk doesn't neatly fit into one of your two groups.
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Of course there will be exceptions to my Covid Two Camp Rule, there always are... But in the main, I'm absolutely right.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Of course I can be certain... I’m not asking you to be certain, but I am... 100%.

It’s fine...I’ve no problem with you strongly challenging my perspective, I am being forthright, I just don’t see where the personal stuff gets us.
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100% certain that your right ,wow
I don't know what you do in real life but whatever it is your talents are surely wasted.
Who needs governments or scientific experts, we just need to to listen to you.
 
basilrobbie said:
It could be difficult to do it without creating different problems, I suppose. If you've booked a train to visit family I don't think you'd react well to being told you couldn't do it after all.

And it's hardly a free for all if people do as they are being asked. I realise that is a very big "if".
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Refunds on train tickets are readily available
 
Christmas will happen as planned whatever the government say. Too late to change it all now.

New Year’s Eve will be interesting. Nowhere to go obviously, so that’s when the Xmas Libertarians will turn into The NYE Stasi and start curtain twitching and dobbing in the neighbours.
 
Victorsponge said:
Refunds on train tickets are readily available
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I wasn't thinking about the money victor, more the inconvenience. For a start, you're suddenly scrambling around try to buy in festive food you thought was going to be someone else's problem.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
The theory is simple... The Goverment can say whatever they like, but it won't change what people choose to do at Christmas... As far as I'm concerned people sit in one of two camps.

Camp 1 - They will do whatever they want at Christmas and the Government can fuck off

Camp 2 - They are acutely aware of the dangers of Covid and they will be keeping Christmas to a minimum (regadless of Government advice)
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Agree with that. How bad January gets depends on the split.
 
Poolcat1 said:
100% certain that your right ,wow
I don't know what you do in real life but whatever it is your talents are surely wasted.
Who needs governments or scientific experts, we just need to to listen to you.
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I'm not asking you to listen to me... In fact I'd strongly advise against it
 
basilrobbie said:
I wasn't thinking about the money victor, more the inconvenience. For a start, you're suddenly scrambling around try to buy in festive food you thought was going to be someone else's problem.
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I get that mate, but i think I would rather scramble for a Christmas dinner that scrambling for food for a wake (metaphorically speaking, i know we cant have wakes either)
 
Based on what we are hearing from the Gov't this morning it seems the muffled advice is ' You can meet up in a bubble of three households within the legislative framework but don't if you can avoid it '

I really think in the current scenario they need to make their position crystal clear - they seem scared of backtracking over the sacred cow of Xmas when the reality is if that's what they believe is required that's showing real leadership
 
TwelveAngryMen said:
Based on what we are hearing from the Gov't this morning it seems the muffled advice is ' You can meet up in a bubble of three households within the legislative framework but don't if you can avoid it '

I really think in the current scenario they need to make their position crystal clear - they seem scared of backtracking over the sacred cow of Xmas when the reality is if that's what they believe is required that's showing real leadership
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Fuck Me...Talk About Scrooge!

Maybe they could shut down all the Solicitors practices for 2 Months after Christmas to get the R Rate back down... I’d support that 👍
 
The important thing for me is that those who do make sacrifices get to tell everyone else about them and get the opportunity to point the finger in January. This should be sacrosanct.
 
Maybe they could shut down all the Solicitors practices for 2 Months after Christmas to get the R Rate back down... I’d support that 👍

As it happens my ' scrooge like ' approach to this is in part born out of concerns I have for the impact on the economy when we have to deal with the inevitable hangover

Thankfully on a personal level my business isn't likely to be directly affected in the short term ( indirectly in the medium term quite possibly if the economic situation worsens ) however there are plenty that will feel the immediate impact if a further lockdown proves necessary be which should be a cause of great concern to us all even before we look at the knock on impact in virus transmission
 
Victorsponge said:
I get that mate, but i think I would rather scramble for a Christmas dinner that scrambling for food for a wake (metaphorically speaking, i know we cant have wakes either)
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Yep, I understand that, and it is a valid point.

I think this is an issue with no right or wrong answer. How do you balance the perceived health risk against the unquantifiable rise in collective morale that will probably result from families gathering? I don't think you can.

I'm not actually sure what balance of risks the experts have done in reaching the conclusion that this will automatically lead to harm. Yes, people will travel more during the period. Yes, there will be groups congregating who weren't doing so before. So far, so bad.

On the other hand, once they are in groups people may move around less. A lot of alternative leisure activities won't be available, particularly in Tier 3 areas. That has to skew the calculations a bit.
 
TwelveAngryMen said:
Maybe they could shut down all the Solicitors practices for 2 Months after Christmas to get the R Rate back down... I’d support that 👍

As it happens my ' scrooge like ' approach to this is in part born out of concerns I have for the impact on the economy when we have to deal with the inevitable hangover

Thankfully on a personal level my business isn't likely to be directly affected in the short term ( indirectly in the medium term quite possibly if the economic situation worsens ) however there are plenty that will feel the immediate impact if a further lockdown proves necessary be which should be a cause of great concern to us all even before we look at the knock on impact in virus transmission
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I think it’s borne out of privilege to be honest...

When you’re enjoying you’re Christmas week with all your family. Spare a thought for my son.. Sat on his own (he’s had his Christmas dinner and so should be grateful) he can spend the remainder of his Christmas in isolation...

Yet.. he poses no more or no less risk than any of your individual family members...

Maybe you might consider sending all your kids into isolation for Christmas so the rest of us could have a turn?
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I think it’s borne out of privilege to be honest...

When you’re enjoying you’re Christmas week with all your family. Spare a thought for my son.. Sat on his own (he’s had his Christmas dinner and so should be grateful) he can spend the remainder of his Christmas in isolation...

Yet.. he poses no more or no less risk than any of your individual family members...

Maybe you might consider sending all your kids into isolation for Christmas so the rest of us could have a turn?
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Slightly unfair that

I accept I am slightly unusual in having all my children still living at home but that doesn't dictate my thoughts on this despite your repeated attempts to suggest otherwise

I have already stated that I am not meeting up with my parents who live ' a stone's throw away ' - who are doing exactly that Spending Xmas on their own

Neither have I suggested there should be no interaction between households - have simply stated that a ' five day pass ' between three households of unlimited numbers is inappropriate which you know as you asked me what I'd do on another thread and I told you
 
TwelveAngryMen said:
Slightly unfair that

I accept I am slightly unusual in having all my children still living at home but that doesn't dictate my thoughts on this despite your repeated attempts to suggest otherwise

I have already stated that I am not meeting up with my parents who live ' a stone's throw away ' - who are doing exactly that Spending Xmas on their own

Neither have I suggested there should be no interaction between households - have simply stated that a ' five day pass ' between three households of unlimited numbers is inappropriate which you know as you asked me what I'd do on another thread and I told you
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Slightly unfair you say... really😀

As I say, I think your perspective on this is entirely coloured by your privileged perosonal position. It's very easy for you to seek to place additional limitations on Christmas, because essentially they don't affect you at all. I get it, that you are unable to have your parents around, but to be frank a) they have each other and b) they are in an obvious at risk category and to that extent that's a matter of self interest in any case. I'm also sure the fact that they are "A stones throw away" has also enabled you to have limited contact and the security that you are there should they need you.

This morning you accuse the Government of "Back Tracking" yet their advice has been consistent and clear. The information on the .gov website dating back to 3rd December advises that families should consider alternatives (such as Skype etc..) and reflect on the risks. There's a fine line between providing sensible advice and pushing the negatives and essentially putting the mockers on the whole thing.

They've made a decision regarding Christmas... Yes, the doom and gloom scientists (as ever) want to try and steel the limelight and put a dampner on everything... Chris Whitty is like the ** Grim Reaper, but the balance is just about right. It's not the time of year for leaving people isolated and alone where possible, whether that be for five days or two.

Frankly, I think the chance to recharge out batteries from the whole Covid Fatigue for a few days, will actually serve to improve the situation in the long term. The alternative, as I see it, would be a major breakdown in compliance, leading to significantly more death and economic damage...

Further Covid Guidelines
 
Again you keep trying to make this personal when there is no need - quoting my motives and my family circumstances as if they are fact ( when actually they aren't )

I have never suggested that there shouldn't be family interaction over the Xmas period only stated that I think the initial parameters needed to be reviewed and whatever you say there is a marked change in stance - for a very good reason

I am leaving this thread as I am finding the personal attacks rather baffling but crack on if it suits
 
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I'm not trying to make anything personal at all...... Though if we wind back a few months, you were on here complaining because you'd got fed up of walking your dog locally and had decided to break the rules and go walking elsewhere instead. I'm good with that by the way, but it's certainly one example of where you will pick and choose the rules to impose or rules to break to suit your own circumstances.

In regard to the Christmas situation, I'm merely highlighting the fact that you are remarkably privileged, given your circumstances and to that extent, you can hardly view the situation from the perspective of those less fortunate. Whether you will acknowledge it or not, I strongly suspect that you;d have a much different perspective if the shoe were on the other foot and (as above) your past form seems to suggest im probably right.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I'm not trying to make anything personal at all...... Though if we wind back a few months, you were on here complaining because you'd got fed up of walking your dog locally and had decided to break the rules and go walking elsewhere instead. I'm good with that by the way, but it's certainly one example of where you will pick and choose the rules to impose or rules to break to suit your own circumstances.

In regard to the Christmas situation, I'm merely highlighting the fact that you are remarkably privileged, given your circumstances and to that extent, you can hardly view the situation from the perspective of those less fortunate. Whether you will acknowledge it or not, I strongly suspect that you;d have a much different perspective if the shoe were on the other foot and (as above) your past form seems to suggest im probably right.
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I think this and a number of your earlier posts are badly judged, Biff. I haven't agreed with a LOT of what TAM has said in recent times on these topics, but you can argue a general point without making it as personal as you have. I doubt you know very much about any family situation other than your own, so being judgemental about how other people see it is never likely to be persuasive. As I said earlier, I don't think there is a definitive "right" answer to the question of how people should approach this next couple of weeks.
 
basilrobbie said:
I think this and a number of your earlier posts are badly judged, Biff. I haven't agreed with a LOT of what TAM has said in recent times on these topics, but you can argue a general point without making it as personal as you have. I doubt you know very much about any family situation other than your own, so being judgemental about how other people see it is never likely to be persuasive. As I said earlier, I don't think there is a definitive "right" answer to the question of how people should approach this next couple of weeks.
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Jeez....The reinforcements have arrived.... You do get very protective over TAM Robbie...Is there something you're not telling us?

I'm not getting personal (certainly not in the way that you are implying) or at least not intentionally so...I'm giving him a bit of a ribbing that's all...Let's call it payback for ribbing me about my mode of transport, during the fracking protests... So I'm maybe highlighting a small amount of hypocrisy.

In terms of reference to family circumstances, I haven't mentioned anything that TAM hasn't mentioned on this forum or in this post. I have simply used personal examples in order to try and highlight how TAM might just feel differently if the shoe were on the other foot.

He does have a unique way of making people feel sorry for him though... Even I feel guilty now, despite the fact he'll be swigging expensive wine and carving his chateaubriand surrounded by his Tammites, whilst I'm dining on my economy tesco chicken and vimto, whilst skyping my nearest and dearest this Christmas.
 
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FFS!! I know and really like both Tam & Daz, I know Daz can e a real rascal when he sets his mind to it and a huge amount of salt needs to be taken with a lot of his stuff on here. My personal opinion is that people should have enough common sense to do the right thing. Of course, there are going to be plenty who don't give a fuck and will do whatever they want.

I think it is inevitable that post Christmas the rate is going to surge to its worst for some time and we can then see who was right or wrong.

Anyway, back to TAM & Daz, put your arms around each other (virtually) and kiss and make up, it's CHRISTMAS!!!
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
He does have a unique way of making people feel sorry for him though... Even I feel guilty now, despite the fact he'll be swigging expensive wine and carving his chateaubriand surrounded by his Tammites, whilst I'm dining on my economy tesco chicken and vimto, whilst skyping my nearest and dearest this Christmas.
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Thanks for that Daz, the most I have laughed in ages!! 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Jeez....The reinforcements have arrived.... You do get very protective over TAM Robbie...Is there something you're not telling us?

I'm not getting personal (certainly not in the way that you are implying) or at least not intentionally so...I'm giving him a bit of a ribbing that's all...Let's call it payback for ribbing me about my mode of transport, during the fracking protests... So I'm maybe highlighting a small amount of hypocrisy.

In terms of reference to family circumstances, I haven't mentioned anything that TAM hasn't mentioned on this forum or in this post. I have simply used personal examples in order to try and highlight how TAM might just feel differently if the shoe were on the other foot.

He does have a unique way of making people feel sorry for him though... Even I feel guilty now, despite the fact he'll be swigging expensive wine and carving his chateaubriand surrounded by his Tammites, whilst I'm dining on my economy tesco chicken and vimto, whilst skyping my nearest and dearest this Christmas.
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You disappoint me. I thought you would be eating nut cutlets by candlelight in a tent, while singing "We shall overcome". 😀

I think TAM would be mortified if he thought I was trying to protect him. I wouldn't try it, and he wouldn't allow a well-known target to come that close to him anyway......
 
basilrobbie said:
You disappoint me. I thought you would be eating nut cutlets by candlelight in a tent, while singing "We shall overcome". 😀

I think TAM would be mortified if he thought I was trying to protect him. I wouldn't try it, and he wouldn't allow a well-known target to come that close to him anyway......
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That was last year..

I'm progressing slowly towards the Middle Classes this year... In fact, I have even started having the occasional dinner at teatime.

On a serious note though, and you'll perhaps appreciate this given the whole North vs South nonsense, it is real easy to continuously poke holes in Government Policy from the comfort of your armchair (or in TAM's case his Chaise Lounge) and without much insight into the complete facts (esentially the Government or London just becomes a convenient target for our angst). It's important to remember they are trying to balance the needs, wishes, wants of everyone and to also try and keep a certain sense of order and compliance (I think it's very easy to underestimate how public support can flip on a knife edge and potentially descend into chaos if you get the balance wrong). There's an argument to say thatthe current generation have never really known hardship and reference more difficult times etc.. however, many people are currently under considerable stress and that can soon spill over if the Goverment press the wrong buttons... For me, they aren't going over-board with regard to Christmas and they are trying to give people a well justified break, before we are essenitially back at it (most likely until Spring)..

There's a few things, which TAM has referenced, which highlight that he's perhaps looking at this largely from a personal perspective...In particular the idea that these 'Christmas Bubbles' are unlimited numbers and very likely to be above 10 etc.. I get that you might think that way if you have a large family, but that isn't the case for significant numbers of people...Around 30% of UK Households are people living alone, with around 65% being two people or less. These are individuals who haven't had their families around them, may have had little or no contact with the people they love etc...So it's important that Government focus on them too and simply make some allowances that some of us simply take for granted...

Of course, we all have a responsibility to do the right thing, to take care, to limit our asscociations etc..but we also have a duty of care to ourselves and our own personal well being and I don't think a short period where we are setting our own priorities and making personally motivated decisions is such a bad thing.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
That was last year..

I'm progressing slowly towards the Middle Classes this year... In fact, I have even started having the occasional dinner at teatime.

On a serious note though, and you'll perhaps appreciate this given the whole North vs South nonsense, it is real easy to continuously poke holes in Government Policy from the comfort of your armchair (or in TAM's case his Chaise Lounge) and without much insight into the complete facts (esentially the Government or London just becomes a convenient target for our angst). It's important to remember they are trying to balance the needs, wishes, wants of everyone and to also try and keep a certain sense of order and compliance (I think it's very easy to underestimate how public support can flip on a knife edge and potentially descend into chaos if you get the balance wrong). There's an argument to say thatthe current generation have never really known hardship and reference more difficult times etc.. however, many people are currently under considerable stress and that can soon spill over if the Goverment press the wrong buttons... For me, they aren't going over-board with regard to Christmas and they are trying to give people a well justified break, before we are essenitially back at it (most likely until Spring)..

There's a few things, which TAM has referenced, which highlight that he's perhaps looking at this largely from a personal perspective...In particular the idea that these 'Christmas Bubbles' are unlimited numbers and very likely to be above 10 etc.. I get that you might think that way if you have a large family, but that isn't the case for significant numbers of people...Around 30% of UK Households are people living alone, with around 65% being two people or less. These are individuals who haven't had their families around them, may have had little or no contact with the people they love etc...So it's important that Government focus on them too and simply make some allowances that some of us simply take for granted...

Of course, we all have a responsibility to do the right thing, to take care, to limit our asscociations etc..but we also have a duty of care to ourselves and our own personal well being and I don't think a short period where we are setting our own priorities and making personally motivated decisions is such a bad thing.
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You want to watch that drift towards middle class status. With me it started with eating courgettes ; before I knew it I was eating more than one kind of cheese, reading non-fiction and was besotted with BBC4. It's a slippery slope.

I agree with a lot of what you say about looking for convenient targets, and currently London seems to be top of everyone's list. Never mind that these things are cyclical ; never mind that people in London are trying just as hard (or not) as anyone else ; people seem to want to lash out at others because it offers momentary respite from feeling miserable about where we are.

This forum is a microcosm of all that, isn't it? It's always been feisty, but it has got a lot more toxic this year. Some of that is down to WUMS, of course - this wouldn't be AVFTT without them. But I'm more aware of the unpleasant parochialism of some, the mental oddity of others, the obsessiveness of yet more. I doubt I'd be paying such close attention if I could go out for a long walk every day without wondering whether the risk to my health was worth it (probably not, I've decided).

Anyway, this is all just about on topic because societal claustrophobia has a hidden cost, and if a brief respite over Christmas relieves it, some people will think it is worth whatever cost we pay in the New Year. I think the Government are probably hoping that any third spike in January will be at least somewhat offset by a surge in vaccination of the more vulnerable. It's a dangerous and difficult calculation ; but given how much of what we have previously taken for granted has been royally fucked this year, I can't find it in my heart to blame them for trying to salvage some kind of family Christmas.
 
TangerineBayern said:
Whether the rules are changed or not people are going to do whatever they please I’m afraid, equally a lot of people will make their own judgement calls and apply common sense.
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Yes. Some people will do whatever they like even if the rules were changed - but some will then decide to follow the "new rules"...the more people who avoid the Xmas family indoor socialising, the less deaths from January to March from covid.
 
Basically Bozo has bottled it again. He doesn’t want to cancel Christmas since the Sun would have his face superimposed on Scrooge on the front page. But he cannot ignore what his scientists are saying... that this is getting bad again, especially around London... so caution is advised.

So he has handed the decision to us saying “I am not doing another U-turn and changing the Christmas rules again, so it’s your decision on how many you meet up with... it’s up to you whether you kill Granny or not”.

Bozo really is a gutless avoider of responsibility.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Slightly unfair you say... really😀

As I say, I think your perspective on this is entirely coloured by your privileged perosonal position. It's very easy for you to seek to place additional limitations on Christmas, because essentially they don't affect you at all. I get it, that you are unable to have your parents around, but to be frank a) they have each other and b) they are in an obvious at risk category and to that extent that's a matter of self interest in any case. I'm also sure the fact that they are "A stones throw away" has also enabled you to have limited contact and the security that you are there should they need you.

This morning you accuse the Government of "Back Tracking" yet their advice has been consistent and clear. The information on the .gov website dating back to 3rd December advises that families should consider alternatives (such as Skype etc..) and reflect on the risks. There's a fine line between providing sensible advice and pushing the negatives and essentially putting the mockers on the whole thing.

They've made a decision regarding Christmas... Yes, the doom and gloom scientists (as ever) want to try and steel the limelight and put a dampner on everything... Chris Whitty is like the ** Grim Reaper, but the balance is just about right. It's not the time of year for leaving people isolated and alone where possible, whether that be for five days or two.

Frankly, I think the chance to recharge out batteries from the whole Covid Fatigue for a few days, will actually serve to improve the situation in the long term. The alternative, as I see it, would be a major breakdown in compliance, leading to significantly more death and economic damage...

Further Covid Guidelines
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Just to put a different perspective on it, we'll be having a Christmas with the three of us, not meeting up with my other daughters or my Dad who's 90. Why risk it, when theres every chance that the most vulnerable of us would have had a vaccine in the next couple of weeks? Christmas can wait. It's an arbitrary date. A full family celebration can wait until we're all comfortable with the risk.
 
Wizaard said:
Just to put a different perspective on it, we'll be having a Christmas with the three of us, not meeting up with my other daughters or my Dad who's 90. Why risk it, when theres every chance that the most vulnerable of us would have had a vaccine in the next couple of weeks? Christmas can wait. It's an arbitrary date. A full family celebration can wait until we're all comfortable with the risk.
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I'm not suggesting that family gatherings should be compulsory and it sounds to me like you are making choices that suit your circumstances. I'm sure that the overwhelming majority of people will also be making well considered decisions about their Christmas celebrations, after all we're all grown ups.

I certainly won't be leaving one of my kids sat at home on their own throughout Christmas though.... And I'm comfortable with the risk.
 
If there’s one constant theme on this thread it’s “we’re aware of the risks and are going to do what we think is right for us, given our individual circumstances”.

And given that it’s impossible to have a government rule that can cater for every situation, I think that’s probably right.

People will probably die as a result. But then they probably died as a result of Eat out to Help Out. And have certainly died as a result of going to the shops, hairdresser, gym, work etc.

That’s a risk we take every time we close the front door behind us (both leaving the house and walking in).
 
BlackpoolWolves said:
Yes. Some people will do whatever they like even if the rules were changed - but some will then decide to follow the "new rules"...the more people who avoid the Xmas family indoor socialising, the less deaths from January to March from covid.
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Hope the vast majority will apply common sense BW. l had to laugh yesterday when watching GMB when a SAGE member suggested that the 5 day Christmas relaxation should be cancelled and that 2/3 extra bank holidays be given in 2021 in lieu of Christmas!
 
My bet is we’ll still be in tier 3 tomorrow. Blackpool Viv Director says cases, hospital admissions and deaths have all increased slightly, and yesterday’s national figures are horrific; over 25000 new cases and 612 deaths. That’s a big increase and it doesn’t surprise me, you only have to walk into a supermarket to see the problem, generally pretty packed, no one way systems being observed and social distancing is a thing of the distant past.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
If there’s one constant theme on this thread it’s “we’re aware of the risks and are going to do what we think is right for us, given our individual circumstances”.

And given that it’s impossible to have a government rule that can cater for every situation, I think that’s probably right.

People will probably die as a result. But then they probably died as a result of Eat out to Help Out. And have certainly died as a result of going to the shops, hairdresser, gym, work etc.

That’s a risk we take every time we close the front door behind us (both leaving the house and walking in).
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You’re right Mex it’s about the level of risk there is in all instances, but l think there will be a few cases whereby Grandad Sid might be sat round the Xmas table this year but might not next year so is that a risk worth taking?🤔
 
Mexboroseasider said:
If there’s one constant theme on this thread it’s “we’re aware of the risks and are going to do what we think is right for us, given our individual circumstances”.

And given that it’s impossible to have a government rule that can cater for every situation, I think that’s probably right.

People will probably die as a result. But then they probably died as a result of Eat out to Help Out. And have certainly died as a result of going to the shops, hairdresser, gym, work etc.

That’s a risk we take every time we close the front door behind us (both leaving the house and walking in).
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Some good points there Mex...

I tried to allude to this with a couple of examples earlier in the thread, but if you were to suggest to many people on this thread (who are critical of Christmas contact) that they should stop attending their place of work or limit their grocery shopping to once a fortnight or maybe stop going on public transport and walk instead, then they'd probably look at you like you'd slapped them in the face with a wet fish. However all of these individual acts contribute to the transmission of the virus, all cause increased case numbers and inevitably increased death....

I have absolutely no problem with that, of course, as I appreciate that those things are important priorities for those people, but my priorities are different.
TangerineBayern said:
You’re right Mex it’s about the level of risk there is in all instances, but l think there will be a few cases whereby Grandad Sid might be sat round the Xmas table this year but might not next year so is that a risk worth taking?🤔
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There might, but then there will also be many cases where Grandad Sid spends his last Christmas at home on his own avoiding Covid and then dies of other causes before next year. Many of those families will possibly question whether living everfy day as if it is your last might have been a better policy.

Different people will have a completely different perspective on that and that is their right.
 
TangerineBayern said:
You’re right Mex it’s about the level of risk there is in all instances, but l think there will be a few cases whereby Grandad Sid might be sat round the Xmas table this year but might not next year so is that a risk worth taking?🤔
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Equally there might be a situation where it’s decided because of the risk Grandad SId might as well wait until next year. It’s only Christmas after all.

But sadly Grandad Sid passes away next year due to non Covid issues.

And the family misses out on its last Christmas with Grandad Sid because of too much caution.

With older relatives I’m coming round to the “seize the day” philosophy.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I'm not suggesting that family gatherings should be compulsory and it sounds to me like you are making choices that suit your circumstances. I'm sure that the overwhelming majority of people will also be making well considered decisions about their Christmas celebrations, after all we're all grown ups.

I certainly won't be leaving one of my kids sat at home on their own throughout Christmas though.... And I'm comfortable with the risk.
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That's fair enough and meets the rules.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Some good points there Mex...

I tried to allude to this with a couple of examples earlier in the thread, but if you were to suggest to many people on this thread (who are critical of Christmas contact) that they should stop attending their place of work or limit their grocery shopping to once a fortnight or maybe stop going on public transport and walk instead, then they'd probably look at you like you'd slapped them in the face with a wet fish. However all of these individual acts contribute to the transmission of the virus, all cause increased case numbers and inevitably increased death....

I have absolutely no problem with that, of course, as I appreciate that those things are important priorities for those people, but my priorities are different.


There might, but then there will also be many cases where Grandad Sid spends his last Christmas at home on his own avoiding Covid and then dies of other causes before next year. Many of those families will possibly question whether living everfy day as if it is your last might have been a better policy.

Different people will have a completely different perspective on that and that is their right.
Click to expand...
I see we’ve had the same thought about Grandad Sid.
 
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