Reputation or form?

CleveleysPete

CleveleysPete

Well-known member
The saying goes that form is temporary but class is permanent.
In a tournament where England have somewhere between one and four more matches to play which would you go with?
Kane, who has hardly had a touch in three games or somebody like Calvert-Lewin who has momentum from his best season?
 
Matesrates said:
Just posted the same on the Saka thread, I’d drop him.
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you make a case for dropping him based on the fact he's only had one shot on target. Tell me what sort of service he's had, what creativity have we shown in pretty much three games to give him a chance to do better what he does than any other England striker? And thar's score goals. Some people need to see the bigger picrure rather than focus on one part of it.
Were you dropping Jerry Yates when he wasn't a goal threat for the first ten games of the season or did you look for reasons why he didn't.

*fire started.
 
20togo said:
you make a case for dropping him based on the fact he's only had one shot on target. Tell me what sort of service he's had, what creativity have we shown in pretty much three games to give him a chance to do better what he does than any other England striker? And thar's score goals. Some people need to see the bigger picrure rather than focus on one part of it.
Were you dropping Jerry Yates when he wasn't a goal threat for the first ten games of the season or did you look for reasons why he didn't.

*fire started.
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No fire, just debate, for me, he’s not right at the moment and this is a crucial time in a major competition, not the beginning of a long season. Surely in vital games, you play the players in form.
 
Matesrates said:
No fire, just debate, for me, he’s not right at the moment and this is a crucial time in a major competition, not the beginning of a long season. Surely in vital games, you play the players in form.
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Harry Kane is our best player, he's our only world class player. You wouldn't drop Messi or Ronaldo if they had two or three poor performances and hadn't scored would you? i tend to listen to the experts,ie former players on this and pretty much to a man they all still pick Kane. Form is temporary, class is permanent. And again, I asked you but you didn't answer, what sort of service as he had? Where are we creating chances or room in and around the box for him to do what he does better than any other striker. And that's score goals. And going back to Yates, towards the end of the season, he also went a few games without scoring. And who are these players in form who could replace him? Go and look at DCL and he's done very little form wise recently. Rashford, nah he aint either. Watkins not in the squad but go and compare his two halves of last season.
And yep, it's a crucial time in the comp, but don't you think it's Southgate that has to step up, he has to let his creative players go out and play. You convinced that's happening? And that is what Kane needs to help him.
 
20togo said:
Harry Kane is our best player, he's our only world class player. You wouldn't drop Messi or Ronaldo if they had two or three poor performances and hadn't scored would you? i tend to listen to the experts,ie former players on this and pretty much to a man they all still pick Kane. Form is temporary, class is permanent. And again, I asked you but you didn't answer, what sort of service as he had? Where are we creating chances or room in and around the box for him to do what he does better than any other striker. And that's score goals. And going back to Yates, towards the end of the season, he also went a few games without scoring. And who are these players in form who could replace him? Go and look at DCL and he's done very little form wise recently. Rashford, nah he aint either. Watkins not in the squad but go and compare his two halves of last season.
And yep, it's a crucial time in the comp, but don't you think it's Southgate that has to step up, he has to let his creative players go out and play. You convinced that's happening? And that is what Kane needs to help him.
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I agree totally with your last paragraph, but everyone was lauding Mason Mount who was creating exactly those incisive passes. Saka and Grealish, both creative players were on the pitch yesterday, but Harry Kane wasn’t where he should be, namely in the box. I don’t know why he’s mainly around the centre line, whether it’s his choice or Southgates instructions, but that’s what he’s doing.
 
We don't have an in form striker. So you drop him and you have no one to replace him.

Gareth should have begged Jamie Vardy to re-consider to give us something different. You don't drop your best player in knockout football, it's not even a debate either.
 
20togo said:
Harry Kane is our best player, he's our only world class player. You wouldn't drop Messi or Ronaldo if they had two or three poor performances and hadn't scored would you? i tend to listen to the experts,ie former players on this and pretty much to a man they all still pick Kane. Form is temporary, class is permanent. And again, I asked you but you didn't answer, what sort of service as he had? Where are we creating chances or room in and around the box for him to do what he does better than any other striker. And that's score goals. And going back to Yates, towards the end of the season, he also went a few games without scoring. And who are these players in form who could replace him? Go and look at DCL and he's done very little form wise recently. Rashford, nah he aint either. Watkins not in the squad but go and compare his two halves of last season.
And yep, it's a crucial time in the comp, but don't you think it's Southgate that has to step up, he has to let his creative players go out and play. You convinced that's happening? And that is what Kane needs to help him.
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It's not an argument really or something to have an opinion on.

Only England fans debate whether the one of the top two strikers in the world should be dropped at a major tournie.
 
20togo said:
you make a case for dropping him based on the fact he's only had one shot on target. Tell me what sort of service he's had, what creativity have we shown in pretty much three games to give him a chance to do better what he does than any other England striker? And thar's score goals. Some people need to see the bigger picrure rather than focus on one part of it.
Were you dropping Jerry Yates when he wasn't a goal threat for the first ten games of the season or did you look for reasons why he didn't.

*fire started.
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Some on here were dropping JY and sacking NC in October just goes to show what shite people spout on here. Kane is the first name on the England team sheet for me and who would replace him, we’re hardly blessed with quality replacements? l remember Paulo Rossi in the 82 WC being garbage in the group stages and then turned on the style in the knockouts and we know how that ended!
 
Matesrates said:
I agree totally with your last paragraph, but everyone was lauding Mason Mount who was creating exactly those incisive passes. Saka and Grealish, both creative players were on the pitch yesterday, but Harry Kane wasn’t where he should be, namely in the box. I don’t know why he’s mainly around the centre line, whether it’s his choice or Southgates instructions, but that’s what he’s doing.
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Kane was in the box and laid the ball off to Grealish to cross for Sterling to score. Kane on the end of Maguires pass and he brought a good save out of keeper. But again, we didn't get too many balls into the box the whole game did we? Can't recall any crosses coming into the box that you'd hope a centre forward would be on the end of. First half he did ok with his link up play with the likes of Saka and Grealish but second half we reverted to being cautious. To be fair, I think Southgate left him on the pitch in the hope he'd get a goal but the way the whole team played second half he could easily have been subbed.
 
I think Kane is vastly over-rated, to be honest. He's a very good player, but I see no evidence to support this assertion that he is "world class" or "England's best player". If he was that good I doubt he'd be cooling his heels at a bang average mid table EPL club.

To be fair to him I think it is probably his leadership qualities that help him keep his place, cos it certainly ain't the way he's playing. I also think he has been rushed back from injury and isn't physically able to do what he wants to. When you have fit, in-form strikers like Calvert-Lewin available, picking him looks like loyalty taken too far.
 
coppiceman said:
I think Kane is vastly over-rated, to be honest. He's a very good player, but I see no evidence to support this assertion that he is "world class" or "England's best player". If he was that good I doubt he'd be cooling his heels at a bang average mid table EPL club.

To be fair to him I think it is probably his leadership qualities that help him keep his place, cos it certainly ain't the way he's playing. I also think he has been rushed back from injury and isn't physically able to do what he wants to. When you have fit, in-form strikers like Calvert-Lewin available, picking him looks like loyalty taken too far
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look I know you deliberately post crap because that's what you do rec...oops. I think you'll find he's looking to move clubs and is valued at over 100m so again you are just being a dick. No other player will move for that amount of money so yep, you're talking rubbish. DCL aint in form either. And the evidence is in his stats, .
 
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20togo said:
look I know you deliberately post crap because that's what you do rec...oops. I think you'll find he's looking to move clubs and is valued at over 100m so again you are just being a dick. No other player will move for that amount of money so yep, you're talking rubbish. DCL aint in form either.
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If you stop being childish for a minute, I made some serious points which you have ignored.

We all know you love him because he's a Spurs player, and that's fine. But try to be objective. Lots of people have concerns about his fitness and form and the truth is that in three games against very ordinary opposition we have struggled to make chances or score goals. And he is part of that, as is Sterling (who is getting a far easier ride than he deserves because everyone is focusing on HK). Do you seriously think that the fact he is looking for a move counts for anything, or the really big number you just picked out at random means anything to anyone but you?
 
20togo said:
Harry Kane is our best player, he's our only world class player. You wouldn't drop Messi or Ronaldo if they had two or three poor performances and hadn't scored would you? i tend to listen to the experts,ie former players on this and pretty much to a man they all still pick Kane. Form is temporary, class is permanent. And again, I asked you but you didn't answer, what sort of service as he had? Where are we creating chances or room in and around the box for him to do what he does better than any other striker. And that's score goals. And going back to Yates, towards the end of the season, he also went a few games without scoring. And who are these players in form who could replace him? Go and look at DCL and he's done very little form wise recently. Rashford, nah he aint either. Watkins not in the squad but go and compare his two halves of last season.
And yep, it's a crucial time in the comp, but don't you think it's Southgate that has to step up, he has to let his creative players go out and play. You convinced that's happening? And that is what Kane needs to help him.
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As I pointed out the other day, DCL has exactly the same record as Kane at the end of the season, so you're wrong on the 'very little form'. Just because you say it, doesn't make it so. He looked far more lively in the pre tournament games than Kane and would have scored if Henderson hadn't taken the ball off him 😉 Kane hasn't been right since he injured his ankle with about six games to go and missed a couple of games.
 
coppiceman said:
If you stop being childish for a minute, I made some serious points which you have ignored.

We all know you love him because he's a Spurs player, and that's fine. But try to be objective. Lots of people have concerns about his fitness and form and the truth is that in three games against very ordinary opposition we have struggled to make chances or score goals. And he is part of that, as is Sterling (who is getting a far easier ride than he deserves because everyone is focusing on HK). Do you seriously think that the fact he is looking for a move counts for anything, or the really big number you just picked out at random means anything to anyone but you?
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You are the childish one. I know you're nothing more than a WUM, you always have been. But I don't mind continually putting you right. It's rather a pleasure.
Check things out re numbers. Covered every point you make too..
 
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Harry Kane’s been double man marked in every game so far. Let that continue and let the other 10 men do their bit and beat the oppositions 9. Kane’s brilliant. It’s not his fault his team mates are comparatively poor and can’t pick out a decent pass
 
Wizaard said:
As I pointed out the other day, DCL has exactly the same record as Kane at the end of the season, so you're wrong on the 'very little form'. Just because you say it, doesn't make it so. He looked far more lively in the pre tournament games than Kane and would have scored if Henderson hadn't taken the ball off him 😉 Kane hasn't been right since he injured his ankle with about six games to go and missed a couple of games.
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Twist and turn but you are still talking crap. I didn't say Kane was in form did I? i said DCL wasn't and he isn't. He too did nothing in the pre-tournament games either, so you're making things up.

Form is temporary and class is permanent. Go and ask the experts such as former players. They pretty much all stick with Kane, They know the situation, whereas you clearly don't.
 
Dropping looking for the ball isn't helping his goal scoring chances, it's also pushing whole team backwards, Southgate needs to tell him to hold a line and let the more creative players get on with it, so many times he's been behind the ball when we're attacking.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
Dropping looking for the ball isn't helping his goal scoring chances, it's also pushing whole team backwards, Southgate needs to tell him to hold a line and let the more creative players get on with it, so many times he's been behind the ball when we're attacking.
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He certainly did it once last night first half where he was pretty much level with our back four and that was certainly too deep but the general point of him dropping a bit deeper can be good thing if he drags a centre half out of position and either he himself or another player can find that player[usually out wide] running beyond him and the last line of the opposition defence. It can work but at Spurs i'd suggest it's been worked on a fair bit whereas not so at England. It is an issue for sure.
 
SSN is great to watch. All these former players giving their opinions on England. All sticking by Kane. Think a few of you need to up your game. Neville just summed up England very well.
 
20togo said:
Twist and turn but you are still talking crap. I didn't say Kane was in form did I? i said DCL wasn't and he isn't. He too did nothing in the pre-tournament games either, so you're making things up.

Form is temporary and class is permanent. Go and ask the experts such as former players. They pretty much all stick with Kane, They know the situation, whereas you clearly don't.
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Every thread I read about the ex players as pundits says they're all useless.🤣

If you're basing your opinions on SSN it's time to pack in
 
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