Scottish Independence

T

TSSeasider

Well-known member
Here we go again!

Will the SNP be labelled flag shaggers?
How many times will BoJo get mentioned?
How much oil is English/Scottish?
SNP record at home comes under more scruitny.
Will Rangers become an international fixture rather than a friendly..

Be fun to see them vote to leave the Union; you can bet your bottom dollar that the EU would fast track them in - and we would have all sorts of fun and games across the northern borders.

Get your Buckie and pop corn ready; it's going to be fantastic!
 
TSSeasider said:
Here we go again!

Will the SNP be labelled flag shaggers?
How many times will BoJo get mentioned?
How much oil is English/Scottish?
SNP record at home comes under more scruitny.
Will Rangers become an international fixture rather than a friendly..

Be fun to see them vote to leave the Union; you can bet your bottom dollar that the EU would fast track them in - and we would have all sorts of fun and games across the northern borders.

Get your Buckie and pop corn ready; it's going to be fantastic!
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One bonus would be that they would have to rebuild Hadrian's Wall at their own cost. Mind you the EU seem to like infrastructure projects.
 
basilexile said:
One bonus would be that they would have to rebuild Hadrian's Wall at their own cost. Mind you the EU seem to like infrastructure projects.
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Think of the traditional skills boost the area would receive.

We could have years of outside broadcasts of the Repair Shop.
 
TSSeasider said:
you can bet your bottom dollar that the EU would fast track them in
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Might not be so simple, Spain would likely veto to avoid setting a precedent, there are presumably other nationalist groups within the EU that would present similar problems, lots of other problems as well.

The EU fast-track seems to be more wishful thinking on the part of the Nats than anything else.
 
Think its inevitable to be honest, better for the scots think they will form strong aliances with the Nordic countries where the probably have more affinity than the english. Ireland unites as well, leaving a United Knigdom of England and Wales. Would expect Welsh independence at some point as well if the others go.

would force England into some fundamental changes to its social politcial and cultural norms.
 
Lost Seasider said:
Might not be so simple, Spain would likely veto to avoid setting a precedent, there are presumably other nationalist groups within the EU that would present similar problems, lots of other problems as well.

The EU fast-track seems to be more wishful thinking on the part of the Nats than anything else.
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They would but both Catalan and Basque independence are i think inevitable in the long run.
 
There is an inevitability about this at some point, it will be derided by the they will be an economic basket case etc...but it’s inevitable I think..the EU exit changed a lot of minds up there.
 
Seasider Sam said:
There is an inevitability about this at some point, it will be derided by the they will be an economic basket case etc...but it’s inevitable I think..the EU exit changed a lot of minds up there.
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The break up of the Union another thing to thank Brexit for. See also Northern Ireland.
 
Scaramanga said:
When did this happen ? I must of missed it.
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The revisit of the independence vote has been prompted by the Brexit outcome.

As for Northern Ireland, they've become a separate trading area with a border in the Irish Sea and we're about to unilaterally ignore international law. Keep up.
 
Wizaard said:
The revisit of the independence vote has been prompted by the Brexit outcome.

As for Northern Ireland, they've become a separate trading area with a border in the Irish Sea and we're about to unilaterally ignore international law. Keep up.
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You implied it had already happened, dont be presumptuous, or are you just desperate for another stick yo beat Boris with.
 
Scaramanga said:
You implied it had already happened, dont be presumptuous, or are you just desperate for another stick yo beat Boris with.
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I did nothing of the sort. I implied it was going the same way.

Boris beats himself with his own stick by ripping up his own oven ready agreement. Turns out it's an ill thought out piece of shite that no one agrees with. Who would have thought it.
 
Lost Seasider said:
Might not be so simple, Spain would likely veto to avoid setting a precedent, there are presumably other nationalist groups within the EU that would present similar problems, lots of other problems as well.

The EU fast-track seems to be more wishful thinking on the part of the Nats than anything else.
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I feel much the same way, would the EU be that enthusiastic bearing in mind the border issue and the problems that could cause.
 
Lost Seasider said:
Might not be so simple, Spain would likely veto to avoid setting a precedent, there are presumably other nationalist groups within the EU that would present similar problems, lots of other problems as well.

The EU fast-track seems to be more wishful thinking on the part of the Nats than anything else.
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And what currency would an independent Scotland be using? Would the EU fast track them in to the Euro despite the fact they don't meet the criteria?
 
RUSTY_2_STANDS said:
And what currency would an independent Scotland be using? Would the EU fast track them in to the Euro despite the fact they don't meet the criteria?
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Even with the animus between the EU and UK, I can’t see the EU saying come on in to Scotland.

The EU gave no encouragement to Catalonia when it called an independence referendum, and encouraging Scotland would simply pave the way for the autonomous regions of Spain to press for independence with the expectation they would be admitted too.

Of course, by 2050, when there is some sort of United or Federated Ireland, the expanded bits of that
country will be admitted straightaway. The EU have said as much.
 
hampshire_exile said:
Even with the animus between the EU and UK, I can’t see the EU saying come on in to Scotland.

The EU gave no encouragement to Catalonia when it called an independence referendum, and encouraging Scotland would simply pave the way for the autonomous regions of Spain to press for independence with the expectation they would be admitted too.

Of course, by 2050, when there is some sort of United or Federated Ireland, the expanded bits of that
country will be admitted straightaway. The EU have said as much.
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They will, just to spite us, and show anyone else thinking of leaving what could happen
 
BigHandsOliverKahn said:
It's a funny old world. Those who pointed out that Brexit would lead to the break up of the UK got labelled traitors by the very people whose actions caused all these UK problems.
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As one who voted for Brexit and would vote the same way again if they were another referendum, I personally wouldn't bat an eyelid at the Scots leaving the Union. Good luck to them if they want to leave one Union and try to join another.
Let's see how they manage on their own and let's see how they manage with a new currency.
And I think you'll find the Scots were hankering for independence way before Brexit came along.
 
Lost Seasider said:
I doubt Brexit made the slightest bit of difference.
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You would be wrong, then. The fundamental case which kept many voters anti Independence was that it was the only way to stay in the EU. The EU had invested far more in Scotland than the UK Government ever did, the Fish Roads being a case in point. The SNP case was so woolly and short of detail, that this carried the day, supported by Cameron's Government. This time round, assuming the Supreme Court does not stop it, their case will be on what a shxt show Westminster has made of the last 6 years. They still probably won't have a proper fiscal plan, but those of us genuinely interested in their proposals will be over ruled by those voting with their heart.

I have to say, if they see the anti Scottish sentiment from down south seen on this board again and again, I'm not sure `I can blame them.

I am still very firmly of the view that the only way to change the North of England is to set up a separate state including Scotland, and cast the SE and London adrift in their own waste. We have far more in common than them down there, decades of under investment, a natural friendliness and sense of community, and a sense of morality.
 
Tangerinemoss said:
You would be wrong, then. The fundamental case which kept many voters anti Independence was that it was the only way to stay in the EU. The EU had invested far more in Scotland than the UK Government ever did, the Fish Roads being a case in point. The SNP case was so woolly and short of detail, that this carried the day, supported by Cameron's Government. This time round, assuming the Supreme Court does not stop it, their case will be on what a shxt show Westminster has made of the last 6 years. They still probably won't have a proper fiscal plan, but those of us genuinely interested in their proposals will be over ruled by those voting with their heart.

I have to say, if they see the anti Scottish sentiment from down south seen on this board again and again, I'm not sure `I can blame them.

I am still very firmly of the view that the only way to change the North of England is to set up a separate state including Scotland, and cast the SE and London adrift in their own waste. We have far more in common than them down there, decades of under investment, a natural friendliness and sense of community, and a sense of morality.
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I hope the Rangers fans remember that when they invade Blackpool.
 
Tangerinemoss said:
You would be wrong, then. The fundamental case which kept many voters anti Independence was that it was the only way to stay in the EU. The EU had invested far more in Scotland than the UK Government ever did, the Fish Roads being a case in point. The SNP case was so woolly and short of detail, that this carried the day, supported by Cameron's Government. This time round, assuming the Supreme Court does not stop it, their case will be on what a shxt show Westminster has made of the last 6 years. They still probably won't have a proper fiscal plan, but those of us genuinely interested in their proposals will be over ruled by those voting with their heart.

I have to say, if they see the anti Scottish sentiment from down south seen on this board again and again, I'm not sure `I can blame them.

I am still very firmly of the view that the only way to change the North of England is to set up a separate state including Scotland, and cast the SE and London adrift in their own waste. We have far more in common than them down there, decades of under investment, a natural friendliness and sense of community, and a sense of morality.
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There’s a revolutionary thought. Where would we draw the line?
 
Seasider Sam said:
Really it be one of the Pillars they will campaign on..64% etc
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"Vote yes for independence, and give us the power to immediately toss it away again".

It's a novel strategy, I'll grant you that, but that 64% is soft, it's 40% - 45% Nats who see it as their gateway to their true goal, and 20% from the other 55% of the electorate who aren't Nats.
 
RUSTY_2_STANDS said:
As one who voted for Brexit and would vote the same way again if they were another referendum, I personally wouldn't bat an eyelid at the Scots leaving the Union. Good luck to them if they want to leave one Union and try to join another.
Let's see how they manage on their own and let's see how they manage with a new currency.
And I think you'll find the Scots were hankering for independence way before Brexit came along.
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Your last sentence is correct but you "forgot" to mention that Brexit was a game changer, or so it seems.
 
Isn’t Scotland struggling much more than England economically?
I am sure there is more tax payers money per capita funnelled there from the English economy to ensure the Union stays in tact?

I’m not sure even after Brexit that Scotland still wants independence?
 
Tangerinemoss said:
You would be wrong, then. The fundamental case which kept many voters anti Independence was that it was the only way to stay in the EU. The EU had invested far more in Scotland than the UK Government ever did, the Fish Roads being a case in point. The SNP case was so woolly and short of detail, that this carried the day, supported by Cameron's Government. This time round, assuming the Supreme Court does not stop it, their case will be on what a shxt show Westminster has made of the last 6 years. They still probably won't have a proper fiscal plan, but those of us genuinely interested in their proposals will be over ruled by those voting with their heart.

I have to say, if they see the anti Scottish sentiment from down south seen on this board again and again, I'm not sure `I can blame them.

I am still very firmly of the view that the only way to change the North of England is to set up a separate state including Scotland, and cast the SE and London adrift in their own waste. We have far more in common than them down there, decades of under investment, a natural friendliness and sense of community, and a sense of morality.
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First 2 paragraphs are spot on.
 
Lost Seasider said:
"Vote yes for independence, and give us the power to immediately toss it away again".

It's a novel strategy, I'll grant you that, but that 64% is soft, it's 40% - 45% Nats who see it as their gateway to their true goal, and 20% from the other 55% of the electorate who aren't Nats.
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Again, what do you base that on?
 
Brazil said:
What do you base that on?
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I don't see any material change in support for independence since the last referendum, we've also had Covid and the current cost of living crisis in the meantime and Boris doesn't play well north of the border at the best of times, how you separate out the effect of Brexit from everything else is beyond me.


Brazil said:
Again, what do you base that on?
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It was the bedrock of the Nats argument for independence, it won't cost us anything because we'll go straight into the EU and nothing will change, a vote in favour of leaving the EU was literally a vote against independence, so you can bet your bottom dollar that 99.9% of Nats voted to remain and everything else is just mathematics.
 
Lost Seasider said:
I don't see any material change in support for independence since the last referendum, we've also had Covid and the current cost of living crisis in the meantime and Boris doesn't play well north of the border at the best of times, how you separate out the effect of Brexit from everything else is beyond me.




It was the bedrock of the Nats argument for independence, it won't cost us anything because we'll go straight into the EU and nothing will change, a vote in favour of leaving the EU was literally a vote against independence, so you can bet your bottom dollar that 99.9% of Nats voted to remain and everything else is just mathematics.
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Any material change in support? What does that mean? If you mean the Scots haven't had a referendum, yes, you're right. If you choose not to include the increase in SNP votes in the recent local elections, you're wrong.
 
Tangerinemoss said:
You would be wrong, then. The fundamental case which kept many voters anti Independence was that it was the only way to stay in the EU. The EU had invested far more in Scotland than the UK Government ever did, the Fish Roads being a case in point. The SNP case was so woolly and short of detail, that this carried the day, supported by Cameron's Government. This time round, assuming the Supreme Court does not stop it, their case will be on what a shxt show Westminster has made of the last 6 years. They still probably won't have a proper fiscal plan, but those of us genuinely interested in their proposals will be over ruled by those voting with their heart.

I have to say, if they see the anti Scottish sentiment from down south seen on this board again and again, I'm not sure `I can blame them.

I am still very firmly of the view that the only way to change the North of England is to set up a separate state including Scotland, and cast the SE and London adrift in their own waste. We have far more in common than them down there, decades of under investment, a natural friendliness and sense of community, and a sense of morality.
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England could be easily broken up into four independent states much better equipped to deal with the modern world.
 
Brazil said:
Any material change in support? What does that mean? If you mean the Scots haven't had a referendum, yes, you're right. If you choose not to include the increase in SNP votes in the recent local elections, you're wrong.
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2% swing in the Scottish Parliamentary elections between 2011 and 2021, how much of that's down to Brexit, who knows?

Local elections? Don't make me laugh.
 
When the Scots see that it is going to cost them money to leave the UK they will
boot Nicola out of office. They will no longer be able to take money from the
UK taxpayer for any shortfall they may have in their national income.
 
As long as when they fuck off they pay back the money they've had because of the pandemic let them go but I won't hold my breath of them ever paying it back.
 
It's going to be interesting to see how we divide up the assets and liabilities on the UK.

I suggest what the pro-rata share of the national debt is?

£2,000,000,000,000 ÷70,000,000 × 5,500,000

= £157,142,857,143 (rounded) is a hell of a figure to deal with without future subsidy from rUK.

Estimated from 2020, it had a $200bn economy, so that's about £180bn and that includes hydrocarbons in Scottish waters.

Not sure how much debt the Scottish government has (if any) - looks doable if it isn't that high.
 
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