Scottish Independence

Recidivist3 said:
Given that the article was written by someone that a fair few on here wouldn’t make welcome in England, perhaps there are lots of questions
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Interestingly enough it is quite stark that nobody on any news, current affairs, weather broadcasts when I was last there etc on tv in Scotland is BAME or any minority group. In contrast to tv in England and Wales…
 
Newholland said:
When you say “vote No” are you referring to the 2014 vote ...if so why would Scotland not either stay or reapply to the EU back then? Sorry for being thick, not really up on this just curious.
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No bother, facts are fairly rare in this discussion :) It was made clear to Sturgeon by the EU, before 2014, that if they left the member UK, they would have to apply to join, with all associated delays (EU works verrrryyyy slowly). Spain also made it clear that they would veto Scotland, due to their own regional issues.

It is really much more complicated than, as usual, the Politicians make out. What Scotland remembers, and I have seen with my own eyes over 55 years of visiting the Highlands, is that EU money spent on Infrastructure totally transformed the area and average wage, quality of housing, etc, etc. Now, that could have been done by Westminster, but they never did. Considering the amount that the North Sea oil fields were pumping into the Exchequer in the 70's to 00's, it was a pretty poor show. I have seen no evidence at all, now energy is providing far less revenue, that there can be any decent fiscal plan for an independent Scotland, possibly until renewables become big enough to export large amounts of electricity.
 
Tangerinemoss said:
No bother, facts are fairly rare in this discussion :) It was made clear to Sturgeon by the EU, before 2014, that if they left the member UK, they would have to apply to join, with all associated delays (EU works verrrryyyy slowly). Spain also made it clear that they would veto Scotland, due to their own regional issues.

It is really much more complicated than, as usual, the Politicians make out. What Scotland remembers, and I have seen with my own eyes over 55 years of visiting the Highlands, is that EU money spent on Infrastructure totally transformed the area and average wage, quality of housing, etc, etc. Now, that could have been done by Westminster, but they never did. Considering the amount that the North Sea oil fields were pumping into the Exchequer in the 70's to 00's, it was a pretty poor show. I have seen no evidence at all, now energy is providing far less revenue, that there can be any decent fiscal plan for an independent Scotland, possibly until renewables become big enough to export large amounts of electricity.
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Appreciate the info... looking from the outside, it seems to me , the people of Scotland are getting a raw deal ..either way.
 
tommytwojags said:
That's what happens when the First Minister has only one objective. She has pretty much ignored the issues mentioned in pursuit of becoming the President of Scotland. Figures last year showed that without Westminster funding every adult and child would have to pay an extra £2k pa just to maintain their current position. Add to that the infrastructure costs necessary for independence, the absence of a currency, the customs border needed, armed forces etc etc and they will have a massive mountain to climb to survive. Do I want Scots to fall for Sturgeon's independence scam? Not at all. The trouble is if they do tick the box there's no going back.
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Surely if they become independent there will be another referendum 8 years later?
 
Threepeaksphil said:
I remember Andrew Neil interviewed first minister Sturgeon and put it to her that if Scotland went independent there would be a massive hole in the country's finances and how would she cover that and she had no answer!! It's such a mad idea and a waste of time as the EU would not accept a new country who could not prove it could manage money wise.
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Economic disadvantage didn't stop Brexit from happening so why would the Scots care about that? Their counter argument would be that they have a huge Single Market to trade with.
 
BigHandsOliverKahn said:
Economic disadvantage didn't stop Brexit from happening so why would the Scots care about that? Their counter argument would be that they have a huge Single Market to trade with.
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As long as they don't mind waiting for all 27 countries to agree the trade deal. It took 7 years for Canada to get a trade deal with the EU. By that time Scotland could be bankrupt.
 
RUSTY_2_STANDS said:
As long as they don't mind waiting for all 27 countries to agree the trade deal. It took 7 years for Canada to get a trade deal with the EU. By that time Scotland could be bankrupt.
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The majority of voters have shown in recent times that they don't really go into the intricate detail of things. They just vote for whatever headline slogans get banded around so it probably wouldn't even be a consideration of theirs that there would be a long-winded process.

There a good balanced article here with lots of links off it about the economic questions but I bet the vast majority of Scots won't go into that kind of detail before making their decision.
 
BigHandsOliverKahn said:
The majority of voters have shown in recent times that they don't really go into the intricate detail of things. They just vote for whatever headline slogans get banded around so it probably wouldn't even be a consideration of theirs that there would be a long-winded process.

There a good balanced article here with lots of links off it about the economic questions but I bet the vast majority of Scots won't go into that kind of detail before making their decision.
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Of course your average man/woman in the street wouldn't look at it in so much detail. But by the time they'd voted to leave the UK and then try to broker a trade deal with the EU, it'd be too late anyway.
When the trade deal negotiations start to take years, perhaps they'll then wish they had looked at things in more detail.
Personally I wouldn't bat an eyelid if Scotland left the UK. Let them go if that's what they want.
 
As a person of mixed ( Scottish and English) I have had debates with Scottish relatives about this
They were tradional Labour voters but many now vote SNP .Genuinely can't see what drives it but suspect sentimental nationalism mixed with a very prevalent anti English feeling might get it over the line.I hope not

They had their once in a generation referendum and the Nats lost ghat should have been it and I wouldn't blame Boris yo stick with that position

Bit like brexit ,I voted and would bote again to remain but for the sake of democracy you have accept the result

I actually think Sturgeon is a piss poor one trick politician. Her record on government and on the economy is rubbish

If they do get there way we need to reinforce economic independence, no subsidies etc

They won't succeed like the Nordic countries and they will not get back in EU for at least 10 years .They will be like a cold Greece in 20 years
 
Recidivist3 said:
Given that the article was written by someone that a fair few on here wouldn’t make welcome in England, perhaps there are lots of questions
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Bisphamtang said:
As a person of mixed ( Scottish and English) I have had debates with Scottish relatives about this
They were tradional Labour voters but many now vote SNP .Genuinely can't see what drives it but suspect sentimental nationalism mixed with a very prevalent anti English feeling might get it over the line.I hope not

They had their once in a generation referendum and the Nats lost ghat should have been it and I wouldn't blame Boris yo stick with that position

Bit like brexit ,I voted and would bote again to remain but for the sake of democracy you have accept the result

I actually think Sturgeon is a piss poor one trick politician. Her record on government and on the economy is rubbish

If they do get there way we need to reinforce economic independence, no subsidies etc

They won't succeed like the Nordic countries and they will not get back in EU for at least 10 years .They will be like a cold Greece in 20 years
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The Scots who were Labour and now vote Nationalist do so because Labour cozied up to the Tories in the Better Together campaign, they call them Red Tories now!! Writing nonsense on what you would impose on Scotland is just silly..the failure was on the part of the Conservative Government to not put in not for a generation in the Edinburgh Agreement.
 
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